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  #226    
Old June 22nd, 2011 (12:43 AM).
sheep261 sheep261 is offline
 
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Hi there everyone, I've come here for help with my fanfic, which I've only started and I want to make it be a great story which everyone can enjoy.

The plot I'm going along with is this:

Ash, who the reader discovers has been away from his friends for a long time, decides to return back home and see what has happened when he was away. When he speaks to his old Professor, Ash is told of what happened of the events that occurred when he left, which the reader will get multiple flashbacks if events, before Professor Oak tells Ash of a upcoming tournament. After this, Ash sets off on another journey to see his old friends, where he decides to hurt his friends in the same way they hurt him all though years go. These events would occur over numerous chapters, with each separate character possibly getting their own chapter, maybe two if needed, as some of the battles are going to be gyms ans possibly contests as well.

After all of this, Ash then heads off onto the tournament, which all of his friends will be attending as well, before the truth is revealed by the return of an old nemesis.

I know this might not be the best plot ever, so that's why I'm going to need some help with it. I'm open to any new ideas, and I'm especially grateful for constructive criticism as well.
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  #227    
Old June 22nd, 2011 (01:01 AM).
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Quote originally posted by sheep261:
Hi there everyone, I've come here for help with my fanfic, which I've only started and I want to make it be a great story which everyone can enjoy.

The plot I'm going along with is this:

Ash, who the reader discovers has been away from his friends for a long time, decides to return back home and see what has happened when he was away. When he speaks to his old Professor, Ash is told of what happened of the events that occurred when he left, which the reader will get multiple flashbacks if events, before Professor Oak tells Ash of a upcoming tournament. After this, Ash sets off on another journey to see his old friends, where he decides to hurt his friends in the same way they hurt him all though years go. These events would occur over numerous chapters, with each separate character possibly getting their own chapter, maybe two if needed, as some of the battles are going to be gyms ans possibly contests as well.

After all of this, Ash then heads off onto the tournament, which all of his friends will be attending as well, before the truth is revealed by the return of an old nemesis.

I know this might not be the best plot ever, so that's why I'm going to need some help with it. I'm open to any new ideas, and I'm especially grateful for constructive criticism as well.
Well, I'm glad you do have an abstract for your fic. Quite original (I think) since besides the tournament you'll also have Ash interact in interesting ways with his friends.

Keep in mind, however, that Ash was not the type to do contests in the anime, so you might want to scrap that possibility. Just focus on the league and his interactions with as many of his friends as possible and I'm sure your first fic will be a great one. Make sure you keep working on the details of all that.
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  #228    
Old June 23rd, 2011 (09:11 AM).
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Quote originally posted by sheep261:
Hi there everyone, I've come here for help with my fanfic, which I've only started and I want to make it be a great story which everyone can enjoy.

The plot I'm going along with is this:

Ash, who the reader discovers has been away from his friends for a long time, decides to return back home and see what has happened when he was away. When he speaks to his old Professor, Ash is told of what happened of the events that occurred when he left, which the reader will get multiple flashbacks if events, before Professor Oak tells Ash of a upcoming tournament. After this, Ash sets off on another journey to see his old friends, where he decides to hurt his friends in the same way they hurt him all though years go. These events would occur over numerous chapters, with each separate character possibly getting their own chapter, maybe two if needed, as some of the battles are going to be gyms ans possibly contests as well.

After all of this, Ash then heads off onto the tournament, which all of his friends will be attending as well, before the truth is revealed by the return of an old nemesis.

I know this might not be the best plot ever, so that's why I'm going to need some help with it. I'm open to any new ideas, and I'm especially grateful for constructive criticism as well.
Only thing I'm worried about is the part where you mention Ash will hurt his friends the way they hurt them. I don't see Ash the type to have grudges like that. Frustrations, maybe, but that's more when he didn't do so well in battles. Also, I don't see Ash's friends the type to hurt him/anyone either. If you have really, really good reason for that, though, then that part sounds interesting and would make for good character development for Ash.

Another thing is will the flashbacks be in several chapters too? If so, then you're having two plots going around here: what happened to Ash while he's away and him interacting with his friends again. I see this idea being broken down into two stories. I'll admit I'm not the biggest fan of sequels, but that's the only way I'm seeing this idea work.
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  #229    
Old June 23rd, 2011 (01:00 PM).
sheep261 sheep261 is offline
 
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Thanks for pointing this out Bay. When I mean Ash is going to "hurt" his friends, I don't mean physically, I meant to say mentally, as I putting in Ash wants to make them feel how he felt (which shall be explained soon if you read my chapter XD), but I can understand the confusion.

