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  #12326    
Old August 27th, 2009, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valentine View Post
You're missing my point. The point was that you were narrowing down your definitions to only one or the other and then saying that your definitions agreed with the page and what I was saying when both it and I were trying to tell you to think broader. But because this is a point I keep trying to restate, I'm just going to leave it at that.
I narrowed my definitions down to a three-paragraph post because it was a spur-of-the-moment issue that I put my two-cents into and people started to move on... I could have written 20 posts if I wanted, but it wasn't a big deal. It isn't a big deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valentine View Post
It wouldn't be the first time someone's done that in a debate with me, and all I'm saying is that it seems like that's what you're doing.
Well I'm not. I said what I meant, I continue to say what I mean, and in the end even if I was being weaselly, I'm still saying I'm agreeing with you... If that's the issue, are you claiming that I gave myself congratulation when I didn't deserve it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valentine View Post
Excuse me? The reason why I'm talking to you about it is because you said something that didn't sound right in my mind. You could have been anyone else, and I still would have pulled up your post and said the lengthier equivalent of, "WTF, mate?" So, please don't try to say, "OMG, you're ganging up on me."
Hey, you say I'm being weaselly. I say you're picking on me. A matter of perception, kid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valentine View Post
What? "Badly-worded" isn't saying "omg you can't write." It's saying, "That may not be what you meant, but it's what you said." I'm not calling you stupid or a bad writer. I'm saying that a possible misinterpretation of your initial post can't entirely be my fault. It's the fault of a post that says something other than what you're actually trying to say. I've called my own posts badly-worded on occasion because that's the simple definition of what happens to people on occasion.

Moreover, it's still on-topic because it's about writing, and it's not like it's a closed discussion if anyone else wants to pitch in anything. That and it's not the first time I've ever had a debate with someone about literature here, and I'm not actually insulting you. You're simply interpreting that I'm trying to do so.
Whether it was intentional or not, I'd rather you have called me an idiot to say my post was badly-worded. I try to make things clear, so if I haven't done the right thing with my words it's going to irk me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valentine View Post
That's not what you said earlier, which is my point. Your first post was narrowing things down too much, whether you meant to or not.
I was narrowing things down too much? Like I said before, I could have made a 20-paragraph post... I opted for three. I'm not going to write a thesis on the inherent and applied differences and similarities between literary elements, literary device, literary technique, and literary whatever.

I said what needed to be said and no one got an entirely wrong impression of what the terms mean.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valentine View Post
If you're my equal, don't play the victim card. It really ticks me off.
I'm not playing the victim card. I feel you're needlessly antagonizing me, and I don't like it. There are several ways you could have gone about disagreeing with me, but instead you blindsided me and started this whole thing.
  #12327    
Old August 27th, 2009, 10:23 AM
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  #12328    
Old August 27th, 2009, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redstar View Post
Hey, you say I'm being weaselly. I say you're picking on me. A matter of perception, kid
1. Don't call me a kid if you also call me an equal. I'm not insulted by it, but it's more or less an insult to you.
2. It's not actually a matter of perception if I keep motioning to proof and logical analysis of one of your posts, and you've pointed to something that isn't actually there. My tone may be annoyed, but it's always cynical in this thread, if you'd like to go back through my earlier posts here.

Quote:
Whether it was intentional or not, I'd rather you have called me an idiot to say my post was badly-worded.
Last I checked, idiot was a clear, personal insult. Badly-worded was constructive criticism about your actual post -- not even your actual writing style.

If you're going to be a writer, you're going to have to realize (not saying you already don't, although this discussion seems to imply it) that not everything you say is going to be straightforward because you're human. However, as a result, someone else is going to look at something that seems off and question it because it's the internet. You have to have the kind of skin that enables you to face the fact that what you say isn't always perfect and that you're going to have to explain, refine, or apologize for it later.

Also, you claim that you're a writer. That's great, but if you are, then post something. Then, I can decide about your actual writing style. I consider it to be separate from posts. I know you don't; I'm simply saying that I was, in no way, insinuating anything about your abilities as a writer so much as a conversationalist.

