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So, apparently the latest tiering news was released and it's quite a hard one:

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/smogon-usage-based-tier-update-june-2014.3508291/

Some notable once-shining stars of OU - Alakazam, Volcarona, Blissey, Lucario and Infernape finally fell from grace, dropping from OU into UU. Now people who are new to the metagame will probably be calling Blissey "mediocre" due to the latest changes. I bet they just couldn't survive the onslaught of Wash Rotom and Aegislash (aka the new top OU stars).

So how is everyone reacting to these changes?

These changes aren't really anything major if we're talking about OU. Things are different in UU, however, because Volcarona and maybe Lucario wrecks almost everything in there.

I was kinda expecting Alakazam and Volcarona to drop to UU, but not Lucario and Blissey. Not sure how something with an Ubers Mega Evolution dropped to UU, and Blissey still seems like OU material to me.

...And now half of my 1st OU team is now classified as UU. It has Hydreigon, Volcarona, Mega Aggron, Togekiss, Gastrodon, and Excadrill in it. Still gonna use them in OU anyway lol.

But what I'm really waiting for is the results of the suspect test on full Baton Pass teams.

I'm actually surprised that Manectric, Gardevoir, Medicham and Scolipede secured solid OU status; I expected them to stay in BL, tbh.

As for Infernape, Volcarona and Blissey falling to UU...that's a surprise. I still think they're viable in OU, though.

It's very likely that Lucario and Volcarona will move up into BL in the next week or so. Blissey, however, is outclassed by Chansey in terms of usefulness in OU imo. The only advantages that Blissey has over Chansey are better attacking stats and not susceptible to Knock Off.

I do like how UU is looking right now, though. It's like another DPP OU lol

PlatinumDude said:

I'm actually surprised that Manectric, Gardevoir, Medicham and Scolipede secured solid OU status; I expected them to stay in BL, tbh.

As for Infernape, Volcarona and Blissey falling to UU...that's a surprise. I still think they're viable in OU, though.

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When Scolipede got Speed Boost, I was pretty certain he was going to shoot up to OU and it seems like I was right. Medicham I guess managed to make it because its Mega gains a solid boost to its Speed (Mega Medicham has 100 base Speed, which is pretty common in OU) along with still having the strength thanks to Pure Power.

Not sure about Gardevoir, but I guess it's to do with Megas again given how powerful those Pixilate-boosted Hyper Voices can get, as already proven with Sylveon. Mega Gardevoir's pretty high Sp. Attack makes those Hyper Voices really hurt, I know she'll struggle against Steels but Focus Blast handles them, and Shadow Ball can get past Aegislash at times. I know Aegislash will be the main threat because it has an advantage on both of Gardy's types. Still, interesting decision on Smogon's part.

Manectric was kinda surprising, because I remember when Jolteon used to outclass it but now with Mega Manectric in play it's the other way around. Despite having the weakest stat total of all the Megas, I guess the reason Manectric made it was due to its Speed, strong special attacking prowess and Intimidate which softens physical hits slightly. I think it's the one I'm really questioned about but I'll see how well it performs.

Zeffy said:

It's very likely that Lucario and Volcarona will move up into BL in the next week or so. Blissey, however, is outclassed by Chansey in terms of usefulness in OU imo. The only advantages that Blissey has over Chansey are better attacking stats and not susceptible to Knock Off.

I do like how UU is looking right now, though. It's like another DPP OU lol

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I was also suspecting the reason Blissey fell was due to Eviolite Chansey outclassing it, but yeah it's still a rare case that a Pokemon is somehow in a lower tier than its pre-evo. Lucario I think could make it into BL because it still has the power behind its moves, and there's still the Baton Pass suspect testing that will be going on in OU and the results of that could see even more changes to come.

PlatinumDude said:

I'm actually surprised that Manectric, Gardevoir, Medicham and Scolipede secured solid OU status; I expected them to stay in BL, tbh.

As for Infernape, Volcarona and Blissey falling to UU...that's a surprise. I still think they're viable in OU, though.

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To this (and the above poster), Mega Manectric is quite good--Intimidate is wonderful, and its combination of power and speed mixed with the momentum grabbing prowess of Volt Switch make it a fantastic choice on most offense teams. Its only real problems are that it struggles against stall and takes up the mega slot, but it's definitely OU material. (And Scolipede is a staple on BP which litters much of the upper ladder and will soon get nerfed, so...yeah.)

Blissey is almost entirely outclassed by Chansey. I love when my opponents use Blissey instead because it's so much easier to break. Even the Knock Off thing Zeffy brought up is somewhat silly, as Blissey hates losing its Leftovers, and more importantly, it hates taking a strong physical attack and might as well not be there if it's going to be taking Knock Offs. Pokemon that use Knock Off are diverse, but Bisharp creams both of them, Ferrothorn can Leech Seed, Landorus-T can set up on either and has massive Attack, and...yeah, Blissey sucks lol.

