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  #12451    
Old September 1st, 2009 (03:11 PM).
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Yeah, a chapter depends on the plot focused and such, not length. Sure, straight to the point is good, but sometimes it might take more steps to get the point across. If you don't at least expand on certain scenes, the chapter might feel rushed. I know since I have one shots over thirty pages and I need all the scenes and explanations I can get.
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  #12452    
Old September 1st, 2009 (03:12 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Citrinin:
I don't think that's entirely fair, to dismiss long chapters in such a blanket manner. While I myself generally prefer short chapters, long chapters can still be quite effective. :s
I'm not saying long chapters are entirely bad, but I've never read a chapter over 15 pages that didn't bore me, no matter how much it excited me.

As I said, writing is all about conveying a message and getting a point across. If you're writing 30+ page chapters than I have to wonder what your priorities are and if you're writing things that could better be left out. But then again it all comes down to style, and maybe you really do have a lot of things to say that needs such a long chapter to express.

EDIT, add:
Quote originally posted by Bay:
Yeah, a chapter depends on the plot focused and such, not length. Sure, straight to the point is good, but sometimes it might take more steps to get the point across. If you don't at least expand on certain scenes, the chapter might feel rushed. I know since I have one shots over thirty pages and I need all the scenes and explanations I can get.
By "get to the point", I don't mean "Things get done as fast as possible", I'm saying don't waste your time on needless narration and dialogue. Length isn't necessarily important; if you get the job done and it happened to be 3 pages or 50, then it doesn't matter. My point is generally some writers can be very bloated and pretentious in their writing and things get in that really shouldn't be.
  #12453    
Old September 1st, 2009 (03:17 PM).
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OK, then. I misunderstood: I thought you were saying all long chapters are bad. Personally, I have to judge each chapter on its merits before coming to a conclusion: with a poor writer, perhaps they could have left stuff out of a 30-page chapter, or their description might have been far too waffly. But if a writer can keep a reader compelled throughout the thirty pages of a chapter (admittedly a daunting task), then I see no problem.
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  #12454    
Old September 1st, 2009 (03:21 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Citrinin:
OK, then. I misunderstood: I thought you were saying all long chapters are bad. Personally, I have to judge each chapter on its merits before coming to a conclusion: with a poor writer, perhaps they could have left stuff out of a 30-page chapter, or their description might have been far too waffly. But if a writer can keep a reader compelled throughout the thirty pages of a chapter (admittedly a daunting task), then I see no problem.
Right. It also comes down to readers' taste; some readers prefer different forms of books to read, and the writer should cater to the right group.

I enjoy reading, and don't mind it at all, but long chapters just irritate me. No matter how much I enjoy the book and I'm excitedly reading page-by-page, I still want a 'break'. I like having chapter breaks to stop and close my eyes, thinking about what I just read and taking it all in. Sometimes I just want a good place to stop reading if I need to do something else. So, generally, short-to-fair-lengthed chapters are best. If you can hold the reader's attention and still include only what's necessary in a long chapter, then by all means, do it. But consider the different ways you could go about it that may entice a broader audience.
  #12455    
Old September 1st, 2009 (03:30 PM).
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What's the current wordcount on your active chaptered fics?

Compared to many other fanficers (especially Asty and Shrike), my stuff is awfully short. My main fic, at 12 "chapters" so far, has about 18,500 words. Some of them are around 3,000 words long, while a few are less than 1,000. Gary Stu, on the other hand, finished with eight chapters at 12,000 words. My FFC entries were 900 and 3,000 words, and my entry to the get-together contest was 1,350. Writing for volume certainly isn't my strong point, I usually just cut to the chase.
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  #12456    
Old September 1st, 2009 (03:31 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Redstar:
By "get to the point", I don't mean "Things get done as fast as possible", I'm saying don't waste your time on needless narration and dialogue. Length isn't necessarily important; if you get the job done and it happened to be 3 pages or 50, then it doesn't matter. My point is generally some writers can be very bloated and pretentious in their writing and things get in that really shouldn't be.
Yeah, true. However, I still find it offending you would ask that to Astinus even when she didn't post that chapter here yet. Like you said, she might need the 30 pages to get the job done. Also, because you didn't read it, you shouldn't say it's bloated and pretentious already.
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  #12457    
Old September 1st, 2009 (03:37 PM). Edited September 1st, 2009 by Redstar.
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Quote originally posted by Bay:
Yeah, true. However, I still find it offending you would ask that to Astinus even when she didn't post that chapter here yet. Like you said, she might need the 30 pages to get the job done. Also, because you didn't read it, you shouldn't say it's bloated and pretentious already.
I wasn't saying her work was bloated and pretentious, that just most is... And my original post wasn't even specifically directed at her, just at chapters that long in general. Citrinin bringing it up was just my segue into a general discussion, with no specific opinion on Astinus or her work in particular (which I'm not acquainted with, so I wont speak on it).
  #12458    
Old September 1st, 2009 (03:41 PM).
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My mistake then. Just a bit "woah" when you mention your take on long chapters. ;
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  #12459    
Old September 1st, 2009 (03:46 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Bay:
My mistake then. Just a bit "woah" when you mention your take on long chapters. ;
I used to write these incredibly long narrative bits that described absolutely nothing because I thought I was supposed to be long. My style is almost entirely "to the point" now, and my paragraphs can be as short as one sentence or even one word. Probably dropping one extreme for another, I don't know, but I suppose the judges will be able to say how my writing has turned out.
  #12460    
Old September 1st, 2009 (05:18 PM).
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Sometimes chapters have a lot of ground to cover, or flip-flop between characters a lot. If you have tons of plot threads running all over the place, and you need a few pages for each, that's a lot of pages. Kind of like the Chronicles, but I'm only up to three major plot threads at the moment, so my chapters probably won't get huge for a while still.
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  #12461    
Old September 1st, 2009 (05:43 PM).
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Plot threads, omai.

