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  #1    
Old April 12th, 2010 (09:12 PM).
Anxiety.'s Avatar
Anxiety.
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First off, this is a dead serious topic and I need serious help, so if you don't think you can do that don't bother replying - thanks in advance.

This isn't about a love relationship, either. Neither of them are.

Friend one.
Spoiler:

I've know my friend for 13 years, she's the only person I honest confide in and I really trust her with everything. Physically, she is so stunning it hurts. Admittedly, I have had a crush on her for a rediculous amount of time. She knows this, and she messes me about because she knows that if anything happens, she'll be the one I go to, and I'll be the one she goes to. I wouldn't go out with her, I don't think, because I respect her so much.

Now here is the problem. All over her arms, her upper thighs and knuckles are scars. Not cuts, but burns. She's burnt her upper thighs with hot metal rods, her arms with cigarettes, lighters and plain fire, and her knuckles are cut up because she cuts them, because they bleed alot and she likes to use the blood for artistic photos (Which look amazing, but thats not the point (She also punches walls in anger, but I do that too)) She takes drugs, a good amount to, smokes and gets drunk very often. She can be so happy, and then she'll snap and go crazy on people. She sets things on fire just for the fun of it (Admittedly, I do this aswell) and that didn't bother me until she told me she tried to set a girl on fire because she insulted her. She has an anger managment class at school, two phsycologists, and a therapist and she isn't really getting better.

I constantly ignore the way she abuses me because I'm aware of how mentally unstable she is. She sometimes just yells at me and tells me how terrible I am and that she hates me, and then she'll come out with the sweetest things ever, about a month ago she turned around after an argument about her trying to get high of paracetamol and said
"You're amazing, I love you and I respect you so much. Honestly, you're perfect. You have no faults because you stay with me and I know how much I abuse you, and I know that you don't care and you stick around anyway" which is huge coming from her.

I was doing well, until we had an argument because she didn't speak to me for no reason for about two months. She admitted to me that she had tried to commit suicide, via drowining herself in her bathroom, she still hasn't told me why she stopped half way through. Ever since then I've been constantly worrying about her, I love her too much to let her go, and I'm the only person who knows about her suicide attempt, and if she does it again and actually dies, I wont know what to do, and I'll blame myself, and end up with serious depression or something.

What can I do? What do I say to her and how do I help her without letting her know that I'm doing it?


Friend two.
Spoiler:

I've known her for two/three years, and she's changed my life a dramatic amount. She is one of those people I go to when I'm crying, and she always understands what I mean. This is also my sisters ex-girlfriend (They're still very close friends). Phsyically she is amazing, beautiful and I mean it.

Lets start off with her father. Emotionally abusive to her. He had a stroke a few years ago, and one night, for no reason he flipped and tried to break her arm, and when she pulled away, he tried to break her neck. She sat up in her room with the door and window locked, crying and talking to my sister for almost six hours (Just my guess)
And her brother. He used to be very close with her, until some family argument when she was twelve, he called her a ***** and left. He became very addicted to drugs and alcohol and it ruined her family life completely, as in, ripped it to shreds.
Her sister, a prostitute, or used to be, I'm not sure. Not all that nice to her.

And now her. She has gender dysphoria, which means her gender is different from her sex. Gender = Mentally, Sex = Phsyically. (Maybe its the opposite way around, but I think thats right) Mentally, she is male, and physically, she is female. As you can imagine, this causes so much confusion. Not many people believe her, including her mother who refuses to take her to threapy. This is giving her borderline depression. Much like me, she has anxiety and paranoia issues. She's very inclosed, she doesn't like to talk about her problems, so when she turned around and said 'I want to go to threapy' it was a big step. Her mother, as I said, refused, and now she isn't so sure again. She has dropped out of college and doesn't know what to do with her life. She's starting drinking more. She also hates the way she looks (Which I don't understand at all) I can see her breaking down, every time I look at her I think about how much she means to me, and I'm just watching her ruin herself.

How can I help her? She wont go to therapy now, is there something I can say? Anything?


