PokeCommunity's Competitive Battling Community

welcome to the club, hikari :3 and guys, feel free to discuss about the nerfs x and y brought to us, also the buffs if you guys wanna :p

Ooka said:

The nerf to stall, while not direct, is pretty huge imo. Steel lost it's Ghost and Dark resistance, of course, which is the first hit it took. Things like Skarmory, Forretress, Bronzong, Jirachi, Heatran, and Metagross really hate losing that, as they can't switch in on some of the things they had no fear of coming in on before. For example, Sp. Def Jirachi can't come in on Gengar and feel safe, same for Metagross with Tyranitar.

In addition to that, some HUGE wallbreakers were added. Aegislash, which imo is the biggest one, can really break stuff with it's mixed set. Then you have Magic Bounce Mega Absol, Mega Garchomp, Mega Charizard Y, all of which have crazy wall breaking capability with their mixed sets.

Then look at what we got in the way of walls this gen. Florges, Sylveon, Carbink, Goodra, Gourgeist, Avalugg.

The only usable ones (OU) being Florges, Goodra and Gourgeist imo. So 3 walls, all easily broken by the Pokemon I mentioned before, so not really any help.

And of course, the big one, Defog was added. This means that even if you run the epic Jellicent, all of your hard earned hazards can still disappear in just 1 turn, without anything to block it.

In my honest opinion, this gen is the death of full stall.

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I disagree with that. Stall is still effective but its "new stall" really, old school stall hasnt been good since gen 4 sadly.

I feel Defog also kills offense too as offense relies on Stealth Rock to get past many checks. Stall teams can use Defog too to thwart Spikes stacking against them (one of the best ways to wall break) and just wait until offensive hazard setters are dead and just use status to wear you down. It really makes no difference ive found. Also remember stall teams often use bulky Pokemon so can set up multiple times after you kill their Defogger. Which brings me to my next point.

Trappers easily remove Defog users and are easy to utilize on stall. Stall just has to adapt. Honestly if you use a Defog user against one of my teams you WILL go 5-6 down straight from the get go. Wasted slot vs elf stall.

Stall just has to be more aggressive, but its still quite usable.

Also all these wall breakers can still be stopped. Mix Aegislash is relatively weak and checked by bulky waters, Heatran etc.

Mega Abosol isnt beating Sylveon or Florgees anytime soon. MegaChomp is a little harder to check as it can go mixed but it has 4mss and struggles with bulky grass types like Gourgeist and also Gliscor if it uses SD + 3 Attacks. If it uses a Mix Set i.e ChainChomp then its walled by stuff like Gyarados and Togekiss and all out attackers are stopped by well anything with good mix defenses see: Deoxys-D, Jellicent, Vap, Sp.Def Hippow etc.

Lastly also still relevant trapping move buff were a pretty big boon to stall imo as far as residual damage goes. Even without hazards you'd be surprised how fast say Toxic/Wisp and possibly SS/Hail + Infestation/Wrap/Whirlpool absolutely ruin many pokemon in so few turns its scary lol.

Oh and Quagsire is awesome.

Anyway;

- Username: Dark Azelf
- Answer to current topic: see above.
- Experience in competitive battling: Lol since gsc. Got to #1 in most tiers ladders during gen 4 and 5. I also pioneered Volt Turning in gen 4.
- Favourite Pokemon(s): Omastar, Weezing, Azelf, Skarm, Bliss, Trevenent, Gourgeist, Qwilfish.
- Preferred playstyle/core: Anything that works the best. So "elf offense", "elf stall", "elf defensive offense", "elf HO". Elf weak. :)
- Extra: Im shredded and my biceps are larger than urs.

-What's your inspiration and motivation to battle competitively?

I retired and im trying to not be rusty/enjoy comp battling again and get back into things.

Username: Helios93
What's your inspiration and motivation to battle competitively?: It's fun when we consider all the countless combos and strategies in the game.

Experience in competitive battling: 2 years

Favourite Pokemon(s): Confagrius, Honchkrow, Amoongus and Slowbro.

Preferred playstyle/core: Avoid using OU pokes whenever possible because I don't like similarity in team. I love to use NU or UU pokes in OU battle just to see how well they perform. Currently, I've been testing Ariados in Pokemon Showdown and surprisingly it did well.

