Poke Island (SE)

[Kine]

Whoops! Didn't know there was a post above this.

I don't think there'll ever be a demo, although I will allow several people to do error testing and such, and just general feedback on the environments. The idea is that want the game to just be 100% done before it's ever released publically, like any actual game. Now, I may make more videos, but nothing has really happened since the last video as I've just been doing graphics only, and I couldn't settle on a game engine. I think, though, that now the engine of choice is going to be finalized.

But for what was shown, yeah, that was using RMXP. It's such a graphically unfriendly program. XE


@Perp. Then it comes down to that window. It's an aesthetic that I just do not want there.

I'll manage the sprites out somehow in RPG Maker if I have too.

[Perpetr8r]

Ok well I did some research and it turns out that yes, you can remove the text window and indeed any other elements you wish from the BYOND interface. I'm not sure about the command bar at the bottom, but tonight if I feel well enough I will have a mess around with the new interface and see if I can get just the map screen going. At worst, you'll have that command bar at the bottom and the map screen on its own.

EDIT: Turns out you can remove the command bar too. Neat!

[Kine]

Oh thank God. Hey, can I get a screenshot or something of what the end result will look like without all that clutter?

OH oh, one other thing. 8 directional pixel by pixel movement (instead of tile). It can be done, right? When I was working with it, I could only manage tiles, but I assume that's just default.

[Perpetr8r]

Well, because I'm such an awesome BYOND coder (:P), I can rewrite the Move function to make the players move pixel by pixel instead, it'll just take a decent amount of coding. As for the screen, I'll need a little while to play with the commands so I know what I'm doing, then I'll post a screenshot here so you can see.

Also, my current work schedule is Monday, Tuesday and Friday, so I won't be able to do much during those days, and of course it'd be nice to have some time off otherwise. Still, I'll try and prioritize your project when I do get free time... *is typing this at 1AM*

Further note: I live in Australia. My Monday is like your Sunday night and Monday morning or something, and that works for the rest of the week too.

[Kine]

Alright, well I'll await that (pic). Other than that, the first thing I'll have you do is just the movement alone. I'm not sure which version you're using, though.

[Perpetr8r]

I'm using 3.5, but for your game I'm going to switch to 4.0 so that I can turn off the interfaces you don't want. The coding is exactly the same, at least. Anyway, I'm on my days off now so I have a little time to work on it. But first I have to sort out my girlfriend's birthday present - her birthday is tomorrow.

[Perpetr8r]

OK I'm double posting for the sole reason that I have something to show you and because of such I want to make sure it's seen.

I present to you: a very basic idea of what the game screen CAN look like without the text window or that command box. Ignore the weird graphics... I imported my character and some of the icons from my game onto it so that I could walk around and set up pixel-by-pixel movement (not done yet).

Now as a note, you can mess with the interface literally however you want, and it turns out it's actually very simple, as well as there being a massive tutorial on it too. You can change everything you see there, besides maybe that little BYOND symbol in the top left corner. Everything from the menus to the map size to the window color and size itself are customizeable. I simply filled the screen with the map because of a peculiar thing that BYOND does if the map isn't PERFECTLY the right size which causes some blurriness.

Anyway, you can add anything you want to that area: Text boxes, browser windows, stat panels, grids etc etc. I never really knew how powerful 4.0 was until I started messing with it, but it really gives lots of artistic freedom. The movement thing is what I'll be doing next, so sometime within the next few days I'll be able to demonstrate what it looks like. Also, with the graphics, you can obviously make them much more detailed than that. I'm just using my old clunky 16 bit sprites in 32 bit format XD

P.S. That's a 640 by 480 window. I set it so the player can't resize it or anything, but it can be as big or small as you want.

[Kine]

Eh, that symbol in the corner would've been there anyway... well, unless you can change icons (I think you could in Game Maker, for example). That's not a problem.

Alright, that's what I want the screen to look like.

I asked about the version, so that way we'd be on the same level. What I will/was gonna do was to place some of the graphics in the game already (since I can do the design elements), and then just send that your way via email. Then we just pass that file back and forth with more graphics as needed and code and such.

