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  #26    
Old May 6th, 2010 (09:34 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Lightning:
Honestly? Japan is a very racist country. Or rather, it's very xenophobic.
^ This is very, very true. The Japanese are huge nationalists. If you're not Japanese, they look at you scornfully as if you're inferior. The funny thing is, a lot of them try to look more occidental with operations and hair dye, contact lenses, etc. 1/2 of them don't know what they want lol

I always thought Brock was considered "black", regardless his eyes. I'm sure there have been some black immigrants / tourists in Japan, though. They could have at least put black people in popular events / attractions in the anime. There have been some events that "attract people all over the world" so I don't see why it wouldn't attract a coloured person.
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Old May 6th, 2010 (09:34 AM).
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Most characters in anime seem Caucasian. The way Sugimori's art is, it's also hard to portray them as Asian without looking somewhat stereotypical (like Brock).

But yes, as others said, it's not like they don't like putting black people in Pokemon, it's that they don't come to mind as much as other races, and Pokemon portrays certain regions. But it's not like it will never happen. Americans are more conscious of different races though, which is why one of the Battle Revolution characters was given dark skin.

Quote originally posted by Yusshin:


so I don't see why it wouldn't attract a coloured person.
Watch yourself. That term could offend someone. It's very improper and outdated.
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  #28    
Old May 6th, 2010 (09:38 AM). Edited May 6th, 2010 by PiPVoda.
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Quote originally posted by FaithInMe:
I actually think that asking the question is semi-racist to begin with, why point out what people may assume is racial segregation. It doesnt do anyone any good.

Secondly, who really cares anyway? As far as Im aware no race on earth has complained about not having their ethnicity show up in pokemon.
First and foremost, its a game. It doesnt need to be over-analysed.
that was the point that I was trying to mention before my post got attacked. I am black, I don't really care what color or race the people in pokemon are. I've been playing the games for 7 years and watching the anime for close to 12 and I rarely thought of 'why don't they have any ___ people'. Honestly, I just see it as a game, nothing more.

Quote originally posted by Yusshin:

^ This is very, very true. The Japanese are huge nationalists. If you're not Japanese, they look at you scornfully as if you're inferior. The funny thing is, a lot of them try to look more occidental with operations and hair dye, contact lenses, etc. 1/2 of them don't know what they want lol

I always thought Brock was considered "black", regardless his eyes. I'm sure there have been some black immigrants / tourists in Japan, though. They could have at least put black people in popular events / attractions in the anime. There have been some events that "attract people all over the world" so I don't see why it wouldn't attract a coloured person.
Lets not get all stereotypical. I use to live next door to a Japanese family for two years, and their son was one of my best friends. Although I'm not Japanese I wasn't looked at as inferior and had a good time when around them...Though my Japanese friend was awfully ignorant of Chinese people. Like saying 'Chinese people smell' and I'd be like 'how do you know?' then he'd be like 'b/c I've ran into ones that came to Japan and they smelled..It's because of the food they eat.' (>_<). Yeah he was proud to be Japanese--sometimes too proud--but overall he was a pretty cool guy.

Quote originally posted by Captain Riolu:


Watch yourself. That term could offend someone. It's very improper and outdated.
No, I don't think it's offensive. Someone could find it offensive but hey that's just them.
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  #29    
Old May 6th, 2010 (09:43 AM).
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The reason for this is the lack of black people in Japan. When a human creates something, it usually reflects his surroundings. In the developers' case, Japan. Japan doesn't have many black people, and mostly are white people. I actually haven't even seen a picture of a black person in Japan. With no exaggeration, Instinctively most of the characters are shown to be white or ginger. Arcade Star Dahlia however is black. So, I am pretty sure no racism is meant. It's just their surroundings.
  #30    
Old May 6th, 2010 (09:46 AM).
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Quote originally posted by PiPVoda:
Though my Japanese friend was awfully ignorant of Chinese people. Like saying 'Chinese people smell' and I'd be like 'how do you know?' then he'd be like 'b/c I've ran into ones that came to Japan and they smelled..It's because of the food they eat.' (>_<).
That's like Americans with the French though, isn't it? Apart from me - I love France.
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  #31    
Old May 6th, 2010 (09:47 AM).
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I fear for Black and White versions overseas though. I've seen other boards handle it quite immaturely. They might have to jump on it and give it the Jynx treatment. IIRC, a Megaman game had Black and White versions, and was changed to Blue and White overseas.

