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  #1    
Old 2 Weeks Ago (12:06 PM).
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Okay so I get it, you play Gamefreak Pokemon games and instead of wanting to be bold with ideas, you think well if they've made millions off 10 year old starter stories maybe I can too, right? Wrong!!!
Nothing that irks me more than a plot that starts with "You just turned 10 years old ..." or "You're receiving your first Pokemon after finally becoming old enough..." Like I understand there is a lot more to a story than meets the eye, but that is an IMMEDIATE thread closure for me.
I think plots should be more unique ... like Twisted Mind where your Mom goes missing and bizarre stuff is happening and the guy that made her disappear is helping you out, or Legend of Zelda where it's literally a Pokemon-induced Zelda game, or my hack Discovery (had to) where you are a sailor in the navy and get shipwrecked on an island and it also happens to be the discovery of pokemon or Pokemon TRE2: Team Rocket Edition where you play as team rocket, or even pokemon fissures where its involving mystery about fissures, where you probably start out as a kid but hey at least Magic covered that part up with an interesting storyline, etc.
There should be more of these. Plots that excite the player to be playing something uniquely different in a story but relatable to Pokemon unless the direction is to steer away from Pokemon (LoZ). Have a hack about zombies where you don't use pokemon but guns and the HP is based on your team and the enemy sprites are zombies of different types ... create a medieval hack where you are a slave and have to battle your way out of coliseums and gain your freedom or die, maybe you're a demon hunter sent to Hell to save a beloved one and have to defeat masterful beasts of great evil ... IDK it's really not that hard to brainstorm something better than "hey I'm 10 now give me a starter that is probably one of the starters of a gamefreak game".

Any thoughts on this? What do you guys think about this for plots? Do you want to see more unique storylines or do you like the simplisticness to 10yo stories?
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  #2    
Old 2 Weeks Ago (12:09 PM).
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Yeah nah I like the regular story format.
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  #3    
Old 2 Weeks Ago (12:16 PM).
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Plenty of hacks follow the classical formula. It's literally canon in the Pokemon universe, so I don't think it's a bad thing. The important part is what happens after you have your Pokemon. Oh and in Fissures you start off as a gym leader who already has Pokemon ><.
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  #4    
Old 2 Weeks Ago (12:18 PM).
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It's not like it's hard to make the regular story format engaging. I mean, Game Freak really hasn't set the story bar unattainably high. If you can craft a believable villainous team that does things that aren't "lol lets r00l da worldd", make your rivals at least a little bit interesting, and pace out story segments well, than you're already doing better than most of the main series games.

I find its difficult to not do the "you just turned ten and want a Pokemon" because if you start the character at eighteen and it's established that there are Trainers who have been training Pokemon for eight years at that point, why did the main character wait so long? I mean, if it was socially acceptable to walk out of the house at ten with a death machine at your command, what stopped your eighteen year old main character from doing so? In my hack, I'm just keeping the age ambiguous, as Game Freak should. That way, the player can insert their own age and the player's just "old enough" or finally "decided they are ready" to go on a journey. The only problem is still living with your parents if the player's in the mid-to-late twenties and decides that that's the age of their character. Either way, short and simple sidestepping which doesn't make the player go through mental gymnastics to justify is the best way to do this, in my opinion.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago (12:24 PM).
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i prefer the regular format with the 10 year starting his/her journey, because that's just how official pokemon games are, and if the hack does that, it makes it feel more like a cannon game. it makes it feel like it's part of the timeline of events, and i like that. of course, i do really like games that aren't the original format, like discovery, but it can feel like its just a "side timeline" and doesn't really relate to any of the other games making it feel less cannon. with games that start off with, for example, an 18 year old getting their first pokemon, it has to explain why they didn't get it at 10 like everyone else does, and that kinda bugs me
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Old 2 Weeks Ago (12:27 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Deokishisu:
It's not like it's hard to make the regular story format engaging. I mean, Game Freak really hasn't set the story bar unattainably high. If you can craft a believable villainous team that does things that aren't "lol lets r00l da worldd", make your rivals at least a little bit interesting, and pace out story segments well, than you're already doing better than most of the main series games.

