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View Poll Results: Should 'creationism' / 'intelligent design' be taught alongside evolution?
Yes [I am religious] 9 23.68%
No [I am religious] 11 28.95%
Yes [I am atheist/agnostic] 0 0%
No [I am atheist/agnostic] 17 44.74%
Undecided [I never know what's going on] 1 2.63%
Voters: 38. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1    
Old March 15th, 2010 (02:33 PM).
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http://fora.tv/2009/10/07/Richard_Dawkins_The_Greatest_Show_on_Earth#Dawkins_Compares_Creationists_to_Holocaust_Deniers

I just watched that fascinating speech by Richard Dawkins about the problems biology teachers face today by being asked to teach creationism or having the theory of evolution removed from their text books.

Thoughts?

EDIT: And just a bit more on the video, I thought it was a brilliant comparison to question whether or not Holocaust deniers should be given a spot in our text books as well; a comparable situation in his eyes and mine.
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  #2    
Old March 15th, 2010 (02:46 PM).
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As a Christian myself, I don't think it's necessary to teach our doctrines in schools, particularly public ones. Religious ideal's should be taught by the churches (or other institution of religion) or from one's own reading of religious texts. Forcing them on someone else won't change their minds, especially on a topic like evolution.
I think a "this lesson isn't intended to support atheism, and anyone is entitled to their own beliefs" prior to a lesson should suffice.
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  #3    
Old March 15th, 2010 (02:51 PM).
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No, creationism should absolutely not be taught in schools. Why teach lies to children?

Religion is one of the things that really annoys me about America. Everyone takes it so seriously. Back in England, if someone suggested that creationism be taught in schools to the House of Commons, they'd get laughed out of the building. That's how it should be.

There is no doubt in my mind that God does not exist.
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  #4    
Old March 15th, 2010 (02:57 PM).
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That's like mandating that fairytales must be taught in school :O
  #5    
Old March 15th, 2010 (03:03 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Jolene:
Why teach lies to children?
Quote originally posted by Bianca Paragon:
That's like mandating that fairytales must be taught in school :O
I have to say that the blunt way in which you phrase your statement is very insulting to most Monotheistic and Polytheistic religions.

Anyway, in Malaysia, Creationism(Islamic Creationism) is taught in schools and is a mandatory subject because it is integrated into the Islamic Studies subject for Muslim students. Science text-books are written in such a way that at the end of some chapters, students are told to be grateful for the wonderful Universe in which God has provided for us.

Also, threads of this caliber on PC tend to degenerate into flame wars sooner or later...
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  #6    
Old March 15th, 2010 (03:03 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Bianca Paragon:
That's like mandating that fairytales must be taught in school :O
Fairytales should be mandatory. They are good for instilling an interest in reading into children, and they teach morals. I would say that fairytales are a more important part of a child's curriculum than religion.
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  #7    
Old March 15th, 2010 (03:03 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Jolene:
No, creationism should absolutely not be taught in schools. Why teach lies to children?

Religion is one of the things that really annoys me about America. Everyone takes it so seriously. Back in England, if someone suggested that creationism be taught in schools to the House of Commons, they'd get laughed out of the building. That's how it should be.

There is no doubt in my mind that God does not exist.
Well if you watched that video Dawkins speaks directly about the problem in the UK and Europe right now, mostly because of the Muslim population. Personally, I'm not sure if fundie Christians or zealot Muslims are the bigger problem facing our respective regions.

EDIT: Mizan, my threads never create flame wars. Ever.
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  #8    
Old March 15th, 2010 (03:10 PM).
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Yeah, and let's teach med students that diseases are caused by demons inhabiting our bodies.
SURELY PRAYER MUST BE THE ANSWER INSTEAD OF SCIENCE.
  #9    
Old March 15th, 2010 (03:14 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Luck:
Yeah, and let's teach med students that diseases are caused by demons inhabiting our bodies.
SURELY PRAYER MUST BE THE ANSWER INSTEAD OF SCIENCE.
Exorcisms have worked in the Catholic church for ages, respect the process man.
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Old March 15th, 2010 (03:15 PM).
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Well, Im religious and NEVER will be an atheist, I DO NOT think that creationism should be taught it school.