And about the flashbacks; these are only going to be based on 2 chapters as i don't need them to be long. The long parts are going to be when he meets his friends etc. I'm not planning to do a sequel, and I certainly wasn't planning one for this anyway.

Thanks for your help!
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  #230    
Old July 7th, 2011 (11:32 AM).
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I'm new to this site, but have an interesting story that needs a little help. If all goes well, I may turn it into a hack. its kinda long, so bear with me:

Once upon a time in New Bark Town, three boys met in school and became fast friends. Elm, the nerdy one, was being picked on when Giovanni and Palmer stepped in to save him. To thank the boys for saving his son, Elm’s father searched for an appropriate gift, and gave them each an Eevee to raise as their partner. The three boys spent every day together until they finished school, and all decided to move to Kanto to make lives for themselves. Elm quickly found a job as a scientist at the famous Saffron City Silph Corporation, while Palmer found a job at the Magnet Train and Giovanni began working to keep the local Gym in top shape. Within a few years, all three men found wives. Giovanni found a beautiful widow with a daughter named Karen. Palmer fell in love and married a wealthy girl from a prestigious and charitable family. And Elm married a sickly woman suffering from a chronic disease. The three families had children at about the same time. Elm’s wife gave birth to Lyra, a healthy girl with no sign of her mother’s illness. Giovanni’s wife gave birth to Gold, a baby boy whose smile warmed the hearts of all who saw him. Palmer’s wife gave birth to Silver, a happy boy who loved to play with Lyra and Gold. However, the strain of Lyra’s pregnancy almost killed her mother. Elm, realizing that his wife needed rest, decided to move his family back to New Bark Town to relax. He managed to get a research grant from Silph, and after waving bye to his friends, left for home. After constantly borrowing money from friends to support his family, Giovanni decided that his job at the Gym would not be enough, and started a life of crime. When Palmer found out, he was furious, but Giovanni told him that he would never understand because he had married rich. Palmer was honor-bound to not turn his friend over to the police, so instead did all he could to thwart the schemes of the newly formed crime syndicate. His efforts were noticed throughout Kanto, and he was nominated to a position on the Elite Four, the governing body of Kanto and Johto. Unfortunately, his actions provoked the crime syndicate, who made many attempts on his life. Meanwhile, through deceit and bribery, Giovanni had established himself as the head of all the crime in Kanto, and decided to name his operation Team Rocket, after the villainous group long forgotten in the nation’s history. He personally put a stop to the attempts on his old friend’s life, but at the same time was unable to stop a rouge group within Team Rocket from trying to aim at Palmer’s family one last time. Palmer was forced to move his family back to New Bark Town as well and finally accepted the position as Elite Four member. Now firmly in control of all the crime in Kanto, Giovanni took over Silph Co. and other legitimate businesses within the region, including the Magnet Train. He then moved his family back to New Bark Town as well, and bribed or threatened his way to become the Gym leader and Mayor of the nearby Blackthorn City. He knew it would take time, but Giovanni swore to himself that he would eventually rule all of Kanto and Johto.


In New Bark Town, Karen, Gold, Lyra and Silver grew up together. Lyra began to idolize Karen, and thought of her as a big sister. Silver fell in love with Karen, and competed with Gold and Lyra for her attention, but because of the age gap, was never really noticed. As time passed, Karen eventually left for Goldenrod to become a model, and with her father’s support, became the youngest Gym Leader and Mayor the city ever had. But tragedy struck when Silver’s mother was killed in a car accident. Sure of foul play, Silver stopped talking to Gold and Lyra, and focused on his schoolwork, but was never able to please his distant father. In the Meantime, Giovanni hatched a plan to take over both regions. Karen was happy to help her father in his goal, and prepared to take over the Goldenrod Radio Tower and broadcast a hypnotic signal across Kanto and Johto. Giovanni would also have help from his other two lieutenants: Koga, the Gym Leader and Mayor of Azalea town, who would turn a blind eye to the illegal activity in his town while synthesizing a special drug that would be useful to the mob, and Jasmine, the Gym Leader and Mayor of Olivine City, who owns a large steel mill, and would be running an illegal underground facility and dumping all of the chemical waste from her mill into a nearby lake, using the Mafia’s resources to avoid getting caught. Gold began hearing whispers of these plans, and decided to go on a journey to investigate. His mother however asked him to finish school first. At age sixteen, all three kids graduated high school early and decided to start their own journey. Elm became slightly overprotective of Lyra, and pleaded with her to stay, but was reassured that she would only go to Goldenrod to visit Karen. To prepare Gold for the journey ahead, Elm decided to offer him one of his three new research subjects sent from Silph. Gold sets out and decides to stop his father’s enterprises with his own hands, knowing full well that the entire police force has already been bought off. Silver vows revenge for his mother’s death, and leaves to crush them all, including his former friend: Gold. Yet his love for Karen remains unchanged.


