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  #1    
Old February 21st, 2009 (11:48 AM).
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I remember when I first joined PokéCommunity. I was an eager RM2K user, desperate to show off the work I'd spent the best part of a couple of months coding to showcase everything I'd learned about game making for Pokémon Hidden Depths.

Then as I ventured round to other threads, I got to see other peoples' games. Games most people now wouldn't have even heard of. Rm2k3kid's Pokémon Liquid, Krazy_Meerkat's Pokémon Rusty, Avatar's Pokémon Rising Sun, DarkMage31's Pokémon Lunar, PKMN Sage's Pokémon Orre, and so on.

Each game looked like a lot of fun and, more importantly, each game looked different. They were all created solely by each person with the knowledge and skills they'd gained from a long period of constantly learning and practicing and improving on their work. And all of that time and effort shone through in the screenshots and demos that they posted. And it was actually a privilege to see these games get updated and to see the new elements they had incorporated into their games.

It's what kept me constantly motivated in my own game. Trying to keep up with these guys meant constantly trying to hone my own talents and learn more and more about the ins-and-outs of making a Pokémon game and making it unique.

Then RMXP was released. Games got bigger and better looking and more ambitious. Great. Even more ways to make your own game stand out from the crowd and to make your own game all the more awesome.

Then, some point later, a Pokémon Starter Kit was released, which in turn evolved into Poccil's Pokémon Essentials. Which basically has every single part of a Pokémon game pre coded for you. CBS, CMS, Bag System etc. There's probably even more to it than that, I've just not looked too deeply into it.

And now almost every single "game developer" is using this Pokémon Essentials to create a game. I open up a thread, scroll down to the credits and see, “Poccil’s Pokémon Essentials.” Then I click ’Back’ on my browser. What's the point of that? What's the point of trying to develop a game when the main part of the game has already been developed for you? Every single game looks the same now. Everybody is using the starter kit, everybody is using Kyledove's tilesets and everybody has become extremely generic.

I've been coming back to this forum for the past couple of weeks to try and draw some inspiration and motivation for my own project, but it's completely impossible. The only game I've seen that stands out from the crowd (apart from the MMOs) is Neo Dragon's Pokémon Protectors, and that's because he's created everything by himself, without resorting to using someone else's work. Major kudos to him

Have people just become lazy? People that use a starter kit are no different from ROM hackers to me. When I look at a game, I wanna see a CUSTOM battle system, a CUSTOM menu system and some original features and systems. I don't wanna just see similar maps using the same tileset. It seems to me now that the Game Development area has just become a contest to see who can create the best Fakémon, most of which are also made by other people too.

So I ask, what happened to originality? And what happened to the grit and determination of building a game using only your own skills?
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  #2    
Old February 21st, 2009 (01:00 PM).
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As you know Dawson, I've been around about the same time as you ( I said around, I'm pretty sure you joined earlier though lol). I miss everyone from the "old days" so much. I felt these were the guys who inspired me big time. I remember you were the one always giving me advice on Pokemon Silk 1- remember giving me advice on making paths lol- or giving me advice on improving my old a$$ menu I did with the default colors in paint. I remember most of those days in detail lol.

I agree with you and the point you are trying to make 100%. And thanks for the plug and compliment (means a lot). But fact is, it's really an old way of thinking. We are like the old granddads everyone tries to ignore. Even when we offer the best advice (I say best, but I mean more mature advice) and people just don't listen.

No matter how many times we say "If I want to play a standard pokemon game, I will play the real pokemon games" people still thinking adding in all regions is a feature.
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  #3    
Old February 21st, 2009 (01:11 PM).
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There's nothing wrong with using a starter kit, you're, in essence, already using a very global starting kit by using RMXP or RM2k. The thing is that most people don't actually bother to expand upon that.