I find its difficult to not do the "you just turned ten and want a Pokemon" because if you start the character at 18 and it's established that there are Trainers who have been training Pokemon for eight years at that point, why did the main character wait so long? I mean, if it was socially acceptable to walk out of the house at ten with a death machine at your command, what stopped your 18 year old main character from doing so? In my hack, I'm just keeping the age ambiguous, as Game Freak should. That way, the player can insert their own age and the player's just "old enough" or finally "decided they are ready" to go on a journey. Short and simple sidestepping.
I agree, Game Freak got away with simple stories and graphics, but I don't think in this day and age it should be carried out so lightly. I do agree about what is to come and how it can work, but still you're 10 years old... your parents just gonna let you roam an entire region by yourself? I mean Brendan fought off with a Kyogre and Groudon ... pokemon considered to be legendary. Things that big and weighing that much could've just chomped down on that kid and killed him lol. Plus it leads to an unhealthy gambling addiction as a child... You are essentially betting every time you battle that you could win and take that person's money. Lol I know that's on the extreme end of things but I agree, age shouldn't be a determinant factor for plots and should be left out. I also think storylines should be more interesting though and without a unique story it really is hard to catch my eye
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  #7    
Old 2 Weeks Ago (12:37 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Le pug:
Plus it leads to an unhealthy gambling addiction as a child... You are essentially betting every time you battle that you could win and take that person's money. Lol I know that's on the extreme end of things but I agree, age shouldn't be a determinant factor for plots and should be left out. I also think storylines should be more interesting though and without a unique story it really is hard to catch my eye
If your profession is Pokemon Trainer, and your income is dependent on winning battles and this is socially acceptable in your culture, I wouldn't view that as gambling. More like merit pay. I mean, I think that's more of a gameplay thing anyway. I bet that official league battles have a money requirement, to help maintain league infrastructure and to discourage novices from zerging Pokemon Gyms, but if we were to extrapolate a bit, I doubt the random Trainers you find on routes would always make it for cash. I bet it'd just be a minority. But ingame, the player's gotta make some dough somehow.

As for ten year olds defeating titans, I agree that it's ridiculous. It'd be more acceptable if this stupid ten year old decided to do this all on their own, but they're encouraged to by adults! Spoilers in the next sentence for the Delta Episode. Like, there's literally a meteor coming to destroy the earth and they let a ten year old run around trying to handle it while everyone who is actually capable is sitting on their hands in Mossdeep Space Center. If the adults were doing their own thing and the main character wandered off on his or her own to try to help, it'd make it so at least the adults aren't all idiots. This is just one of those things that I can't excuse under the "this is just the culture of the Pokemon World" category. It's just bad writing.
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  #8    
Old 2 Weeks Ago (05:10 PM).
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But.. but isnt it great to be a 10 year old champion? xD
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  #9    
Old 2 Weeks Ago (05:23 PM).
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Having a kid turn 10 and giving him a new Pokemon doesn't necessarily mean that the story will be a bad one. Sure it's been done a thousand times but it can still be done well, and as long as you can still have a compelling story with a young protagonist it's no reason to just discard the game simply because you've seen that formula before.

I do have to admit though it is a bit stale, and it's not because the protagonist is 10. The reason it's stale is because every dang one of them has to have an evil team in it that wants the end of the world, and only you can stop it. I get that it's a successful formula, and you can have an evil team in a Pokemon game and still have it unique and fun, but without some kind of lampshade, unique element, or unforeseen twist you just have a palette swap of a main Pokemon game.
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  #10    
Old 2 Weeks Ago (11:07 PM).
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They made the Protagonist as a 10 year old since Game Freak thought the one who'll play is also a kid. Normally what I thought but anyways I think the classic thing is not bad. If it ever has a great story aside then it's fine by me.
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  #11    
Old 2 Weeks Ago (12:11 AM).
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I don't really like drastically changing the story around, some of your stories just don't fit in a Pokemon game. They feel out of place. It's Pokemon, it works well, there's no need to change everything just so it's "different".
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  #12    
Old 1 Week Ago (10:24 PM). Edited 1 Week Ago by Rulep.
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I'm actually surprised seeing people not liking a different kind of story considering these are mods/non vanilla. It's true that people who make a non silent main character or not the "10 year old story" do a bad job almost all the time. Though if done right it deserves a chance. I took a few basic English courses in College and I think I should share some just in case. I mean writing a video game story is not the same as writing a novel. Nor is novel and movie writing the same.