After dealing with these separate problems, Gold goes to the ruling power of the two regions called the Elite Four and Champion, which includes his father’s old friend Palmer. After confronting them about their lack of action regarding the recent illegal activity, he returns home, only to receive a boarding pass for a ship that will take him to Kanto, where he uncovers the truth about his father’s past. In Kanto, Gold meets some of the Elite Four, who have left their posts and returned to being Gym Leaders in their home towns. After getting the answers he wants, Gold returns home, only to find that his trip to Kanto was only a ploy to get him out of the way. While he was gone, his father, sister, Koga, and Jasmine have all taken positions on the Elite Four. Giovanni takes the top position as Champion, while Palmer retains his position as the one right below. The remaining three spots are taken by the three mayors. Also, Giovanni has passed a law stating that no one under a certain age can take office, which was made to stop Gold from taking power. Gold returns home to find his mother, father, and sister casually enjoying a meal. After taking a deep breath and thinking about all that has happened, Gold sits down to eat with his family.


this story is all about family, politics, light and dark. I want to bring back the mafia elements from R/B/Y, but make it like The Godfather, while at the same time make it about light and dark like Star Wars. So far, I'm sure that Palmer will be an Electric Type trainer (Light), while Giovanni will be the Dark Type trainer who is a combination of Don Corleone and Darth Vader. Any other ideas?
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  #231    
Old July 7th, 2011 (07:55 PM).
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I'll move this to the Plot Bunny thread for you as that thread is for getting feedback on story ideas.

I'll note that canonically Palmer's son is Barry, or well, the rival in D/P/Pt, not Gold. That and also canonically (both in the manga and in the games via default names) Silver is the name of Giovanni's son and Gold is the GSC protagonist. I'm also curious as to why they travel at the age of 16 after high school given in Pokemon trainers tend to leave at an earlier age and all. That and Giovanni is a Ground Type trainer... so although this seems to be in a alternate universe a few of those things stuck out to me as a bit odd when I glanced at what you have so far.
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  #232    
Old July 8th, 2011 (01:17 PM). Edited July 8th, 2011 by superjesus.
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I am well aware of the existing canon and have even gone so far as to watch pokemon live (It Will All Be Mine) and read almost all of pokemon adventures (manga) for any loose ends. however, this story has the whole dad-is-badguy thing from star wars, and i always thought that silver looks too evil to be a protagonist. the reverse is then true for silver, whose father is a good guy, but ends up evil. one of the themes will be NOT following your set path, and instead choosing your own destiny. I'm thinking that when gold finally meets his father at blackthorn gym, giovanni explains that everything up till now was just training to take over team rocket, and thats why every trainer became gradually stronger. also, one of the things i always hated about rpgs in general was that people always give you random stuff. in this story, every gift item that is not earned (most key items) will be given due to giovanni's influence. he is setting the whole thing up. As for school, wanted to make it clear that all the characters are intelligent teenagers, instead of completely naive 10 year olds. i figured that graduating early would demonstrate that well. also, im going for the gritty realism (except for the pokemon) so i thought school would be a natural choice.

thanks for reading, though.
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  #233    
Old July 22nd, 2011 (11:52 PM).
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THE PLOT - team rocket magma and aqua have come to together to form a truce they have understood that there is no sense fighting against each other.They are terrorizing and every1 and imprisoning anyone who dares to stop them.even prof oak is missing.people hv no choice but to cooperate and watch them torture pokemon and use them for evil purposes

brendan,ash,gary,etc. hv been defeated and imprisoned an old man who is about to be executed leaves his pokemon (lugia) in the hands of a young boy/protangonist.it is upto him to save the world.