Extra: I'm pretty busy with college in a few more days, and due to timezone, I might not able to join in for any tourney but a few battle request won't hurt, right?

- Username: synerjee

- Answer to current topic: What's your inspiration and motivation to battle competitively?
I just love the feeling of putting together a winning team and winning battle after battle. Gives me a sense of accomplishment.

- Experience in competitive battling:
I've only been competitive battling for about only a year. Before this, I didn't have any interest in it at all. So much has changed since then.

- Favourite Pokemon(s):
Competitively speaking, I don't really have any favourites to be honest. Each and every Pokemon has their own strengths and weaknesses which help me in many different situations. I'll go with Latias and Goomy though.

- Preferred playstyle/core:
I prefer a mixture of all-out attacking and defensive-stalling. Great for hitting hard and resisting getting knocked out easily.

the more the merrier, thanks guys for joining :]
elf it was a pain to insert all those icons for you xD

feel free to discuss about xy nerfs and buffs more before someone changes the topic, main op topic will be changed before i leave for hongkong too.

side note: looking for someone who can manage the club for four days while im at hongkong. i might drop by a few times if i have the chance to, but meh :p

Dark Azelf said:

I disagree with that. Stall is still effective but its "new stall" really, old school stall hasnt been good since gen 4 sadly.

I feel Defog also kills offense too as offense relies on Stealth Rock to get past many checks. Stall teams can use Defog too to thwart Spikes stacking against them (one of the best ways to wall break) and just wait until offensive hazard setters are dead and just use status to wear you down. It really makes no difference ive found. Also remember stall teams often use bulky Pokemon so can set up multiple times after you kill their Defogger. Which brings me to my next point.

Trappers easily remove Defog users and are easy to utilize on stall. Stall just has to adapt. Honestly if you use a Defog user against one of my teams you WILL go 5-6 down straight from the get go. Wasted slot vs elf stall.

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Other than Mega Gengar, what trapper can take out Mandibuzz? D:

Dark Azelf said:

Stall just has to be more aggressive, but its still quite usable.

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But then it starts to be semi-stall, not full stall, which is what I was talking about. :3

Dark Azelf said:

Mega Abosol isnt beating Sylveon or Florgees anytime soon. MegaChomp is a little harder to check as it can go mixed but it has 4mss and struggles with bulky grass types like Gourgeist and also Gliscor if it uses SD + 3 Attacks. If it uses a Mix Set i.e ChainChomp then its walled by stuff like Gyarados and Togekiss and all out attackers are stopped by well anything with good mix defenses see: Deoxys-D, Jellicent, Vap, Sp.Def Hippow etc.

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+2 252+ Atk Rayquaza Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Umbreon: 249-293 (74.55 - 87.72%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

(Rayquaza has same Attack stat as Mega Absol, Leaf Blade has same power as Play Rough, Changed Umbreon's base stats to match Sylveon)

+2 252+ Atk Rayquaza Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Umbreon: 326-384 (90.55 - 106.66%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

(And this one is with Florges' base stats)

So even if they run max Defense, they can't come in on it very many times.

Dark Azelf said:

Lastly also still relevant trapping move buff were a pretty big boon to stall imo as far as residual damage goes. Even without hazards you'd be surprised how fast say Toxic/Wisp and possibly SS/Hail + Infestation/Wrap/Whirlpool absolutely ruin many pokemon in so few turns its scary lol.

Oh and Quagsire is awesome.

Click to expand...

Yeah, that damage does rack up super quick, which is one of the very few buffs that helps stall. Infestation Goodra is nasty imo. And Quagsire is pretty awesome. xD

Ooka said:

Other than Mega Gengar, what trapper can take out Mandibuzz? D:

There is Specs Gothitelle who is cool for various elimination needs Also if you lack Taunt, Tickle Wobb + Pursuit user ruin it.

+2 252+ Atk Rayquaza Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Umbreon: 249-293 (74.55 - 87.72%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

(Rayquaza has same Attack stat as Mega Absol, Leaf Blade has same power as Play Rough, Changed Umbreon's base stats to match Sylveon)

+2 252+ Atk Rayquaza Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Umbreon: 326-384 (90.55 - 106.66%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

(And this one is with Florges' base stats)

So even if they run max Defense, they can't come in on it very many times.

You should run some def evs on both, anything up to max. :P There is also unaware Clefable, Aromatisse and Togekiss who are both really awesome and have better defense.