I've personally never used them before in my stories, fanfiction or otherwise, but having one or two sub-plots running on a parallel track to the main one sounds like an absolutely awesome idea. C: I ought to try it sometime. Which brings up a question:

Have you ever implemented plot threads/sub-plots/mini-arcs/whatever in your stories? If they're not spoileriffic and you don't mind sharing, what were they?

Also, Magneton Man is hard to beat in Platinum. >C
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  #12462    
Old September 1st, 2009 (05:47 PM).
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Have you ever implemented plot threads/sub-plots/mini-arcs/whatever in your stories? If they're not spoileriffic and you don't mind sharing, what were they?
Yes - I like to have multiple arcs converge into one. At the moment, there are a few developing arcs that have no (or little) seeming connection, but by the end, they'll all come together. 8D
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  #12463    
Old September 1st, 2009 (05:50 PM). Edited September 1st, 2009 by Redstar.
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Have you ever implemented plot threads/sub-plots/mini-arcs/whatever in your stories? If they're not spoileriffic and you don't mind sharing, what were they?
Aren't plot-threads inherent in stories? I should think without one, it wouldn't be a story.
  #12464    
Old September 1st, 2009 (06:02 PM).
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I have an announcement!

People in general, prepare to despair! I have posted the Fanfiction Lounge *bold topics* Index!

A bit later than planned, due to formatting and trying to check more stuff, but already done. There's no turn back now, we are all exposed.

The thread is comprised of three indexes: "general topics", "lounge insanity" and "lounge announcements". The lists are still inciomplete (I'm sure of it) but now that the thread has been posted I'll be able to better follow other bold topics and double-check the links. Who knows, someone may find amusement that last for the entire day checking the topics under th second index...

Speaking of bold topics... I'll answer these later. I'm tired now.
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  #12465    
Old September 1st, 2009 (06:22 PM). Edited September 1st, 2009 by icomeanon6.
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Quote originally posted by Redstar:
Have you ever implemented plot threads/sub-plots/mini-arcs/whatever in your stories? If they're not spoileriffic and you don't mind sharing, what were they?
Aren't plot-threads inherent in stories? I should think without one, it wouldn't be a story.
I think the question was referring to multiple plot-threads as opposed to singular.

I have used sub-plots in both of my chaptered fics. In the parody, I integrated the story of the oppressed author who wants nothing more than to be free of writing the story he inhabits. Okay, that's an over-dramatization, but whatever. In my main fic, I devoted one chapter to a secondary character, while all the previous chapters followed the main character. It involved said secondary character bamboozling the United Nations.
Quote originally posted by solovino:
Speaking of bold topics... I'll answer these later. I'm tired now.
What is your opinion on a bold-topics index? Do you think it will be too hard to maintain?

Just kidding, solovino! ;)
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  #12466    
Old September 1st, 2009 (06:28 PM).
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Quote originally posted by icomeanon6:
If I'm reading this right, you're saying that a story has to have sub-plots. It's entirely possible to have a story with only one plot-thread, especially with short stories.

I have used sub-plots in both of my chaptered fics. In the parody, I integrated the story of the oppressed author who wants nothing more than to be free of writing the story he inhabits. Okay, that's an over-dramatization, but whatever. In my main fic, I devoted one chapter to a secondary character, while all the previous chapters followed the main character. It involved said secondary character bamboozling the United Nations.
The way the bold question was presented suggests asking if we've ever used any of those devices, not all together.
  #12467    
Old September 1st, 2009 (06:28 PM).
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I have just read the entirety of the Bold Topic Index, and would like to have a round of applause for our dear Solovino who has sacrificed minutes upon minutes of valuable sleep time to bring us such an achievement (and with such an awesome and Giratina-envy-inducing layout too). [clapclapclap] And if I'm understanding your reply correctly, Redstar, you're implying that you must include side-stories for other characters/groups as well as the main plot? :C Oh well, another thing I did wrong in Metal Coat then. I don't see how that's necessary.