Quote:
I was narrowing things down too much? Like I said before, I could have made a 20-paragraph post... I opted for three. I'm not going to write a thesis on the inherent and applied differences and similarities between literary elements, literary device, literary technique, and literary whatever.
I'm not asking you to do so. I'm telling you that if you didn't mean what I say you meant in your first post, all you had to do was add a few lines and change the wording of the ones that are already there in order to clarify what you were saying.

Quote:
I said what needed to be said and no one got an entirely wrong impression of what the terms mean.
Because no one other than me actually responded to your post.

Quote:
I'm not playing the victim card. I feel you're needlessly antagonizing me, and I don't like it.
Which is the victim card because there's no proof that I am, considering it's not actually new. (Why any vets are thinking that it is beyond me.) It's just the first real time with you, and you're not really realizing that this isn't the first time I've had this kind of debate.
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Last edited by JX Valentine; August 27th, 2009 at 10:40 AM.
  #12329    
Old August 27th, 2009, 11:19 AM
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(For some reason I feel like I'm interrupting someone's dinner)

Sorry if this has been addressed before or if I'm in the wrong area. I'm new to this part of the forums and this thread is so huge as to be practically unnavigable.

How would everyone feel about a fic with original Pokemon? Assuming the fic is well-written and the new Pokemon sufficiently fleshed out would it still be too awkward or otherwise unappealing to read? You can guess why I ask.
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  #12330    
Old August 27th, 2009, 11:19 AM
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When writing using an area/region that is canon, do you try to stick true to the original design or do you modify the region or town to suit your literary needs?
Nope. Well, not yet, anyways. I like to keep the settings as close to canon as possible, though I do have an idea for Celadon City and that means I’m going to really alter it later. Regions, on the other hand, I don’t touch unless I want to randomly add a town or something (which I would just take from the anime).

EDIT:
Quote:
How would everyone feel about a fic with original Pokemon? Assuming the fic is well-written and the new Pokemon sufficiently fleshed out would it still be too awkward or otherwise unappealing to read? You can guess why I ask.
It really depends on someone’s opinion. Some people like reading about original Pokemon and some just really dislike it for some reason. I’d say go for it if the Pokemon are fleshed out.
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  #12331    
Old August 27th, 2009, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarf View Post
(For some reason I feel like I'm interrupting someone's dinner)

Sorry if this has been addressed before or if I'm in the wrong area. I'm new to this part of the forums and this thread is so huge as to be practically unnavigable.

How would everyone feel about a fic with original Pokemon? Assuming the fic is well-written and the new Pokemon sufficiently fleshed out would it still be too awkward or otherwise unappealing to read? You can guess why I ask.
[/QUOTE]

You're talking about Kanto, 150 originaL? I'd say that would work, as long as like you said it was well written and fleshed out, you'd probably want to reveal more of what your thoughts are on your own fic idea though.

When writing using an area/region that is canon, do you try to stick true to the original design or do you modify the region or town to suit your literary needs?

Well, in terms of the whole island, I do tweak perhaps an area or two, but I'd keep the destination the same. Like oh route 100 to Bob's house, or that special cave. I suppose that would be somewhat similar to the anime anyway.
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  #12332    
Old August 27th, 2009, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
You're talking about Kanto, 150 originaL? I'd say that would work, as long as like you said it was well written and fleshed out, you'd probably want to reveal more of what your thoughts are on your own fic idea though.
Ah, sorry, not one of the original Pokemon, but a completely new, home-made Pokemon of my own creation. Sorry for the mix-up.

The fic idea isn't particularly special, an emotionally lost young person is given a Pokemon by a shady character who wants to corrupt her and as she wises up she has to deal with this guy as well as her estranged friends who still think she's going down the wrong path. I know it could work without adding new Pokemon, but if there's no good reason stopping me I don't see why I shouldn't.
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  #12333    
Old August 27th, 2009, 11:51 AM
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Holy crap, I wrote a lenghty reply and now it's all gone. I hate it when this happens!

First of all, hi Jax! I've been pretty absent myself lately, so I don't have the slightest idea of what's going on... But I missed you! Glad to see you're alive and well.

How would everyone feel about a fic with original Pokemon? Assuming the fic is well-written and the new Pokemon sufficiently fleshed out would it still be too awkward or otherwise unappealing to read?