Lucario is terrible in OU in my experience playing against it. It's never a threat, and it's not like my team is particularly well-prepared for it. It's just too difficult to set up despite its Steel typing. It could be good in UU though, but I don't know anything about that metagame.

Volcarona is a major threat in OU, but Stealth Rock :(

I agree though that Medicham is somewhat surprising--it's a nuke. Still tough to get in, but double switching exists and it's just fast enough to be a pain. I bet better physical megas contributed to low usage, with mega Gyarados, Charizard-X, Mawile, Scizor, Tyranitar, and Pinsir all being huge threats that are in a different class than Medicham.

Anti said:

To this (and the above poster), Mega Manectric is quite good--Intimidate is wonderful, and its combination of power and speed mixed with the momentum grabbing prowess of Volt Switch make it a fantastic choice on most offense teams. Its only real problems are that it struggles against stall and takes up the mega slot, but it's definitely OU material.

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I do have to agree Mega Manectric is really good, I remember every time I was pitted against one I always had problems taking it down due to its speed and power, along with Intimidate weakening any physical attacker I plan to use against it. And of course it can scout with Volt Switch, which means if you can't outrun it it'll most likely be passing over to a teammate that can deal with its foe. It really does deserve its spot in OU, even if it has the shallowest movepool of the Megas, it still has its niches.

I think the surprise about Gardevoir and Manectric being in OU is more that the regular forms are in OU. Their megas are obviously OU worthy, but maybe not so much regular Gardevoir and Manectric.

Mega Sceptile and Mega Swampert have been leaked in Corocoro. Mega Sceptile is Grass/Dragon and has Lightning Rod as an ability. Mega Swampert retains the Water/Ground type and has Swift Swim. Mega Diancie has been revealed too, but we don't know anything else about it.

Personally, I think that Lightning Rod is rather underwhelming for Mega Sceptile, considering that it would 4x resist Electric without it. Switching in to Thunder Waves is neat, though. I'm also glad that Mega Swampert got Swift Swim not only in terms of Dex entries (in its Emerald Dex entry, regular Swampert swims as fast as a jet ski), but because of usefulness: it finally can compensate for its low Speed outside of Choice Scarf, but only in rain.

What stat increases do you think these Mega forms will get? (assuming speculation isn't allowed in this thread)

Salt&PepperDiner said:

I think the surprise about Gardevoir and Manectric being in OU is more that the regular forms are in OU. Their megas are obviously OU worthy, but maybe not so much regular Gardevoir and Manectric.

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My understanding is that the tiers are based on usage, and since it's impossible to use a mega without first sending in its base form, things like normal Mawile are going to be OU. I'm sure you could use usage statistics to see how much each mega stone is used, but that could become a mathematical nightmare when determining cutoffs so I think Smogon is trying to keep it simple?

As for mega Hoenn starters, Swift Swim could be nice for Rain teams, and Ground typing is nice for stuff like Mega Manectric. Of course, it depends on his stats. Sceptile is intriguing but is still going to need a way to get through Steel-types--maybe Earthquake and HP Fire with its STABs if its stats are good enough. :) But Speed is always welcome.

Okay here's my thoughts on those new Hoenn starter Megas.

Mega Swampert may look ugly appearance-wise (but I guess that's just me) but Swift Swim seems like a sweet ability for it because not only did it sorta fit with one of Swampert's Pokedex entries but it will be handy to use on Rain-based teams (even if weather did get nerfed this generation) given the ability can allow it to overcome its low Speed in the rain. For stat boosts I'm expecting most likely Attack along with both its defenses, the huge fists also make me think it'll have slightly lower Speed than its non-Mega, sorta like what happened with Garchomp and Ampharos. And I think Anti's statement is onto something, it could become a potential good Mega Manectric counter, so I'd imagine those using Mega Manectric would have to run Hidden Power Grass just to avoid getting completely walled by it.

Still, I wonder if this will be the boost Swampert was wanting all along to become more viable competitively again, since its prowess was hurt a bit due to Ferrothorn's presence. Only time will tell. Thank god it didn't get Sap Sipper because that would have been nasty, given it would have had no weaknesses aside from Freeze-Dry in that case.

Anti said:

maybe Earthquake and HP Fire with its STABs if its stats are good enough.

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Sceptile can already learn Earthquake through TM. But I do agree with Platinum's post, Mega Sceptile's ability is kinda not a good complement with its type combination because as he mentioned, the Grass/Dragon combination, not counting any abilities, has a 4x resistance to Electric attacks but it can be good for blocking Thunder Wave in some way. Given that Grass-types also have the immunity to spore/powder moves I realize it'll be very hard to successfully paralyze because Stun Spore won't work, and now also Thunder Wave (and other Electric moves) due to Lightning Rod. It seems like the ultimate wall to the best paralysis-inducing moves, since most of those moves are Electric-type. Although Mow Rotom has that same Stun Spore/Thunder Wave immunity combination (but that's due to its own typing in that case and not an ability) it's still worth mentioning. The only real way to land paralysis on Mega Sceptile iirc would be either from Tri Attack or a Thunder Wave that was used by something with Normalize (but we all know Delcatty sucks to begin with). Black Kyurem's Freeze Shock would work too but that 4x Ice weakness means it'll more likely get OHKO'd before even hoping for the paralysis side-effect. Oh, and there's also Glare but that gets shallow distribution because it's heavily associated with snakes.