Yeah, that damage does rack up super quick, which is one of the very few buffs that helps stall. Infestation Goodra is nasty imo. And Quagsire is pretty awesome. xD

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:)

elf it was a pain to insert all those icons for you xD

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Dark Azelf said:

:)

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+2 252+ Atk Rayquaza Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Umbreon: 219-258 (60.83 - 71.66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
(Florges)

+2 252+ Atk Rayquaza Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Umbreon: 225-265 (57.1 - 67.25%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
(Sylveon)

+2 252+ Atk Rayquaza Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 212-250 (52.21 - 61.57%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
(Aromatisse)

+2 252+ Atk Rayquaza Leaf Blade vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Togekiss: 178-210 (47.72 - 56.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Unaware Clefable can tank a few hits, so sure it's an option.

252+ Atk Rayquaza Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 106-125 (26.9 - 31.72%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock
(That's Unaware damage, with Magic Guard it's of course doubled)

D:

Ooka said:

But then it starts to be semi-stall, not full stall, which is what I was talking about. :3

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Not to get too into terminology here, but "semi-stall" is basically "full stall" adapted to the gen 4 metagame (and beyond). If by full stall you mean a reactive mix of six slow walls, hazards, sandstorm (or hail I guess), spinblocker, spinner, etc., then yeah it's not going to be seen much, just like gen 3 Choice Band teams aren't seen anymore because you can play that style better now--it adapted into bulky offense or hyper offense. People have invented new terms for playstyles that have just adapted in order to stay viable, which isn't evil or anything, but in some full stall and semistall are basically just the same playstyle that look different because of their surroundings.

(Unless semi-stall has become more distinctive since gen four. I suspect it hasn't, but I suppose it could be different. Maybe it's semi-half-sort of-semi-stall now. ;p)

also heyyyy guys

Anti said:

Not to get too into terminology here, but "semi-stall" is basically "full stall" adapted to the gen 4 metagame (and beyond). If by full stall you mean a reactive mix of six slow walls, hazards, sandstorm (or hail I guess), spinblocker, spinner, etc., then yeah it's not going to be seen much, just like gen 3 Choice Band teams aren't seen anymore because you can play that style better now--it adapted into bulky offense or hyper offense. People have invented new terms for playstyles that have just adapted in order to stay viable, which isn't evil or anything, but in some full stall and semistall are basically just the same playstyle that look different because of their surroundings.

(Unless semi-stall has become more distinctive since gen four. I suspect it hasn't, but I suppose it could be different. Maybe it's semi-half-sort of-semi-stall now. ;p)

also heyyyy guys

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"Unlike heavy stall, stall-based balance[semi-stall] does threaten the opponent's team offensively and pokemon who do not mind residual damage [such as Flygon and most steels] are hard pressed. Stall-based balance[semi-stall] also runs things like CM + Roar Latias or a lategame SD Scizor to clean up."

http://pokemetrics.wordpress.com/2012/08/16/measuring-stall-2/

Also hi Anti, I love you. <3

I don't think that contradicts what I said at all, quite the opposite. It's not that there aren't substantive differences but rather that these differences aren't indicative of a different playstyle, and honestly, if semistall is putting ScarfTar over Blissey and a CM/Roar Latias over, say, Tentacruel (these are gen 4 examples), then the team is still operating in more or less the same way in its underlying strategy for winning games.

(Obviously kind of a pointless debate, but that's sort of the fun of it, eh?)

also gurl no way im reading that haha

Anti said:

I don't think that contradicts what I said at all, quite the opposite. It's not that there aren't substantive differences but rather that these differences aren't indicative of a different playstyle, and honestly, if semistall is putting ScarfTar over Blissey and a CM/Roar Latias over, say, Tentacruel (these are gen 4 examples), then the team is still operating in more or less the same way in its underlying strategy for winning games.

(Obviously kind of a pointless debate, but that's sort of the fun of it, eh?)

also gurl no way im reading that haha

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What fun would it be if there were an actual outcome of it? xD

http://pokemetrics.wordpress.com/2012/09/13/revisions-revisions/

The chart there is probably better than the long post I linked to last.

