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  #1    
Old November 23rd, 2007 (02:55 PM).
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I was comparing pokemon episodes from the first season to others and I noticed the first season was so MUCH MORE mature than the others. A 17 year old could actually sit through it and enjoy it. But over the years pokemon has become so childish.

I would love too see Pokemon turn into one of those more mature animes that you see on Cartoon Network's Adult Swim.
That would be so amazing!!!
Maybe when the actual kids show comes to an end they can re-new it or do a spin-off.
Its just a thought of mine that I think would be really cool!!!
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Old November 23rd, 2007 (03:05 PM).
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What constitutes a show being mature? Is it the presence of blood, violence or injuries, suspenseful situations, romance, death, or sexual themes? If by mature you mean no more glowing wings/beaks/characters and no more explosions and more serious, threatening villains, then I'm with you all the way.
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Old November 23rd, 2007 (03:06 PM).
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Erm..yes, the first season was more mature. But you have no idea what kind of audience pokemon attracts. Little sensitive kids..it's not ment to be mature...
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Old November 23rd, 2007 (07:00 PM). Edited November 23rd, 2007 by misty-slave09.
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I know its a kids show thats why I said maybe when its finally ends.
It was just something I thought I would share.. it will probably never happen anyway.

Quote originally posted by Tonya:
What constitutes a show being mature? Is it the presence of blood, violence or injuries, suspenseful situations, romance, death, or sexual themes? If by mature you mean no more glowing wings/beaks/characters and no more explosions and more serious, threatening villains, then I'm with you all the way.
That exactly what I mean .. LOL
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Old November 23rd, 2007 (07:05 PM).
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I think that as long as they use Special's plot line, then the anime would be all right. Yes, there is violence. Yes, there's some dark themes. But how long are we going to keep protecting little kids from the harshness of the world? And even so, if it wouldn't be too much trouble, then there could be two anime shows. One could continue to be the adventures of Ash in Happy Worldland, and the other could be more like Special.

No need for it to become gratuitously violent, with constant swearing, blood, and sexual themes. Just something with more of a plot, deeper characters, and less...perkiness.
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Old November 23rd, 2007 (07:11 PM).
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No explosions? Heresy!

Anyway, doubt it. Pokemon's tone is intended to be somewhat childish as it is a "coming-of-age" story. The reason it seems to be getting so childish is that Ash has gone through enough character development that he's ready to begin the "coming-of-age" process, but the series needs to be dragged out. Unlike other animes which can end, Pokemon is a marketing ploy for the games and products as well as a series so it cannot end until they do. The characters will seem more mature by the time the series ends, if ever. As for sexual themes, blood and gore, do we really need more of that? If you want that, you've got other series. Pokemon is not about blood, gore, etc. It would feel out of place. A more serious villain and suspense, on the other hand, could stand a greater part in the series, as well as a less-repetitive plot. Who knows? We have J now. Maybe that's the herald of gradual change.
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Old November 23rd, 2007 (09:08 PM).
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Pokemon doesn't need to be gory. The reason I didn't ever get into Bleach was because there was too much blood. I dont like gore
I like explosions though 8D

Pokemon does have mature-ish themes if you use your imagination though, look at Pokemopolis

Other than that, leave the poor anime alone! just because an anime is mature, doesn't mean it's better. Look at Inuyasha. Blood but loads of fillers and the majority of anime fans think it's crap
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Old November 23rd, 2007 (09:11 PM).
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Its all because Nintendo America is directed towards a younger audience ( 8-10 year olds )

On the flip side, In Japan Pokemon is Directed to Teenagers and even some adults
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Old November 24th, 2007 (12:05 AM).
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Guess what? Paul abuses his Pokémon by giving them extremely harsh training, as evidenced by the fact that he pushed Chimchar way beyond its limits. He also releases them for being weak. Is that not "mature" enough for you?
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Old November 24th, 2007 (12:14 AM).
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I think people who want the show to be presented in a more mature manner don't see clearly what the main anime is meant for. Little kids. If it were meant for older audiences, of course it would have some degree of blood, swearing, and the likes. And a more threatening team would be evident in it.