101 Basic Writing Tips

1. Many new people to story writing and game development think making a good story in a game is JUST putting a lot of text boxes and cutscenes. Here I would disagree for obvious reasons. First there are much better ways to tell a story in a video game. Maybe with environments, character's personality , npc hints, sound, or the main story foretelling something you can foresee coming up soon. Example Book: "Jack enters the burning forest." You already have textures and game graphics for that, so no need to write that. Remember always keep the writing to a reasonable amount. You can add a some more, since this is a RPG game.

2. Create your story mid game development. Why? Think about it...you have to stick with 1 story, sets of areas, etc. This will kill your creativity. Eventually you will just give up or have a bad story because you got tangled up from trying way too hard plan everything ahead and make it match each other. Even worse you might think of a cool idea, area or whatever WILL have to be scraped/trashed because it doesn't match your story or game engine/tool editor limits.
(Sorry I forgot this game is pre-built, so just ignore unless you are making your own custom game on Unity, Unreal Engine, C++, etc)

3. Never use unneeded text boxes and words much like filler in some animes. Never try to use creative words, foreign phrase or a scientific words when making a story for a mass audience. Just make sure it's readable for the target audience. Would you put Shakes Spear in a little kids show?

4. If you are making a very serious story that's not light hearted like Earthbound. It's best you NEVER put your "opinions" anywhere. Especially philosophical stories. Make each side "bad" and "good" look like responsible people. The bad side shouldn't be goofy, dumb, etc just because they are "bad". Or you will just look like a hypocrite and stereotypical to the reader.

5. Making the hero, very basic template: If you're going to make a serious story this basic template should help. The hero is not a god. He will not be a cheesy b rated action character who will easily mows through millions of zombies. He will get mislead, lied and even taste defeat few times. Give a reason why hero is doing this all. He needs some kind motivation. This will make him more human and relate-able. Use metaphors and make him "human" in general. (A full template would take an essay or 2 to cover the surface. This is very basic.)

6. Mature does not mean dark graphics, drugs, guns, violence, swearing and blood doesn't equal a more mature game. What kind of motivations and and events that led up to them are. Remember the hero is not doing all of this for fun or to be a troll/jerk. Maybe he resorted to violence to protect someone from getting hurt. Basically be reasonable with these "topics" and not blatantly add them. You can create a mature game without all the FPS stereotypical.

7. Always take feedback. Keep quiet, listen and never argue (even if the feedback is nonsense). Some of the testers are telling you how to make your story more awesome for free after all. Keep all the good ones in a text document I would say. Remember you are most likely a designer or artist not a director/story writer.

8. Always write your text boxes and stories a few times. Much like writing drafts and a final copy in school. You WILL find mistakes.

9. Intros, starting and finishing a story with good pacing: I will make my short Pokemon story here. I will make it short and straight to the point for teaching purposes.

"It's a dark night when suddenly something mysterious happens! (The intro should almost always start with a big bang or mystery otherwise the player may yawn and find a different story.) Fades into main character* He is waking up and does his normal stuff he does everyday. (Notice how I slowed down the story a bit for the reader to get his/her thoughts in mind while in a relaxing state? Also why boring everyday stuff? This will give us a chance to color out the characters personality, habits, etc. Maybe the rival or another person can be introduced here and you can see their behaviors with each other. ) Suddenly the main characters are called in Professor Oak's Pokemon lab. Something big has happen and Oak needs their help! Now it's time for our young trainers to start their adventure. (Now we spiked the story pacing and action up. You might think that every new main story text has to be more epic than the previous moment, but NOPE. It's like a roller coaster in real life. There is slow moments, fast and hills. But do make the mid and end game part of the stories a little more exciting than early game.) Our hero now slowly and relaxes walks through Route A. Here comes the first wild area! There are Pokemons everywhere, the forest looks nice and their is a new world to be learned. The excitement and adventure starts. (Once again the story spikes. Notice how this is a adventure spike rather than a mysterious spike? Try using different spikes such as romance, action, tension, etc.) The hero now investigates Route B, however for the hero this is becoming routine rather than an adventure. He wants more excitement. While he thought that he say his first gym or Team Rocket member. (The story is starting to become absent. time to throw a spike before the player gets bored of this story. Ah the main villain/group or object just started it's first appearance.) Many routes and gyms later the hero fights the legendary Pokemon or champion. He wins and walks down a sun set with his girlfriend and the end. (Make sure the final battle is never the ending or the player will be excited suddenly it ends. "WHERE IS MY SEQUEL?!!!" The romance scene should relax them and make them think about the ending. Now that they are relaxed they won't be tearing their hair.)

