The EU Referendum

Okay, I know I made another post identical to this on another forum, but this is an incredibly important issue for not just me, but for the UK - and possibly the world, due to its position in the realm of international politics - so hear me out. also I'm drunk I'm sorry

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So if you're not aware, tomorrow the United Kingdom is voting on whether to remain in or leave the European Union. As a British citizen, this is probably one of the most important political decisions I will have to make for the rest of my life, so it's something that I've taken very seriously.

Personally, I'm voting Remain. Although there's been scaremongering on both sides, I feel as if the risks of leaving the EU are way too great to be worth going it alone, even though the EU is an imperfect system in my eyes.

What are all of your thoughts? If you're in the UK, are you planning on voting Remain or Leave? If you aren't, what do you make of the whole situation?

I want to ask all the Brits reading this thread not to allow nationalism to cloud their judgement and to vote Remain. As imperfect and bureaucratic the EU is, detaching from the largest political and trading bloc in the world in the hopes of "being set free" and left alone in the middle of the ocean is an economic suicide that will only hurt both the UK (which soon might be reduced to Kingdom of England and Wales) and the rest of the continent. If any of you are still undecided, please, go vote and vote Remain.

Well...I've watched most of the debates they've been airing recently - if you can call them that; it's been an absolute shitshow filled with hyperbole and scare-mongering on both sides - and I'm honestly not sure if I'm going to vote to leave or remain just yet. There are valid points on both sides, no real way to predict all the repercussions of leaving or remaining, and still not enough information. It's an issue mired in self-motivated politics and rumour, and honestly I'm glad it's coming to a close. But I still have no idea how I want to vote.

I've got until tonight to decide anyway; I'm going to vote with my parents. I'll give it some more serious thought today.

I just hope that the result, will be "clean".
What I mean, is that in Greece, last year, in Summer we had a Referendum too about this.
61.38% Voted to leave europe, and only 38.69% voted to stay. (Finally most of Greeks woke up about this last year)
Bu,. guess what?!
We stayed.
This IS Democracy!
I hope that the first option in UK will happen.
Vote what you feel is the right thing for you.

Kwstaspaokara said:

I just hope that the result, will be "clean".
What I mean, is that in Greece, last year, in Summer we had a Referendum too about this.
61.38% Voted to leave europe, and only 38.69% voted to stay.
And guess what?!
We stayed.
This IS Democracy!
I hope that the first option will happen.

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I think you didn't understand a single word about what the Referendum was about so I'll just leave this link here and inform you that nobody was voting whether to leave the EU or not, which is an option that was not contemplated anywhere, regardless of what you believed.

Meloetta said:

Well...I've watched most of the debates they've been airing recently - if you can call them that; it's been an absolute ****show filled with hyperbole and scare-mongering on both sides - and I'm honestly not sure if I'm going to vote to leave or remain just yet. There are valid points on both sides, no real way to predict all the repercussions of leaving or remaining, and still not enough information. It's an issue mired in self-motivated politics and rumour, and honestly I'm glad it's coming to a close. But I still have no idea how I want to vote.

I've got until tonight to decide anyway; I'm going to vote with my parents. I'll give it some more serious thought today.

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If you still don't know what to do, the only thing left I can say is: Leave is the option favoured by Boris, Farage, Donald Trump, Marine Le Pen, the Daily Mail, The Sun and the Daily Express. It has to be bad for the world by default.

Ivysaur said:

I think you didn't understand a single word about what the Referendum was about so I'll just leave this link here and inform you that nobody was voting whether to leave the EU or not, which is an option that was not contemplated anywhere, regardless of what you believed.



If you still don't know what to do, the only thing left I can say is: Leave is the option favoured by Boris, Donald Trump, Marine Le Pen, the Daily Mail, The Sun and the Daily Express. It has to be bad for the world by default.

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Stop this,
You just find something in the internet and you think this is right, you know.
Everyone was talking about GRexit which means exit from europe and back to drachmi, no more euros.
The referendum, asked if we should aggree to some kind of plan that europe wanted us to sign, if not, we would exit europe.
I'm from Greece, I know something more than you, also, there were many "corteo" about saying no which in this, everyone was against europe.
Europe is like a prison to us, of course, you don't have a big crisis 6 years like this here, so it's ok.

Meloetta said:

Well...I've watched most of the debates they've been airing recently - if you can call them that; it's been an absolute ****show filled with hyperbole and scare-mongering on both sides - and I'm honestly not sure if I'm going to vote to leave or remain just yet. There are valid points on both sides, no real way to predict all the repercussions of leaving or remaining, and still not enough information. It's an issue mired in self-motivated politics and rumour, and honestly I'm glad it's coming to a close. But I still have no idea how I want to vote.