But who knows? That might actually happen in the near future, or far. It really depends on what the writers really decide on doing. Maybe if they get enough complaints about how lovey-dovey and sugarcoating the shows getting already. I mean seriously...it's quite growing to a point where even some little kids disregard the show.

No offense to anyone, but that's my opinion and view on things. It really bugs me how the anime is progressing. I realize it does have some things if you know what I mean. But still...
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Old November 25th, 2007 (08:38 AM).
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IMO I don't really think the first season was any "mature" then other seasons, of course there are episodes that stand out as a life/development changing episode for the characters, but this has always been so for the last 10 years.
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Old November 25th, 2007 (09:18 AM).
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I sort of agree, but I sort of disagree. The old episodes were more mature but boring, the old episodes were less mature but amusing. I would rather watch the newer episodes, besides when they changed the characters' voices, that was a thing I would never forgive them for...
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Old November 25th, 2007 (01:50 PM).
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Quote originally posted by misty-slave09:
I was comparing pokemon episodes from the first season to others and I noticed the first season was so MUCH MORE mature than the others. A 17 year old could actually sit through it and enjoy it. But over the years pokemon has become so childish.

I would love too see Pokemon turn into one of those more mature animes that you see on Cartoon Network's Adult Swim.
That would be so amazing!!!
Maybe when the actual kids show comes to an end they can re-new it or do a spin-off.
Its just a thought of mine that I think would be really cool!!!
Can you explain how the first series in anymore mature? Thanks.
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Old November 25th, 2007 (01:58 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Jorah:
Can you explain how the first series in anymore mature? Thanks.
I would really want to know that too. There are very dramatic explosions every time Team Rocket blasts off. (really)

Everything that was too mature would get censored anyway. (Beauty and the Beach)

Pokemon was never that mature to begin with. It was and always going to be a kids' show.
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Old November 25th, 2007 (02:23 PM).
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Quote originally posted by STEELIXMANIAC:
Guess what? Paul abuses his Pokémon by giving them extremely harsh training, as evidenced by the fact that he pushed Chimchar way beyond its limits. He also releases them for being weak. Is that not "mature" enough for you?
No, because Paul isn't presented as a human character- he's presented as a cardboard stereotype of a 'cold hearted jerk'. A mature show would have deep characters with real emotions, not the one-dimensional cutouts seen in the anime.

And hey, if all it took for a show to be mature is some adult content, then that means that we'd have to consider trash like Family Guy as quality entertainment. Hahaha.
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Old November 25th, 2007 (03:18 PM).
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Agreed, adding scene where blood is being spilling or limbs being chopped off isn't going to make Pokemon look more mature.
Getting rid of the utopia-ish world would be a better start. Good isn't always triumph over evil, setbacks happen etc etc. That's why I like J for being a non-comic relief villian.

Quote originally posted by airconditioning:
No, because Paul isn't presented as a human character- he's presented as a cardboard stereotype of a 'cold hearted jerk'. A mature show would have deep characters with real emotions, not the one-dimensional cutouts seen in the anime.
Come to think of it. Despite that Ash've been around for 10 years, we still has almost zero background on him.
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Old November 25th, 2007 (03:34 PM).
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Lol i was thinking that.but if you ask me i think pokemon diamond & pearl is alittle more mature .

But that would be cool seeing a pokemon cast razor leaf on someone and it chops their arm off. I would like to see some pokemon like that =D
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Old November 25th, 2007 (03:42 PM).
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Quote originally posted by ACC-M:
No explosions? Heresy!

