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  #26    
Old November 23rd, 2013, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luka S.J. View Post
No one here needs to be a shepherd and guide you through the unknown lands of RGSS and mechanics coding. There are plenty, and I mean PLENTY of tutorials out there that do that. All it takes is a little initiative on the "sheep's" behalf.
Then you have no sense of community, and you have no right to complain when there is not one.

Guides are not always relevant to the material being played with, and learning a programming language, 3D rendering, visual presentations etc. Generally require you to already know a little bit about it as is. A lot of guides skip the bare bones basics, and I mean a LOT. It makes it hard for the average joe to break into it.

I have been doing a lot of mathematical and analytical work lately, and if I have taken anything from it, it is that at some point, you begin to talk over someones head if they are wanting to understand it and that is not their fault.
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  #27    
Old November 23rd, 2013, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ЩѻƦḽᶑʂḽдƴƹƦ™ View Post
Then you have no sense of community, and you have no right to complain when there is not one.
Haha, I'm not the one complaining. I have all the tools I need. And as for the community, there are tons of links and references to various things around here too. All it takes is a little initiative to search for things. I assumed that people would at least try to find a solution to their problem on their own first, before posting threads, demanding stuff. When I'm in a pickle, I turn to Google first, then some manuals, then some friends. Opening a thread, is the last thing on my checklist. And by the time I get to that, I already solved my problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ЩѻƦḽᶑʂḽдƴƹƦ™ View Post
Guides are not always relevant to the material being played with, and learning a programming language, 3D rendering, visual presentations etc. Generally require you to already know a little bit about it as is. A lot of guides skip the bare bones basics, and I mean a LOT. It makes it hard for the average joe to break into it.
I am not making this up, but 5 years ago, out of the blue, I decided to make a Pokemon game. I had no knowledge of anything. The most I knew was how to write using Word, make presentations in Powerpoint, and do some stuff in Excel. So me, a person with zero knowledge, is now passing university programming classes with the best grades, and the lowest of effort. Why? Because I wanted to learn something, I got down to learning it, I spent a lot of time learning it. All this, from the ground up. Everyone starts at 0. Seriously, I am no genious, or a special person. I can be quite dumb. If I could learn RGSS to the level I am at now, just by reverse-engineering Pokemon Essentials, I don't see why others couldn't too. I never read any tutorials, because I don't like reading. All my knowledge came from trial and error, and all the open source code that was available to me, as it is to all the people here. So what makes them so special that they need special attention/help that I didn't need?
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  #28    
Old November 23rd, 2013, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luka S.J. View Post
Haha, I'm not the one complaining. I have all the tools I need. And as for the community, there are tons of links and references to various things around here too. All it takes is a little initiative to search for things. I assumed that people would at least try to find a solution to their problem on their own first, before posting threads, demanding stuff. When I'm in a pickle, I turn to Google first, then some manuals, then some friends. Opening a thread, is the last thing on my checklist. And by the time I get to that, I already solved my problem.



I am not making this up, but 5 years ago, out of the blue, I decided to make a Pokemon game. I had no knowledge of anything. The most I knew was how to write using Word, make presentations in Powerpoint, and do some stuff in Excel. So me, a person with zero knowledge, is now passing university programming classes with the best grades, and the lowest of effort. Why? Because I wanted to learn something, I got down to learning it, I spent a lot of time learning it. All this, from the ground up. Everyone starts at 0. Seriously, I am no genious, or a special person. I can be quite dumb. If I could learn RGSS to the level I am at now, just by reverse-engineering Pokemon Essentials, I don't see why others couldn't too. I never read any tutorials, because I don't like reading. All my knowledge came from trial and error, and all the open source code that was available to me, as it is to all the people here. So what makes them so special that they need special attention/help that I didn't need?
Luka, I know you well enough to understand that you are not an average person.

I fully understand where you are coming from, I am working in Life Insurance and at 24 years old I found myself in an interview where they were throwing out jargon that was way above my head. I seriously just nodded along as if I knew exactly what they were talking about just so I could get the job. The truth is, I had no idea what they were saying and I knew absolutely nothing about insurance of any kind let alone the numbers and how to calculate them. I am the kind of person that will run something through until I figure it out, and probably ask a lot of questions or wear out my keyboard looking for it. If I want to learn something, I will eventually learn it because I am one of those people who likes to be a jack of all trades.

However, there are an incredible number of people that struggle when they cannot receive help. I see agents come and go from our agency, every week. because they walk into the job, sit down at an agency meeting, and never come back because they just didn't get it. If I were leading these meetings, I sure as hell would slow down my roll for the new people for simple sake of retention. That is also easier said than done.

Going through it all over the years, you and I have been here for some time, it is easy to overlook the basic need for clarity. I am guilty of not being clear, or not slowing down, and even not sharing a bit of knowledge.

