Scrapbox phase-out

[Hiroshi Sotomura]

Originally Posted by Raichu_is_Awesome

The only reason I'm trying to keep the scrapbox is because of this post:

I was actually referring to the post above me, not the idea that the Scrapbox closure was preventable.

[Cello]

Originally Posted by Went

I remember two years ago, when there was no Scrapbox at all, there was much less spam around the rom-hacking boards and the amount of spam threads in the Hacks Showcase (there was no Progressing Hacks either) was also manageable by the mods.

And the only board where you can post threads without moderation approval is (was) the Scrapbox. Threads in Rom-Hacking or Emulation are moderated as well. Contrary to what you said, this will be a way to filter the spam. Filtering unapproved threads is easier than flitering open threads just floating around a board, because unapproved threads are listed on the ModCP so the mods can check them all at once.

I understand what you're saying, and I do respect the decisions made, so hopefully you don't think that was my way of bashing the team.
I just think the decision is a bit rash to close what appears to be to a lot of us users a necessary section to ROM hacking over spam.

Spam happens. There are ways of preventing it, but it makes things a lot slower since the ways to prevent it are likely require the moderation team to be online and constantly having to approve things, and I mean that just doesn't happen with the way things are around here.
I've heard from so many people who have requested for a thread to be approved and it not being posted until days later, and that was after those users have constantly had to pester the mods for them to take a look at their thread.
How does it take days, let alone a day, to approve a thread when you say thread approval is much easier for the mods? Especially when spam is usually taken care of effective immediately as long as someone is online to take care of it.

Also, I don't know how the population was around here two years ago but the users differ from who was here then, so a two year difference (with most of the users being used to having the scrapbox around) may work against those facts.

I have my doubts about this being any way to help anybody, but I know there's not much I can say to change your mind.
This is just going to have to be one of those wait and see situations.

[Hiroshi Sotomura]

Really? A lot of the opinions here seem to talk it down rather than push its significance. A lot of hacks started fine back when we only had "Hacks Showcase" and Progressing Hacks' barrier isn't very high at the moment either.

To be honest, I feel a lot of the Scrapbox threads may actually be overqualified (if not just filled with SPAM).

[Cello]

Yeah, there are a lot of people posting in the thread to close it but that still doesn't mean there aren't others who want it open, and I'm sure anybody who's just getting started on hacking would want it here too. You're doing more hurting than helping.
I seriously doubt the scrapbox being open is burning anyone's eyes out. The only people it's hurting are the people who have to watch over it and I've already made the reason why it's hurting them very clear.

The decision to close the scrapbox is a little bit of an overreaction. Over spam?
Is moderation just a fancy title or does it actually mean taking care of the spam so that all of us who post naturally in the section can enjoy it?
Posting your ideas for others to see is a very exciting thing to be doing, and that's why I think it's necessary to keep this open.

You think you'll be cutting down work by doing this but you'll be having to approve threads next, which already seems to be too much of an issue to be done in a day to three days when all it takes is reading a thread and making sure it meets posting standards (which takes more time than closing a spam thread, yeah?). At this rate we may as well lose progressing hacks too, but I probably shouldn't be giving any more ideas.

[558122_DG]

Threads may seem to be "overqualified" but the owners are holding back on the progressing hacks for a reason. Usually the best hacks are located in the Progressing hacks section, and if you find some hack with a few non-edits in the beggining then it wouldn't look as great now would it? Some people have alot of mapping and scripting done but they haven't even done any spriting, or tile insertion which would make thier hack look nicer thus they hold back on the prog hacks section... it's all about reputation, standard and opinion.

[Live Update King]

They all ready made up there minds on this section. The only solution to this is to have a Scrapbox Thread in the ROM Hacking section

[Banjora Marxvile]

Originally Posted by Live Update King

They all ready made up there minds on this section. The only solution to this is to have a Scrapbox Thread in the ROM Hacking section :)

That wouldn't really work well. Or at least, not as well as the forum. Reasons: SPAM, harder to reply and give hack criticism (HUGE quotes), easy to re-post ideas, harder to add features without re-posting ideas. Probably more ways it wouldn't work, but... Can't think of any more at the moment.

[Ray Maverick]

Originally Posted by Deviation

That wouldn't really work well. Or at least, not as well as the forum. Reasons: SPAM, harder to reply and give hack criticism (HUGE quotes), easy to re-post ideas, harder to add features without re-posting ideas. Probably more ways it wouldn't work, but... Can't think of any more at the moment.

Also, it'd be almost impossible to "bump" hack ideas. People would just say their opinions about the hack ideas posted on the last page. People would just have to repost their ideas.
Also, the "thread" solution wouldn't be too popular, and not many people would post or even check the thread.