Of course, I'll have to both download version 4, as well as get used to the design part in general. I'm gonna work on it on this side very basically (like how to get a character to move facing the correct directions and all), using the default settings. Although I'd have the diagonal directional sprites imported, for me understanding this, I probably won't use them. I'll also try see if I can do key presses, maybe to run or something (which'll also cause the sprites to change). I just want to be sure I can do some of the basic stuff myself, if worse comes to worse, AND because I don't want to burden you with all the coding work, unless I cause more problems than alleviate.

[Perpetr8r]

Ok, before we go too far, let's make sure I can get pixel-by-pixel movement working as required. I've been playing with it and have had some interesting results, none of which have been what either of us have really wanted. While I still have a few avenues left unexplored in terms of coding possibilities, if I can't get it to work right it may throw a giant wrench into the BYOND works.

Mostly, my problem is that it won't animate when they move now, and even though I can force the animation, the next problem is they don't actually move so much as teleport. Anyway yeah, if you can wait a day or two I'll know for certain if I can get it to work right or not.

As for the rest, that sounds good. I'm commenting everything I code so that you might be able to understand it basically enough to mess with it, and furthermore I'll add things in such a way that you can use them without having to know too much about the actual code. (For example a screen message system that simply displays the text on-screen, and all you'd have to do is call that system from within your own code)

Anyway, I'm late for work now, so I'll get back to this later. I'll also show you what I've learned about the layout so far so you can play with it at that time as well.

As a final note, I can send you my current code which is VERY simple, and you can work with that if you want, so you have a base to begin from.

[Kine]

You'd think someone would've made an engine where all this nonsense is standard by now. >_>

[Perpetr8r]

Truly... anyway, just a status report for now. So far, I've managed to make a few things work better, at the cost of a few other things. At this point, there's nothing that I can offer that's working and doesn't look weird, but I've been asking around on the BYOND developer forums etc in order to get more info on the subject (the programming language is angry at me for abusing its inbuilt systems).

So far, they haven't been all that helpful, however, if I can just fix this animation thing I should have it all working nicely. I'm going to watch that intro vid you made again, just to make sure I have this set up right.

EDIT: Ok, I'll try not to get your hopes up, but it seems that I have a pretty decent idea of what I'm doing now and it MIGHT be working properly. Now, I need to sleep before I finish this, so 9 hours from now I'll be back up to finish turning the algorithm into actual code. But in any case, I have gotten fairly fluid movement AND pixel-by-pixel movement happening alongside each other, and now I'm working on making the speed work correctly. If I can do that, the rest is history. I swear, it'll be the only BYOND game to offer that level of fluidity if it works >_>

[Kine]

Now a good time to reiterate what I said in my last post. Well it WOULD be.

Well, I'll just wait on the side lines for the time being. I should go check RMXP forums again just to see if there's a source code for 'allow as many sprites as necessary, and change them as necessary' or something like that.

That is, Pigdey has a three frame walk (technically hopping, so I couldn't use frame 2 as frame 4), I don't want to put a filler frame as number 4 to screw things up. Tauros has a five frame walk. Charmander has like a 9 frame idle animation. Yeah, I said this before but I'm reiterating for the people who are looking in on this from the outside. So yeah, that's why I'd like to avoid this program if at all possible, not that the game itself should be any harder to put together. And I just haven't seen any source code (up to the point I made that video) that allows multiple sprites as well as compatibility with other co...

ARGH. Compatibilty. Yeah, THERE'S another problem.

Screw it I'll say it again, you'd think someone would've made an engine where all this nonsense is standard by now. I'm guessing these guys have never touched a non tile based not very lively 2D RPG. Doesn't make sense, whoever's developing these had to be old enough to play a Super Nintendo...

While I realize beggars can't be choosers, or rather, if you can't code it yourself you probably shouldn't complain, isn't it just a bit strange that it appears none of these RPG Engines' creators have even conceived the THOUGHT of making pixel-movement/eight directional/tag along partners/BLOODY SPRITE ADJUSTMENT, at least all in the same engine?

[Perpetr8r]

Compatibility? With what?