10. This is my opinion and may or may not be true.
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  #13    
Old 1 Week Ago (12:17 AM).
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I might as well break my haitus here on these forums and throw in my opinion.

In theory, I'm fine with creative, different storylines. If they're executed correctly, I'd play them for days. ROM Hacking is an expression of creativity using a foundation laid out for you, and who am I to say that people shouldn't use their creativity and go wild?

Notice my emphasis on theory though. The reason I'm against "different" storylines is that usually, the hacks that try to be "different" just fail. They fail. I'm not going to name hacks, but I've seen plenty of examples of hacks that try to be dark and edgy, and just utterly fail to impress me, with their bad characterization, plotholes, lack of thought put into the story, etc. The plot becomes a victim of its own complexity.

The Gamefreak "10 year old on a journey" plot trope is relatively simple though. A great formula for an idiotproof plot. A young trainer going on a magical journey into a world full of fantasy creatures, with the occasional drop of strife to make things interesting. It's simple, it's easy to work with, and it works. It psyducking works. The fact that I've been buying Pokemon games for 12 years, and the fact that millions of other people have pretty much done the same thing, is a testament to that.

Want to engage me with your hack? You'll have to go against an established formula that has ensnared me for most of my life. And you'll have to make sure your custom formula works. I don't care if you want to make a hack with a different storyline or not. But please, for the love of God, make a hack that doesn't make me feel like I've been playing a fanfiction simulator instead of an actual game.

Also, on an unrelated note, Le I hope your hack will prove me wrong. Maybe your hack will be the hack that'll actually engage me. We'll see.
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Old 1 Week Ago (07:06 PM).
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It seems like the problem with all of this is that hackers are notoriously bad writers. Even actual writers might have problems translating their plot into the two-lines-per-textbox Pokemon videogame format. Put that responsibility on a kid (because, let's face it, we're talking about the average hacker) with no idea how to write even their English class essays, but still wants their hack to be "different". It's going to be a train wreck. An unmitigated disaster.

Like HidoranBlaze said, the stock Pokemon plot is almost idiot-proof. It's basically mad libs. And hackers still screw it up. It's the general inability of our community to write any kind of plot that's interesting, even within the generous scaffolding that GameFreak provides.

Quote originally posted by Rulep:
Cut to maintain the illusion of brevity. If you've read my posts, you're probably thinking, "Deokishisu's never brief". You would be right.
As for Rulep's guidelines, that's basically fanfiction writing for dummies. Other than point one, which can be summed up to "don't exposition dump in textboxes", and point eight about being aware of plot pacing, the rest is either common sense or unnecessary/bad advice.

Point 2 assumes that you threw together a bad story and then painted yourself into a corner while crafting your game areas. In Pokemon hacking, it's almost always possible to repurpose/reposition things during development if things aren't working. You don't have a deadline that you must ship by. You can take all the time you need before sharing. I'd suggest having a thin storyline when you start that you flesh out fully (for yourself, so that YOU know what's going on) by the second gym. The plot generally meanders a bit before being nailed down by the second gym in retail Pokemon anyway. Crafting your plot too late is a recipe for disaster. Without direction while creating the other pieces of the hack's puzzle, the plot will seem like an afterthought to anyone paying attention. Because it will be an afterthought.

Point 3 is just ridiculous. If you have a decent vocabulary, you're doing yourself a disservice if you're not using it. Just because a word has four-syllables doesn't mean that you can't use it, especially if it has the perfect connotation (or baggage, as I like to refer to it) for what you're trying to convey. This point should be not to use words that you're not entirely comfortable with. Seriously, if you don't know what a word means without looking it up, you won't be familiar with its connotation either, which can change the meaning of the whole scene. For example, the use of "animosity" instead of "malice". They both mean similar things when used in similar contexts, but their connotations are entirely different. The catch here is that text is never given by an omniscient narrator in Pokemon, so these words have to make sense coming out of whatever character's mouth they're coming out of, which will deepen characterization as well.

Point 4 is just worded confusingly. If your hack's plot has a message, don't spoonfeed it to the readers by telling them in a textbox exactly what it is. If you have a megacorporation destroying your environment and your message is "Corporations have too much power and too little governmental oversight to prevent them from screwing everyone over," that should never be stated outright ingame. Make that subtle subtext that the player just understands by the falling action (that's after the climax). You can put your opinions in the hack all you want. It's your work.