In fact, my grandpa was a preacher for over 50 years, in a baptist church, I REALLY DISLIKE Atheists.
  #11    
Old March 15th, 2010 (03:18 PM).
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Quote originally posted by NikoBelic999:
Well, Im religious and NEVER will be an atheist, I DO NOT think that creationism should be taught it school.

In fact, my grandpa was a preacher for over 50 years, in a baptist church, I REALLY DISLIKE Atheists.
Not discounting the fact God loves everyone and preaches tolerance. A message that belongs in our school without a deity attached. TOLERANCE PEOPLE, TOLERANCE.

Unless you don't believe in what I do. Then you get nada from me.
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Old March 15th, 2010 (03:23 PM).
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Quote originally posted by pokejungle:

Exorcisms have worked in the Catholic church for ages, respect the process man.
Come on now, ease up on the trolling. I actually treated you seriously for a second.
  #13    
Old March 15th, 2010 (03:28 PM).
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Quote originally posted by pokejungle:

Well if you watched that video Dawkins speaks directly about the problem in the UK and Europe right now, mostly because of the Muslim population. Personally, I'm not sure if fundie Christians or zealot Muslims are the bigger problem facing our respective regions.

EDIT: Mizan, my threads never create flame wars. Ever.
Will watch tomorrow, no time tonight. :P

We'll see. XD I'm hoping it won't turn into a flame war though. I do enjoy a civilized debate.

Quote originally posted by Luck:
Yeah, and let's teach med students that diseases are caused by demons inhabiting our bodies.
SURELY PRAYER MUST BE THE ANSWER INSTEAD OF SCIENCE.
The Muslim/Persian/Arabic cultures actually contributed a lot to proper medical science and pharmaceutical methods.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_medicine#Arabic_and_Persian_medicine

A little prayer before a major surgery however, never hurt anyone...
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  #14    
Old March 15th, 2010 (03:33 PM).
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I'm not against schools teaching that creationism as an idea exists and that some people believe in it, provided it's all done in an elective class and that it also teaches about the creation stories all all the world's religions as well as the generally accepted scientific explanation for the beginning of the universe.

It should, however, never grace the pages of a science textbook.
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Old March 15th, 2010 (03:35 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Mizan de la Plume Kuro:
A little prayer alcohol before a major surgery however, never hurt anyone...
Fixed for improved truthiness.

Sadly I think that religion in schools is out of gas. What is terrible though is Texas's Board of Education recently passed a motion to get rid of Thomas Jefferson from our textbooks because of his claim that state and religion should be separated.
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  #16    
Old March 15th, 2010 (03:35 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Mizan de la Plume Kuro:
The Muslim/Persian/Arabic cultures actually contributed a lot to proper medical science and pharmaceutical methods.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_medicine#Arabic_and_Persian_medicine

A little prayer before a major surgery however, never hurt anyone...
I mean using only prayer. Any sane person would choose a physician/surgeon/etc. to cure their problems instead of rolling the dice of life.
Anyways, I don't see any evidence of creation attributable only to a certain religion, which is why I don't think it should be taught in schools.
"OMG THIS PLANET IS PERFECT FOR LIFE" can be used by every religion that talks about creation.
  #17    
Old March 15th, 2010 (03:39 PM).
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Quote originally posted by pokejungle:

Sadly I think that religion in schools is out of gas.
I think that teaching children about religions is important so that they will be tolerant. It's fine to teach children about creationism, so long as the teacher doesn't suggest that it is fact.
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  #18    
Old March 15th, 2010 (03:44 PM).
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Creationism can absolutely be taught in schools...

