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  #151    
Old August 18th, 2009, 12:22 PM
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I already knew about this, but I usually did it differently. I would just save the tileset, block data, and palettes of the tileset I was going to use and load them over the old stuff in a different tileset.
You mean like creating a duplicate of that tileset in another tileset? Why not just change the tileset # of all maps using the tileset-to-be-replaced to the other one?

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Originally Posted by sasquatchd00d View Post
And when I changed the palettes of the doors then, the animation had the correct palettes still. Maybe it's if you edit the palette that it was originally assigned to, such as if it was in palette 10, I would edit palette 10 to change the animation palettes.
Right, that's what I've been doing. But I was thinking that there might be some way to change which palette the door animation uses. I was wondering whether the door animation shares a palette with the tileset in which it is contained (so that editing the palette of one would alter the colors used by the other) or if the door animation had some data which pointed to a specific palette (which could theoretically be edited to point to a different palette). Basically, I would like to know how the computer knows which palette to use for the frames in the animation.
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  #152    
Old August 18th, 2009, 12:38 PM
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You mean like creating a duplicate of that tileset in another tileset? Why not just change the tileset # of all maps using the tileset-to-be-replaced to the other one?
I was doing that to have the door tile I wanted in a different tileset. So if I wanted different buildings in different tilesets to have the same door animation, that's what I would do.
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  #153    
Old August 19th, 2009, 01:59 AM
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Originally Posted by colcolstyles View Post
Right, that's what I've been doing. But I was thinking that there might be some way to change which palette the door animation uses. I was wondering whether the door animation shares a palette with the tileset in which it is contained (so that editing the palette of one would alter the colors used by the other) or if the door animation had some data which pointed to a specific palette (which could theoretically be edited to point to a different palette). Basically, I would like to know how the computer knows which palette to use for the frames in the animation.
I think the tile is acting like a "pointer" to the animation and the animation has a pallete assigned to it. It should just use the palette for the tileset shouldn't it? You can change the pallete of the animated flowers by simply changing those colours in the tileset.

If we can work out where the tile is being defined as a pointer to the animation from we should be able to add new animations. I'm pretty sure the animated tiles are designated by x,y co-ordinates where ever the animation pointers are.
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  #154    
Old August 21st, 2009, 11:51 AM
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Okay, here's something we can discuss. Nintendo and Gamefreak (I'll refer to them as "Nintendo") made the scripts in the ROMs we hack. If we change the values of things in the scripts, even with a hex editor, sometimes the scripts don't correctly. Does this mean Nintnedo are bad programmers because they're scripts can go faulty when edited or, are they good programmers because they can make it so their scripts can't be manipulated easily?
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Last edited by Pokepal17; August 21st, 2009 at 12:23 PM.
  #155    
Old August 21st, 2009, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Pokepal17 View Post
Okay, here's something we can discuss. Nintendo made the scripts in the ROMs we hack. If we change the values of things in the scripts, even with a hex editor, sometimes the scripts don't correctly. Does this mean Nintnedo are bad programmers because they're scripts can go faulty when edited or, are they good programmers because they can make it so their scripts can't be manipulated easily?
Most likely good,but what if Game Freak made the scripts?
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  #156    
Old August 21st, 2009, 12:22 PM
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Most likely good,but what if Game Freak made the scripts?
When I say Nintndo I mean Nintendo and Gamefreak, I'll edit my post.
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  #157    
Old August 21st, 2009, 12:26 PM
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more like lazy programers I dont hink they thought rom hacking was gona get so big but they were to lazy to make the scripts complex enough that they will be able to edit
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  #158    
Old August 21st, 2009, 03:58 PM
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lol wtf? They didn't make a scripting language for their games because they wanted people to be able to hack them. They did it so that all script writers didn't need to know ASM to write scripts. And if you make a script properly it will work 100% of the time. Its human errors that make scripts behave strangely.
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  #159    
Old August 21st, 2009, 04:15 PM
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they had to have some kind of scripting launguage the programs used to script to make faster programing
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  #160    
Old August 21st, 2009, 07:27 PM
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they had to have some kind of scripting launguage the programs used to script to make faster programing
I meant the reason they created a scripting language wasn't so that rom hackers would have an easier time.
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  #161    
Old August 21st, 2009, 07:29 PM
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acorse not like I said they proberly did not evern think there would be rom hackers
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  #162    
Old August 22nd, 2009, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Thrace View Post
lol wtf? They didn't make a scripting language for their games because they wanted people to be able to hack them. They did it so that all script writers didn't need to know ASM to write scripts. And if you make a script properly it will work 100% of the time. Its human errors that make scripts behave strangely.
Not all the time. Look at the legendary wildbattles in Fire Red. There's something missing to make it work right if we coded it from scratch, but et it still works. And even if we alter the value of the Pokemon, it stops working correctly.