ANY FEEDBACK WILL BE APPRECIATED

THANKS.
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  #234    
Old July 23rd, 2011 (04:32 AM).
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Quote originally posted by topgunitsme:
THE PLOT - team rocket magma and aqua have come to together to form a truce they have understood that there is no sense fighting against each other.They are terrorizing and every1 and imprisoning anyone who dares to stop them.even prof oak is missing.people hv no choice but to cooperate and watch them torture pokemon and use them for evil purposes

brendan,ash,gary,etc. hv been defeated and imprisoned an old man who is about to be executed leaves his pokemon (lugia) in the hands of a young boy/protangonist.it is upto him to save the world.

ANY FEEDBACK WILL BE APPRECIATED

THANKS.
I suppose my main questions would be to why they formed a truce in that there was 'no sense fighting each other' - only way I can see that happening is them realising that their own goals are odd (because they're pretty much complete opposites - one is for expanding landmass, the other at reducing it. That and they're no so much criminal gangs as eco-terrorists acting on what they truly think is 'right' by canon.) And I'm not sure why they need to agree when you could have your own teams cooperating or rather just one completely different team with more power then them. That's need to be well established in the story to be believable to readers though if you keep to Magma and Aqua working together.

I'd also like to know how the old man has a Lugia himself and is unable to use it as well to break out and so forth, so that would have to be carefully considered - why he'd only be able to give it to another trainer. I'm interesting in how said trainer would get by with his sudden legendary in his possession - certainly a lot of potential there but it depends how you go about it I suppose.
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  #235    
Old July 23rd, 2011 (05:53 AM).
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first of all thank you for your feedback.......

the truce was formed because they knew that they would never achieve their goals if they kept fighting each other...

now the three factions have their own seperate territories....

the old man was about to be executed so he gave his lugia to the young boy who then escaped and became a "fugitive" considering the that the bad guys are running the place.The old man thought that the young boy was their only hope.how did the old man get the lugia??? well he was a great trainer when he was young and the other pokemon were stolen from him and he somehow managed to protect the lugia

i shall now expand more this.....

instead of gym leaders there are admins appointed by the respective bosses and instead of the elite four there are the bosses and the fourth one is mewtwo(both as a trainer and a pokemon).

and the protagonist has to defeat them all.

instead of pokemon centres there are underground places in each city where pokemon and can be healed and items can be bought.
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  #236    
Old July 23rd, 2011 (07:03 AM).
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Quote originally posted by topgunitsme:
the truce was formed because they knew that they would never achieve their goals if they kept fighting each other...
They won't gain anything if they work together, either. Their goals conflict.

Put it this way. The reason why Aqua and Magma fight is because they want completely different things. Aqua wants to expand the oceans because they believe that doing this will give land-dwellers more water to use for crops/drinking/whatever. Magma wants to expand the land because they believe doing that would give land-dwellers more room to farm/roam around/whatever. Because there's limited space on the planet, naturally, Aqua and Magma are against each other because if one of them achieved their goals, the other would logically fail at theirs. You can't have both of them achieving what they set out to do at the same time.

Rocket, meanwhile, just wants to take over the world, so it'd be in their best interests to wait until the evil teams of each region just destroyed themselves one way or another. (That's what their strategy was in the anime-verse's Sinnoh, anyway.) What makes the conflict between Magma and Aqua convenient for the Rockets is that they're pretty much killing each other due to a massive stalemate, so the Rockets just have to sit back and watch the fighting until both teams finally beat each other into the ground. (This is also sort of what happened in the anime.)

So, you have two teams that directly oppose each other because their goals completely conflict and one team that doesn't give a crap so long as they're the ones left standing. Therefore, while Team Rocket might team up with another evil team (although this would mean they'd have to take care of that team at the end in order to get all of the planet), you can't have Teams Aqua and Magma forming a truce until you decide who's giving up their goals and why... which actually defeats the purpose of what you were saying (about how the teams are working together to achieve their goals).