Unless, of course, it was I who messed up by wording questions badly.

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Old September 1st, 2009 (06:32 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Giratina of Never-Turn-Back:
I have just read the entirety of the Bold Topic Index, and would like to have a round of applause for our dear Solovino who has sacrificed minutes upon minutes of valuable sleep time to bring us such an achievement (and with such an awesome and Giratina-envy-inducing layout too). [clapclapclap] And if I'm understanding your reply correctly, Redstar, you're implying that you must include side-stories for other characters/groups as well as the main plot? :C Oh well, another thing I did wrong in Metal Coat then. I don't see how that's necessary.

Unless, of course, it was I who messed up by wording questions badly.
Read my above post on this.
  #12469    
Old September 1st, 2009 (07:33 PM).
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Have you ever implemented plot threads/sub-plots/mini-arcs/whatever in your stories? If they're not spoileriffic and you don't mind sharing, what were they?
Well, NE is in two parts, before Jenny and Bunny met with Jacob and then after. However, there are sup-plots and arcs in the story:
Spoiler:
First sup-plot- Bunny and Jenny being chased by Lucas and Timmy, Chapters 1-10
Pretty much Bunny and Jenny being chased by the officers, which started off slow. XD

Second sup-plot- Bunny and Jenny meeting with Jacob, Chapters 11 and 12, maybe 13
Chapters 11 and 12 basically has the girls and Jacob talking and also plan how they'll outwit the officers. Not only that, Chapters 11 and 12 ends Part 1 of NE. And oh, this is where the officers get serious in the murder case. Chapter 13 kinda has its own plot though as that's when they encounter the officer (sort of) XD.

Third sup-plot- The Solaceon Town plot, Chapters 14-18
This one is also a long one. Basically, loads of events happened at The Lost Tower and the Solaceon Ruins. Also, this is the breaking point between Jacob and the girls.

Fourth sup-plot - Everyone chasing Jacob, The Snowpoint City plot, Chapters 19-Epilogue
Pretty much everyone trying to find Jacob and the events taking place at Snowpoint City (saved for the ending of Chapter and the Epilogue).


And solovino, nice work on the index! I might comment and suggest improvements later.
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  #12470    
Old September 1st, 2009 (08:41 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Citrinin:
One thing that's interested me with the answers to that question is that some people aren't keeping their fic all in the same document. If you don't mind me asking, what's the appeal of doing that? Personally, I'd find it quite inconvenient. o.o
I just keep them separate for ease of organization (okay well right now it's on my desktop, but still). Needless to say, I can find them all easily.

Have you ever implemented plot threads/sub-plots/mini-arcs/whatever in your stories? If they're not spoileriffic and you don't mind sharing, what were they?

Well my current fic is sort of like two plots going on at once, but the one occurring in the present is the more important one. Though I don't really want to give spoilers for either.
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Old September 1st, 2009 (09:08 PM).
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Quote originally posted by solovino:
I have an announcement!

People in general, prepare to despair! I have posted the Fanfiction Lounge *bold topics* Index!
Wonderful. Absolutely wonderful. I just found the rhyme-off we did a few months ago.
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  #12472    
Old September 1st, 2009 (09:48 PM).
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Wow, there aren't actually as many bold topics as I thought there were.
MAKE MOAR BOLD TOPICS ANNOY SOLOVINO!!!!111!!9!!11!

I'm looking forward to multiple additions.
  #12473    
Old September 1st, 2009 (09:56 PM).
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Quote originally posted by La Pompa:
Wow, there aren't actually as many bold topics as I thought there were.
MAKE MOAR BOLD TOPICS ANNOY SOLOVINO!!!!111!!9!!11!

I'm looking forward to multiple additions.
Currently it leads up to July 31st so there are a few more, but I think there could be about 1 a week, if not a bit more, not sure ratio-wise (or rather cba to find out XD, wooo britishy term used for once).
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  #12474    
Old September 1st, 2009 (11:00 PM).
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Did I tell you guys I had my first cavity drilled today? Novocain is absolutely wonderful. I couldn't feel one side of my face or even taste with half of my tongue for a few hours.

Kind of makes me want to start writing R-9WM again. Mewtwo has an interesting history with medical procedures.
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  #12475    
Old September 1st, 2009 (11:17 PM).
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Quote originally posted by txteclipse:
Did I tell you guys I had my first cavity drilled today? Novocain is absolutely wonderful. I couldn't feel one side of my face or even taste with half of my tongue for a few hours.
What a coincidence! I'm up at 3:16 EST because the surgery I had today has set my sleep cycle out of whack! Are you allowed to eat anything? I'm strictly restricted to liquids right now (the breathing tube they used made my throat irritable).
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