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  #1    
Old September 29th, 2011, 08:32 AM
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It's been 14 seasons of essentially the same pattern and frankly, it's stale.

Formula: Ash is a new trainer and doesn't know the basics of Pokemon battling, catching, and training. He doesn't win any badges based on pure skill and most of his successes have been based on luck or a technicality. Due to his lack of expertise, some of his Pokemon disobey him, until he shows that he's not that bad a trainer.

First thing's first, Ash should have ended his journey in Kanto and stayed there. Yes, he qualified for the league, but he didn't get very far. Yet, professor Oak still allowed him to go to other regions and other leagues? He did get better with time, but he still was up against Pokemon who were unfamiliar and now had more advantages and disadvantages that he didn't understand and didn't know how to properly exploit (In Johto, he had 2 new types, in Hoenn and beyond he had abilities).

The show was okay, but a bit unbelievable during Hoenn and Sinnoh, if only for the fact that they tried to make Ash a trainer who actually knew what he was doing (and it only took him what? Kanto, Johto, Orange Islands, Sevii Islands, and how many movies?) despite the fact that he didn't change his tactics by a wide margin or anything. In fact, the show would have been better off just having May/Dawn be the main protagonists for their respective regions, if only to break the cycle of 'New trainer, disobedient starter, gym badges and filler, lose league' since unlike Ash, they wanted something different out of their journeys and actually had realistic, concrete goals.

Then... Best Wishes... and I couldn't take it anymore. Best Wishes by itself is a good addition to the series in my humble opinion. But... Ash in Hoenn/Sinnoh took a step forward only to take 3 steps back when he went to Isshu/Unova. He regressed back to his old patterns and sure, really young fans of Pokemon wouldn't know the difference, but even the first episode hinted at the fact that this wasn't his first ever journey away from home. The fact that he had a Pokemon at all is an indication of that.

So, thoughts?

Do you want Ash to retire?

Do you think the anime should have gone the way of the manga and used the game protagonists for each new region, if only to be rid of the one trick pony of Ash regressing with each generation and continuing his "Master" journey?

Do you think the change in protagonists would actually give the anime a bit of depth and actual characterization beyond copy-paste personalities of most of the girls and boys that travel with Ash? Do you think these protagonists would have more motivations for their journeys beyond 'gotta catch 'em all,' beating xyz league, beating xyz contests, etc?
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Old September 29th, 2011, 09:28 AM
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Ever since Sinnoh, I have wanted Ash to leave the anime and get replaced by a new main character, because really, they've been repeating the same formula for the past 15 years, it's getting tiresome, it's time for a change. I mean really, 15 years and Ash is not only still 10 years old, but he has barely moved an INCH closer to becoming a Pokemon Master, it's time for the writers to put the animes past away and look towards a better future.

I also want Team Rocket to leave the anime as well, but that's another topic...
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  #3    
Old September 29th, 2011, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
15 years and Ash is not only still 10 years old, but he has barely moved an INCH closer to becoming a Pokemon Master, it's time for the writers to put the animes past away and look towards a better future.
The reason they keep Ash 10 years old all the time is so the show can appeal to young children. If they did have Ash grow up and become a Pokémon Master, then the show's popularity would go down the toilet and it would be ended.

With that said, maybe it is time the show dumped Ash and used a different protagonist to follow.
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Old September 29th, 2011, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otter Mii-kun View Post
The reason they keep Ash 10 years old all the time is so the show can appeal to young children. If they did have Ash grow up and become a Pokémon Master, then the show's popularity would go down the toilet and it would be ended.
That logic makes no sense. I grew up with Sailor Moon. The characters actually aged in that anime. Did anyone complain? No. Sailor Moon and the Sailor Scouts went from middle to high school by the time the show was pulled from the air in the US, not to mention the fact that everyone was between the ages of 8 and into their 20's as the show progressed. Some characters actually aged drastically for one reason or another (Hotaru went from teen to baby to Rini's age, Rini went between 8 and due to mystical events: 14) and no one questioned it. The same could be said for Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, and Dragon Ball GT. That franchise covered 3 generations where characters were killed off, brought back to life, time traveled, etc.