But I do when I can, and I try to do the best that I can. Unfortunately, many can't even seem to be bothered to teach someone how to fish.

I don't necessarily want to see everyone sharing their stuff, I DO want to see more people caring about the growth of this community and helping it get there and that is in the hands of those who can teach members to fish.
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Last edited by Worldslayer608; November 23rd, 2013 at 05:51 PM.
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  #29    
Old November 23rd, 2013, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ЩѻƦḽᶑʂḽдƴƹƦ™ View Post
Luka, I know you well enough to understand that you are not an average person.

I fully understand where you are coming from, I am working in Life Insurance and at 24 years old I found myself in an interview where they were throwing out jargon that was way above my head. I seriously just nodded along as if I knew exactly what they were talking about just so I could get the job. The truth is, I had no idea what they were saying and I knew absolutely nothing about insurance of any kind let alone the numbers and how to calculate them. I am the kind of person that will run something through until I figure it out, and probably ask a lot of questions or wear out my keyboard looking for it. If I want to learn something, I will eventually learn it because I am one of those people who likes to be a jack of all trades.

However, there are an incredible number of people that struggle when they cannot receive help. I see agents come and go from our agency, every week. because they walk into the job, sit down at an agency meeting, and never come back because they just didn't get it. If I were leading these meetings, I sure as hell would slow down my roll for the new people for simple sake of retention. That is also easier said than done.

Going through it all over the years, you and I have been here for some time, it is easy to overlook the basic need for clarity. I am guilty of not being clear, or not slowing down, and even not sharing a bit of knowledge.

But I do when I can, and I try to do the best that I can. Unfortunately, many can't even seem to be bothered to teach someone how to fish.

I don't necessarily want to see everyone sharing their stuff, I DO want to see more people caring about the growth of this community and helping it get there.
I just don't understand why many wouldn't be capable of teaching themselves how to fish, by learning about fishing from existing lore. The impression I got here was not the lack of mental capacity to learn, but rather the lack of mental will to learn. I've seen so many threads around here, where the same, ridiculous questions get asked and answered, and no one takes anything from them. This is perhaps my biggest issue. It doesn't matter how many times, and how much the more skilled people around here help out, when people aren't learning anything from it. When they don't want to learn anything from it. Where all they care for are answers and results, rather than "how we got them". Threads like "adding in Mega Evolutions", aren't asking "please teach us how to do it", they are saying "we want it implemented". Big difference. And as long as there is an abundance of those, no one will learn to fish, because no one is really asking how to fish. They just want the damn fish. And they'll pester you until you give it up.

You know what the saddest part is? Life is like that: More often, no one will be there for you when you need help - that's all a part of growing up. There are two roads you can take from there. One is a road to self development and progression, allowing you to overcome your obstacle. The other is falling into the pit. And out of sad personal experience, when I needed help from individuals of this community, I wasn't even worth a reply. Funny how now, some people which I asked for help, but didn't even get a simple "no", are now asking me for help.

Priorities are really important. Ask yourself, how much you really want something. I know, making a fan-game is a hobby, but to me, hobbies are just as important as education or work. Hobbies are what allows you to clear your mind of all the stress and pressure from the world. They are important for mental health. But because they are hobbies and not mandatory, some people are less inclined to implement work ethics into their hobby, and hence...we have this. In the end, it's their problem, not mine. I can't really bring myself to sympathise with anyone in this situation right now, because I've been in it, we all have. If you really have any interest, any passion for this, it will be more than enough to get you through.

So just like you said, when you really wanted something, you got to it and didn't stop until you reached your end goal. Same thing here, I really wanted to know how to code in Ruby, and now I can. Everything in life takes effort. If you want to play basketball, you have to practice. If you want to know how to play an instrument, you have to practice. If you want to learn another language, you have to practice. This is no different. Once again, a little initiative is required...for anything. There are plenty of things to nudge you in the right direction. Pokemon Essentials and its Wiki, are one of those things. Hmm...many seem to forget about the wiki. Oh, and not to mention all the comments in the codes themselves. Or the actual codes? Ruby isn't a hard language to follow. Compared to stuff like C and Java, Ruby, is straightforward. The syntax won't give you problems. All you are left with, actually, is learning about functions of the code. For instance: How to do calculations? What are classes? What are arrays? How do you use those in the code? And for all that you can just press F1 in RMXP and get the help manual. Type in the search "array" (for example), and voila, you have everything you need. It's that simple.
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Last edited by Luka S.J.; November 23rd, 2013 at 06:21 PM.
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  #30    
Old November 23rd, 2013, 11:07 PM
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Yeah... I don't really have a response any more. I love you Luka, but we just won't see eye to eye on this one.
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  #31    
Old November 24th, 2013, 04:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ЩѻƦḽᶑʂḽдƴƹƦ™ View Post
I think you took my post the wrong way.