Grab the starter kit, throw down some maps, add in the same old story about a kid fighting an evil organization while becoming a Pokémon master and call it a game. Total uninspired 'game making'. You might as well just hack roms if you're not going to try and refresh the idea.
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Old February 21st, 2009 (02:26 PM).
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Seriously, you are right with every point you bring up. I joined about a year after you did, but still, there were no starterkits or anything, and people came up with solutions themselves. There was the RM2K/3 Battle System Project, but that was about it. Pokémon Liquid was one of the games I remember most (no offense or anything), and it was completely original. I don't even bother downloading demos anymore. They all look so similar.

On another note, what happened to non-Pokémon games? All the games seem to be all about Pokémon (though it is a bit understandable, considering the board is about Pokémon). If I could find my Tales of Virtue demo, I would continue that and post it here, but unfortunately, I can't.

I was going to say something about ROM hacking, but considering that section is heading in the same direction, I won't.
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Old February 21st, 2009 (04:07 PM).
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The thing is, had the RM2k/3 battle system project ever been finished we would've had the exact same situation we have now (albeit earlier and for another RPG Maker program) so it really doesn't make much of a difference.

While most of the games being showcased here now are nothing more than generic you really have to look beyond the framework they are all based on. Mods of games like Half-Life use the exact same framework, but it's not what they are based on that matter there. It's what they're able to accomplish with it.

The fact that you haven't seen any non-Pokemon games is probably attributed to the fact that they seem to get little (if any at all) acknowledgement.
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Old February 21st, 2009 (04:10 PM).
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You know, this thread really got me thinking.I agree with almost everything you guys have said, and some of the things are true even in my game. I guess that doesn't make me any better than the kinds of people you criticize.

-I have heard of those legendary pioneer games, but what happened to them? Did those people just give up?
-Yes, the vast majority of updates are pretty bland.
-I remember when the first demo of (~~~~~~~~~) came out. I was all ecstatic and even though the layout, gameplay, graphics, and all were abysmal, I still loved it because it was new and original. It showed the hard work of a lot of people, and I was all excited about the game and all its parts. And since then, I have been more and more disappointed. Many other games have taken similar downfalls.
-The Kyledove D/P tiles aren't even that good. The colors are too dull and the buildings look way out of proportion. They can be put to good use, but only after heavy edits that no one seems to be willing to do.
-I don't think it's that people are lazy. I think it's more that people are immature and lack creativity.

"Grab the starter kit, throw down some maps, add in the same old story about a kid fighting an evil organization while becoming a Pokémon master and call it a game. Total uninspired 'game making'. You might as well just hack roms if you're not going to try and refresh the idea."
That's how most of the games are, unfortunately. Even mine.


All things said and done, your post was very thought-provoking. I can't stop thinking about it since I first read this. I feel like a total loser right now, but I and many others deserve to.
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  #7    
Old February 21st, 2009 (05:45 PM). Edited February 21st, 2009 by ckret2.
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Sounds like a typical case of Sturgeon's Law: 90% of everything is crap (and most of the remaining 10% is crap, too). Including fangames.

If there's a drop in quality, it's probably because the would-be game developers who didn't have the talent to make a game of their own (and who thought that stuffing all the regions in one game would automatically make it amazing) weren't able to use the programs it takes to make a game. If a starter kit makes it easier for them, then they now have an outlet for their bad ideas that's simple enough for them to use with little effort.

It's like fanfiction vs. published work. Fanfiction is considered a horrible pile of slag because so much of it is simply terrible. But just about as many novels are equally terrible. The difference is that publishing companies will throw the bad novels in the reject pile (well, most of the time...) but there's no similar quality control on the Internet.

If Pokémon Essentials makes it so much easier to create a game, then that's basically a removal of quality control. It's no surprise if a bunch of dull, unoriginal games are showing up, if now you don't need talent to make a game. Game developers aren't getting any lazier; lazy game developers are finally able to make games, when they weren't able to before.