Quote originally posted by Jolene:
That's like Americans with the French though, isn't it? Apart from me - I love France.
Canadians receive more hassle, from what I've seen, though I think it's more for fun.
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  #32    
Old May 6th, 2010 (10:01 AM). Edited May 6th, 2010 by PiPVoda.
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Quote originally posted by Captain Riolu:
I fear for Black and White versions overseas though. I've seen other boards handle it quite immaturely. They might have to jump on it and give it the Jynx treatment. IIRC, a Megaman game had Black and White versions, and was changed to Blue and White overseas.



Canadians receive more hassle, from what I've seen, though I think it's more for fun.
I hope that doesn't happen over here. I'd be soo pissed. Though I doubt Nintendo would change the title of a pokemon game. That would be like asking your parents for a million bucks--not happening! Some people just need to mature and realize that black & white aren't racial things. Like MJ says "If you're thinkin' about my baby it don't matter if you're black or white"

Quote originally posted by Jolene:
That's like Americans with the French though, isn't it? Apart from me - I love France.
Moi aussi! J'adore la france, et j'ai étudié le français pour deux ans. Though as you can tell my french still needs some improving. haha.


Quote originally posted by Captain Riolu:

Canadians receive more hassle, from what I've seen, though I think it's more for fun.
edit:: as you may have seen from the photo I had up

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  #33    
Old May 6th, 2010 (10:11 AM).
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Quote originally posted by PiPVoda:
Some people just need to mature and realize that black & white aren't racial things.


Sad thing is, a lot of America still isn't mature enough.


And while that pic is "true" and hilarious, you might want to take it out, as it has some bad stuff on it.

Sorry if I sound like a mod.
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  #34    
Old May 6th, 2010 (10:14 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Captain Riolu:
Sad thing is, a lot of America still isn't mature enough.


And while that pic is "true" and hilarious, you might want to take it out, as it has some bad stuff on it.

Sorry if I sound like a mod.
ohhh..the phrase used to refer to europe? okeedokee.
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  #35    
Old May 6th, 2010 (10:15 AM).
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Honestly I've never really thought about races in pokemon, but it makes sense that there aren't any black (minorities in general) people portrayed because as people here have stated and clarified, they are minute in Japan.

Quote originally posted by NatureKeeper:
The reason for this is the lack of black people in Japan. When a human creates something, it usually reflects his surroundings. In the developers' case, Japan. Japan doesn't have many black people, and mostly are white people.
They aren't mostly white people, they're mostly Japanese.
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  #36    
Old May 6th, 2010 (10:18 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Alistair:
Watch/Read Afro Samurai then come back to this thread, please.
+1. I freaking love Afro Samurai.

From what I understand, Japan is very close-minded against both black and white people. "Americans" in anime are typically blond(e) and blue-eyed. Anybody that isn't Japanese is considered a foreigner and given a stereotype.

I could be wrong though, this is just what I've heard from people I know that have lived in Japan.
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Old May 6th, 2010 (10:20 AM).
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Okay, first, I have lived in Japan for 2 years, and there are a LOT more Africans than there are African-Americans. Particularly in Tokyo. Still, when you throw in all of the Africans, African-Americans, African-Canadians, African-Australians, etc, etc, etc, it still doesn't amount to a measurable percentage of the population.

Second, I am going to switch from a subject of racism to a subject of nationalism directed against Americans (people from the USA). For all of our hyper-awareness of race and racism, the average American has no idea how to handle the subjects. And this thread just proves it. It almost always devolves into battles about which terms to use, rather than actually discussing the topic. Be careful of that.
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  #38    
Old May 6th, 2010 (10:23 AM).
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I'm wondering though, are there any Hispanic people in the series? I think there was one guy called Juan and he had a Ludicolo...Or am I just fantasizing here?

Quote originally posted by BleuVII:
Okay, first, I have lived in Japan for 2 years, and there are a LOT more Africans than there are African-Americans. Particularly in Tokyo. Still, when you throw in all of the Africans, African-Americans, African-Canadians, African-Australians, etc, etc, etc, it still doesn't amount to a measurable percentage of the population.