Point 5. Thanks for telling us that the hero isn't a god in the stock Pokemon games. Unless you're crafting some sort of Greek tragedy or giving the hero speech, this point is completely moot. Even if you are, it's common sense. The stock Pokemon games give the protagonist all of the motivation he or she needs to continue on with the plot. There's a reason that badges are scattered alongside the plot like checkpoints to move things along.

Point 6 is more a critique of the "mature" label in general when used by the average hacker (read: children). Mature doesn't mean sex or drugs or whatever the buzzwords are now. Mature is depth of plot. Mature is depth of character. Mature is depth of scenario. Big Hero 6 is an example of a plot with some mature themes, one of which is a child dealing with grief, mourning, and loss. They didn't need any sex or drugs to make that a mature theme. Plus, I'm of the opinion that if you've never had sex, you shouldn't be writing it into your plot. Write what you know, and then extrapolate that into your setting.

Point 7 is spot on, with one caveat. Many of your players are going to be children with no idea how to craft a plot either. Much of the feedback you receive is going to be garbage, unfortunately. Go into any hack's thread and you're going to see "feedback" about what the hacker should add. Feedback was in quotes back there for a reason, winkwinknudgenudge.
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Old 1 Week Ago (10:44 PM). Edited 1 Week Ago by Rulep.
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Quote originally posted by Deokishisu:
As for Rulep's guidelines, that's basically fanfiction writing for dummies. Other than point one, which can be summed up to "don't exposition dump in textboxes", and point eight about being aware of plot pacing, the rest is either common sense or unnecessary/bad advice.
I do agree my tips could have been worded better, but sometimes I feel I'm talking to a stone wall.

2. I never actually rom hacked a Pokemon game, so I may have been wrong. But working on a Unity game is different. You have to worry about the mechanics, graphics, game play. Planning what kind of story way too early can cause bad work flow and management. Especially assuming you don't know limits. You will have holes in your plots. Uncharted 3 is a good example. But since it's solo work with a longer deadline I can agree with you for the most part.

3. Like I said know your audience. I wouldn't use doctor or programming terms in a Mario or Pokemon game. Also 90-99% of the players won't know big words. As sad it may sound.%

4. Like you said 101 guide for dummies. I tried making it short and simple for a complete beginner to understand. Basically I said all alignments should get treated almost equally and to make them a little realistic rather than pure comic relief or a 1d 90s cartoon villain.

5. Obviously not a god. Speaking more at a metaphor angle. Basically just make the hero human relate able. He/she has wins, losses, learns much like everyone does in life. You would be surprised how many movies and games fail to follow a few basic rules.

6. Almost exactly as I said. Blatantly putting drugs, grim graphics, swearing does not make the game more mature. If it had some good writing and a follow ups than it would be more responsible (yeah I could have worded that better)

7. Yeah I should have been less vague. Obviously it's not a good idea to take every feedback. But it's always a nice idea to keep feedback in a text document for the future. Earthbound maker actually shared that tip somewhat. When he wrote the Earthbound texts he didn't know how to program that in and needed help from a few staff. He would watch their reactions while they read and program the story.

I shall clean clean up my post when I get the chance.

Edit: Cleaned up. Thoughts?
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  #16    
Old 1 Week Ago (06:02 AM). Edited 1 Week Ago by machomuu.
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Mhmm, time to copypasta my feelings on the issue, since I'm very adamant about this.

Quote:
Actually, on that point...I do want to talk about something that kept me from coming back for a long time. Even before I had this hack idea, I would glance at the hacks forum every now and again, and I would feel a little sad. Sad because I'd always hoped that there would be more non-GF styled hacks, but even today I see things like "You are a X, a kid living in Y town. You aspire to collect the badges of the Z region, while combating the evil W team." With variations here or there. And this isn't a bad thing in itself, I've seen some rather impressive hacks come out of this.

Though it still makes me feel as if there is so much untapped potential that can and should come out of Pokemon rom hacking. I've watched as the capabilities of hacking have evolved and, similarly, how the hacks have. Yet, the more time that passes, the more I wonder "Why aren't there more non-Pokemon hacks" or "Why aren't there more gym-less or team-less hacks out there?" I can completely understand an up and comer thinking learning that they can make their own game and then immediately jumping for the GF formula, but I find it staggering how few hacks actually try to be either of those (and, that I know of, no complete ones exist).