Anyway, after a ton of coding, I have succeeded in making a partially successful walking system, where the player doesn't move at a snail's pace and yet does pixel-by-pixel movement. Currently though, I broke the walking animation in order to make it work, and now I can't get it going again. Also, the camera movements are a TINY bit jerky, which I can't control, though I did my best to reduce the jerkiness. There's no collisions yet, so you can walk through things, and last but not least for some reason if you hold down the movement button the player does a sliding-on-ice effect and continues moving for a few steps AFTER you release it. I think it actually stacks subsequent calls to movement on top of each other, so it builds up like 5 or 6 extra movements in its little queue (which NATURALLY I can't touch) while you're holding the button down.

Freaking BYOND... Of course, I'm still messing with it, and I've dealt with more impossible-seeming problems in the past. My success so far has been heartening, and I may just be able to get you what you want. However, if by now you're utterly terrified of me torturing this system into working for you, let me know so I can stop messing with it.

[Kine]

By compatability, I mean how one person's code doesn't work with another's. Not that they should ALL work together. I think, however, the last time I used the pixel movement code for the PI test, it was still being worked on were it would allow other code compatibilty. That's why I should check up on it. The pixel movement source was HUGE, and had a lot of stuff (heck, most of the game's special features run on that one source). So if it's been upgraded, I might be able to find and throw in a sprite de-limiter. Of course, I need many other things like overworld enemies that chase you (pixel movement), respawning of enemies (because as of now, once you kill them, they're gone for good, which doesn't make for a good leveling up system), icy ground, dangerous ground, etc. And while I've seen things for each of them, I can't throw them in hodge-podge and expect it to work (too much conflictions).

Otherwise, without compatibility, you sort of have to code all the features of your particular game yourself, because then you know everything works with your system.

As for what you're doing, I guess it comes down to what's easier for you. Don't work yourself over if things don't seem to work out just right. I admit I'm concerned about the problems that'll come down the line, though, by messing with just the walking alone.

[Tré]

whoa!!this is great pokemon plus inbound!!! its great!!!

[Perpetr8r]

Rrrgh... For whatever reason, my version of BYOND has completely stopped working. I can't even get it working when I reinstall it, and it's kind of screwed me over at this point in time. I have acquired a pixel-movement system that works though... I just can't set it up because my BYOND crashes everytime I open it. *sigh*

[Kine]

Tre_Al: Hah... inbound, that makes me laugh. It's EarthBound.

So how's the engine coming along? Still crashing or what?

At this point I can't do anything, as I have to focus solely on getting material for this convention I'm going to, so... you can use this time (it'll be about a month) I guess to either figure everything out, or in the case that's just not going to work, look into possible other engines.

I'll still check back here to see what's going on, though. I'm just saying nothing's going to be worked on for this game from me until the weekend of May 16th is over.

[Perpetr8r]

Ah, it's good to know I have some time. Yesterday I finally, FINALLY, got my BYOND to work again. Over the next little while I'll be pretty busy myself, since I have to look after my brother and the house all on my own, but I'll begin putting the pixel movement engine into the game base and testing it etc. Anyway, I'll keep you posted here about what I've managed to get going and if you feel like sending me some icon files to add to the game then feel free; I'll put them in, provided I get the other system working.

Have fun at the con!

[Kine]

Aight, I'm back now. How's it workin' out?

I'll send some things to you when I get situated. I'll send the diagonal sprites soon, too. Make sure those can be displayed.

[Perpetr8r]

Well, I fell in a large puddle of real life, which sometimes and without warning tends to clog up my otherwise pristine computer time. Aside from my usual chef work, my mum went out for a week and a half and left the house to me to look after, then I had a big award ceremony for a games project last semester (which was a waste of time to attend) and then we got a notice for a house inspection so I spent several fun-filled days pulling weeds out of pavers.

Also there was a decent amount of slacking off in there, but since you're back now I should really get back to work... It helps that all the award ceremonies and chore piles are done with for now.

I have to say, I do love how simple RPG maker makes things, but I can see how it won't really do what you're hoping for without tons of programming - which makes it moot since BYOND involves programming anyway and is more versatile. I think it'd be nice for both of us if more programmers volunteered, else you're gonna end up waiting on me at some point or another (either from slow progress or just from me being too busy to create system X or Y straight away). Still, I'll do my best to keep things smooth for you and get stuff done on time.

I'll have a status report on the new movement system somewhere within the next few days. If it works or not, you'll know by the end of this week tops.