I've seen plenty of fics with made-up Pokémon, if that's what you mean, but I've never read any, so I can't really say. My advice to you, however, is to go for it. If you feel that you can plan your Pokémon sufficiently and then describe them in a way that's neither inadequate nor interrupts the flow of the story, then sure, go for it. You just have to understand that it's going to be quite a challenge compared to writing with the Pokémon already described in the canon. Also, you should never resort to simply showing your readers pictures of the original Pokémon.

Then again, writing is always a challenge in its own right... If you don't mind the additional difficulties, then you should definitely go for it. Don't ask if people are going to like it, make them like it! That's how it should be done ^-^

When writing using an area/region that is canon, do you try to stick true to the original design or do you modify the region or town to suit your literary needs?

I rarely use any canon region, but I definitely wouldn't modify it. Okay, well, when going by game canon I would definitely have more houses in a village than three, but that's not really modifying the region, is it? In my opinion, you shouldn't modify what already excists (i.e. Goldenrod City can't suddenly move to Sinnoh or change its place in Johto), but you can find the holes the canon has and slip through them in a discreet way. You know, there could be a hidden temple in the forests of Sinnoh, but it would be a bit iffy to have a new city suddenly spawn out of nowhere.

But that's just my opinion.
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  #12334    
Old August 27th, 2009, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarf View Post
Ah, sorry, not one of the original Pokemon, but a completely new, home-made Pokemon of my own creation. Sorry for the mix-up.

The fic idea isn't particularly special, an emotionally lost young person is given a Pokemon by a shady character who wants to corrupt her and as she wises up she has to deal with this guy as well as her estranged friends who still think she's going down the wrong path. I know it could work without adding new Pokemon, but if there's no good reason stopping me I don't see why I shouldn't.
Ah I see. No that does work. People commonly use new Pokemon (aka Fakemon), as well as new regions.

So at one point it is evident to her friends that she is going down the wrong path? (would be the only question I have for the fic idea), otherwise it sounds like it does have potential.
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  #12335    
Old August 27th, 2009, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurincha View Post
If you don't mind the additional difficulties, then you should definitely go for it. Don't ask if people are going to like it, make them like it! That's how it should be done ^-^
My new personal mantra.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feign View Post
Ah I see. No that does work. People commonly use new Pokemon (aka Fakemon), as well as new regions.

So at one point it is evident to her friends that she is going down the wrong path? (would be the only question I have for the fic idea), otherwise it sounds like it does have potential.
Well, I seem to have my answer. Thanks. And to answer your question, the protagonist becomes alienated once she gets that Pokemon and the friends learn where she got it.
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  #12336    
Old August 27th, 2009, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valentine View Post
1. Don't call me a kid if you also call me an equal. I'm not insulted by it, but it's more or less an insult to you.
2. It's not actually a matter of perception if I keep motioning to proof and logical analysis of one of your posts, and you've pointed to something that isn't actually there. My tone may be annoyed, but it's always cynical in this thread, if you'd like to go back through my earlier posts here.
I called you a 'kid' because I was attempting to make the conversation more light and personal to overcome the animosity between us. I could have opted for my original choice of 'babe', if you prefer.

Repeatedly stating that I'm lying and that I didn't say what I said isn't logical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valentine View Post
Last I checked, idiot was a clear, personal insult. Badly-worded was constructive criticism about your actual post -- not even your actual writing style.

If you're going to be a writer, you're going to have to realize (not saying you already don't, although this discussion seems to imply it) that not everything you say is going to be straightforward because you're human. However, as a result, someone else is going to look at something that seems off and question it because it's the internet. You have to have the kind of skin that enables you to face the fact that what you say isn't always perfect and that you're going to have to explain, refine, or apologize for it later.

Also, you claim that you're a writer. That's great, but if you are, then post something. Then, I can decide about your actual writing style. I consider it to be separate from posts. I know you don't; I'm simply saying that I was, in no way, insinuating anything about your abilities as a writer so much as a conversationalist.
You may have been offering constructive criticism, but from the very subject I can tell you weren't. You implied that the fault was entirely on me, that I was unclear and I should acknowledge that. You didn't suggest the possibility that maybe you simply misinterpreted or didn't understand my post. If it's all my fault, then it's an insult.