On a slightly different note, I'd definitely expected some "game developing pwns ROM hacking" sentiment in the Game Development section, but I'm surprised at some of the... disdain? Hostility? "Have people just become lazy? People that use a starter kit are no different from ROM hackers to me." Does that mean ROM hackers are inherently lazy? "You might as well just hack roms if you're not going to try and refresh the idea." Does that mean it's impossible for ROM hacks to have fresh ideas? I agree that ROM hacking suffers--and has probably suffered for a long time--from the same problem that game development now seems to suffer: the easier it is to use the tools, the more untalented/lazy people will use them. And even with Pokémon Essentials for game developers, ROM hackers still have it easier, with already-built games ready to modify and tools like AdvanceMap that almost reach WYSIWYG simplicity. So it's true that the quality control barriers put in place for ROM hacking are even lower than the barriers for game development, and a greater percentage of Sturgeon's 90% can ooze onto the Internet.

But how does that make ROM hackers inherently lazy? Or incapable of fresh ideas? I think it depends on what you do with them. I hack ROMs instead of developing games because I don't want a new game structure; I want to make a game that feels like the original Pokémon games, that has the same battle system, the same Start menu, the same tiles. I don't want to do anything that can't be done in the original games. So, why would I start from scratch and design my own game, when I could have the exact amount of creative control I want over my game by hacking a ROM, and in addition save a lot of time on building the basics of the game that could be better spent developing the plot, scripting events, and trying to make the story as innovative and entertaining as it can be?

Sure, there are many more bad attempts at games in the ROM hacking section than there are in the game development section, just because it's easier for the lazy guys to start retiling maps and calling it a Brilliant New Region. But I disagree with the suggestion that it's impossible to make a great game, with an original plot and innovative ideas, just because someone is using a ROM--or, just because someone is using Pokémon Essentials, or any other starter kit.

It's just easier for the unoriginal, uncreative games to get made as well.
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  #8    
Old February 21st, 2009 (06:06 PM). Edited February 21st, 2009 by blueguy.
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Before Pokémon Essentials, there were a number of projects that never got finished or released. After Pokémon Essentials, there are still a number of projects never finished or released, however with Pokémon Essentials there is a possibility that this can happen. Before, people were trying, and failing, to make Pokémon games, and now the tools are there.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, not everyone in the world is super-talented with coding/scripting etc. It's really complicated, and quite honestly, I'm not interested in learning it. Pokémon Essentials really gives a person like me, and lots of others, with ideas and creativity the platform to make a Pokémon game. And yes, I'm also aware that there are a large number of sub-par projects, using kyledove's tiles as a way to distract from the fact that they're not putting any work into their games.

I look at Pokémon Essentials as a really great vehicle for Pokémon game development, and while it has led to a surplus of forgettable projects, it can give way to really great ones, if people just put in the hard work.
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Old February 21st, 2009 (06:12 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Neo Dragon:
I agree with you and the point you are trying to make 100%. And thanks for the plug and compliment (means a lot). But fact is, it's really an old way of thinking. We are like the old granddads everyone tries to ignore. Even when we offer the best advice (I say best, but I mean more mature advice) and people just don't listen.
high-five for an archaic way of thinking! I remember the good old days with my brother, Ice Dragon, who was eventually arrested by the Chinese government and probably executed, and I coming up with innovations in Fire Emblem fangames. Those were much better times than what we have nowadays.

But once the knowledge on how to do something becomes common, it's inevitable that people are going to take advantage of it. This is probably the main thing I learned not only from this thread, but my own, much smaller editorial at the beginning of GDW.
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Old February 21st, 2009 (06:37 PM).
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Quote originally posted by blueguy:
Before Pokémon Essentials, there were a number of projects that never got finished or released. After Pokémon Essentials, there are still a number of projects never finished or released, however with Pokémon Essentials there is a possibility that this can happen. Before, people were trying, and failing, to make Pokémon games, and now the tools are there.
People won't finish anything for a while. A really long while, because most people are too obsessed with revamping everything that they can't be satisfied with what they have.
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Old February 21st, 2009 (06:51 PM).
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The question Dawson is asking aint about how many games get finished, but where is the originality in the fan games these days.
Like, the first thing people say when they feel they aint being original is "Ohh it won't be the default get 8 gym badges and take out an evil team"- but that isn't a bad thing. What is important is the gameplay experience you are offering. Gamefreak have been using that storyline for 4 generations, but it how the world is presented and how the story unfolds that keeps the pokemon fans coming back. The hardcore player is all about getting all the pokemon and working on the stats of a pokemon, but the casual player just plays through the story events.