Same with the game corner Pokemon script. It's not just me whose edited the variables for the POkemon and found then it doesn't work correctly. I recoded the script from scratch, exactly the same and then it worked.

So I don't always think it's human error.
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  #163    
Old August 22nd, 2009, 11:51 AM
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acorse not like I said they proberly did not evern think there would be rom hackers
That is something I highly doubt, rom hacking has been around for a while, whether it was hacking pokemon or hacking mario games, I seriously doubt that they wouldn't have thought of this.
Rom hacking isn't as big as you would think, neither is Emulation, even if people are hacking pokemon, even if they're emulating it or putting it on flashcards, they're still making millions off this franchise, emulation is barely making a dent in it.
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  #164    
Old August 22nd, 2009, 04:41 PM
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lol wtf? They didn't make a scripting language for their games because they wanted people to be able to hack them. They did it so that all script writers didn't need to know ASM to write scripts.
What are you talking about Thrace? If the programmers at gamefreak didn't know how to code in assembly, I doubt they would have been hired. The reason for this language is to save space. Think about it. Each command (as we know it), is just a construct of ASM code. If people don't understand (this is a pretty bad example), think of XSE's msgbox @msg 0x2. This is a construct using a loadpointer and callstd (I say loadpointer because msgbox is also technically another construct). Except the amount of code for a command is much more.
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  #165    
Old August 22nd, 2009, 05:10 PM
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I agrea with thethethethe
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  #166    
Old August 22nd, 2009, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by thethethethe View Post
What are you talking about Thrace? If the programmers at Gamefreak didn't know how to code in assembly, I doubt they would have been hired. The reason for this language is to save space. Think about it. Each command (as we know it), is just a construct of ASM code. If people don't understand (this is a pretty bad example), think of XSE's msgbox @msg 0x2. This is a construct using a loadpointer and callstd (I say loadpointer because msgbox is also technically another construct). Except the amount of code for a command is much more.
I agree with you.I mean,heck.If they don't know it how would we?
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  #167    
Old August 23rd, 2009, 01:42 AM
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Originally Posted by thethethethe View Post
What are you talking about Thrace? If the programmers at gamefreak didn't know how to code in assembly, I doubt they would have been hired. The reason for this language is to save space. Think about it. Each command (as we know it), is just a construct of ASM code. If people don't understand (this is a pretty bad example), think of XSE's msgbox @msg 0x2. This is a construct using a loadpointer and callstd (I say loadpointer because msgbox is also technically another construct). Except the amount of code for a command is much more.
I meant that they probably would just have had the programmers write the engine and a few programs so other people (story developers etc.) would be able to do the scripts much easier.