Ooka said:

+2 252+ Atk Rayquaza Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Umbreon: 219-258 (60.83 - 71.66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
(Florges)

+2 252+ Atk Rayquaza Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Umbreon: 225-265 (57.1 - 67.25%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
(Sylveon)

+2 252+ Atk Rayquaza Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 212-250 (52.21 - 61.57%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
(Aromatisse)

+2 252+ Atk Rayquaza Leaf Blade vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Togekiss: 178-210 (47.72 - 56.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Unaware Clefable can tank a few hits, so sure it's an option.

252+ Atk Rayquaza Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 106-125 (26.9 - 31.72%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock
(That's Unaware damage, with Magic Guard it's of course doubled)

D:

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And if it stays in all return the KO with Moonblast. :P

Dark Azelf said:

And if it stays in all return the KO with Moonblast. :P

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After they've been dropped to 30-40% :3 Of course, now we're just theorymoning. xD


So what do people think will start to become staples in future OU and what's just being overhyped right now?

Imo Talonflame is all hype and it's going to drop in usage once people learn how to take it out (If Geodude can own it, there has to be a problem). Aegislash is another one I feel is pretty overhyped.

I feel like once the megas that are uber get out of the way, Mega Absol and Mega Ampharos will get a chance to shine. Both are fun and pretty beastly, Mampharos being like a Goodra on roids, and Mabsol being super fast and cool looking. :3

I agree that Aegislash and Talonflame are all hype.

A few pokemon i feel that will be OU staples are Greninja, Gourgeist, and Charizard Y.

Greninja is very versatile and deadly at the same time. STAB on any move it gets is crazy good (Poptarts) along with its movepool as well.

Gourgeist is simply a tank with a good movepool as well, and i see it as a good functioning member of stall teams.

Charizard Y can potentially take the throne away from Ninetales on drought/sun teams. It also gets solarbeam so that is a major plus in keeping it alive, i feel.

There are probably more, but these three were the ones i could think of off the top of my head.

EDIT: I may be biased on this one, but i feel that Mega Mawile will be popular in OU

anti, its good to see you joining in on the chat! if you feel like taking part more, please submit your registration form and you'll be added to the members list :]

nice to see a topic change :p like dreyko, i feel that greninja will be popular in ou, thanks to stab on every move and access to great moves such as spikes, hydro pump, u-turn and two forms of priority.

talonflame is meh, aegislash is overhyped and easy to counter, but a great asset to any team if played correctly tho. azumarill is great too, thanks to drumjet being legal now and its additional fairy typing.

btw im also working on a tourney, should be pokebank ubers :p and...

side note: looking for someone who can manage the club for four days while im at hongkong. i might drop by a few times if i have the chance to, but meh :p

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Agreed with Greninja and Gourgeist definitely, they're extremely solid Pokemon (I heard talk about Greninja getting banned from OU, just because of it's unpredictability, great movepool, Protean and speed+power. I personally doubt it'll happen though).

- Username: Perdition Haze.
- Experience in competitive battling: Been battling on and off for approximately three years. I'm good at it, but not that good.
- Favourite Pokemon(s): Scizor, Chansey, and Suicune.
- Preferred playstyle/core: Defensive, and sometimes bulky offense.

What's your inspiration and motivation to battle competitively?
To pass time and have fun. I randomly stumbled into Smogon one day; by seeing all the battlers hanging around there, I wanted to join in on the fun. Was pretty terrible when I first started, but with help from few of the members there (as well as couple of my personal friend, who were also into competitive battling), my skills began to get better. Now, I'd say I'm an okay battler. I could easily be outsmarted, though. If you do outsmart me, you'd be winning the match in an instant. d:

hey perdition haze, nice to see more people joining :) feel free to join in chat, currently our topic is about gen 6 ou staples.

Username: I don't know
Experience in competitive: A good two months.
Favorite Pokemanz: Mudkip, Whiscash, Azumarill, Bidoof, Mega Kanzlerkhan (kanga), espurr, and magikarp.
Preferred playstyle/core: NU Stall is the best. But i will play anything.

What's your inspiration and motivation to battle competitively?
Well, it all started when I discovered one of my friends still played Platinum. I decided I would make the perfect team in order to beat him, which I did (not telling the team >:D) but... I wanted...more....pokemon... I found this out. (I might tell the full story later) And once I found Showdown, I fell in love. Like, I go on there every freakin day!! But I battle because it's fun and I get to make new friends and amazing people along the way.