What I am looking for in a fan game personally is not a fancy menu, or a cool storyline that is different, it is just the feeling of exploring in a compelling world. I- and everyone- has real lifes to get on with. When we do have free time, give us a reason to spend it in your world. Ya know?
That's the whole point of an RPG I guess.
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Old February 21st, 2009 (08:19 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Neo-Dragon:
The question Dawson is asking aint about how many games get finished, but where is the originality in the fan games these days.
Like, the first thing people say when they feel they aint being original is "Ohh it won't be the default get 8 gym badges and take out an evil team"- but that isn't a bad thing. What is important is the gameplay experience you are offering. Gamefreak have been using that storyline for 4 generations, but it how the world is presented and how the story unfolds that keeps the pokemon fans coming back. The hardcore player is all about getting all the pokemon and working on the stats of a pokemon, but the casual player just plays through the story events.

What I am looking for in a fan game personally is not a fancy menu, or a cool storyline that is different, it is just the feeling of exploring in a compelling world. I- and everyone- has real lifes to get on with. When we do have free time, give us a reason to spend it in your world. Ya know?
That's the whole point of an RPG I guess.
I totally agree with him on that point then. I hate to see the same project over and over again, with no effort or originality. But it's really unfair to insult every single person who uses Pokémon Essentials. I have been a frequent browser of this forum for years and I don't believe that the projects today are that much worse than the ones that used to be here.

I used to really love looking at all the screenshots from Dawson's game, but nothing playable really ever arose. The same went for all of the other games. Now that a really wonderful system like Essentials has come along, the possibilities are endless.

And I'd like to stress the point again... I commend people like you, Neo-Dragon, or any of the people who used to pioneer this forum, with systems that you work very hard on. I think your project is amazing, and I wish I had the scripting genius to be able to pull it off, but I don't. I really don't. And it's not something I feel I could learn!

I do know that I have too much free time on my hands, and I want to make a game. I do know I have lots of ideas I want to put to use. Why is it a bad thing to use Pokémon Essentials? I'm not a lazy person. I'm just a person that wants to make a game, and Essentials provides me with the platform to do it.

Would this forum be a better place if there was no sure-fire system with which to make a Pokémon RPG? I don't necessarily think so.
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Old February 21st, 2009 (08:26 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Dawson:
Rm2k3kid's Pokémon Liquid, Krazy_Meerkat's Pokémon Rusty, Avatar's Pokémon Rising Sun, DarkMage31's Pokémon Lunar, PKMN Sage's Pokémon Orre, and so on.
Where's Boodasack's Call of Latios?

To answer your question, I do remember originality. During the time you were around, I was an ignorant child that went to great lengths to promote not using the RPGMaker series. Now, I'm an ignorant person that also tries to promote originality.
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Old February 21st, 2009 (08:45 PM).
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Quote originally posted by blueguy:
I used to really love looking at all the screenshots from Dawson's game, but nothing playable really ever arose.
Thanks for the kind words I didn't quote, but your wrong with that statement. Dawson did have a release on his game. I loved it. It was Pokemon Hidden Depths which had a REALLY unique feature that let you cut down trees and purify lakes with sludge water (Yup, I even remember that Dawson lol).

Pokemon Liquid by Rm2k3kid got a release.

3 of my old games got demos (Silk1, Digital Network and Silk2).

The community was working together on a battle system for Rm2k(3) (it worked on both as far as I remember)- which - again- had a release.