So there you have it, my two most wrecked up friends. I can't handle it anymore, I can't watch them breaking themselves down. Please, tell me what to do, someone.
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Old April 12th, 2010 (09:16 PM).
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PuyoPuyo Raffine
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hm friend two sounds very similar to a friend of mine that I know, personally if I were you, the most you can do for your friends, is simply be there for them, and give them occasional talks. You should also know that you should never neglect or reject them in any manner, if they ever need any help at all you should always ensure you can provide help and/or support =) hope that helped
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Old April 12th, 2010 (09:35 PM).
TheUltimateSacrifice
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Warning: There is no sarcasm or humour in the following; I am taking the Internet seriously for once!

1st example - She seems so torn, between so many avenues of life... I think, that you need to enforce yourself on her a bit more. She probably goes and hangs around people that she would call "friends". Deep down, though, I think that she realises that you are a true friend, and that your association has move value to her. You need to get her to know that - and you need to tell her about things from your perspective. She may not know how sad her derailment makes you. You really need to have a last-ditch effort to reconcile with her... You have everything to gain by telling her your side of the story, and how much she means to you, in hope that it will make her see the "light".

2nd example - You need to help her to come to terms with who she is, and help her to understand that some people will react negatively to her, and others positive. She just needs to surround her with those people who truly accept and understand her (like yourself). Reassure her, that she needs to battle through the hard times, and have hope of that something off in the distance... Again, tell her how much she means to you, and really get her to see things from your perspective. See if you can get her focussing on a career, to hopefully build a future, which she can channel her efforts on.

I hope this helps. I would be more than happy to talk it over some other time with you...
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Old April 12th, 2010 (09:37 PM).
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yeah I'd be interested to discuss this deeper in conversation with you
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  #5    
Old April 12th, 2010 (10:36 PM).
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txteclipse
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For your first friend, the fact that she's already tried to commit suicide worries me. It sounds like she desperately needs help, and that her psychologists and therapist aren't working. I think what you really need to do is have a serious talk with her. Go somewhere private. Invite her over or something. Tell her what you're telling us: be as honest as possible. You know that she's hurting herself, and you want to help her. Try to get some accountability set up: call her every so often and ask her how her day is going. Better yet, have her call you, and if she doesn't then you'll know something is wrong. If you can, make an agreement with her to start taking less drugs and alcohol, and to tell you how she does with that. I have a suspicion that those are a big part of the problem. Ask her what she thinks of her therapist and her psychologists, if she feels like they're even helping her. If not, talk to her about maybe switching to someone new.

If you know that there's bad influences in her life, like if she does drugs at a specific time of day or something, getting her away from them even momentarily can help a lot. Go see a movie, or go to a mall, or the park. You said she's an artist: work on an art project together. Do something to offer her an avenue of escape, and don't just let her say "no" right off the bat. Push her a little bit, try to overcome that initial reflex.

This next part may be hard to hear, but if she really is hurting you then you need to "take some time off from her," so to speak. It's not worth destroying yourself to fix her. You need to know your limits, and not try to do more than you can.

Ultimately, love on her a lot, and please, please understand that no matter what happens, you're a good friend. What you've already done so far by sticking with her for so long is completely amazing to me. I wish I could say the same things you've said about myself.

Lastly, if you ever need to talk, drop me a PM any time. I may not always know what to say or do, but I will always listen.
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Old April 12th, 2010 (11:08 PM).
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Mika
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First and formost, Self Injury, which is not exclusionary to cutting as Burning is another form of self injury, does NOT equal a Suicide Attempt.

Let me reiterate: SELF INJURY IS NOT A SUICIDE ATTEMPT

Do not associate the two with eachother or you'll frustrate her.

Click Here as well as Here for basic information on what self injury actually is and what it is not.

If she's actually suicidal, she should seek help irl from someone who isn't you because you are not a degree-carrying person who can fix it.

Something to note [Taken from the BUS Website linked above]

Quote:
Self-injurious behavior is more about the person who does it than about the people around him/her. The person you're concerned about is not cutting, burning, hitting, or whatever just to make you feel bad or guilty. Even if it feels like a manipulation, it probably isn't intended as one. People generally do not SI to be dramatic, to annoy others, or to make a point.
It's done as a method of release. She has nothing else to channel the release into and it seems as tho she's unable to stop. She'll probably need help to stop as it's almost impossible to stop on your own without help from someone be it a friend or a counselor or a therapist and since she has the later two and they're not helping it could be a slew of things

SI is not something you stop overnight nor is it something someone else can stop for you. The person injuring has to decide to stop and has to develop ways to stop. The best thing for you to do is be supportive without encouraging the SI behavior and, most importantly, by taking care of yourself. If she abuses you, take a break form her for a bit, prove to her it's not an acceptable behavior around you.