Now, while you could argue that each team is just focusing on achieving their goals in a particular region, keep in mind that each one is focusing on a global level. Team Rocket wants to take over the world, and they don't want to share it with anyone else but themselves. Team Aqua wants to help the world by expanding all of the oceans. Team Magma wants to help the world by expanding all of the landmasses. They wouldn't be satisfied with just part of the world. After all, Team Rocket will look at the shares their fellow teams have and think about what would happen if it was theirs, and Teams Aqua and Magma would worry about the land-dwellers in the other two regions. So, you're back to having them form conflicts with each other.

I guess this is all just saying that not every evil team is the same as another one. Shrugging off the goals that they actually have will just circle back to that same question of why they're teaming up. Rather, if you really must have each evil team form a truce, you'll want to think about how those teams operate and what goals they're giving up. Especially with Teams Aqua and Magma, whose goals are pretty much completely different from every other evil team (including each other).

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the old man was about to be executed so he gave his lugia to the young boy
...But you really didn't answer bobandbill's question, if you don't mind me saying so.

Lugia are legendary Pokémon, which means they're generally extremely powerful and rare. Most legendaries are even hidden in places that are pretty difficult to get to, and Lugia is most certainly one of those kinds. (I mean, it's not just enough for Lugia to hide in a cave. Nope. It has to hide in a cave surrounded by dangerous whirlpools.) So, that would imply that the old man is a pretty strong and powerful person, especially if he was able to keep Lugia tame after all of those years. How, then, would he be captured, and why didn't he simply use Lugia to escape? I mean, even if we don't consider the old man himself (although we should, considering he had to have been in good condition to get Lugia in the first place), you've got an ancient and powerful Pokémon that could easily Aeroblast the crap out of any of its master's potential captors. And even if the old man was caught, that would just mean that Lugia would easily Aeroblast the roof off the jail cell and sweep its master to safety. Why, then, would he simply give his legendary Pokémon to some kid he doesn't know instead of use it to defend himself? (Be careful with the answer to this. You've also implied that Lugia helps the boy to escape, so if that's the case, then there really shouldn't be much of a reason why Lugia couldn't help its master to do so.)

Not to mention you'll want to be warned. Giving a kid a legendary tends to lead to creating a Mary Sue. I won't say for certain that this boy is because, obviously, I know nothing about him, but I will say that if everything comes easy to him after that point, yes, you could have a Sue on your hands.

Other than that, looks like a standard trainer fic crossed with a crapsack world. It might have potential, but first, you'd have to fill in the above plot holes to get it to work.
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  #237    
Old July 23rd, 2011 (11:00 AM).
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i would like to thank you for your feedback..


now if team aqua and magma are fighting then they both r surrounded by both sides cuz there r ppl who will be trying to fight them so this truce has been made so that they both compromise a little and are able to fight off opposition you may have heard of this in kg "united we stand,divided we fall".all three teams have understood their mistake they thought that they should now work together cuz then it will be easier to crush anyone who dares to stop them.its like there are 3 mafia families...

and srry i forgot to mention that this "lugia" is an offspring of lugia ...and the old man sacrificed himself for this boy as he was too old to fight pokemon battles so he gives this lugia (lvl 5 of course) to this boy.He belives that this boy can fight off the 3 teams.
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  #238    
Old July 23rd, 2011 (11:41 AM).
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Quote originally posted by topgunitsme:
now if team aqua and magma are fighting then they both r surrounded by both sides cuz there r ppl who will be trying to fight them so this truce has been made so that they both compromise a little and are able to fight off opposition you may have heard of this in kg "united we stand,divided we fall".all three teams have understood their mistake they thought that they should now work together cuz then it will be easier to crush anyone who dares to stop them.its like there are 3 mafia families...
Still doesn't answer the initial question. The problem is that Teams Aqua and Magma are against each other because their goals are just not compatible.

To make it clearer, let's say you're a one-man team called Team Apple, I'm on a team called Team No-Apple, and there's a table between us with an apple sitting on it. Now, it's your goal as part of Team Apple to get that apple and keep it for yourself because apples are delicious and everything you need. It's my goal to take that apple and throw it in a fire because I believe that apples are the cause of everything that's wrong with the world. If I compromise with you, then that means we're at a stalemate because neither of our goals would get accomplished. If I let you have the apple, I fail at destroying the apple. If you give me the apple, then you fail because you don't get to protect the apple. It's a no-win situation.

