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  #26    
Old August 24th, 2009, 07:02 AM
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Don't use pictures as maps; it will take up too much memory. A tile-based system is the best choice for this. You could look into how RMXP stores its map files, and make a script to convert them from that.
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  #27    
Old August 24th, 2009, 08:13 AM
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It doesn't take up too much memory. It is the basis of DS games. All the backgrounds on Pokemon games are pictures, with 3D and 2D sprites placed on them to give the illusion they are maps. Technically a tile based system for say RMXP is just a front end for the user to design the pictures which will be loaded onto the PC, albeit in RMXP it is much more sophisticated bringing in priorities etc.
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  #28    
Old August 25th, 2009, 07:48 AM
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I didn't mean RAM, I meant storage (disk space).
And actually, Nintendo's handheld consoles are designed specifically for tile-based display; a tile-based map will be much more efficient than a single large image. Partly because if you use tiles, the DS only has to load the few tiles around the player (on the screen), while if you use a large image, it will have to load the whole thing. I'm not sure on how much memory the DS has, but I'm pretty sure loading 9 1024x1024 images (32 by 32 tiles; the same as D/P) will use up a large chunk of that. And what if we want to make our maps larger?
I know RMXP loads the whole map image at once, but I don't think the DS works the same way...
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  #29    
Old August 25th, 2009, 10:37 AM
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Due to the lack of such features in the homebrew community's librariess (PAlib, ndslib) a tile based system is very complicated albeit feasable. The only problem is the current tile-based maps are completly script dependant, they are not very user-friendly (ie no map editor) you have to define every tile in an array :/ It is much simpler to just load an image onto the RAM (4 MB) and go from there. I agree that large maps will be taxing on the RAM, but when I complete the map connections, that should'nt be a big problem.
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  #30    
Old August 25th, 2009, 10:42 AM
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Just to say you can get ram add on packs that go in the gba port. This could potentialy lighten the load on the ram. So it could be recomended that you have a ram add on pack when you play a game made with pokeds.
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  #31    
Old August 25th, 2009, 10:44 AM
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Na, the 4 MB is plenty for you to work with, if Nintendo can run their games on 4 MB of RAM, there is no reason we can't.
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  #32    
Old August 25th, 2009, 10:47 AM
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Oh well the ideas still there if i comes down to it.
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  #33    
Old August 25th, 2009, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Wichu View Post
32 by 32 tiles; the same as D/P
Wrong. Diamond and Pearl don't use 32 by 32 tiles.
They aint near that size. They are bigger then the traditional 16 by 16 used by the advanced games, but not 32 by 32 pixels. The characters are only 17/18 pixels in width anyways- and since pokemon uses a grid based system for movement, there is no way that any tiles are 32 by 32.
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  #34    
Old August 25th, 2009, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Neo-Dragon View Post
Wrong. Diamond and Pearl don't use 32 by 32 tiles.
They aint near that size. They are bigger then the traditional 16 by 16 used by the advanced games, but not 32 by 32 pixels. The characters are only 17/18 pixels in width anyways- and since pokemon uses a grid based system for movement, there is no way that any tiles are 32 by 32.
Gen 4 games doesn't have tiles, the measures are based on centimeters... well, maybe inches, I don't know what system is used by you, who live on U.S.A.
As you know, the game is on 3d and the tiles maybe a lot more small, but the textures are resized to fit the surfaces. It's a little bit complicated to understand, I think.
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  #35    
Old August 26th, 2009, 02:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Neo-Dragon View Post
Wrong. Diamond and Pearl don't use 32 by 32 tiles.
They aint near that size. They are bigger then the traditional 16 by 16 used by the advanced games, but not 32 by 32 pixels. The characters are only 17/18 pixels in width anyways- and since pokemon uses a grid based system for movement, there is no way that any tiles are 32 by 32.
I didn't mean that the D/P tiles (or grid) were 32x32, I meant that each world map square is 32 by 32 'tiles' (or takes 32 steps to travel across). Anyway, I now realise I was wrong, and the actual map chunks loaded into memory are 16 tiles wide, by 16 tiles tall. D/P textures still use 16x16 tiles; while the OWs have become bigger, the actual textures are still the same. If you stand next to an NPC, then your sprite overlaps theirs.

Alexandre, if you use whole images for maps, then you'll still use up a lot of RAM... 16-color images wouldn't work with the large number of colours used in a tileset, so I'll assume your maps are 256-color images. Therefore, each pixel takes up 1 byte. Assuming a typical map size of 32x32 tiles (or 512x512 pixels), each map would take up 256 KB (512x512 bytes) of memory. Since you have to load the maps surrounding the map your character is standing on too, the typical number of maps in memory will be 3 or 4. That's already 1/4 of the DS's memory used up. If you include a second layer (for treetops, housetops etc), then that doubles to half of the DS's memory. So you've used up half your memory on merely displaying four maps. If you're in a place with more maps near it, such as Hearthome City (you'd have to load 6 32x32 maps at once), or have other things such as weather and particle effects eating up memory (if you decide to use them), and you're probably going to find yourself running out eventually.
If you use tile-based maps, you only have to load a tileset image, which is a few KB at most, and the tilemaps for the on-screen map, which are even smaller. It's a much more efficient method. I think that if you make an attempt to script a tile-based system now, you won't regret it later. Maybe you could try coding something else, such as the battle system, first (to build up your experience)?