Mental illness =/= a free get out of jail free card for treating someone like dirt.

Last and not least, know the following:

It is not your fault

and I mean that. Thus why it's in a very large font.

You do not burn her, she burns herself. If she commits suicide, it will not be your fault because she is the one making the decision. She can blame whoever she likes but the cold hard truth is that you were there with a hand out and she chose not to take it. You are not responsible for her actions or her wellbeing. You are only responsible for you and your well being.

I hope this helps as it's after 2am and I know this is scatterbrained. If you have any questions, feel free to pm me or vm me and I'll get back to as quickly as I can.
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Old April 13th, 2010 (04:37 AM).
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Friend 1 -

I disagree with what Mika said about you not being able to help your first friend. If therapy isn't helping her, then you're going to have to be a bigger man here. It's clear to me that you mean a lot to her, and she means a lot to you and you need to enforce that on her. You don't want to lose her, and you need to make this painfully obvious to her so that she knows she has someone there for her whenever she needs it. Friends can do a crapload more than a therapist can, and I know this becuase my friend ended up going to therapy to no avail, but eventually pulled through his stream of depression because of his friends and family. Does she have other friends or family members that she can confide in as well? Because during depressive phases, you need to surround yourself with people you love.

I don't know if that helped much or not, but that's all I can think off.

Friend 2 -

First off, I'll start with a question. Does she have grandparents or an uncle or someone she can live with? Living in a house with abusive parents is no fun. In relation to her mother, is there a reason she is refusing to allow her daughter to have therapy? Money costs? Doesn't believe she needs it? What's the case? Like above, you need to be there for her. Take her places she enjoys or something. Anything to make her forget about all the crap and think about good things. Her dropping out of college isn't that big of a deal, because some people don't even go to college. She'll find what she wants to do. Something she enjoys, perhaps.

Again, dunno if it helped but I tried.
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Old April 13th, 2010 (08:29 AM).
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Professor Doakes
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Quote originally posted by Mika:
It is not your fault.
This right here. The thing about this, mostly with your first friend, is that people need to be willing to change for themselves. Your words alone won't make her stop her, and you letting her use you as a punching bag then running back when she apologizes only reinforces that behavior.

You need to tell whoever you think can help about her suicide attempt. You need to tell her straight that it's up to her to stop that behavior. You can try and point her in the right direction, get a new shrink, try something else, and if she doesn't get it then take a break. If she makes an honest effort, you reward her.

As for your second friend, that's one that you can be there for. Same rules as above, but I'd consider looking into options regard any free therapy or shelters. Look online or give one of the local therapists office a call and ask about it.
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Old April 13th, 2010 (09:22 AM).
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AuroraHearts
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i guess i can help with friend two since i can relate to this with some one i know too

if i were you, i say you need to be her, i think the term is "ray of sunlight"?
ok to be more clear, you say that she has gender dysphoria? and you say she's confused... well to me i dont see why there is anything to be confused about
girls can like boy stuff and vice versa, and you can be the one who believes her
help her out a bit, do some things shes comfortable with and show her that theres nothing wrong about what she thinks
its just like being or tomboy or something,

and you say she hates the way she looks? just tell her that looks arent everything
be honest with her and confront her about how you think she's an amazing friend

honesty can make a huge difference
just basically make her see things in a new light and always let her know that your by her side

if shes gonna rely on someone, its you
you cant break down in front of her too
you've just gta be the strong one and shes bound to feel reassured
and do not give up easily

hope i helped in any way
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Old April 13th, 2010 (10:53 AM).
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Zeph.
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I'd just like to say that, while it's important you're concerned, don't feel like you carry the whole responsability for your friends lives - there are some things we just can't control.

Anyway, I'm afraid I wouldn't know what to do in any professional sense. Maybe just reitterate how much your friends mean to you - give them a sense of self respect and purpose.