Though, for me, it would be ideal that less Pokemon-based Pokemon hacks would be created thanks to the games' malleable nature (in terms of hacking), I would even like to see more gym-less or team-less hacks in the case of those that are about Pokemon, for the sole reason that I think it bottlenecks creativity when people limit themselves to those two ideas. Not to say you couldn't have a non-linear adventure type hack with gyms, indeed you could, but having them as mandatory points to advance would make that difficult. In fact, many times I read through stories and wonder why there are teams or gyms at all, and why the hack didn't just opt for more free-form antagonists or some other form of boss battles, ones that, in the grand scheme, didn't seem like mandatory side attractions to the story.

One hack that I think takes this idea and does wonderful things with it is Pokemon Ruby Destiny - Rescue Rangers. Though I didn't notice when I was younger, that was quite the unique hack. Not only did it boast a party system for most of its playthrough (which is something that pretty much unique to it, I don't think you can find it in other hacks), but it also managed to have quests and a lot of side features without being completely nonlinear (and, at the same time, not being too linear and opening up as the player progressed).

It's that sort of non-standard concept that I would like to see more of. Whether that will actually happen or not...I'm not sure. After all, I see a lot of Rom Hacking forum dwellers saying things like "Once I get done with X hack, I'll play this,"...and I see it a lot. Heck, I look at the counter for how many people are viewing the forum sometimes and just awe in wonder. As a result, it would seem that I'm an incredibly small minority in this, so I guess all I can say is that this is my 2 cents on...the state of Pokemon hacks. I might be asking for too much, or maybe even expecting too much, but I'll at least remain hopeful.
And that still stands.

Quote originally posted by Magic:
Plenty of hacks follow the classical formula. It's literally canon in the Pokemon universe, so I don't think it's a bad thing.
But the hacks aren't canon, so I'm not seeing why they have to confine themselves to this "Eight badge, evil teams, Elite Four" structure. I'd say it holds hacking and Pokemon's potential back exponentially, and generally lends itself to simplistic storytelling and the lingering question of "why am I doing this?". GF gets away with this because it's a way to keep their target audience open and not feel too engaged in the story. The games, after all, are about beating the Elite Four, the teams are just a distraction and a device to allow characters to grow and the story to exist- but really, they aren't that important. If you took them out, you wouldn't feel like you lost much; after all, they aren't everywhere, you only really meet them every once in a while and take them out in the same way one would take out other trainers or gym leaders. But rarely is there actual motivation for this because, ironically, the evil teams actually manage to affect you less than Team Rocket from the anime. Heck, it seems strange that teams are "teams" at all- why not just make them organizations or groups or...untitled antagonists? Honestly, adding "team" to your organization's name really downplays the fear or intimidation they might otherwise exude.

But there's no reason hacks need to be simplistic. There is quite literally no reason that gyms and evil teams need to exist. I really feel that if hackers freed their minds and created their own ideas without confining themselves to this structure that, really, isn't that popular outside of hacking, the hacking library would be a lot more varied, unique, and interesting. Lately, however, I find myself barely playing hacks because I end up asking myself "what point is there in playing this if I can just play my copy of X or, hell, even Red". There really isn't much, considering a lot of hacks strive to be just like them. Well, actually, there are two reasons I can think of, but I'd rather they not be the case. The first reason is that it's easy. It's easy to write, easy to make. After all, you already have a perfectly good, well selling model right in front of you. The other reason is popularity, which I partially went over in the quote.

One of my favorite hacks, to this day, is Touhou Puppet Play: Gensokyo Scenario, because not only does it forsake the average formula, but it allows one to explore a whole new region with goals in mind. Story is at the forefront, and because of this, exploration is emphasized. A whole cast of new characters are introduced, the music is replaced, and the story is original (and in no way copypasta'd from Touhou Project itself or copying the Touhou formula). It still stands to be one of the most unique hacks there is, and if ever there were a model for what a Pokemon hack can be, I would definitely point to that. Or Meowth's fantastic Zelda hack and, of course, Rescue Rangers.
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Old 1 Week Ago (08:49 PM).
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Rulep, there's something I should mention about when storylines should be planned out in a video game. If the game is supposed to be story-centric, then the story should be the first thing thought out along with the setting. The first stage of planning a game is worldbuilding; you're making the world, characters, and story your video game conveys to the people who play it. Mechanics, graphics and other things usually come later once you have a general idea of what your game should be. Even if the story is an afterthought or barely exists at all it should at least be partially fleshed out when you're programming the game, because if you wait until the last second you'll end up with inconsistencies and it'll make the story feel tacked on.