Anyway, doubt it. Pokemon's tone is intended to be somewhat childish as it is a "coming-of-age" story. The reason it seems to be getting so childish is that Ash has gone through enough character development that he's ready to begin the "coming-of-age" process, but the series needs to be dragged out. Unlike other animes which can end, Pokemon is a marketing ploy for the games and products as well as a series so it cannot end until they do. The characters will seem more mature by the time the series ends, if ever. As for sexual themes, blood and gore, do we really need more of that? If you want that, you've got other series. Pokemon is not about blood, gore, etc. It would feel out of place. A more serious villain and suspense, on the other hand, could stand a greater part in the series, as well as a less-repetitive plot. Who knows? We have J now. Maybe that's the herald of gradual change.
*gets a headache*

Ugh... too... many... words... I think you have a good point... I can't tell...

But anyways, yes, they should have a more mature Pokemon spin-off. And yes, the first season was MUCH more mature.

Also...

a more mature Pokemon anime = a larger audience

But then again, the manga is sorta like that, isn't it? You know, more mature? I wouldn't know, but...
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Old November 26th, 2007 (12:21 AM).
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I wouldn't say mature, but it's definitely toned down from how it was.

The jokes are cornier, the fights are stupider, and also shorter. And they now put those squiggly lines on the eyes of Pokemon whenever one is KO'd, probably to tone down the violence of the battles. After all, they never really get Poisoned anymore.

The manga isn't really more mature (and it depends on which manga you mean). It just follows a different story arc from the Anime.
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Old November 26th, 2007 (12:50 PM).
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Quote originally posted by SBaby:
The manga isn't really more mature (and it depends on which manga you mean).
Yes they were. If we're talking about Special, the manga is much more mature- characters are deep, have real motivations, and undergo change as the story moves on. As for Electric Tale of Pikachu, its style of humor and art catered much more to older teens than the anime. Even then, it was still better than the anime.
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Old November 26th, 2007 (02:45 PM).
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Quote originally posted by SBaby:
I wouldn't say mature, but it's definitely toned down from how it was.

The jokes are cornier, the fights are stupider, and also shorter. And they now put those squiggly lines on the eyes of Pokemon whenever one is KO'd, probably to tone down the violence of the battles. After all, they never really get Poisoned anymore.
- The jokes have always been cheesy. In the Clefairy ep Ash was talking about how the Clefairy were doing the macarena. It being 90s humour makes it that much worse...Cow-terpie was cheesy too. Yeah, jokes have always been cheesy
- I don't know what you mean by stupid fight. You mean Team Rocket fights? I thought them losing to Caterpie was quite stupid. Caterpie was weaker than the just-hatched Pokemon that defeated Team Rocket in later eps.
- Normal battles seem about the same (excluding Metapod vs Metapod XD) gym battles are longer (the longest are usually contest battles) The Kanto gym battles were interupted and not very long except 2 or 3 of them. Gym battles are longer now because the episode is actually dedicated to the battle, rather than what has interupted Ash
- When *haven't* they used squiggly lines when a Pokemon has fainted...? Except when they have Xs which I only remmeber happening a few times
- I don't rememeber *any* episode where someone got poisoned. Ill, yeah, not poisoned. Which episode was it?

Quote originally posted by raichuchika:
And yes, the first season was MUCH more mature.
But how?

I sound like I hate the first series, but I don't. I think that people may just be looking at it through rose-tinted glass...
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Old November 27th, 2007 (10:05 PM). Edited November 28th, 2007 by SBaby.
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Quote originally posted by Jorah:
- The jokes have always been cheesy. In the Clefairy ep Ash was talking about how the Clefairy were doing the macarena. It being 90s humour makes it that much worse...Cow-terpie was cheesy too. Yeah, jokes have always been cheesy
- I don't know what you mean by stupid fight. You mean Team Rocket fights? I thought them losing to Caterpie was quite stupid. Caterpie was weaker than the just-hatched Pokemon that defeated Team Rocket in later eps.
- Normal battles seem about the same (excluding Metapod vs Metapod XD) gym battles are longer (the longest are usually contest battles) The Kanto gym battles were interupted and not very long except 2 or 3 of them. Gym battles are longer now because the episode is actually dedicated to the battle, rather than what has interupted Ash
- When *haven't* they used squiggly lines when a Pokemon has fainted...? Except when they have Xs which I only remmeber happening a few times
- I don't rememeber *any* episode where someone got poisoned. Ill, yeah, not poisoned. Which episode was it?