Best of luck - I hope things work out
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Old April 13th, 2010 (11:05 AM).
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Åzurε
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Okay, I agree with pretty much all the above, and I support you taking a more powerful role in their lives. Still, it would be prudent to involve someone else, someone that your friends trust. Preferably an adult, or somebody who's already dealt with something like what they're going through now. Especially with friend two, because you said she's feeling insecure, and especially with friend one, because nobody else knows about her suicide, and she's not the only person involved, not the only person who this affects.

I hope any small bit of this helps, I've seen the effects of drama like this in other people's lives. I don't know much about your situation, so I don't know if you can do anything I've suggested, but try. I don't know if you'll appreciate it, or if you put any stock in it at all, but you have someone praying for you and your friends.
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Old April 13th, 2010 (06:21 PM).
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Regarding the first friend you mentioned, if someone tells you they're suicidal or have actually attempted suicide you NEED to tell someone. Now. Keeping it a secret is not going to help her. You can't help her in any way without her knowing. If she gets angry because you're getting involved or 'meddling' it means she's not ready to help herself and she has to want to help herself before she'll get better. I can't really say how you should go about helping her specifically beyond getting other people involved, people who care about her.

I think I understand your friend with gender dysphoria. I'm in the same place, only in reverse: male on the outside, female on the inside. Your friend is transgendered. Now, if there's something guaranteed to make someone who's transgendered unhappy it's being referred to by their physical sex rather than the identity they actually feel. This means don't call your friend 'she'. Call him 'he'. That's what he feels and it would probably mean much more than you think to have someone - you - accept that regardless of however much it doesn't make sense to you. If he could get in touch with a support group (preferably one for transgendered people, but others will do in a pinch since he sounds like he could do with some support for other things in his life) that would probably also help a great deal, but like your other friend there's a certain amount of desire to get help that needs to be there.
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Old April 16th, 2010 (11:17 AM).
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Anxiety.
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Thanks for your help and suggestions. But I'm worried about friend one, more than I was before.

I was with her today, we went to a resturant because I almost passed out (I hadn't eaten, slept or drank anything for around 24 hours) so she brought me some food. She took her jacket off, and one of her arms is compleatly torn up. Scratches all over it. She said she fell into a thorn bush when she was drunk, at first I belived her, but the more I looked a them the less convincing her story became.

They look like very shallow cuts from a razor, I mean, exactly like them. Two or three lines very close together, and in random directions all down her arm and a little over her hand.
And she didn't want to tell me how she got it at first... and she isn't the type to be embarassed, or quiet, about drunkenly falling into a thorn bush.

I don't know if I'm just being paranoid or not... but if I am right, and she did them to herself... I don't know what to do, guys. Do I tell her what I think? Or shall I just wait and see how things go?
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Old April 16th, 2010 (01:49 PM).
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Friend 1: Leave it be. As painful as it might be to watch this behavior, you can't do anything about it...leave it to the professionals.

Friend 2: Be supportive. Be there to listen, maybe it'll help a bit.

I hate being blunt, but this is all you can really do in these situations.
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Old April 16th, 2010 (02:22 PM). Edited April 16th, 2010 by Yamikarasu.
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I have some experience with friends like these. One of my best friends has attempted suicide (she tried to overdose on pills) twice, and she also went through a very strict drug rehab program where she was isolated from society for about a year. From the way she describes it, it definitely seems like a scary place, although I'm not sure if she thought it was that scary herself. I was not great friends with her while she was doing drugs, but from the stories she's told me about that time in her life I think it is similar to what your first friend is going through.

The difference between her now and how she was a year ago when she last attempted suicide is amazing. As far as I know, she no longer does drugs, and she has a really great boyfriend so that helps.

What I can tell you from my experience is that friends, above all, are the most important things. You can go through intense rehabilitation, and if your friends are still into drugs or are still pressuring you to do things that are harmful, you'll just fall back down and it will be for nothing. So just be a friend. Be the best friend you can possibly be. Talk to her, understand what she's going through, and don't condemn her for doing something you don't approve of. I think this advice applies to both friends.

Also know that doing drugs will only make a situation like this worse. Rehab is a good idea if your friends are addicted.
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Old April 16th, 2010 (07:15 PM).
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THIS WILL BE HARSH AND I WILL NOT BE HOLDING BACK MY OPINIONS.




First of all.. this jumped out at me..