...so long as those schools teach the creation stories of every major religion as well as the scientific view (evolution) and give children all the necessary facts so that they may form their own opinion on the matter.

Seriously, I'd have no problem with schools telling children that God created everyone in 7 days or whatever (either that or the Adam & Eve story--the bible can't even choose which origin story it likes :s). But that's only okay if the curriculum includes other religions (because Christianity is NOT the only belief on this earth) and doctrines. To this end, I also agree that it should be mandatory for everyone to take a "World Religions" course. Everyone needs to know the basics about other religions and should know what their beliefs are, even if only for the sake of the politically correct world we've been slowly creating. So whether or not evolution is preached as the "right" origin story, people will know what the creation stories of other religions are and how they compare.

Too bad that'll never happen.

(Also, question because I honestly don't know: is there even a DEBATE about whether or not to teach evolution in schools outside of the US? :s I can't recall anything of the sort in Canada but I don't know how it is in other countries.)
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Old March 15th, 2010 (03:45 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Jolene:
I think that teaching children about religions is important so that they will be tolerant. It's fine to teach children about creationism, so long as the teacher doesn't suggest that it is fact.
Yeah, that was what I was inferring. Religion is one of my favorite areas of study, especially ancient polytheistic ones (Greek, Roman, Egyptian) that essentially paved the way for more modern religions, such as Christianity and Islam.
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Old March 15th, 2010 (03:58 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Lightning:
Creationism can absolutely be taught in schools...

...so long as those schools teach the creation stories of every major religion as well as the scientific view (evolution) and give children all the necessary facts so that they may form their own opinion on the matter.
I disagree. That would confuse children. Also, teachers are bias.

Creationism should be taught in the context that "Some Christians believe that..." Evolution, on the other hand, should be taught as fact - because it is undeniable fact.


Quote originally posted by Lightning:
(Also, question because I honestly don't know: is there even a DEBATE about whether or not to teach evolution in schools outside of the US? :s I can't recall anything of the sort in Canada but I don't know how it is in other countries.)
America is the only developed country that takes religion seriously. I've always thought it was weird that the president always talks about God in his speeches. In England, that would just seem ridiculous.
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  #21    
Old March 15th, 2010 (04:19 PM).
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With parental consent.

Since everyone is not the same religion, and creationism varies on the religion, it should require parental class. And should only be an elective in high school.

I am agnostic by the way.
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  #22    
Old March 15th, 2010 (04:21 PM).
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No! Creationism isn't an acceptable and evolucionism is just a fact. Creationism can be debated under the condition of mere folklore. To be dumb is not an option, furthermore, god is fickle and you can still believe it even if you don't try to take the bible literally
  #23    
Old March 15th, 2010 (04:47 PM). Edited March 15th, 2010 by King Breloom.
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Quote originally posted by Jolene:
I think that teaching children about religions is important so that they will be tolerant. It's fine to teach children about creationism, so long as the teacher doesn't suggest that it is fact.
I agree and disagree
I myself am a christian through and through but the bible says that people should want to come to him and christians should speak gods word.

i think that the teach should suggest to them to believe what they believe is right.

Because if u r forcing ur atheistic beleifs on another how r u better then the chrsitians who do the same
and dont say because im not spreading lies almost 80 something percent of the world believes in some sort of god and so you could argue that athiests are preaching lies

Also when aithiests say that their is no evidence to disprove god. I ask to put as much time as you would into researching proof to prove god as youw ould to disprove god. I would like to know your answer.
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  #24    
Old March 15th, 2010 (04:48 PM).
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Give them both options, and let them decide for themselves. There are things evolution can't explain, like the flagellar motor in certain bacteria. It is so complex, that it could not have developed all at once. But it couldn't have developed slowly either, because the individual parts had no benefit to the species.

Honestly, I don't get why it's so strange or "stupid" to believe in both.
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Old March 15th, 2010 (04:50 PM).
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Anything religious based should not be taught in school. Leave the religion to the religious schools, that's what they're there for.
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