Second, I am going to switch from a subject of racism to a subject of nationalism directed against Americans (people from the USA). For all of our hyper-awareness of race and racism, the average American has no idea how to handle the subjects. And this thread just proves it. It almost always devolves into battles about which terms to use, rather than actually discussing the topic. Be careful of that.
You mean a couple of 13 year olds?

Don't bash America for immature kids...that's just my opinion on that (Granted. America can be ignorant.)
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  #39    
Old May 6th, 2010 (10:28 AM).
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Quote originally posted by BleuVII:
Second, I am going to switch from a subject of racism to a subject of nationalism directed against Americans (people from the USA). For all of our hyper-awareness of race and racism, the average American has no idea how to handle the subjects. And this thread just proves it. It almost always devolves into battles about which terms to use, rather than actually discussing the topic. Be careful of that.
How do you know all of the people in this thread are American? Even someone spelled it "coloured". That's not how Americans usually spell it.

And as far as I know, every English-dominant nation in the world is racially aware.


And when you're a melting pot country like America with a lot of racial confusion in its history, you're bound to run into a lot who can't handle the subject.
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Old May 6th, 2010 (10:30 AM).
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In a way, I'm kind of glad that we don't have black character in the games. I doubt that Sugimori could design a black character without it either looking like a palette-swap of a white character or like some kind of offensive caricature.

Quote originally posted by BleuVII:
Second, I am going to switch from a subject of racism to a subject of nationalism directed against Americans (people from the USA). For all of our hyper-awareness of race and racism, the average American has no idea how to handle the subjects.
And the best way to handle the subject is to not use the terminology at all. A black person living in America is an American. Even immigrants should be refered to as Americans.
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  #41    
Old May 6th, 2010 (10:35 AM).
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Firstly, this thread is getting alot of comments. I'm off for two seconds and there are 10 more posts.

Secondly, PiPVoda I never said it was racist I said it was CLOSE to Racist. Like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNYTp0I14b8
Now don't tell me you saw that coming. Most people would have assumed that. It's because those sort of things have been imprinted into our minds by society.
  #42    
Old May 6th, 2010 (10:38 AM).
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^You were gone for like an hour there bud...and what is the problem with a thread having many posts? That's just people doing what they're supposed to on a forum -Posting their opinions and discussing ideas.

But yeah, let's try and get back on topic:

Was there a Hispanic person in Pokemon? xD
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  #43    
Old May 6th, 2010 (10:47 AM).
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I would LOVE to see black people in pokemon. (no I'm not black although I wish I was lol)
We need more Asians too I think Brock is Asian (explains why he's so smart lol)
  #44    
Old May 6th, 2010 (10:48 AM). Edited May 6th, 2010 by PiPVoda.
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Quote originally posted by ChrisTom:
Firstly, this thread is getting alot of comments. I'm off for two seconds and there are 10 more posts.

Secondly, PiPVoda I never said it was racist I said it was CLOSE to Racist. Like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNYTp0I14b8
Now don't tell me you saw that coming. Most people would have assumed that. It's because those sort of things have been imprinted into our minds by society.
Sadly, you're right.

Quote:
In a way, I'm kind of glad that we don't have black character in the games. I doubt that Sugimori could design a black character without it either looking like a palette-swap of a white character or like some kind of offensive caricature.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BleuVII
Second, I am going to switch from a subject of racism to a subject of nationalism directed against Americans (people from the USA). For all of our hyper-awareness of race and racism, the average American has no idea how to handle the subjects.

And the best way to handle the subject is to not use the terminology at all. A black person living in America is an American. Even immigrants should be refered to as Americans.
I agree with you. Even if Sugimori wanted to put a black person in the pokemon games, it just wouldn't come out right more than likely.

and all blacks in America are American like you said. That's the term I use and it's the term others should use too.

Quote:
Second, I am going to switch from a subject of racism to a subject of nationalism directed against Americans (people from the USA). For all of our hyper-awareness of race and racism, the average American has no idea how to handle the subjects. And this thread just proves it. It almost always devolves into battles about which terms to use, rather than actually discussing the topic. Be careful of that.


We were barely discussing which terms to use. In fact it only just popped up a few posts before yours. Actually, I don't even know why this thread is still continuing!