Quote:
"You're amazing, I love you and I respect you so much. Honestly, you're perfect. You have no faults because you stay with me and I know how much I abuse you, and I know that you don't care and you stick around anyway" which is huge coming from her.
The thing is.. you DO care. You should let her know that it DOES hurt you.

If she's in school, perhaps telling her to talk to the therapist there would help. Most schools have actual THERAPISTS and not just some guidance councilor that wouldn't know how to deal with people like that. Check if there's one. If she's aware that she does this, then seeking one would genuinely help her. If she says that it wont work, ask her just to try it. She can stop going any time she wants to, but talking about might help her.
Thing is.. therapists are different than psychologists. Therapists aren't there to shove pills down your throat.

As for your second friend, she's not really in a predicament except for her environment. I just don't see how you can go to someone for help if they are so unstable themselves. Are they really helping you?
She's pretty much an idiot for dropping out of college. Even if her family life is messed up, she should be strong enough to fight for herself. If she hates how everything in her family is messed up, then she should try to set a PROPER example and be the one who stands tall. If she does that then people WILL RESPECT HER NO MATTER WHAT GENDER OR WHATEVER SHE IS. If she's old enough to move out, tell her to do it. Get a job. Stop drinking. And get her ****ing life together and stop making such ridiculous decisions.
Tell her to stop feeling sorry for herself. Tell her to stop wallowing. She needs to move out of that horrible environment and be a REAL PERSON. Not for anyone else but for HERSELF. If no one else is going to treat her nicely then she should be the one to love herself. No matter how she ****ing thinks she looks like in the mirror. Maybe she needs to realize that MAYBE PEOPLE DON'T FIND DRUNKARD DROPOUTS ATTRACTIVE AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PHYSICAL LOOKS.

Tell them both to grow the **** up.
And start attracting more stable friends so that they don't MESS YOU UP, EITHER. You're living is such a goddamn negative environment that it's making you mentally ill, too.

Also. You CAN'T help them. No matter what you do or say. Don't expect to help them.. their problems are way worse than anything you can try to help them realize. They need professional help, and I'm serious. Don't start freaking hating on yourself because you can't help them. You're not a PROFESSIONAL, you're a kid.
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Old April 16th, 2010 (10:46 PM).
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My two cents:
Talk to her family, get help from the school, friends, whoever will listen. She'll be very, very angry and won't trust you, possibly for years. But you'll be saving her life, and if she's still alive down the road, she'll thank you for it.

I'm not really a professional, though; this is just what I'd do. You should talk to someone more qualified; this could very well be a bad thing to do, I honestly haven't been in this situation.
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Old April 17th, 2010 (09:08 AM).
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As angry as Kura came off, she (I assume she) had some very valid points. Their self-destructive (and selfish) behavior must stop if you're going to make much progress. Also, keep yourself safe- it's hard to help if you're passed out, or end up falling into their habits, or anything like that. And I'm serious when I say find someone else to involve. It could be a therapist or whoever, just somebody who is in a stable position in their life, and knows how to help or knows how to find help. The more people you can find who will take this sort of thing seriously, the better.
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Old April 17th, 2010 (09:50 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Åzurε:
As angry as Kura came off, she (I assume she) had some very valid points. Their self-destructive (and selfish) behavior must stop if you're going to make much progress. Also, keep yourself safe- it's hard to help if you're passed out, or end up falling into their habits, or anything like that. And I'm serious when I say find someone else to involve. It could be a therapist or whoever, just somebody who is in a stable position in their life, and knows how to help or knows how to find help. The more people you can find who will take this sort of thing seriously, the better.
My bad then.. I wasn't trying to come off angry, I was trying to come off as being passionate.
I noticed a few of Anxiety's blogs.. and man.. it really kills me to see him really down a lot of the time, so I just really wanted to let him know that I'm passionate and I want him to try to do the right thing in my eyes. I feel bad that he has to feel bad and lives around such negativity and confusion..
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Old April 20th, 2010 (10:32 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Anxiety.:
First off, this is a dead serious topic and I need serious help, so if you don't think you can do that don't bother replying - thanks in advance.

This isn't about a love relationship, either. Neither of them are.