In the same vein, think of it like this. Team Aqua is about taking away land, whereas Team Magma is about giving more of it to people. Meanwhile, Team Magma is about taking away water, whereas Team Aqua is about giving more of it to people. If Team Magma gave in, that would mean Team Aqua would take away land and give people more water, but if Team Aqua gave in, that would mean Team Magma would take away water and give people more land. That's why it's no-win, and that's why they're completely against one another.

Team Rocket, meanwhile, is against every evil team technically. Back to the apple example, let's say bobandbill is a member of Team Every Apple, whose goal is to take every apple in the world and put them in boxes so that no one else can get them. If he teamed up with you, that means all the apples are saved, I'm defeated, and he can waltz in and backstab you whenever he wants. If he teamed up with me, that means no one gets apples, I win, and he can still backstab me whenever he wants. However, if he decides to work exactly as he is (read: not benefiting either side but instead attempting to work towards his own goal himself), then that means we both lose because the apples are put in a box. Team Apple loses because no one gets to benefit from delicious, delicious apples, and Team No Apple loses because the bane of the universe still exists... just in the hands of a megalomaniac dictator who will use the mystical power of apples to force everyone else into submission. Still no-win.

Team Rocket is a lot like this. Its main goal, as I've mentioned earlier, is to take over the world. There's various ways it can do this. One of them is by giving one team the advantage, letting that team destroy the opposition, and stepping in to backstab that team and take their share. Another is to work on its own, biding its time while the other teams destroy each other/get destroyed by ten-year-olds and their friends, or simply seizing power while the others are preoccupied with doing their own thing. Either way, ultimately, Team Rocket wants the world to itself, and dividing it among various people doesn't sit well with them because that means that, ultimately, they have competition. (Side note: If you'd really like to know, gangs and mafia families are also like this. Competition is not something that they'd particularly like to have around, and it's easier to destroy -- if not attempt to assimilate -- other groups than it is to be more than one crime family existing at the same time in essentially the same territory.)

In other words, you still have to consider what each team is after. A lot of writers have tried in the past to get various evil teams to unite and take over the world or whatnot, but in doing so, they completely ignore the main point of each group. As a result, it's the same thing as taking a character completely OOC. It's just missing the point of what those characters are trying to do. That's why fics with team-ups tend to fall flat on their faces.

Quote:
and srry i forgot to mention that this "lugia" is an offspring of lugia ...and the old man sacrificed himself for this boy as he was too old to fight pokemon battles so he gives this lugia (lvl 5 of course) to this boy.He belives that this boy can fight off the 3 teams.
While there's been baby Lugia in the anime, they usually come complete with overprotective parents who would Aeroblast the crap out of anyone who would attempt to capture them. So, the fact that the old man still had a baby Lugia without getting fried doesn't quite sit well with me.

Second, it's still a Lugia. If we're still going by anime canon, it's not entirely unheard of for Pokémon to act on their own to protect their owners, and Lugia are still immensely powerful Pokémon. So, the question of why this one didn't just help the old man to break out still stands.

Third, may I ask why it's important for the protagonist to have a Lugia/why this moment is, in general, important for the plot? I mean, the entire part about the old man just feels like a plot point for getting the protagonist a legendary starter, and given the fact that the evil teams could capture it and its trainer in the first place, it feels like it wouldn't matter whether the main character had a Lugia or not. If there was some significant reason why the kid's starter has to be a Lugia (like its particular powers are exactly what are needed to take down the teams' doomsday device or what-have-you), maybe it'd be easier to swallow, but right now, it looks like you're having the MC go on what equates to a badge quest while taking down a dystopian government. A character can do that with a Rattata, and honestly, it'd probably be more interesting to read about (because that would involve watching the character struggle to get that Rattata strong enough to beat anything, as opposed to watching the character just have Lugia Aeroblast whatever was in its way).
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  #239    
Old July 23rd, 2011 (01:40 PM).
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lucky topgun gets all the attention. still, its an interesting story, and I think the divide between magma and aqua could be factored into the story. for example, the temporary truce they had created to gain control of the region would be over, and they would start attacking each other, with team rocket of course waiting it out. this makes sense because they could get rid of any opposition like law enforcement or 10 year old masters, then focus on each other. maybe the main character could act as a double agent, destroying both from the inside, or have a branching storyline where you could team up with either group and eventually beat the rockets and save the old man.
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Old July 23rd, 2011 (02:01 PM).
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Quote originally posted by superjesus:
lucky topgun gets all the attention.
Honestly, the reason why I didn't respond to your idea is because it could potentially trigger a rant about AUs, canon, why teenagers are not necessarily intelligent in comparison with preteens depending on who you're talking about, the definition of "gritty realism," and the use of Star Wars as a model for any kind of story. Suffice to say, it's not my cuppa, but it might be someone else's. Might. Depending on how it's written.