Wow, really? I "claim" I'm a writer? I don't see why I should have to present credentials of my past and present work to prove I have relevant input. But if it pleases you, I have been working on a chapter-by-chapter original trainer fic that I plan on posting sometime soon, and participated in the Small Writing Contest which should be posted within two weeks. You're welcome to offer constructive criticism and thoughts then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valentine View Post
I'm not asking you to do so. I'm telling you that if you didn't mean what I say you meant in your first post, all you had to do was add a few lines and change the wording of the ones that are already there in order to clarify what you were saying.
You say "if [I] didn't mean what [you] say [I] meant...", I should edit my post. Well, I didn't mean at all what you say I meant, I meant what I meant.

I stand by my original post and shouldn't have to edit it. I've clarified myself many times over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valentine View Post
Because no one other than me actually responded to your post.
Fine. For anyone that was involved in that discussion, was my post in the least bit helpful? Or was it just confusing? And after this conversation between Val and me, has your opinion changed in either direction? You're welcome to speak for yourself, Val, but don't speak for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valentine View Post
Which is the victim card because there's no proof that I am, considering it's not actually new. (Why any vets are thinking that it is beyond me.) It's just the first real time with you, and you're not really realizing that this isn't the first time I've had this kind of debate.
A feeling is a feeling. I don't need proof to feel like you're antagonizing me.

You're welcome to your personality. You're welcome to be cynical and debate. But when you do so about something that was never a topic of contention, I can only assume you're trolling and simply looking for something to argue over. I'd be glad to participate in discussions that warrant it and would be more than one-sided, but this simply isn't one of them.

I'm done. I've said my piece and anyone can take from it what they want, and the same towards your comments. I can only hope that in the future our discussions are more mutually enjoyable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarf View Post
How would everyone feel about a fic with original Pokemon? Assuming the fic is well-written and the new Pokemon sufficiently fleshed out would it still be too awkward or otherwise unappealing to read? You can guess why I ask.
I'd like that. Original Pokemon have a certain nostalgia-factor to them, since most people had that hobby when they were younger. I would love to get a glimpse into your personal take on Pocket Monsters, and a fic is the best way to go about doing that.
  #12337    
Old August 27th, 2009, 02:15 PM
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Well, I picked a "Bad Day" to sleep late. Missed spending time with Awesome! ;;

Now to drag things up again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrike Flamestar View Post
I'm no mod but I'm sure I'm channeling Astinus here when I say that if you must debate, could you perhaps do it someplace else? The lounge is supposed to be a happy place! Happy and full of crazy, fun times! Debating is not happy. It is ugly. And bad. And evil.
The Lounge isn't always happy fun times. Sorry, but it's not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizan Nix Zamnie View Post
Basically [not trying to minimod], make peace or bring it to the VM arena
That is mini-modding.

And yeah, you know, I said this earlier this month. I'm fine with people posting in the Lounge. Just as long as it pertains to writing, I don't care if people talk about what size underwear their characters wear, or whether the correct definition of a literary term is used. And the latter, which is seen here, is on-topic with what the Lounge is about.

Now, guys, could you just remember one thing? I'm the moderator. I have the shiny badge that says "Moderator" on it, the name that goes with it, and the power. I've been entrusted by the higher staff to uphold this section's rules, and so I should know what I'm talking about when I say it. And so Val's right when if it ain't Ze Great Astinus with her mod stick saying "Stop posting", she ain't gotta listen. Because, yeah, I have the powers behind me to prove that I'm the one she (and everyone) has gotta listen to. So you can say "Stop posting!" and she's fine unless I say "Stop posting."

Now, this argument ain't going anywhere, so it's best just to stop before repetition happens again.

Will answer bold topics later.
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  #12338    
Old August 27th, 2009, 02:19 PM
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Duly noted, Astinus. The argument may have dragged on longer than it needed, but I feel I stopped myself (and hopefully Val will in turn) at a decent time. I just hope it wasn't entirely unbecoming of a new regular. =D
  #12339    
Old August 27th, 2009, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redstar View Post
(and hopefully Val will in turn)
I've taken it to VMs because, frankly, now I'm fully offended. That and it's not on topic anymore.