I'm disappointed and happy at the same time about this. I fully understand your decision to delete this section was quite wise and rightful, seeing as the scrapbox is turned into a junkyard. But i do doubt your decision a little. Scrapbox was the only place for hack ideas, and now that it's gone, all of it's spam will be "transfered" to other sections.

[~Teh Panda~]

I think that game ideas should be discussed in a writing section as until it is a game it is a creative piece of literature waiting to be melded in to the hardware of a hack rom. As I said before people who really know they have a solid story which are really the hacks we should care about as they don't keep saying oh no this won't work, scrap it then pull out something else. Really if you are a true hacker you would MAKE it work. Logistics push a lot of people away from this as at the moment they cant pull it together and do what is needed so they keep stupefying their idea until the point its not creative at all and its scrapped for that. Plenty of people do this and just keep recycling out the same hack watered down and a new name. Also yes Hiroshi I understand mods can intervene at what makes the progressing hacks also as I stated the mods should just step up and realize this that our beloved progressing hacks should be kept relatively clean as it is now. Also is there not a storyline help thread which is now a stuck thread in the progressing hacks sections? Why not go there to look for improvement in your story? Well once again I emphasize hackers to think some things through before posting. Figure out if your hack will work with where you are at now and then post!

Bai :D

Ray: Looky here. The scrapbox isn't the only idea place :3

[Ray Maverick]

Originally Posted by ~Teh Panda~

Ray: Looky here. The scrapbox isn't the only idea place :3

I meant serious hack ideas. You don't expect any of these ideas to become a hack, do you?
So scrapbox maybe wasn't the only place for ideas, but maybe it was the best and most popular place for ideas.

[Ninja Caterpie]

Originally Posted by Ray Maverick

I meant serious hack ideas. You don't expect any of these ideas to become a hack, do you?
So scrapbox maybe wasn't the only place for ideas, but maybe it was the best and most popular place for ideas.

Most of us don't expect any of the ideas in the scrapbox to become hacks either.

[Sarcastic Prince]

Thanks! I really hoped that this day will come.
I really hate and despise Scrapbox!

The stupid noobs just don't read the rules and
this is going to end the life of noobs!

And also, one phrase for everybody:
THE SCRAPBOX IS POINTLESS IN THE
FIRST PLACE!!

This is a dream come true!

[Ray Maverick]

Originally Posted by Ninja Caterpie

Most of us don't expect any of the ideas in the scrapbox to become hacks either.

True, but there are a few exceptions, if you haven't noticed. I saw many hacks in scrapbox that moved to the progressing hacks [they weren't just some crappy ideas, in other words].

Originally Posted by Sarcastic Prince

The stupid noobs just don't read the rules and
this is going to end the life of noobs!

And also, one phrase for everybody:
THE SCRAPBOX IS POINTLESS IN THE
FIRST PLACE!!

This is a dream come true!

I also have a phrase for you:
IT'S POINTLESS TO CALL THE NEWBS STUPID AND _____.
.. seriously now, don't be so harsh. You don't help AT ALL. They don't deserve it as most of them post without thinking. I bet you do think before you post [you're not a newb], so being harsh like that is bad; that's my point of view.

[558122_DG]

yea, the scrapbox has no real reason to be deleted...
well, except maybe the constant breaking of rules, but thats cause no one really cares much... Whenever you see a bump do you ever report it? Or do you just wait till the mods find out then be upset? Also even these "experienced hackers", have you guys ever read the actual rules? like took the time to read the entire page?

[altariaking]

Originally Posted by Sarcastic Prince

The stupid noobs just don't read the rules and
this is going to end the life of noobs!

no need to call people stupid noobs! Calm down man.

ok, mabye the scrapbox is full of spam, BUT, why not delete the spam and make rules?

[Live Update King]

Stricter rules is the way to go instead of closure

[Conan Edogawa]

I'm not trying to flame or anything but this is the worst idea I have ever heard. Getting rid of the scrap box will not solve any problems. In fact it will only make things worse. The only logical solution would be to make a set of rules and enforce them. I know that The Doctor and Christos are both very busy when they're on here due to the activity level here. So why not make someone that can handle some of the problems a moderator for the scrap box? I can think of a few people on here that could do that but I won't name anyone. That way the scrap box can stay and actually be useful.

[interdpth]

Wow, this thread went to the deep end real fast. :(

Proof of what I said is in this thread.

[Otter]

I'm leaning more towards the scrapbox-supporters, only since I do think that it is useful for some dedicated beginners who could really produce a high-quality hack if they are just given the right outlet for their ideas. There's another thread or two for "storyline ideas" and small-scale stuff like that, but some people really do have well-developed ideas that just need to be supported by the right people, and could easily just go unnoticed in a thread like that. I myself don't have the time to start working on a hack myself, but I have pages upon pages of binder paper filled with scribbles for the plot of the hack I'd eventually like to make with the help of others. A massive, complete outline of a hack like that really has no place to go but the scrapbox, and without such an outlet, it would probably become a lot more difficult to get the right kind of attention and help.