I've got until tonight to decide anyway; I'm going to vote with my parents. I'll give it some more serious thought today.

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Think it, Voting leave isn't a "bad" thing, if you think you want to vote it, go ahead.
Also, remain isn't a bad think regardless of what I am thinking.
But if I were in England I would vote for exit, for some reasons

Ivysaur said:

If you still don't know what to do, the only thing left I can say is: Leave is the option favoured by Boris, Farage, Donald Trump, Marine Le Pen, the Daily Mail, The Sun and the Daily Express. It has to be bad for the world by default.

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I heard that if the UK does leave the EU it could cause a recession and there's been other stuff going around that it could be bad for not just Europe, but the world.

Kwstaspaokara said:

Stop this,
You just find something in the internet and you think this is right, you know.
Everyone was talking about GRexit which means exit from europe and back to drachmi, no more euros.
The referendum, asked if we should aggree to some kind of plan that europe wanted us to sign, if not, we would exit europe.
I'm from Greece, I know something more than you, also, there were many "corteo" about saying no which in this, everyone was against europe.
Europe is like a prison to us, of course, you don't have a big crisis 6 years like this here, so it's ok.

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Obviously you didn't understand a word. First, stop saying that I have no idea what I'm talking about -you don't seem to comprehend that someone outside of Greece can really have more information on what's going on that you do- or that I just "find links on the internet". At the very least, I seem to understand what was being voted that day, unlike you. The "Grexit" involved only the Eurozone- not the EU. And that wasn't being voted at all. The referendum wasn't about that. In fact, the referendum meant literally nothing as the agreements that were being voted on had expired by the day they were voted! You might have been led to believe that you were voting something else, but that doesn't change reality, and that is that an overwhelming majority -including Tsipras, Draghi and most of the Eurogroup- did not want Greece to leave. But again, this is just derailing the thread.

Hikamaru said:

I heard that if the UK does leave the EU it could cause a recession and there's been other stuff going around that it could be bad for not just Europe, but the world.

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The Bank of England, the International Monetary Fund, the London School of Economics, HM Treasury and George Soros, the guy who sunk the BoE in 1992, all agree that Britain would suffer a recession and their growth would be hampered for years. Leave camp says "don't trust experts" and promise that Britain would become king of the world once freed from the European free trade area and its international trade agreements with other countries because... magic I guess. Believe in Britain!

I'm voting to remain. There are a couple of reasons behind this, but I won't go into them in great detail. I'm on a phone which sucks and typing is like running sand willingly into your eyes. ANYWAY, although the EU has it's faults, so do we and to remove our selves from a network we rely on isn't going to be a great idea. Personally I like the EU , but I have always been one for the greater good of everyone, not this 'it's us versus them' which some leave posters are brandishing. Furthermore, Boris wants it. Now I dislike this blonde bumble-beeXbulldog of human but I have my own reasons that I won't go into again, as it's taken me over 20 mins to write the above... Well no, 10.. The rest was spent watching phantom typing as my phone tried to keep up. However, if he wants to leave that should scream warning bells to everyone.

I also like to add that I really do enjoy the free movement of labour. This is not a weakness but massive benefit to us and coming generations.

Ivysaur said:

Obviously you didn't understand a word. First, stop saying that I have no idea what I'm talking about -you don't seem to comprehend that someone outside of Greece can really have more information on what's going on that you do- or that I just "find links on the internet". At the very least, I seem to understand what was being voted that day, unlike you. The "Grexit" involved only the Eurozone- not the EU. And that wasn't being voted at all. The referendum wasn't about that. In fact, the referendum meant literally nothing as the agreements that were being voted on had expired by the day they were voted! You might have been led to believe that you were voting something else, but that doesn't change reality, and that is that an overwhelming majority -including Tsipras, Draghi and most of the Eurogroup- did not want Greece to leave. But again, this is just derailing the thread.

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I don't want to continue arguing.
I respect your opinion and your believes.
I just.... felt it, saw it(and still I fell it). How desperate Greek people was and still they are of the Europe so many pay and salary cuts, and I think that we suffer the worst crisis in these years.
That's why I, and so many people want to get out of Europe. (For Greece)

I hope "Leave" wins and Brexit happens because it would help other countries to leave the Titanic called EU.

Lipstick Vogue said:

If you vote leave other European PC members might stop talking to you.

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If you vote leave, you show that you love your country and want it to stay independent.

Well, there are a lot of things I don't like about the EU, but I don't see how they justify leaving it outright...and expecting the EU to be a perfect system when it's so young comparatively speaking seems a bit unrealistic, too. I'm generally not optimistic about things getting any better, but one thing I will say is that things definitely won't get better for the EU if we leave it, and if we remain then I doubt things will get any worse. I'm still not absolutely swayed to vote Remain based on this, but at the moment...well, better the Devil you know, right? I can have faith and pride in my country and still want to be a part of something bigger; the two things aren't mutually exclusive...and some would say they even complement one another. So.