There was A LOT more games and demos released back then.
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Old February 21st, 2009 (08:49 PM).
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Well i dont like it that heaps of people
are using Pokemon Essentials
mainly because all games are like the same
I mean who would like to play a game with
the same battle system as others?
I prefer RM2K3 because it will give me
more flexibility and i've been using it for a while now.
So I agree with you why does everyone use the starter it anyway?
because it is easy i think.
You dont have to agree with me though.
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Old February 21st, 2009 (08:54 PM).
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RM2k3 actually limits flexibility...
Plus why
do you type
like this?
I don't think
there's one reason for
your sentences to be spread
out over more than one
line!
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  #17    
Old February 21st, 2009 (09:00 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Neo-Dragon:
Thanks for the kind words I didn't quote, but your wrong with that statement. Dawson did have a release on his game. I loved it. It was Pokemon Hidden Depths which had a REALLY unique feature that let you cut down trees and purify lakes with sludge water (Yup, I even remember that Dawson lol).

Pokemon Liquid by Rm2k3kid got a release.

3 of my old games got demos (Silk1, Digital Network and Silk2).

The community was working together on a battle system for Rm2k(3) (it worked on both as far as I remember)- which - again- had a release.

There was A LOT more games and demos released back then.
Aww, I didn't know his game had a release. T_T I always wanted to play it.

And I know you've released stuff too! Your projects have always been really interesting.

I think it would be great to create a new sense of community around here. I'd like it if that could happen.
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Old February 21st, 2009 (09:01 PM).
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lol
Its caus thats how im used to typing
and RM2K3 lets you have more flexibiltiy
caus ive been working on a secret project in
it and look at Protectors!
Its pretty awesome
and with RM2K3 i know it
limits your files to 256 colours but with irfan view
you can make it go up to more!
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Old February 21st, 2009 (09:02 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Neo-Dragon:
Thanks for the kind words I didn't quote, but your wrong with that statement. Dawson did have a release on his game. I loved it. It was Pokemon Hidden Depths which had a REALLY unique feature that let you cut down trees and purify lakes with sludge water (Yup, I even remember that Dawson lol).
I remember that game! Yep... those were the golden days of Game Development...
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Old February 21st, 2009 (09:24 PM).
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Well i wasnt around then but I have a copy of hidden depths
and its fun i say!
and a unique feature is to choose between 2 versions/storylines.
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  #21    
Old February 21st, 2009 (10:17 PM). Edited February 21st, 2009 by Hall Of Famer.
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First of all, I agree with you that games in game showcase need more originality. It's good to see every game with a different style of storyline, character design, and unique features like minigames. I also agree with the point that the games will look more boring and less creative if they all start to use kyledove's tileset. Kyledove's tiles are good to be used in a few fan games, but not in everyone's game.

However, I have to point out the fact you have made a similar mistake to Neil Postman. As PyroYahtzee put it, the people who use the starterkit and refuse to expand their games are what you should blame, not the starterkit itself. Like Avatar said, the unfinished RM2K3 battle system project would have created the same situation if it was ever finished. The starterkit makes it a lot easier for n00bs to start a possibly improvable and finishable project, while I can tell that most of the fan games in game showcase wouldn't even be as good as they already are without Poccil's pokemon essentials.

Besides, your concept of creativity is a little bit controversial. I personally don't see why games made with RMXP and poccil's starterkit can't ever become creative. The starterkit does make the game less expandable, but we can still create new elements within the pokemon essentials itself, which is also a form of creativity. If you want to talk about the absolute definition of creativity, well, then we are not supposed to make pokemon games at all according to this logic. We're also not supposed to use RMXP, game maker or Sphere at all since they are already modified scripting systems for game developers. Why not try a 3D shooting game instead? I'm sure it's more of a unique game, but it won't ever become as popular and appreciated in this forum. Instead, pokemon games made by Poccil's starterkit can be creative and original as well if people learn how to create scripts and make them compatible with the starterkit.