Friend one.
Spoiler:

I've know my friend for 13 years, she's the only person I honest confide in and I really trust her with everything. Physically, she is so stunning it hurts. Admittedly, I have had a crush on her for a rediculous amount of time. She knows this, and she messes me about because she knows that if anything happens, she'll be the one I go to, and I'll be the one she goes to. I wouldn't go out with her, I don't think, because I respect her so much.

Now here is the problem. All over her arms, her upper thighs and knuckles are scars. Not cuts, but burns. She's burnt her upper thighs with hot metal rods, her arms with cigarettes, lighters and plain fire, and her knuckles are cut up because she cuts them, because they bleed alot and she likes to use the blood for artistic photos (Which look amazing, but thats not the point (She also punches walls in anger, but I do that too)) She takes drugs, a good amount to, smokes and gets drunk very often. She can be so happy, and then she'll snap and go crazy on people. She sets things on fire just for the fun of it (Admittedly, I do this aswell) and that didn't bother me until she told me she tried to set a girl on fire because she insulted her. She has an anger managment class at school, two phsycologists, and a therapist and she isn't really getting better.

I constantly ignore the way she abuses me because I'm aware of how mentally unstable she is. She sometimes just yells at me and tells me how terrible I am and that she hates me, and then she'll come out with the sweetest things ever, about a month ago she turned around after an argument about her trying to get high of paracetamol and said
"You're amazing, I love you and I respect you so much. Honestly, you're perfect. You have no faults because you stay with me and I know how much I abuse you, and I know that you don't care and you stick around anyway" which is huge coming from her.

I was doing well, until we had an argument because she didn't speak to me for no reason for about two months. She admitted to me that she had tried to commit suicide, via drowining herself in her bathroom, she still hasn't told me why she stopped half way through. Ever since then I've been constantly worrying about her, I love her too much to let her go, and I'm the only person who knows about her suicide attempt, and if she does it again and actually dies, I wont know what to do, and I'll blame myself, and end up with serious depression or something.

What can I do? What do I say to her and how do I help her without letting her know that I'm doing it?


Friend two.
Spoiler:

I've known her for two/three years, and she's changed my life a dramatic amount. She is one of those people I go to when I'm crying, and she always understands what I mean. This is also my sisters ex-girlfriend (They're still very close friends). Phsyically she is amazing, beautiful and I mean it.

Lets start off with her father. Emotionally abusive to her. He had a stroke a few years ago, and one night, for no reason he flipped and tried to break her arm, and when she pulled away, he tried to break her neck. She sat up in her room with the door and window locked, crying and talking to my sister for almost six hours (Just my guess)
And her brother. He used to be very close with her, until some family argument when she was twelve, he called her a ***** and left. He became very addicted to drugs and alcohol and it ruined her family life completely, as in, ripped it to shreds.
Her sister, a prostitute, or used to be, I'm not sure. Not all that nice to her.

And now her. She has gender dysphoria, which means her gender is different from her sex. Gender = Mentally, Sex = Phsyically. (Maybe its the opposite way around, but I think thats right) Mentally, she is male, and physically, she is female. As you can imagine, this causes so much confusion. Not many people believe her, including her mother who refuses to take her to threapy. This is giving her borderline depression. Much like me, she has anxiety and paranoia issues. She's very inclosed, she doesn't like to talk about her problems, so when she turned around and said 'I want to go to threapy' it was a big step. Her mother, as I said, refused, and now she isn't so sure again. She has dropped out of college and doesn't know what to do with her life. She's starting drinking more. She also hates the way she looks (Which I don't understand at all) I can see her breaking down, every time I look at her I think about how much she means to me, and I'm just watching her ruin herself.

How can I help her? She wont go to therapy now, is there something I can say? Anything?


So there you have it, my two most wrecked up friends. I can't handle it anymore, I can't watch them breaking themselves down. Please, tell me what to do, someone.

For the first chick... tell her to cut the crap with the drugs and drinking. Drugs NEVER solve problems; It creates more. I'm afraid you can't "help" her; All you have to do is to be there for her.

For the second... Her saying she wants therapy as a start is good, but I would not know why the mom would deny that. People with "gender dysphoria" [I wonder why it's a diagnosis/condition; I find it rather insulting since it's nothing bad] usually find themselves as the gender they prefer, so support him/her until she decides.
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