But hello to the newbie. Don't worry. I only bite if I think you look tasty. Your fic looks interesting, and there's really nothing stopping you from using fakemon, as Feign and others had said. Just describe it with enough detail to let the reader figure out what it is, and you're good to go.
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Last edited by JX Valentine; August 27th, 2009 at 02:47 PM.
  #12340    
Old August 27th, 2009, 02:58 PM
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How would everyone feel about a fic with original Pokemon? Assuming the fic is well-written and the new Pokemon sufficiently fleshed out would it still be too awkward or otherwise unappealing to read?
I'm fine with a fic with original Pokémon. They must be described in enough detail, though. Although you can get away with brief descriptions of canonical Pokémon, it's far more difficult to do it with original ones, because the reader doesn't already know what they look like. I think, though, a fic with entirely original Pokémon would be difficult to swallow, personally, and one with original and canonical ones weaved in together would probably be better. The Quest for the Legends does this well, I think.
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  #12341    
Old August 27th, 2009, 03:19 PM
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How would everyone feel about a fic with original Pokemon? Assuming the fic is well-written and the new Pokemon sufficiently fleshed out would it still be too awkward or otherwise unappealing to read?
I don't mind Fakemon and sometimes they can be very fun to read. However, I prefer to read about canon Pokemon since I'm aware of them already. With Fakemon, I'm not exactly sure of their appearance. Even when the writer describes their appearance well, it might vary from person to person, unlike the canon Pokemon where the designs of them are already set in stone and everyone sees them. Also, not sure about their living habits, their attacks, their types, etc. True, it might come naturally during the story, but you probably would have to put the info on the Pokmeon throughout the story, unlike the canon ones where we already know the attacks they can learn and such.
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  #12342    
Old August 27th, 2009, 03:54 PM
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How would everyone feel about a fic with original Pokemon? Assuming the fic is well-written and the new Pokemon sufficiently fleshed out would it still be too awkward or otherwise unappealing to read?

Here's my take on fakemon. If there's already a pokémon that would suit your needs, use it. If there absolutely positively isn't (the fact that there is no dolphin pokémon readily springs to mind), then I'm cool with fakemon.

The thing is, fakemon are a lot harder for a reader to get acquainted with and tougher for a writer to implement. Plus, you're writing pokémon fanfiction. What's the point if you're not using pokémon? You might as well write a fully original story. Just keep those things in mind while you go.
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  #12343    
Old August 27th, 2009, 04:20 PM
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Sorry if I was out of line or anything Astinus. It's just that Thursday is the worst day of the week for me because from 9:30 in the morning to 7 in the evening I'm pretty much off at either class or work, except for about an hour between my last class and work, and forty minutes between the second and third (last) class. So when I'm on that hour break and want to relax and stuff and then see all that stuff going on it kind of grates on me a bit. Especially since after years of drama at that chat room I "admin" (IE, sit back and do nothing) at I've sort of become an internet hippie or something who hates anything that even remotely resembles an argument or drama.

I guess I just need a better place to go to relax. <_<

And I know the internet and this forum and this thread aren't meant to be happy but they should! And I'll be damned if I don't try to make it so! *Skips off throwing glitter on everyone*

EDIT: How many bold topics have I ignored in a row now? Whenever I post lately I'm too tired to sit down and type out a long reply answering them... I'll get back on them eventually, not as if anyone cares!
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  #12344    
Old August 27th, 2009, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astinus
That is mini-modding.
Okay then, my sincerest apologies. That is not sarcasm by the way. Just if you thought it was.

Now back to normal FFL activity.

How would everyone feel about a fic with original Pokemon? Assuming the fic is well-written and the new Pokemon sufficiently fleshed out would it still be too awkward or otherwise unappealing to read?
I don't really care if it's fakemon or not as long as the fic is appealing then I would read it. The fic I'm writing now could be considered semi-fakemon but not entirely because it contains a person fused to a Groudon[which is an original Pokemon] which means it is a semi-fakemon.

On the topic of fakemon, I'm comfortable with it as long as it's explained in detail as most non-anon characters are...
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Old August 28th, 2009, 02:42 AM
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txteclipse
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And I know the internet and this forum and this thread aren't meant to be happy but they should! And I'll be damned if I don't try to make it so! *Skips off throwing glitter on everyone*
Pbfffffglitterupnoseahhh! That's what you get for waking up in Vegas!