Also, really, some of you, putting the blame on beginners or "noobs" isn't addressing the problem. There's plenty of beginners with some potentially great ideas, and likewise there's some active members here who frankly can't come up with ideas much better than those flooding most of the scrapbox. I myself haven't even created that many maps in my lifetime, but I think calling me a noob would be a little misguided.

But anyways, like some others have said, I don't think the hacking forums would be able to accommodate properly without having a scrapbox-like outlet, so it shouldn't be long before this is properly resolved. Whether it's by stricter rules or increased modding, I think new artists who want to put their idea forth should be given the opportunity to do so without being dragged down by the spam of the masses. I've gotten used to these forums as being a sort of place of "opportunity", where youngsters and beginners, no matter how unskilled or naive, could interact with experienced hackers and obtain the guidance needed to become great hackers themselves, with the proper dedication. This site really shouldn't become the "Smogon" of hacking (I love firebot and CAP and all, but you get the point).

[Live Update King]

I did make some maps but im still to do the other parts

[Manipulation]

The Scrapbox is a sub-section, having a sub-section moderator would be pretty ludicrous. ^^ But, the Scrapbox will be deleted because of an agreement between higher staff and the moderation team. Also, you really think stricter rules will stop being spamming? If they want to spam, they'll spam. They don't give a flying fladoodle how strict the rules are. Most people don't read them anyway. Also, with this note a complete overhaul of the Progressing Hacks sub-section rules and conditions will come about. Me and Christos are actually in agreement that we're going to be changing up the current rules of pretty much every section. Mainly because of experience, adding new rules, and new custom infractions etc. The only two sections that are unlikely to have a rule change are both the Hacks Showcase and R&D sub-sections. For differentiating reasons. The showcase, we are perfectly content with the rules. And R&D's rules are pretty new and the section looks extremely promising at the moment. In terms of the Progressing Hacks rules changing, we're mostly going to add a quality clause, much like in the Hacks Showcase rules. Where me and Christos have a moderator discretion ruling on whether the hack is too ridiculous for the section. Such as someone making one map full of tile errors and taking four screenshots. We will NOT be allowing hacks like such a place in the forum. So no need to fret there.

[558122_DG]

Originally Posted by The Doctor

The Scrapbox is a sub-section, having a sub-section moderator would be pretty ludicrous. But, the Scrapbox will be deleted because of an agreement between higher staff and the moderation team. Also, you really think stricter rules will stop being spamming? If they want to spam, they'll spam. They don't give a flying fladoodle how strict the rules are. Most people don't read them anyway. Also, with this note a complete overhaul of the Progressing Hacks sub-section rules and conditions will come about. Me and Christos are actually in agreement that we're going to be changing up the current rules of pretty much every section. Mainly because of experience, adding new rules, and new custom infractions etc. The only two sections that are unlikely to have a rule change are both the Hacks Showcase and R&D sub-sections. For differentiating reasons. The showcase, we are perfectly content with the rules. And R&D's rules are pretty new and the section looks extremely promising at the moment. In terms of the Progressing Hacks rules changing, we're mostly going to add a quality clause, much like in the Hacks Showcase rules. Where me and Christos have a moderator discretion ruling on whether the hack is too ridiculous for the section. Such as someone making one map full of tile errors and taking four screenshots. We will NOT be allowing hacks like such a place in the forum. So no need to fret there.

the players view is 7x7 T_T so a simple script that makes a guy say I'll show you the way^ next to some random trees counts as one screenshot no? as long as you can't recongnise the place where he is....

Originally Posted by interdpth

Wow, this thread went to the deep end real fast.

Proof of what I said is in this thread.

yea that was really curseful of you you jinxed it !!!!

[Conan Edogawa]

The only ludicrous part of this is that you actually want to do this. My ideas as well as others are completely legitimate yet you ignore them. It seems that you have a hatred for something that could be really useful. Instead of rug reasonable you just shut down and ignore all the other ideas. To be honest it looks like the staff is arrogant. He scrapbox is a great place because people that are new to hacking can gain experience and get advice. True almost all hacks in there go nowhere but that's part of the learning process. Kids aren't deprived of their learning opportunity in school if they make a mistake or do somethign wrong so why are you doing that here? If you don't feel like helping them then leave it to the people that want to help. So many of you complain about the current hacking worlds condition but then reject any chance to fix it. Anyone behind he closure is a hypocrit because they are worsening he situation that they want improved.

[The Ominous Plains]

Alas, the dreamers refuge gone forever.
Well It should prompt people to acctually work on hacks.
I'm guilty of posting ideas and not updating before anyone calles me hippocrytical.

[rockeymon]

I am glad to see this go it means I have to put some work into my hacks befor sending them out lol, there will be consequences though because then people who don't sit down and read the Proggressing hacks rules will spam PH with hacks.