I bet that'll really put a dent in the infamous SwagPlay Liepard sets which like to use increased-priority Thunder Waves (due to Prankster) to set up the Swagger. I'm probably seeing Mega Sceptile getting a slight boost to its Speed (because well it is fast and that seems like what they want to go for here) but I'm hoping they can give it an Attack boost high enough to be even with its Sp. Attack so that it can use its larger physical-based movepool better. Apparently Mega Sceptile's Grass/Dragon typing walls the STABs of Wash Rotom. Competitive play surely got flipped on its head once again.

Apparently a few other Pokemon were moved around in UU and OU: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/smogon-usage-based-tier-update-june-2014.3508291/

Goodra is also in UU now, and Vaporeon, Quagsire, and Smeargle are now in OU.

I'm not surprised at Vaporeon being OU; its always been good for me. Little annoyed at Smeargle being in OU since I had a sorta Baton Pass team in UU with it. My other UU team also had Vaporeon in it, so its look like I'll have to adjust my teams now....

Oh, and apparently Jolteon has dropped to RU.

I actually like the look of Mega Sceptile. Awesome resistances and t-wave immunity.

Also you guys are forgetting that Lightningrod is amazing. I mean, how good is 4x walling the satan of Pokemon: see Rotom-W STAB moves? Not only that but getting a sp.att boost AND blocking VOLT SWITCH? Yes please!

Grass move/Dragon move/Focus Blast/HP Fire or SD/Dragon Claw/Leaf Blade/filler probs EQ or some sort of garbage mixed set seems cool.

Megapert might be decent on rain teams with some strange ass Power Up Punch set lol. :/

Dark Azelf said:

I actually like the look of Mega Sceptile. Awesome resistances and t-wave immunity.

Also you guys are forgetting that Lightningrod is amazing. I mean, how good is 4x walling the satan of Pokemon: see Rotom-W STAB moves? Not only that but getting a sp.att boost AND blocking VOLT SWITCH? Yes please!

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Blocking Wash Rotom's common sets is definitely something amazing. Immunity to Thunder Wave (and Stun Spore too, so yeah gonna be very hard to paralyze) to protect its high Speed along with blocking Volt Switch is like really gonna stop those Wash Rotoms cold in their tracks. I think what Game Freak were doing here was to make it fast and ensure it remains fast, and given how common Thunder Wave is in the metagame it can really put a dent in those that rely on it as part of their strategy.

I'd imagine Wash Rotom having to start running Hidden Power Ice in its sets just to avoid getting completely walled while also taking advantage of its 4x Ice weakness.

E3 officially revealed Primal Kyogre and Primal Groudon. According to them, Primal Kyogre retains the original's pure Water type, while Primal Groudon becomes Ground/Fire. Primal Kyogre's Special Attack is increased, while Primal Groudon's Attack is increased. Their Drizzle and Drought abilities will also be enhanced in some way.

What does anyone think? I think that Groudon kind of suffered with its Primal form, considering that it's still weak to Water (4x weak), even when sunny weather is active.

PlatinumDude said:

E3 officially revealed Primal Kyogre and Primal Groudon. According to them, Primal Kyogre retains the original's pure Water type, while Primal Groudon becomes Ground/Fire. Primal Kyogre's Special Attack is increased, while Primal Groudon's Attack is increased. Their Drizzle and Drought abilities will also be enhanced in some way.

What does anyone think? I think that Groudon kind of suffered with its Primal form, considering that it's still weak to Water (4x weak), even when sunny weather is active.

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Yeah I do admit Groudon really suffered, gaining a nasty 4x Water weakness given the Ground/Fire typing is shared with fellow Hoenn Pokemon Camerupt. I always had a gut feeling Kyogre would be the better of the two mascots and it's now becoming even more evident.

But still, can't wait to hear how Drought and Drizzle will be enhanced.

Drizzle and Drought enhanced? Maybe they'll get a perpetual weather version? :O

I really hope that Drought and Drizzle aren't re-upgraded to perma-weather again. Even though it'd only be restricted to Ubers, I'm really not up for a weather-centric meta. That was kinda annoying last gen.

I don't think that'd happen. I was talking about them getting a new version of Drought and Drizzle--which makes sense since, alongside their legendary status, they are the first Pokemon discovered to have that ability. I really wouldn't mind either way.