Okay guys, I'm having some trouble right now with one of my villains. He gets royally owned in the chapter I'm writing, his body burned to the point that he's near-death. In order to save himself, he must merge with the physical embodiment of darkness, which turns him into this kind of ghost/wraith/thing. My problem is that I can't decide what kind of person I want him to be after this. Will he become a tormented soul that has nothing but bitterness and a cold, hard-edged blade for the world that left him in this state? Or maybe he should realize as he lays dying that what he truly desires is redemption, only to learn that keeping himself alive means he must desert that commodity? Perhaps he should simply go insane, or be so consumed by darkness that he loses his will entirely, becoming nothing but a shell controlled by the rage, hatred, and sorrow roiling inside him?

I'm really stuck with this, and it's kind of driving me crazy. So I'd like to ask if any of those ideas strike anyone's fancy above the others? This guy becomes the main villain down the road, more or less, so he needs to be really evil while still being complicated and even pitiable, if possible. If it helps at all, he has no material possessions and nothing left to live for, pretty much, except perhaps revenge against another character for killing his pokemon.
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Old August 28th, 2009, 02:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txteclipse View Post
Pbfffffglitterupnoseahhh! That's what you get for waking up in Vegas!

Okay guys, I'm having some trouble right now with one of my villains. He gets royally owned in the chapter I'm writing, his body burned to the point that he's near-death. In order to save himself, he must merge with the physical embodiment of darkness, which turns him into this kind of ghost/wraith/thing. My problem is that I can't decide what kind of person I want him to be after this. Will he become a tormented soul that has nothing but bitterness and a cold, hard-edged blade for the world that left him in this state? Or maybe he should realize as he lays dying that what he truly desires is redemption, only to learn that keeping himself alive means he must desert that commodity? Perhaps he should simply go insane, or be so consumed by darkness that he loses his will entirely, becoming nothing but a shell controlled by the rage, hatred, and sorrow roiling inside him?

I'm really stuck with this, and it's kind of driving me crazy. So I'd like to ask if any of those ideas strike anyone's fancy above the others? This guy becomes the main villain down the road, more or less, so he needs to be really evil while still being complicated and even pitiable, if possible. If it helps at all, he has no material possessions and nothing left to live for, pretty much, except perhaps revenge against another character for killing his pokemon.
The choices are clear

1.A tormented soul that has nothing but bitterness and a cold, hard-edged blade for the world that left him in this state.

2. He should realize as he lays dying that what he truly desires is redemption, only to learn that keeping himself alive means he must desert that commodity.

3. He should simply go insane, or be so consumed by darkness that he loses his will entirely, becoming nothing but a shell controlled by the rage, hatred, and sorrow roiling inside him.

I just had to organize it. *shot*

For me, the second choice would seem like the path that most writers tend to use when it comes to this kind of think. Although, I kind of like the third option because frankly, what's better than a killing machine? Number one however, seems a bit too soft in comparison with number three.

Bottom-line I'd go with number three. I don't know about everyone else though. The character that you're aiming or reminds of Lord Voldemort to a certain extent. I think that the realization of redemption should come after he reaches his goals and then he realizes that there's nothing left to live for or something along those lines.
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  #12347    
Old August 28th, 2009, 02:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txteclipse
Okay guys, I'm having some trouble right now with one of my villains. He gets royally owned in the chapter I'm writing, his body burned to the point that he's near-death. In order to save himself, he must merge with the physical embodiment of darkness, which turns him into this kind of ghost/wraith/thing. My problem is that I can't decide what kind of person I want him to be after this. Will he become a tormented soul that has nothing but bitterness and a cold, hard-edged blade for the world that left him in this state? Or maybe he should realize as he lays dying that what he truly desires is redemption, only to learn that keeping himself alive means he must desert that commodity? Perhaps he should simply go insane, or be so consumed by darkness that he loses his will entirely, becoming nothing but a shell controlled by the rage, hatred, and sorrow roiling inside him?

I'm really stuck with this, and it's kind of driving me crazy. So I'd like to ask if any of those ideas strike anyone's fancy above the others? This guy becomes the main villain down the road, more or less, so he needs to be really evil while still being complicated and even pitiable, if possible. If it helps at all, he has no material possessions and nothing left to live for, pretty much, except perhaps revenge against another character for killing his pokemon.
Admittedly, I'm unfamiliar with your story, and I could only tell you what I would do in such a situation, so it's possible that it won't mesh with your writing style at all.