Another issue is that we can't expect most people to be able to do everything(scripts, storyline, maps, graphics, music and so on) by themselves. More importantly, they don't have the time to do all those stuff even if they can. The fact is that most of us will have to request a huge team to make custom graphics in order to complete a project like Custom battle system, which is not quite possible at this point. Keep in mind that everyone has a life out of internet and they are using their spare time to make fan games. We're not professional game developers, and we won't make fan games anymore if we are since the games will not be free and open to the public. Do we like to see pokecommunity turn into a website where games become commercial and their developers attempt to propagate their own games using ads everywhere? I wonder.

I do agree with you that originality is needed in this forum, but there's more than one way to make a game original. A unique storyline, interesting character design and creative graphic style can make a game original as well.
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  #22    
Old February 22nd, 2009 (06:31 AM).
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Kyledove
Drowzee
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
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What's really depressing for me - from a graphics side of things is like, when I made the Sinnoh tilesets I imagined people using them in all these different and original ways. There is still room for originality within my tiles, but what do we get? Exact same Pallet and Twin leaf towns - yuck! C'mon now, you can do better than that.

Same with my indoors, I made them and I thought woah imagine all the different combinations and interiors people will make! But what happened? Every single hero's house looks the same as the hero's house from DP...Uh seriously, what about adding a wall here, or extra rooms here, or a part of a lab there - There's so much potential but everyone just copies the same room structures as DP!

I do think though that maybe the Sinnoh tilesets weren't the best idea, all it seems to have done is people have become so dependant on them no one is doing their own. People don't make as many custom tiles as before. I suppose it will only reach a point it becomes too overused and its "uncool" so people will be forced to start their own which is good though.

Other than that, it's hard to be original when anything you release people will copy or be "inspired" by you too closely. (Not stealing - just copied very closely.)
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Old February 22nd, 2009 (11:36 AM).
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Ty 101
Advanced Trainer
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Okay!

I hear a lot of people complain about essentials. If I was poccil I would have left the community by now. A lot of people say that Poccil's starter kit was for the worse. He put lots of work into the starter kit. The least you can do is not get mad at him for doing something that helped many members of the community. I do agree that the starter kit has more people creating games and because more people are making games some are not going to be very good. I use the starter kit myself and I beleive that if you are going to use the starter kit you should involve at least a little bit of scripting into your game. When I say this I am not saying that if you do not script your game will be awful. Many games made with the starter kit have turned out really good. Many people say that the starter kit reduces origianality because it limits the game. I disagree! I have seen many screenshots of completely redone games with excelent scripts. As an example I am putting together a completely possible multiplayer function in my game. Lets not forget thee once unimpressive raptor that has risin to great quality. I am sick of people insulting the starter kit! People who have created the best games of all time were on a team of game developers. I am not useing kyledoves tiles. The reason I am not is to make everything stand out. People can help each other!
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Old February 22nd, 2009 (07:37 PM). Edited February 22nd, 2009 by twilight guardian.
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twilight guardian
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I would essentially have to agree with everyone on this forum who is in support of the Starter Kit. Yes, I'm using it. Why? Because I have never made a game before in my life and I am starting out. But that doesn't mean that I am going to make my game the same as everyone elses. In fact, the game that I am working on right now is more of a simulation game and yes will require a lot of scripting, something that I know nothing about. In fact, the primary target of my game is not pokemon battles or challenging gyms and trainers but breeding pokemon and breeding them to the best of their potential (I'm putting my more generic or "less original" games on hiatus until I know more about game making).

I know that it could be frustrating. But I don't think that it's appropriate to put people down because of what program they're using. I believe that if you are really upset about something like this, then why not do something about it? Make tutorials that clearly teaches the less knowledgable on how to use scripting and encourage the newbies with the impliments of more creativity; don't just say "this game won't do well" tell them why you don't find it interesting. If all your doing is making a forum and whining and complaining, then you're just making up another useless forum that doesn't solve the problem. For instance, I got into this whole online game-making because I saw that there weren't any good games, thus I decided to get up off my butt (or... on rather?) and do something about it. I've started with 0% knowledge of this program, and yes I have to ask a crapload of questions and I'm probably annoying the hell out of my friend that's helping me, but isn't that worth it to make a good game how you want it to be?