I was not saying there is anything wrong with keeping things to themselves when it comes to development.

I do however, feel there is something wrong with the level of give and take that this community exerts. There is some skewed idea that is akin to seeders and leeches in the world of file sharing.

The problem is the community and the level at which there is all take and no give. That most certainly extends beyond resources.

"Give a man a fish..."
This is the problem, but keep in mind that more than 50% of the Essentials users doesn't last for more than a month. Some are too young, some are not interested enough, etc...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luka S.J. View Post
I just don't understand why many wouldn't be capable of teaching themselves how to fish, by learning about fishing from existing lore. The impression I got here was not the lack of mental capacity to learn, but rather the lack of mental will to learn. I've seen so many threads around here, where the same, ridiculous questions get asked and answered, and no one takes anything from them. This is perhaps my biggest issue. It doesn't matter how many times, and how much the more skilled people around here help out, when people aren't learning anything from it. When they don't want to learn anything from it. Where all they care for are answers and results, rather than "how we got them". Threads like "adding in Mega Evolutions", aren't asking "please teach us how to do it", they are saying "we want it implemented". Big difference. And as long as there is an abundance of those, no one will learn to fish, because no one is really asking how to fish. They just want the damn fish. And they'll pester you until you give it up.
Let me pick a Post that Maruno's agree from the same thread that you cited:

Quote:
Originally Posted by FL . View Post
A important note: For a independent Essentials script developers a plug and play script minigame is very easier to do than a (relativelly) big change that involve battle system, not only for the user to install, but for the dev to explain how to install. And the dev needs to support the script and making it compatible with Essentials future versions.
So, for a dev other than Maruno to implement something in Essentials, they need to implement in the last Essentials version. Additionally, they need to keep track of EVERY line included/changed, explain how to redo ALL the changes and Maruno need to follow all these instructions (sometimes Maruno finds a better way of implementing a feature). And you need to combine with Maruno before or, depending of the change, he rejects. That I trying to say is: For a dev other than Maruno, adding things in Essentials requires more effort, except for some plug and play scripts like the Hall of Fame that I made.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luka S.J. View Post
Haha, I'm not the one complaining. I have all the tools I need. And as for the community, there are tons of links and references to various things around here too. All it takes is a little initiative to search for things. I assumed that people would at least try to find a solution to their problem on their own first, before posting threads, demanding stuff. When I'm in a pickle, I turn to Google first, then some manuals, then some friends. Opening a thread, is the last thing on my checklist. And by the time I get to that, I already solved my problem.
Really I do the same thing, the community need more of this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luka S.J. View Post
I am not making this up, but 5 years ago, out of the blue, I decided to make a Pokemon game. I had no knowledge of anything. The most I knew was how to write using Word, make presentations in Powerpoint, and do some stuff in Excel. So me, a person with zero knowledge, is now passing university programming classes with the best grades, and the lowest of effort. Why? Because I wanted to learn something, I got down to learning it, I spent a lot of time learning it. All this, from the ground up. Everyone starts at 0. Seriously, I am no genious, or a special person. I can be quite dumb. If I could learn RGSS to the level I am at now, just by reverse-engineering Pokemon Essentials, I don't see why others couldn't too. I never read any tutorials, because I don't like reading. All my knowledge came from trial and error, and all the open source code that was available to me, as it is to all the people here. So what makes them so special that they need special attention/help that I didn't need?
Because not everyone have vocation for programming. I followed several people learning programming, some I even teach. For someones, using two "while"s, one inside another, it's almost an impossible task to mastered, even if I comment/explain line by line of a code that do this for something, several times.

And even for a programmer with 0/1/5/10/20 years of experience I suggest to read tutorials/guides, because the best way to learn is a combinations of theory and practice. There are thing that are easier to understand with practice and others with theory. Don't reinvent the wheel.

I also coding everything (almost) without tutorials guides in the first years, but this creates for me blind points in parts that I can improve, specially at testing. And there parts that I would learn faster by tutorials than testing.

And coding isn't the only way for helping the community: http://pokemonessentials.wikia.com/w...w_you_can_help . More people should read this page.
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  #32    
Old November 24th, 2013, 05:08 PM
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Well Pokémon Essentials has actually been updated a lot from the past year,
Look at Pokémon TCG Mod
Look at RMXP-OS
Look at the Android Version / Mac Version
This engine is getting updated all the time !
To Help out the Community , when my mmo game gets finished I will be releasing it as a Base to use.

What can the community do to help out everyone ?
1: Make a PVP to work with RMXP-OS

2: Make all the region maps?
Kento:100%
Johto:100%
Hoenn:25%
Sinnoh:0%
Unova:0%

3:Gen 6 Pokemon

4:Mega Evolutions

5: Pokemon TCG ?

These are all ideas that still need to be done
We need to come together as one big group
Yes I know I can be pig-headed but I think big !
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