Surely you could make an RGSS script to convert RMXP maps into arrays usable by DS Game Maker? The RMXP map format isn't very hard to understand...
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  #36    
Old August 26th, 2009, 02:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Wichu View Post
Surely you could make an RGSS script to convert RMXP maps into arrays usable by DS Game Maker? The RMXP map format isn't very hard to understand...
The problem is I don't know where to start, I have always been an editor, not a from-ground-up scripter. This project was to help me overcome that. I don't have much experience in the .rxdata formats, as it never came up while I was programming for Blue Chrome, and my previous projects. Maybe you could lend a hand in telling me the basics of the I/O with the RMXP data? :p
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  #37    
Old August 26th, 2009, 06:11 AM
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DS GAME Engene the coolness is killing me *died* must get pokeds*zombie talk* just kittying it is cooooooooooooooooooool

And 4 questione form a emu user
1:Will it have a action replay code systam?*0.0*
2:how much room will it take a Pokemon Platinum.nds file is 128mb
3:will the game making be simalar to the RMXP
4:and the last question will it play online like wifi
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Last edited by megasuper123; August 26th, 2009 at 06:42 AM. Reason: Your double post has been automatically merged.
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  #38    
Old August 26th, 2009, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by megasuper123 View Post
DS GAME Engene the coolness is killing me *died* must get pokeds*zombie talk* just kittying it is cooooooooooooooooooool

And 4 questione form a emu user
1:Will it have a action replay code systam?*0.0*
2:how much room will it take a Pokemon Platinum.nds file is 128mb
3:will the game making be simalar to the RMXP
4:and the last question will it play online like wifi
1. dunno, probably not.
2. depends on how big the user makes it
3.sort of
4. no
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  #39    
Old August 26th, 2009, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Alexandre View Post
1. dunno, probably not.
2. depends on how big the user makes it
3.sort of
4. no
1:ohh
2:no limit so i can make a 1 gb pokemon game or 1 Terabyte!!!!!!

3:yay
4:no wifi
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  #40    
Old August 26th, 2009, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by megasuper123 View Post
2:no limit so i can make a 1 gb pokemon game or 1 Terabyte!!!!!!
No, because
1. The RAM would overload, and explode in your face.
2. MicroSD cards are maximum 16 GB.

I meant that you could make a big Pokemon game. Not an exaggerated one.
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  #41    
Old August 27th, 2009, 10:25 AM
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Just so everyone knows, this project has not been abandoned, I have just come back from holiday, and I'm a bit jet lagged and I am busy with preparing for school ( fingers crossed for it being delayed cuz of H1N1 ;D)
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  #42    
Old August 28th, 2009, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Alexandre View Post
The problem is I don't know where to start, I have always been an editor, not a from-ground-up scripter. This project was to help me overcome that. I don't have much experience in the .rxdata formats, as it never came up while I was programming for Blue Chrome, and my previous projects. Maybe you could lend a hand in telling me the basics of the I/O with the RMXP data? :p
Use the load_data (or pbLoadRxData) method to load the map file as an RPG::Map object. The actual tiles are stored in its 'data' variable, as a Table. To load the tile ID of a tile, use map.data[x,y,layer]. Remember to take 1 away from the layer; it has to be 0, 1, or 2.
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4. no
I'm pretty sure there's some documentation somewhere about using Wi-Fi... Obviously, you can't connect to Nintendo's servers, but you can set up your own.
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  #43    
Old August 28th, 2009, 05:46 AM
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Thanks, and PALib supports wifi no problem, by no I meant I didn't plan to have wifi features in the engine.
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  #44    
Old August 28th, 2009, 06:11 AM
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Thanks, and PALib supports wifi no problem, by no I meant I didn't plan to have wifi features in the engine.
please do umm please 999xPLEASE DO
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  #45    
Old August 28th, 2009, 12:56 PM
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I didn`t know DS game maker was PAlib, I`ll have to try it out. Also, you guys are all saying that DP are 3D, while I rememer reading on Bulbapedia that only Platinum is true 3D, and DP simply use lots of sprites.
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  #46    
Old August 28th, 2009, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty96 View Post
I didn`t know DS game maker was PAlib, I`ll have to try it out. Also, you guys are all saying that DP are 3D, while I rememer reading on Bulbapedia that only Platinum is true 3D, and DP simply use lots of sprites.
Yeah, its practically a GUI to make using PALib alot simpler.
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  #47    
Old August 28th, 2009, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Smitty96 View Post
I didn`t know DS game maker was PAlib, I`ll have to try it out. Also, you guys are all saying that DP are 3D, while I rememer reading on Bulbapedia that only Platinum is true 3D, and DP simply use lots of sprites.
D/P/Pt are all 3D. Pt just has different textures and models.
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  #48    
Old August 29th, 2009, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Smitty96 View Post
I didn`t know DS game maker was PAlib, I`ll have to try it out. Also, you guys are all saying that DP are 3D, while I rememer reading on Bulbapedia that only Platinum is true 3D, and DP simply use lots of sprites.
With "true 3d" they meant the enhanced engine on the Torn World, they USED the very power of the isometric engine they had/have. But is not like DP were not 3d.
Actually there's a very very cool cheat code for Pearl that allows to change the camera angles, haha, it's very funny to change them, you can see every nintendo tricks, like the trees being planes at 45° of inclination towards the camera to make them look like vertical trees.
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  #49    
Old August 29th, 2009, 01:08 PM
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I never did like D/P but this could come out a good thing :D
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  #50    
Old August 31st, 2009, 08:03 PM
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DS Game Maker enables wifi
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