But yeah, I didn't think of that. The main reason was probably to save space.
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  #168    
Old August 24th, 2009, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Pokepal17 View Post
Not all the time. Look at the legendary wildbattles in Fire Red. There's something missing to make it work right if we coded it from scratch, but et it still works. And even if we alter the value of the Pokemon, it stops working correctly.
No, there's nothing missing. There are some specials indeed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by thethethethe View Post
What are you talking about Thrace? If the programmers at gamefreak didn't know how to code in assembly, I doubt they would have been hired. The reason for this language is to save space. Think about it. Each command (as we know it), is just a construct of ASM code. If people don't understand (this is a pretty bad example), think of XSE's msgbox @msg 0x2. This is a construct using a loadpointer and callstd (I say loadpointer because msgbox is also technically another construct). Except the amount of code for a command is much more.
Sorry, but the games weren't coded in assembly. They were coded using C. Which got later assembled in ASM. Regarding scripting... it was introduced by Gold and Silver. Think about it as convenient way to execute pre-defined ASM routines with ease, saving a lot of space too.
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Last edited by HackMew; August 24th, 2009 at 07:25 AM.
  #169    
Old August 25th, 2009, 12:58 PM
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On the topic of Nintendo and the codes, I personally think that its stupid to think that the code is how it is in regards of us hackers. I'm sure Nintendo exists, but why would they make it easier for people to edit it? I think that they just didn't care about us. In fact they are probably against ROM editing in a sense. You know how Mew and Deoxys won't obey if they are cheated in, and how the game will constantly mention in FireRed and LeafGreen that if it detects emulation that it will say "By the way, if you like this game, buy it or die.". This was on bulbapedia before you call BS. It says Rom dumpers have verified it, but I have no screencaps sadly. Its at the Seagallop Ferry if anyone wants to check it. Either way, I'm saying that they had us ROM Hackers either not in their minds, or in their minds in trying to stop us. Both fortunately and unfortunately, technology by the people will almost always triumph anti-piracy methods by video game companies. If it doesn't then it will be, so efforts are futile, but they must be made.

Anyways, how about a new topic for us guys making a hack? My hack is pretty much an expansion to FireRed, but as it develops more, I'll try and add more beef to that statement. I decided to replace some pokemon sprites in the game because I felt they didn't do justice to the Pokemon (why does Tyranitar, The Three Johto Beasts, and Dragonite look so cartoony, almost goofy?) or because I saw some sprites that looked a bit neater (Combusken's second frame of animation in Emerald looks totally cool!). I even saw some sprites from Pokemon Pinball Ruby and Sapphire and thought they looked so nice that I decided to "repair" them so they can go into the game (for those of you that didn't play Pokemon Pinball RS, the pokedex sprites for pokemon were cropped into a box.). Now I just need to understand why the hell unlz.gba won't insert them even with this tut...
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  #170    
Old August 25th, 2009, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by TehBazzard View Post
You know how Mew and Deoxys won't obey if they are cheated in, and how the game will constantly mention in FireRed and LeafGreen that if it detects emulation that it will say "By the way, if you like this game, buy it or die.". This was on bulbapedia before you call BS. It says Rom dumpers have verified it, but I have no screencaps sadly. Its at the Seagallop Ferry if anyone wants to check it. Either way, I'm saying that they had us ROM Hackers either not in their minds, or in their minds in trying to stop us.
That is some grade A wikipedia crap. I looked at that and didn't believe it so I checked. There's no mention of aything along those lines in the ROM anywhere.
But I actually agree with you. Nintendo did not have us in mind when they did anything in the game. Really, why would they? Why waste time and money just to annoy us ROM Hackers.
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  #171    
Old August 25th, 2009, 01:16 PM
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haha yeah that never happened to me
like I said they proberly didnt think it would happen and proberly didnt care they made so much monny of firered alone
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  #172    
Old August 25th, 2009, 01:25 PM
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haha yeah that never happened to me
like I said they proberly didnt think it would happen and proberly didnt care they made so much monny of firered alone
They obviously knew ROM hacking was going to happen. Hacking ROMs has been around for too long for them to have never thought of it. And I'm sure they care about it, too. They wouldn't bother selling the games if they didn't care if people were going to download the ROM for free and hack it.
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  #173    
Old August 25th, 2009, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sasquatchd00d View Post
They obviously knew ROM hacking was going to happen. Hacking ROMs has been around for too long for them to have never thought of it. And I'm sure they care about it, too. They wouldn't bother selling the games if they didn't care if people were going to download the ROM for free and hack it.
Well also I reliased you have to consider the fact that most of Pokemon target audience is kids. They probably would release it and still make a profit even with ROM hacking and dumping. Also there is the chance that Nintendo probably doesn't explore the community (or more like didn't at the time) to know about ROM hacking, but that seems unlikely. Further more, all companies probably are aware of piracy, but they won't let it get in the way of sales. I still stick with my idea. Also maybe Nintendo is aware of the fact that ROM hacking doesn't really hurt their sales because all hackers are pokemon fans and they buy the games in the series and likely already own the game that has the ROM they are editing (such as myself). Hell, we even put anti-piracy methods in OUR hacks so those damn rip-off salesmen stop putting our games into flash carts.
However, I think that why the code is so wonky for us might be due to coincidence. Its not like Nintendo used the tools that we use for our ROM hacks (except Mid2AGB).
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  #174    
Old August 27th, 2009, 05:45 AM
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hi sir tomato my password is syvniti
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Originally Posted by thethethethe View Post
What are you talking about Thrace? If the programmers at gamefreak didn't know how to code in assembly, I doubt they would have been hired. The reason for this language is to save space. Think about it. Each command (as we know it), is just a construct of ASM code. If people don't understand (this is a pretty bad example), think of XSE's msgbox @msg 0x2. This is a construct using a loadpointer and callstd (I say loadpointer because msgbox is also technically another construct). Except the amount of code for a command is much more.
Even though that, I doubt the games was written in ASM, propperly C, or some more "humanfreindly" Language?
Edit: Hackmew, You'll never make any freinds by being SOOO anoying...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sasquatchd00d View Post
They obviously knew ROM hacking was going to happen. Hacking ROMs has been around for too long for them to have never thought of it. And I'm sure they care about it, too. They wouldn't bother selling the games if they didn't care if people were going to download the ROM for free and hack it.
What kind of statement is that?
That doesn't make any sense?