That said, the average young fan doesn't care about the age of a character if they like the show. Older fans will only complain if there are plot holes and inconsistencies between chronological age and like I and Masterge77 said: there seems to be no progress made in development. The problem with Ash isn't his age. It's the fact that the producers force his character to regress and the fact that he makes the same mistakes over and over and over with every new region. If these mistakes were made by new faces who we know haven't been all over the world, then it would be acceptable. But we (and more than likely new fans) know Ash has been through every region, therefore his regression back to a novice is old, annoying, and keeps the show in a continuous rut.
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Old September 29th, 2011, 05:40 PM
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(sorry i dont really understand how to do the quote thing ; )
i disagree with the idea of getting rid of team rocket they're are parts i want them to cut such as:
Meowth's visions
I think all the show needs is a mix up, such as throwing in some episodes where team rocket actully does steal one of Ash's pokemon this would give the show a good reason to not just cut to each gym battle and then having ash become the master since sometimes his pokemon would get stolen and stuff, also maybe cut out the robots and perhaps get jessie a diffrent voice actor even though all the voices of team r get kinda annoying meowth's and james' do have their shining momments
also where is brock!?!
  #6    
Old September 29th, 2011, 06:11 PM
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I want both Ash and Team Rocket gone. The writers are too afraid of change. At least in season 1 Ash had some (if not obnoxious) characterization and development.
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Old September 29th, 2011, 07:19 PM
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Do you want Ash to retire?
At some point yes I do. But whats the point of him retiring right now if he doesn't go anywhere in the 13 year run. What I want to see more then anything is progression and maintain that. They have him progression as shown in Hoenn and Sinnoh. Then he does a 180 and completely digresses to when he first started in terms of battle and basic pokemon intellect. I would be content with him staying on if he actually when somewhere with his story then passed the torch at some point.

Do you think the anime should have gone the way of the manga and used the game protagonists for each new region, if only to be rid of the one trick pony of Ash regressing with each generation and continuing his "Master" journey?
I already said this plenty of times that they should have did an Anime Adoption of the Manga and had characters like Red be the focal point then go to Gold and so on. There is no need to stay on a fixed character if all the character is going to do is go forward then backward. That makes no sense from a continuation standpoint and doesn't make for a very good story.

Do you think the change in protagonists would actually give the anime a bit of depth and actual characterization beyond copy-paste personalities of most of the girls and boys that travel with Ash?
Depends how much the writers half ass or not. If they actually have a desire to add in depth characters which ones like Paul imo then they could make that work. But if they want to just have people like Barry and Bianca or almost to the point mimic their game counter parts then that will make for a sub par character in some instances. A change wouldn't really do anything, just have another bit of copy paste characters in. At the end of the day it's up to the writers of that want to put offer into this an make original characters.

Do you think these protagonists would have more motivations for their journeys beyond 'gotta catch 'em all,' beating xyz league, beating xyz contests, etc?
Well Cilan has apsirations like being one of the best Connoisseurs and Iris to be a Dragon Master(which is kind of like Misty with her affinity for Water types). So it's not always the generic sense of motivations. I think the central motivation will always been capture, development, beating the league.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otter Mii-kun View Post
The reason they keep Ash 10 years old all the time is so the show can appeal to young children. If they did have Ash grow up and become a Pokémon Master, then the show's popularity would go down the toilet and it would be ended.

With that said, maybe it is time the show dumped Ash and used a different protagonist to follow.
I highly doubt they show take a steep decline in popularity if they dropped him. I am sure in their vast marketing minds they could surmise a replacement for them even though at this point they are iconic to the pokemon franchise.

And keeping him the same age shouldn't be any more or less appealing. Naruto, Bleach, One Piece have had it's characters go through maturation processes where we seem them mature in multiple ways. Their characters development past the time skips and those three shows are just as popular as any other. Going from Dragon Ball to DBZ(not including GT cause non canon and it sux freaking SSJ 4 bs) Goku starts off a child then matures into a teen, then an adult who then has a kid of his own Gohan who matures into a teen and the spotlight is then on him so Goku in a way passes the torch to him only too retake it when he beats Kid Buu(with the help of Spirit Bomb from Earth). So Ash could always been the may focus pass the torch to someone else then come back as a mentor and save the day. Too me progression of his character can only help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fargosis16 View Post
(sorry i dont really understand how to do the quote thing ; )
i disagree with the idea of getting rid of team rocket they're are parts i want them to cut such as:
Meowth's visions
I think all the show needs is a mix up, such as throwing in some episodes where team rocket actully does steal one of Ash's pokemon this would give the show a good reason to not just cut to each gym battle and then having ash become the master since sometimes his pokemon would get stolen and stuff, also maybe cut out the robots and perhaps get jessie a diffrent voice actor even though all the voices of team r get kinda annoying meowth's and james' do have their shining momments
also where is brock!?!
There should be a quote button on everyone style if not just do [/quote="person name"]text[/quote](expect with out the dash before the first quote)

I don't see how having his pokemon getting stolen would farther his goal of becoming a champion. Nor how jessie getting a different voice actress would help anything either.

Brock became a pokemon doctor as stated here http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=233332 in the FAQ/Simple Help topic.
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  #8    
Old September 29th, 2011, 08:00 PM
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There's no reason for Ash to be replaced when the show's doing very well (in Japan, at least) right now. Replacing him would be taking a risk; there isn't enough of an incentive for the staff to do that. If the show's ratings decline then maybe the writers would be willing to take that risk to get its popularity back up.