Also, don't judge a game by the name, either. An important note, since many of us seem to be rather shallow.

But that's just my oppinion on the matter. No one is going to do what I personally think is best because they are not me and may not see my way of thinking. Others are more closed-minded than others or are maybe just naive. But if making fan-games is what you really like doing, then I don't think that you really need much more motivation than the support from people who are looking forward to your game. It's especially satisfying if you're mostly doing it by yourself. It may be a lot harder and you might have to ask a mountain of questions (like I have to) then it's all worth it, right? Even if you are having help from a team of people that you scraped together, it's still plenty of motivation considering that you are the head (or not) of the project and other people are waiting on you. Maybe I'm getting off topic though? ^-^;
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Old February 23rd, 2009 (06:45 AM).
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Maruno
Lead Dev of Pokémon Essentials
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
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I really like the Essentials kit, and not just because I'm relatively new here. It gives anyone a chance to make at least half a game out of their concepts, and that's exactly what encourages creativity. You don't follow? Well, consider this...

A shiny-eyed kid loves the Pokémon games, but wishes there were a game in which the player was able to transform into Arceus. It may not be the best concept in the world, but it's his idea. He discovers Pokémon Essentials and thinks, "great! Now I can make my game exactly how I want it to be!" And so he starts at it. The problem is, he knows nothing about it. Now, the kid can go one of two ways: ask for lots of help so that he can learn more so he can create his game (good) or attempt to hire a dozen people who'll make his game for him (bad). The point, though, is that if he really does want his game to exist, then he'll keep at it. And during that time, he'll find out all kinds of things about RPG Maker and scripting and events and all that. He learns, and he'll probably learn so much that he decides he can make a better game than the one he originally set out to do.

The lesser key point (the greater key point is below) is that a person who works for a long time on their game is dedicated to it, and wants it to succeed and be good. Yes, there'll be those who proudly announce their game and then nothing comes of it because they're too lazy to actually make the thing, but you should be ignoring those "projects". Most likely, those "projects" will be the bad ideas, the "I wanna make a Gold clone with Kyledove's tiles!". Ignore them.

The greater key point, though, is that the Essentials kit makes the entire area of Pokémon game-making a lot less elitist. In the old days, game developers needed to have extensive knowledge of programming, and needed to implement everything themselves. That's impressive, but it does restrict the number of game developers to "those who can also program". I doubt there's a high correlation between creativing and programming skill - people can have great ideas without being able to make a game from scratch, you know. Since games are all about having fun, why should the people who want to spread the fun around be restricted only to those who have extensive programming skills?

Also, consider the existence of RPG Maker, Game Maker, Sphere, etc. in the first place. What are they? They're kits that allow people to much more easily create games. They allow just anyone with an idea to start making a game. And I'm sure everyone agrees that they're good things, and a great boon to the game-making community as a whole. I fail to see how Essentials is any different, simply because it allows for the creation of a Pokémon game as opposed to a generic RPG.

Everyone who's arguing against Essentials in this thread are complaining that every single game is identical, with no script changes or innovative tileset layouts and whatnot. In other places these exact same people will be the ones complaining that no one ever finishes their games. You seem to be missing out on the fact that what you're looking at are betas of games. They're certainly not the final result. How about we start assuming that, once these people have finished their mapping, they'll then go on to scripting (at least in a basic sense which, trust me, can make a lot of difference)? I know I'd like to think so (but then again, I never look at the games so I don't know what's around).

Incidentally, I'm doing the opposite to all the examples you know about. I'm working on my game all by myself in private, getting the menus and the graphics all sorted out (but I'm not using Kyledove's tiles) before I start mapping and making the game itself. I'll only be revealing my game to anyone when there's a significant amount of it made. And I'm sure I'm not the only one who's doing this, either. You just don't know about us people. It's like assuming all land everywhere is light brown and gritty just because you're standing in a desert. And we're the rainforests.
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