But how?

I sound like I hate the first series, but I don't. I think that people may just be looking at it through rose-tinted glass...
Jokes have gone from actually funny 4th-wall material to cheesy running gags that just aren't funny anymore. Ash may have mentioned the macarena ONE TIME, they may have parodied movies three or four times TOPS, but now, Team Rocket usually can't go twenty minutes without fantasizing about 'da boss'. And when they do, they change their speech. Why do I care? Because I loved how the show used to almost make fun of itself in the first season. It helped get my mind off the overly repetitive plot.

The fights have gotten stupider. First, they're shorter, probably because most now use 'stopping Team Rocket' as the central theme, rather than anything regarding Ash's progress to the next League. Second, they seem to be more deformed and cartoony than before. Even going so far as to repeatedly use 3-d effects and stock animation way more than in Kanto. Come to think of it, since when did they start actually 'taking tuns' shouting orders? Whatever happened to the days when they could just shout out several orders in succession and freaking blitz the opponent?

Let's see... They started using squiggly lines (the hypnotize lines, to be more specific) in the latter half of Kanto and have been using them ever since. In the beginning, they didn't really use them much at all.

Pikachu gets poisoned in the episode titled, 'Here Comes the Squirtle Squad'. And Charizard gets frozen in another episode. And I believe I may have seen another episode where a Pokemon gets set on fire. Not to mention Ash and Pikachu have died a couple times too. They seem to just not do that kind of thing anymore.

My theory is that they changed things because they wanted to tone down the violence. But it's just odd for Japan to even give one whit about the amount of violence in their cartoons.

It's like someone already said, the rivalry between Ash and Paul is about the only good thing in Sinnoh. If not for that, people would be chalking this up as 'just anothet Generation'. Admit it, you know it's true.
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Old November 27th, 2007 (10:22 PM).
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I agree that pokemon could do well with becoming more mature. I'd like some more serious character developement, and for the fights to be less cute and more like fights.

As a matter of fact, if anyone recalls, there was a silhouette of a Pinsir chopping a Metapod in half in one of the earlier episodes. If they did the more brutal attacks like that, it would be more realistic without getting graphic. I don't mean I want decapitation and such, but let's face it. A Scyther's scythes don't hit things, they cut things. If there was some blacked-out stabs, beam-penetrations, etc., it would do the series good. I don't want any death, but injury can lend to some tense moments and a better story. It's unnatural for pokes to just be fine after an intense fight.
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Old November 28th, 2007 (08:13 PM).
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Well, some of the episodes such as the Kyogre(sp?) and Groudon fight was pretty intense. :O Or the time with the Aerodactyl almost eating Ash? That was pretty intense. xD I prefer the first season a bit more, since it really works for his age. The new season is becoming more too kiddy for me. Such as the whole Pokemon Contests. o_o Turning Pokemon to become too cute. >:X
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Old November 29th, 2007 (08:44 AM).
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I also think thet the first season was more mature.

They did things that havent been shown again (probably becayse US censure of almost eveerything they consider inapropiate for kids), but i donth think the show has lost all the previous things it used to show.

It all depends on what you consider to be a mature teme for a show. If you refere to romance and such it still has some of that like it every seasson there is a love-hate interest betwen Satoshi(Ash) and the main female. As for more violence I dont think it need it but it would be good to see some injured pokemon aftern a good intense battle like it happened at the begining when pikachu almost died after they set out from Masara(Palet).

As for the contests i think they are a good distraction from the normal battles besides you get to see the attacks used in a more unique way by each trainer and not the same old move.

It would be nice if they made the show more mature and introduced more development and backgroung for the characters, I mean come on even the pokemon are geting their personalities developed (Aipom). Also it would be nice to see a time line cauze i find it quite dumb to keep a character that seems to have been traveling for around 4 years the same age as when the anime began.
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