[Kine]

Sure enough, what you said is true. I've always felt that way, and on top of that, I really don't like putting all the work on one person. It just feels like a lame thing to do. =(

Well, considering no one else here volunteered, and I don't think anyone at Pokemon Elite responded at all, I'm going to try Starmen. I think EB fans are a bit more decent anyway (hey, before anyone get on me for that, well, observational wise... eh, just read that Nidorino comic collection I made. I don't feel like explaining it).

I figure someone might lend a hand, but first maybe I should have a bit more done. Like, say another town or so. Or even the first town.

On a more personal note, I hope it wasn't all too much for you to handle. Especially if you got the notice while your mom was away!

[Perpetr8r]

No, fortunately she got back a few days before it came, but that may have been worse. You should see the chore list she made!

Sheesh, people are lazy. I'm surprised there aren't more people willing to help out, especially when there's such a great artist on the other end of the game. I guess they are all off doing their own things?

Ugh anyway, I plan on putting this system together tomorrow (for me, which is Thursday). It's gonna be a big day 'cause there's STILL more chores to do and I randomly decided to make my own little card game yesterday at work and I'm trying to finish it now because it's such a fun idea.

Aw hell, lemme open this up now...

*sigh* Seems there are issues with it as well. I'm really at a loss for options now. See, the icons don't animate right now. Everything else more or less works, but it seems like a tradeoff between one and the other. I can't honestly see a way around this at this point, and I'm too tired to mess with the programming too much tonight.

Tomorrow I'll have another shot. If I get it working, great. If not, I think I'll have to concede defeat on this. Fingers crossed.

[Kine]

I think people just want more of the same. Consider how many Pokemon GS remakes you see...

Then again, I've always been the oddball when it comes to creating stuff. I usually do things I would have imagined someone else has done, but for some reason I always end up surprising people with my concepts (but why? Why am I supposedly the only one who imagines this stuff?).

Well, I'm gonna make an update possibly today that'll request more programmers. We'll see what happens down the line along with the post I'll make later.

[Perpetr8r]

Eh, I had a thought. Even if I do get the pixel movement thing going, it's going to cause more custom programming down the track since BYOND is expecting to work in tile-by-tile format. This means I'll have to code a new follow process to deal with Pokemon following you around and who-knows-what else. Bah.

Anyway, I don't think it matters because I've messed with the coding again and still no luck. Even if I do get it working, it's going to look jerky and kind of unprofessional, thanks to the way BYOND works. It's frustrating, but I think I have to throw in the towel on this one, unless of course you don't mind scrapping pixel-by-pixel movement, in which case I'm sure you would have mentioned that earlier.

Otherwise, yeah, I don't think it can be done. The movement itself is easy, but the way BYOND works is preventing it from animating properly, something I hadn't counted on. It's up to you what you'd like to do now; I'll wait to make any moves until you've made your decision.

[Kine]

Nope, I gotta have the pixel movement. I kinda figured that even if this was coded to work 100%, everything else from here would have to be redesigned.

Hmmm. I wonder what other programs exist... short of using C++. Well, not only will I ask for some extra help should I get it at Starmen.net, but I think I'll ALSO ask what engine makes RPGs play closest to EarthBound, in that perhaps they know something I don't.

I may just use RMXP, despite my reservations against it (sigh, it'd be all good if I could take the darn sprite limiter off, and every code was compatible with the rest). It would be that or Game Maker, considering those are the only two engine programs I have (barring BYOND, which I haven't made much prior use of, considering). I know sprites are "do as you please" in GM, but I dunno about it's capability to create RPGs so much, especially considering a lot of that stuff would have to be added in while at least RM has most of the silly functions standard.

I bet maps are also "do as you please" as far as placement goes in GM. Eh, I'm not to worried about tiles, I'm going to have each map made with a grid in Photoshop/Illustrator to align everything correctly, then chop it into pieces. From there I'll just stick everything together like a huge puzzle.

I suppose the single advantage to RM is that it's commonly used, so more people might be able to help. Of course, I dunno how that'll work. It is a Pokemon game (I say this with the idea that the brand carries a negative connotation), and considering I think you're the only person to offer any real assistance at a POKEMON forum (and a large one at that)... =\

Weelll, that's that. That list of things the game needs, I will need to copy it, so that way I can see what needs to be done.