What I would do is have him become evil. Monstrously, relentlessly evil. Strip him of all humanity, at least initially. Take his goals, and magnify his desire for them tenfold, and his ruthlessness a hundred fold. After all, it is highly plausible as he merges with darkness itself.

And then have him begin the learning process again. Only now that he is true, pure evil, can he understand that what he does is wrong. Before he could perhaps have rationalised his actions, but now he cannot. And here comes the internal conflict: the human part of him is redeemed, but the darkness part of him mostly overwhelms this. From this, you can have a pitiable villain, as he has little control over his actions, but still someone that will stop at nothing (except for the occasional time when perhaps his humanity overpowers the darkness) to stop/destroy the protagonist.
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Old August 28th, 2009, 03:17 AM
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Originally Posted by txteclipse View Post
Pbfffffglitterupnoseahhh! That's what you get for waking up in Vegas!

Okay guys, I'm having some trouble right now with one of my villains. He gets royally owned in the chapter I'm writing, his body burned to the point that he's near-death. In order to save himself, he must merge with the physical embodiment of darkness, which turns him into this kind of ghost/wraith/thing. My problem is that I can't decide what kind of person I want him to be after this. Will he become a tormented soul that has nothing but bitterness and a cold, hard-edged blade for the world that left him in this state? Or maybe he should realize as he lays dying that what he truly desires is redemption, only to learn that keeping himself alive means he must desert that commodity? Perhaps he should simply go insane, or be so consumed by darkness that he loses his will entirely, becoming nothing but a shell controlled by the rage, hatred, and sorrow roiling inside him?

I'm really stuck with this, and it's kind of driving me crazy. So I'd like to ask if any of those ideas strike anyone's fancy above the others? This guy becomes the main villain down the road, more or less, so he needs to be really evil while still being complicated and even pitiable, if possible. If it helps at all, he has no material possessions and nothing left to live for, pretty much, except perhaps revenge against another character for killing his pokemon.
I always enjoyed villains who had redeemable qualities and who waver between those and nastier ones, kind of like a drug addict trying to get clean. It keeps me guessing as to whether he'll be a reformed villain or something even worse. A villain who is just plain evil or crazy (at least initially, he can become pure evil as long as we can see the change) is boring. There's got to be something human inside that makes us relate, if ever so slightly, to him so that we can be thoroughly horrified later that someone with a little humanity in him could do something so dastardly.
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Old August 28th, 2009, 07:53 AM
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I would go pretty much with a mixture of #2 and #3. You said you want to have him evil but at the same time redeemable qualities, right? #3 sounds like that is the way he should go instead of being bitter with the world. #2 could show some human qualities in him and that he does want to redeem himself.

So yeah, like Scarf said. Would be interesting to see him go between #2 and #3.
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Old August 28th, 2009, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txteclipse View Post
Pbfffffglitterupnoseahhh! That's what you get for waking up in Vegas!

Okay guys, I'm having some trouble right now with one of my villains. He gets royally owned in the chapter I'm writing, his body burned to the point that he's near-death. In order to save himself, he must merge with the physical embodiment of darkness, which turns him into this kind of ghost/wraith/thing. My problem is that I can't decide what kind of person I want him to be after this. Will he become a tormented soul that has nothing but bitterness and a cold, hard-edged blade for the world that left him in this state? Or maybe he should realize as he lays dying that what he truly desires is redemption, only to learn that keeping himself alive means he must desert that commodity? Perhaps he should simply go insane, or be so consumed by darkness that he loses his will entirely, becoming nothing but a shell controlled by the rage, hatred, and sorrow roiling inside him?

I'm really stuck with this, and it's kind of driving me crazy. So I'd like to ask if any of those ideas strike anyone's fancy above the others? This guy becomes the main villain down the road, more or less, so he needs to be really evil while still being complicated and even pitiable, if possible. If it helps at all, he has no material possessions and nothing left to live for, pretty much, except perhaps revenge against another character for killing his pokemon.
Because it has to do with shadows a bit, I liked the last one, namely that he loses his will entirely. However if you find him strong enough, then you could have him actually know what he is doing etc.
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