@ .EJ: no I don't think so, and if there was he/she wouldn't be called 'hispanic' because that is a term only used in the USA (if I'm right).
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  #45    
Old May 6th, 2010 (10:51 AM).
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Quote originally posted by .EJ:
Was there a Hispanic person in Pokemon? xD
Juan is the only one that I can recall that is remotely Hispanic. Though it's mostly because of his English name.

Ludicolo is a Hispanic Pokemon though.
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  #46    
Old May 6th, 2010 (10:53 AM).
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I've just assumed like what most people are saying because the game is made in Japan, most characters are Japanese based.
I assume that if the game was made in a country where there are a lot of African people, then there would be more African based characters?
That's all I'm saying.
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Old May 6th, 2010 (11:49 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Yusshin:
The Japanese are huge nationalists. If you're not Japanese, they look at you scornfully as if you're inferior. The funny thing is, a lot of them try to look more occidental with operations and hair dye, contact lenses, etc. 1/2 of them don't know what they want lol
Quote originally posted by Captain Riolu:
Most characters in anime seem Caucasian. The way Sugimori's art is, it's also hard to portray them as Asian without looking somewhat stereotypical (like Brock).
I'm white, American, and I lived in Japan. I had maybe 5 or 6 bad experiences there in a year. The Japanese people I met were flattered I came to their country and wanted to learn about it or curious about me and my country or just indifferent. Most were indifferent. But, as I said, I'm white and American and those made it a lot easier for me.

Young people in Japan are a lot more open and accepting than some, I repeat, some of the older population. They don't look down on other people. They're not overly racist or xenophobic. It's just that the ones who are (like the ultra-nationalists) are very vocal about it.

Also, the people in Pokemon are supposed to be Asian. It's just that people from white-majority areas think they look white because that's their cultural context. When they want a character in Pokemon (or elsewhere) to look white they usually do something to make them stand out like give them a more squarish jaw or blond hair. Japanese people don't portray themselves as squinty eyed or whatever stereotype people in the West associate with them.

Spoiler:
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Old May 6th, 2010 (11:57 AM).
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Quote originally posted by PiPVoda:
@ .EJ: no I don't think so, and if there was he/she wouldn't be called 'hispanic' because that is a term only used in the USA (if I'm right).
And what would you rather call us?

Spanish? That refers to somebody from Spain. There are diverse countries that speak Spanish, collectively the people are called Hispanics. The only thing that comes to mind is "latino".
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Old May 6th, 2010 (12:08 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Scarf:

Also, the people in Pokemon are supposed to be Asian. It's just that people from white-majority areas think they look white because that's their cultural context. When they want a character in Pokemon (or elsewhere) to look white they usually do something to make them stand out like give them a more squarish jaw or blond hair. Japanese people don't portray themselves as squinty eyed or whatever stereotype people in the West associate with them.

Spoiler:
Squinty eyed, no. But there is no doubt that (alot of) Asian people have thinner eyes than other races.

You say Westerners stereotype, yet you give an example of Japanese stereotypes of Westerners (Lt. Surge). Not a good argument.

And they may not portray themselves as the stereotype, they sure are aware of it. Which is why Brock was replaced by Tracy.

And Fantina is a bad example. She is foreign only due to her habit of speaking English. She looks no "whiter" than Misty or Gardenia
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Old May 6th, 2010 (12:08 PM).
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The Pokémon world is based on Japanese regions, but it should be made clear that the Pokémon world is still a fictional world. There is no America, Africa, Asia, Minnesota (lol) or Japan for that matter. Just Kanto, Johto, Hoenn, and Sinnoh, and therefore, these discussions on races are moot, since the only people who can say what races should exist in the story are the creators of this orginal, fictional world. A world of which we've only seen such a small part of, really, so it's not unreasonable for the people to be mostly the same color.

That said, the most basic reasons for the lack of diversity would be because it is based on Japan (even though it isn't technically Japan), and the fact that the focus of the franchise is the Pokémon themselves, and not the aspects that make up the human population.

Going into these issues just complicates things, and in all honesty, if the creators made the conscious decision to include more people of other colors/races, we'd see much more discussions on the reasons why they did so, as well as why they chose to portray one race/color a certain way. It's all just so irrelevant to the much more preferred discussions on what our favorite Pokémon are, and what Pokémon are good for competitive battling...
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