As for some of your other points they don't make too much sense. Use a smaller vocabulary? What if one of your characters is a scientist or a professor, where using complex words would make sense? Adults play Pokemon hacks too, and if a person comes across a word they don't understand looking the word up is an option. As for cheesy plots it's possible to get away with that, but it's not something I would recommend unless you're an experienced writer, as it's way too easy to get wrong.

But as for making your hero relatable to the player... well that's not as easy as just having your character lose a match or two. It's a problem that a lot of characters, not just heroes, tend to suffer; they're known more for their deeds than for their personalities and who they're supposed to be. It's all too easy to make up this amazing character that sounds neat on paper but just isn't any good when implemented. The problem isn't that they win all the time or that they're too awesome; the problem stems from them having no real traits beyond that. Making a hero can be difficult, because that's the guy you're gonna get to know the most through playing the game, and you need to put a lot of thought into your hero and how he interacts with the world, the other characters, and the story at large. Does he have a personality? Does he have any flaws or weaknesses? Does he have any standout traits beyond just winning all the time and possibly leading others around? How does he interact with the villains and with the other characters? More importantly, does any of his characterization actually show up in the games? Just telling us that he has a temper and has a guilt problem isn't enough; this has to be shown to us in the game at some point.

Of course it's entirely possible to have a static hero and still have a successful game; escapist fantasies are a thing after all. But having at least some visible traits attached to your hero makes them more relatable to the viewer, because viewers have personality traits too.
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Old 1 Week Ago (02:59 AM). Edited 1 Week Ago by machomuu.
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Quote originally posted by HidoranBlaze:
Notice my emphasis on theory though. The reason I'm against "different" storylines is that usually, the hacks that try to be "different" just fail. They fail. I'm not going to name hacks, but I've seen plenty of examples of hacks that try to be dark and edgy, and just utterly fail to impress me, with their bad characterization, plotholes, lack of thought put into the story, etc. The plot becomes a victim of its own complexity.
Isn't this even more reason that non-standard hacks should be endorsed and supported? They generally fail because they don't see enough support- they don't get the help that others do. And the problem with that is that as long is that is the case, as long as nonstandard hacks aren't given any sort of legs to stand on, I really don't think that we can grow as a hacking community. Sure, our tools, assembly knowledge, and resources are far better than when I joined back in 08, but really I can't say things are all that different. The stories are mostly the same, a lot of games seek to boast the same features, and in terms of gameplay there's really nothing to keep you from playing most hacks as alternatives to others or even the main games, save for a few conveniences (unless we're talking different gen V or VI, in which case those conveniences aren't there.

And the story problem exists as well in regular hacks as well. This is pretty obvious why: a lot of people play Pokemon, and they want to be like GameFreak. This is especially the case with younger prospective hackers, and this is also where the bad fan fiction levels get particularly high (generally, if the name "Red" is in the description, you're in for a ride). If your story is badly written and you care about your story, people should try to help you, and if you have an idea that you think will fail because it's different, try anyway. But through inaction we get absolutely nowhere and as a longtime hacker and...observer, that pains me quite a bit.
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Old 1 Week Ago (02:30 PM). Edited 1 Week Ago by Rulep.
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Quote originally posted by mew_nani:
Rulep, there's something I should mention about when storylines should be planned out in a video game..
1. I should have mentioned that, since this is a RPG after all, sorry. Though game play is the first thing that comes to mind when making a game on Unity., so that's why I said that subconsciously. Also I will have to disagree somewhat. To be fair we are using a pre-built game here, so I may be in the wrong wording. HOWEVER a prototype for a custom basic game mechanics and game play prototype comes first. No whats, buts or ifs. ANY veteran game designer will tell you that. When you put an alpha testing your game for the public people will complain about a number of stuff. If you have a lot of gimmicks and stories at start you won't get as much feedback to the game play. If the game play is not fun at prototype or beta then the game won't be fun unless it's story based or something along those lines.

2. I strongly disagree. Using lawyer terms, medical terms is not a good idea. Not everyone goes to college learning about medical research, programming or science. You can use "big" words, but not "VERY BIG". Trying hard to use big words to add depth and making us believe a fictional character has as much rights as a real life person doesn't work out. This is the kind of stuff that would be praised by bad users from Tumblr and fan fiction sites.