Aging him would serve no purpose, since the show's fanbase is mainly young kids who are replaced every saga with new ones. Us older fans are a minority.

I would like to see mixup episodes as mentioned though, like the Rockets succeeding in catching one of Ash's Pokemon lol. Maybe if they wanted to, they could make a game or manga version of the anime and see how well that does rating-wise. Though many people probably won't watch it when we've got Ash's adventures already going on.
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Old September 30th, 2011, 04:28 AM
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Yes please! I hate B/W because Ash is a total moron! He probably could win a freaking league if he used all his good pokemon! Should you be using a newly caught gible in a battle to be the all time master? Ummm....no. We ned someone more mature and not quoting Iris "Such a kid". Personally id like to see a 16 year old with a team of just 6 pokemon like in the magna. That way he could just focus on those pokemon while his companions work on their goals. (Coordinater, Musical, breeding, conisuer)
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Old September 30th, 2011, 04:41 AM
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I would have liked it if Pokemon was a bit similar to Yu-Gi-Oh in terms of series (when a character's journey ends, a new character will be introduced to start a new journey). On the other hand, I wanted Ash to stay behind because of how people are familiar with him.
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Old September 30th, 2011, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zlip View Post
Yes please! I hate B/W because Ash is a total moron! He probably could win a freaking league if he used all his good pokemon! Should you be using a newly caught gible in a battle to be the all time master? Ummm....no. We ned someone more mature and not quoting Iris "Such a kid". Personally id like to see a 16 year old with a team of just 6 pokemon like in the magna. That way he could just focus on those pokemon while his companions work on their goals. (Coordinater, Musical, breeding, conisuer)
Ash is never going to leave the show or be replace. Atleast Ash is full of life and personality in the BW series.
  #12    
Old September 30th, 2011, 02:51 PM
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Do you want Ash to retire?
Longer than a decade, seeing that... twerp honestly makes me sick. He's just so bland and predictable, it's not interesting. Others have said he really loses all development, which I completely agree with. I think they should have dropped him after Sinnoh, at the latest. Sure he gets slightly better but in the end, he's going nowhere fast.

Do you think the anime should have gone the way of the manga and used the game protagonists for each new region, if only to be rid of the one trick pony of Ash regressing with each generation and continuing his "Master" journey?
The manga way would be really nice to see adapted into an anime. Using a different character per region also gives more opportunities and ideas for the makers to use. Using the game protagonists also promotes the games, thus making more money really. Though they already do that with the female protagonist.

Do you think the change in protagonists would actually give the anime a bit of depth and actual characterization beyond copy-paste personalities of most of the girls and boys that travel with Ash? Do you think these protagonists would have more motivations for their journeys beyond 'gotta catch 'em all,' beating xyz league, beating xyz contests, etc?
One example of this is Brock. He had a different goal, he was a main character, and he still went nowhere. He had an interesting motif, but the writers scribbled him out. I wish they had focused on him more, but the past is past. Change in protagonists would pretty much agree with having a variety of motives, though I doubt they would even do that. The Pokemon World seems really shallow minded when it comes to these things, with everyone simply aspiring to be the best rather than something like a doctor or any other occupation. The manga really did a good job on this though. Like the GSC arc, Gold went on his journey to find the stolen Totodile and his own stolen pokemon.
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Old September 30th, 2011, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by tough View Post
Ash is never going to leave the show or be replace. .
Awesome you can predict the future.
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Old September 30th, 2011, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by TheFuturePokemon View Post
Awesome you can predict the future.
Actually, I'm sure he's right about that unfortunately. Here's a link to an interview where it pretty much sums it up.

Second Interview with Masamitsu Hidaka – Many Interesting Points!

Quote:
Now an overall question about the show. Will Ash ever become a Pokemon Master? He laughed and fell back on the couch. He blatantly said that when Ash becomes a Pokemon Master, the show will end. It will be the last episode. Going back to my first interview, I did not mention that he stated the show was cyclical because it could be the audience is constantly replaced (since children get older and leave, and new children come in), so they are allowed to get away with having the same repetitive goal. So, the show would probably continue the same way collect badges, travel through different regions, never age. Will Ash and Pikachu ever be replaced? No. Will they ever age? No. Will there be a 5th generation of Pokemon and will the show keep continuing? He laughed even harder and said of course. Pokemon will continue for many generations to come, and as he made it sound, probably forever.
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Old September 30th, 2011, 03:25 PM
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I would love a different protagonist, but I'd still be at least content if they made Ash GROW UP, AT LEAST MENTALLY.