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Originally Posted by TehBazzard View Post
Also maybe Nintendo is aware of the fact that ROM hacking doesn't really hurt their sales because all hackers are pokemon fans and they buy the games in the series and likely already own the game that has the ROM they are editing (such as myself).
I'm not a fan nor own the game.

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Originally Posted by TehBazzard View Post
However, I think that why the code is so wonky for us might be due to coincidence. Its not like Nintendo used the tools that we use for our ROM hacks (except Mid2AGB).
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Last edited by hi sir tomato my password is syvniti; August 27th, 2009 at 05:55 AM.
  #175    
Old August 27th, 2009, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by TehBazzard View Post
On the topic of Nintendo and the codes, I personally think that its stupid to think that the code is how it is in regards of us hackers. I'm sure Nintendo exists, but why would they make it easier for people to edit it? I think that they just didn't care about us. In fact they are probably against ROM editing in a sense. You know how Mew and Deoxys won't obey if they are cheated in, and how the game will constantly mention in FireRed and LeafGreen that if it detects emulation that it will say "By the way, if you like this game, buy it or die.". This was on bulbapedia before you call BS. It says Rom dumpers have verified it, but I have no screencaps sadly. Its at the Seagallop Ferry if anyone wants to check it. Either way, I'm saying that they had us ROM Hackers either not in their minds, or in their minds in trying to stop us. Both fortunately and unfortunately, technology by the people will almost always triumph anti-piracy methods by video game companies. If it doesn't then it will be, so efforts are futile, but they must be made.
Hold your horses. Don't mix hacking and cheating. Nintendo/GameFreak will do anything possible to stop cheaters. That's why they introduced, for example, a checksum in the Pokémon core data (which is encrypted too), or why since FR/LG there are no static offsets for bag items and such, or why cheated Mew/Deoxys won't obey. Also, you misunderstood the "buy or die" thingy. The game won't constanstly mention it or whatever:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulbapedia
I couldn't believe it, but it's actually there. Me and Andrea did some comparing. His Fire Red 1.0 didn't have it, and mine did. The original Auroraticket message is at 0x17FC5F, but is repointed, copied and expanded at 0x71A23D, which is the start of a large block of free space, leaving the original unused. This is why Hfc2x couldn't find anything but empty space. The "Buy it or Die" ROMs are technically just quick and easy hacks. Still, it's fairly innocious and the guy does say having an Auroraticket is rare. I think the word "some" would be appropriate. --Kyoufu Kawa
The full message is "Oh! That's an AURORATICKET!\nNow that is rare.\lWe'll be happy to take you to\nBIRTH ISLAND anytime.\lBy the way: If you\nlike this game, buy it or die." Whoever modified it, he/she didn't have the source code, otherwhise the rest of the ROM data would have been shifted, considering the modified message is longer.

While they can make life harder for cheaters, they can't do much at all (if they would actually care anyway) to prevent hackers editing their games.
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