Ivysaur said:

If you still don't know what to do, the only thing left I can say is: Leave is the option favoured by Boris, Farage, Donald Trump, Marine Le Pen, the Daily Mail, The Sun and the Daily Express. It has to be bad for the world by default.

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That is one of the primary reasons I'm not giving Leave as much weight as it might otherwise carry: plenty of people I generally dislike and have no respect for - and often find myself at odds with in terms of my personal beliefs - support it. People motivated solely by self-interest, who are generally very poorly spoken (although Boris made very valid points in the live debate even if he came across as scruffy, uneducated arse like he usually does) and often do favour the more destructive option because it lines their pockets. It's...troubling. To say the least.

I think that the argument of "Vote Leave if you love your country" is dangerously chauvinistic and tremendously devoid of content. Is it worth it to risk a recession, loss of power in the world, potential trade wars and the possible breakup of the UK (Scotland and Nothern Ireland will love being kicked of the EU because England says so) because "you love your country very much"? I know there are some logical arguments in the Leave campaign, but when you need to keep bringing up the nationalism over and over, then the situation becomes a bit scary. But I guess it sounds less boring than talking about the risks of having to renegotiate trade agreements.

In some way, I think this has a lot to do with the same emotions fuelling Trump's rise across the pond. Nostalgia of the "good times in the past" when the British Empire ruled the world instead of being one out of 28 when talking about agricultural funds in Brussels; fear of "evil Poles and Turks" acting like Trump's Mexicans, and the belief that the best solution is to shut the rest of the world off as if we still were in 1800. Make Britain Great Again, even if it requires devolving into what the Financial Times is calling "Little England".

I just got back from voting in brexit and voted to leave cause if we do other countries will vote out too.

Kikaito plush said:

I just got back from voting in brexit and voted to leave cause if we do other countries will vote out too.

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And why do you think it's desirable?

Just trying to understand the reasoning of a Brexiteer.

Ivysaur said:

And why do you think it's desirable?

Just trying to understand the reasoning of a Brexiteer.

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the EU will collapse soon and don't want to be in it when it does does I made any sense ?

Sorry but where on did you get the information that EU is going to collaspe? I would like to read your sources for the sake of debate.

As I have done my own research, trying to find non-bias sources and all I have found is speculation and the repeated motto 'make Britain great again' as this solidifies their article. Furthermore, aren't we dooming ourselves if we leave? Other members have pointed out that there is no plan. Nothing. Where we headed? If we do leave, Scotland will most certainly hold another vote. Which might leave just England and Wales. So where's the end point?
My point is, isn't going off speculation and not trusting the experts a rather 'doom' tempting stance in all this? As really, being outside doesn't make us safe.

The Economist, leader of this week's issue, Divided We Fall

"Some Britons see this as a reason to get out, before the doomed edifice comes tumbling down. Yet the idea that quitting would spare Britain is the greatest illusion of it all. Even if Britain can leave the EU, it cannot leave Europe. The lesson going back centuries is that, because Britain is affected by what happens in Europe, it needs influence there. If Germany is too powerful, Britain should work with France to counterbalance it. If France wants the EU to be less liberal, Britain should work with the Dutch and the Nordics to stop it. If the EU is prospering, Britain needs to share in the good times. If the EU is falling, it has an interest in seeing the pieces land in the right place".

If Europe blows up, the UK won't be any safer from being outside- because it has a land border with another European country and does most of its trade with them. Geography is a tough mistress. And the best way to prevent the EU from imploding is... not walking out in the first place. And, of course, there is the very real risk that the EU, like the massive construct it is, survives the crisis and comes back up while the UK is left with less trade, the City on flames and cut off from the rest of the continent, Europe, it belongs in.

Lokiepie said:

Sorry but where on did you get the information that EU is going to collaspe? I would like to read your sources for the sake of debate.

As I have done my own research, trying to find non-bias sources and all I have found is speculation and the repeated motto 'make Britain great again' as this solidifies their article. Furthermore, aren't we dooming ourselves if we leave? Other members have pointed out that there is no plan. Nothing. Where we headed? If we do leave, Scotland will most certainly hold another vote. Which might leave just England and Wales. So where's the end point?
My point is, isn't going off speculation and not trusting the experts a rather 'doom' tempting stance in all this? As really, being outside doesn't make us safe.

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the Euro will collaspe one day is what I mean

as for scotland well not everyone wants independence, just cause SNP say they do....

When is the result of the vote supposed to be announced btw?