At first I was bit indifferent with this matter, but after seeing some of the episodes from the new series, I genuinely think this show honestly needs a bit of change after this saga ends. Least I could hope for is his maturity to grow, but if the writers are too "afraid" to make this change, then I guess the only other option to satisfy my "anime hunger" would be a new main character. I would honestly love to see at least a bit of change regarding this matter. I know they're trying to attract younger fans, but older fans have gone as a result.

If you really want a proof that switching major characters aren't going to harm the show, look at Cilan. He's
fabulous. (mini-pun intended)
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Old September 30th, 2011, 03:37 PM
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So...the creator himself blatanly says that they're making Ash remain eternally young while everybody else ages....simply...what....I mean, honestly, is that not the stupidest thing you have ever heard?!

But yeah, I'd wanna see any of the other protagonist's take over like Gold/Ethan or Brendan/Ruby or any of the other protagonists and go the route of the adventure manga....or at least make another series so you can do that and let the kiddies enjoy their ****** main series while we superior Pokemon fans watch a better show |3
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Old October 1st, 2011, 01:09 PM
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I think they should make a movie where Ash becomes a Pokemon Master, and get him outta here. I mean I LOOOOOVVVVVEEEEE Ash and all(had a crush on him since I was little (: ), but the new episodes arent even him anymore. I hate his new druggy voice, and his sense of humor and personality is nothing like it was in the first 5 seasons. I wish they would put a new character in, and sadly, take Ash out. I want to see his Pokemon dream come true already. Ive been waiting 15 years... -__-
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Old October 1st, 2011, 04:31 PM
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2Cool4Mewtwo is right, Ash should be retired sometime.

If I were to see Ash replaced, I'd like the lead female of the BW games (Hilda) as an Ash replacement. I just think she has that tomboyish factor.
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Old October 1st, 2011, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by TheFuturePokemon View Post
Awesome you can predict the future.
It was already stated in the interview with Masamitsu Hidaka that Ash and Pikachu will never be replace,no matter how much fans get tired of Ash and Pikachu they are here to stay until the show is over with Ash becoming a pokemon master,but even i doubt that will ever happen.
  #20    
Old October 2nd, 2011, 03:15 AM
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The only thing i don't get on the whole "We want Ash out" debate is what would it actually change? If you really think about it would be exactly the same story lines just with a new face i am personally happy with ash i would just like a bit more creativity in the writing department i don't have a problem with Ash
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  #21    
Old October 3rd, 2011, 11:31 AM
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I think that to replace him now would be a bit of a risk but in 5 years time replacing Ash wouldn't be such a bad thing.

If they were to replace Ash now I think Max would be a decent person to replace him with. He is a character we are familiar with, can lead to cameos from older characters and would be funny looking at someone who has researched Pokemon make mistakes rather than some idiot with no knowledge making them. Also if we were counting each Generation as one year then Max would be at the right age to start his journey.
  #22    
Old October 4th, 2011, 01:17 PM
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Honestly? No. I would stop watching the anime if Ash left. He's annoying, he's rubbish and he doesn't seem to learn from anything, but that's my childhood and I'd hate that to be changed.
  #23    
Old October 29th, 2011, 01:08 AM
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This is a show with NO character development. Maybe he picks a few things up in one season, then the next he forgets everything. In reigon changes it's like he's forgotten how to battle. He loses to nooby Snivys and has a hell of a time capturing new, weak starters...
I watch Naruto and DB(Z/GT) so this formula is terrible, IMO. I don't want to see a moron change his clothes every few reigons...
Just speaking 3/4 of what I had to say about Ash.
  #24    
Old October 29th, 2011, 01:42 AM
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I guess Ash could be replaced if he becomes a Pokemon Master.

If I were to see a new character taking his place, I'd make it Hilda from the 5th Gen games. It's just that she looks the part to have a Ash Ketchum-like quest and she would also pursue becoming a Pokemon Master.

Her starter will of course, stay outside of its Poke Ball and not evolve. I'd make it Oshawott as Hilda is a Unova-based character.

As for traveling companions, I'd say the other mains of the BW games (Hilbert, Cheren and Bianca)

This is just my opinion.
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  #25    
Old October 29th, 2011, 09:10 AM
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He should. Then Hilda or Jimmy might step up. Then they'll have to make the Legend of Thunder movie non-cannon. Jimmy and his friends have character development. At the into of Pmon Chronicles, there're a breif shot of Jimmy, Marina (something) and Vincent with their new starters, looking young.
If they replace Ash with a new trainer and give him/her development, more people will watch the show. Maybe this Generation's younger fans will stop watching, but the older and later ones will like it more, especially when they compare it with the original.
DB (Z/GT) had character development and did anyone have a problem? NO! Not the younger people, like me (my dad downloaded the cut dubbed episodes of DBZ when I was around 8 or 9), not the older people either.
I think if they gave some development, the show will be liked by (99% =P) people of all ages.
I'm sleeeeeeeepyzzzzz....
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