3. Yes, yes and YES! What I wrote was a very basic 101 guide. Would you teach a kid how to use training wheels or standard wheels first?

4. Again 101 guide. Notice I said very "basic" template?

Thanks I will take somethings in consideration. I will speak less vaguely in an edit sometime this weekend.

Edit: I edited my main post. What are your thought on it now?
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Old 1 Week Ago (04:27 PM).
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If you're honestly annoyed by someone making a Pokémon game that has a similar story to the original, it may be time to find a new series to play.
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Old 1 Week Ago (04:28 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Hopeless Masquerade:
If you're honestly annoyed by someone making a Pokémon game that has a similar story to the original, it may be time to find a new series to play.
Unfortunately, you're pretty unlikely to find a hacking community as large and active as Pokemon's; certainly not as far as RPGs are concerned, there just isn't an alternative.

And there isn't really a reward for simply giving up and walking away. Speaking out is a form of action, after all, and considering there aren't really a lot of non-standard naysayers out there, I think this is a good, healthy push, especially if Le pug actually wants change.
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Old 1 Week Ago (05:26 PM).
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Quote originally posted by machomuu:
Unfortunately, you're pretty unlikely to find a hacking community as large and active as Pokemon's; certainly not as far as RPGs are concerned, there just isn't an alternative.

And there isn't really a reward for simply giving up and walking away. Speaking out is a form of action, after all, and considering there aren't really a lot of non-standard naysayers out there, I think this is a good, healthy push, especially if Le pug actually wants change.
You're reading too far into this. Fact of the matter is that Pokémon as an RPG series has never been very story driven until the most recent games, and even then it's nothing too major. The recycled storyline is to be expected when the main point of the games is the collection of the Pokémon.

If Le pug wants a change, that's nice. I never meant he should give up on his or anyone else's unique stories, and it's nice he's trying encourage others to be unique. I'm just saying he shouldn't expect too much out of a game that didn't have much to begin with, story-wise.
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Old 1 Week Ago (05:47 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Hopeless Masquerade:
You're reading too far into this. Fact of the matter is that Pokémon as an RPG series has never been very story driven until the most recent games, and even then it's nothing too major. The recycled storyline is to be expected when the main point of the games is the collection of the Pokémon.

If Le pug wants a change, that's nice. I never meant he should give up on his or anyone else's unique stories, and it's nice he's trying encourage others to be unique. I'm just saying he shouldn't expect too much out of a game that didn't have much to begin with, story-wise.
See, and that's kind of what gets me. I've never really understood why people look at Pokemon hacking, prior to them having engaged in it, and immediately think they should make something similar to what GameFreak does. After all, hacking in general is usually a means to apply ones own ideas to a medium now made editable, and outside of simply editing them (in the way that Slideshow Hacks do), you would think people would want to make something, well, new.

People seem to just take it for what it is, but in reality, The Pokemon hacking library is truly an oddity as far as hacking communities go, especially considering Pokemon, unlike something like Super Mario or Fire Emblem, is largely similar now to what it was in 3rd gen. Because it's so similar, logically, one would try to deviate and create something different. But after having created something of a culture of its own, Pokemon hacking basically sees these similar stories as normal- it wouldn't be a stretch to say that it's considered "the way it's supposed to be".
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Old 1 Week Ago (12:11 AM).
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Despite all that you've said, however, you've given no good reasons TO drop the "10 year old" (hint - in the games, the ages vary, Micheal was likely 10, Red was 12, Hilbert and Hilda were, and I quote "old enough to drive" and Wes seemed to be in 18 - the rest of the cast seemed to vary between 10 to 18).

Give us a good reason why other than "to be different".
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Old 1 Week Ago (01:11 AM).
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I totally agree with Rulep's point #9 there - the hack can turn out really boring if nothing interesting happens in a long time. As advice to others, I would personally recommend to plan surprises that the player wouldn't expect to run into.
When you travel from town A to B, in a "normal" pokemon game, you would expect to run into trainers, new wild pokemon, seeing "cool" mapped areas, and possibly run into your rival/friend for no good reason - just to have yet another pokemon battle.

So try to be more creative. Even if the main part of the game isn't story and how it's going to play out, it's not too hard to use your imagination to come up with interesting events that take place every now and then. These events make the player wonder, what's going to happen next!
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