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and I think the divide between magma and aqua could be factored into the story.
*nods* My point exactly.

Quote:
for example, the temporary truce they had created to gain control of the region would be over, and they would start attacking each other, with team rocket of course waiting it out. this makes sense because they could get rid of any opposition like law enforcement or 10 year old masters, then focus on each other. maybe the main character could act as a double agent, destroying both from the inside, or have a branching storyline where you could team up with either group and eventually beat the rockets and save the old man.
This is a viable possibility that could fix that plot hole, although it would mean that topgun would have to pitch his idea of "kid goes around a dystopia defeating all the leaders of a bunch of villainous teams." After all, if he wants his story to take place after the teams gained power, that would mean that Team Aqua and Magma would focus on destroying each other, which in turn would probably mean there's no reason for the kid to get involved unless the teams were thinking about resurrecting Hoenn's legendaries again.

But in any case, it's a possibility that makes more sense than "Teams Aqua and Magma are practically BFFs now" with no reference to the fact that they're pretty much against equal and opposite things. Still, it's ultimately up to topgun what goes on in his story, and if he wants to keep the dystopia, I'd highly encourage him to think about how to keep the dystopia while still making sense about it, which in turn involves doing a lot of thinking about how each team operates and why they're doing what they're doing in canon.

As a side note, it's generally a good idea, when offering advice on improving a plot bunny, to avoid giving an author an entire plot bunny yourself. (As in, yes to plot advice. No to "you should have the character do X, Y, and Z!") The reason why is because your main goal in these kinds of threads is to get a writer to think about the weaknesses and possibilities of their plot, rather than to think about another plot entirely. I do admit that I proposed having the kid get an ordinary Pokémon instead, but notice that this was an example to show that there needs to be more thought put into the Lugia part (or to show that there's other possibilities besides giving the kid a Lugia and risking Sueism).
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  #241    
Old July 23rd, 2011 (02:44 PM).
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I'm not too good at plots myself but what if the teams were going to resurrect the legendaries again and the lugia was the only one that was powerful enough to stop them. You could have the lugia be stubborn because it misses the old man and it needs to gain the trust of the boy first so he can't just use it to ultimately win every battle, and when he did you the lugia it would be a challenge because he would have to get it to listen.

And the goal would be to train the lugia and gain it's trust to have a battle at the end.
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Old July 23rd, 2011 (03:33 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Xyrin:
I'm not too good at plots myself but what if the teams were going to resurrect the legendaries again and the lugia was the only one that was powerful enough to stop them. You could have the lugia be stubborn because it misses the old man and it needs to gain the trust of the boy first so he can't just use it to ultimately win every battle, and when he did you the lugia it would be a challenge because he would have to get it to listen.

And the goal would be to train the lugia and gain it's trust to have a battle at the end.
Point to note: You'd still have to answer the two main plot holes (why the evil teams aren't just going at each other whenever they try to resurrect their respective legendaries and why Lugia didn't simply help the old man to escape). In fact, going at this angle makes the second plot hole even more pressing to answer, considering it's emphasizing that the Lugia is powerful and cares about the old man.

But other than that, this could be a possibility for how to work the story too.

So... yeah. Basically, the main issue with topgun's plot isn't so much the little things that are on the outlying edge of it (like risking making the main character a Sue) but instead the two biggest plot holes around which the story is unfortunately centered. In other words, if those two plot holes don't get patched up, you can offer plots all you want, but there will still be things that are off about it.
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  #243    
Old July 24th, 2011 (02:23 AM). Edited July 24th, 2011 by topgunitsme.
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Now here what im trying to point out is that there is a temporary truce in the sense that team apple , no-apple and all-apple will get apples in equal quantities for the time being and they have their own territories in which they have autonomy this has been done to fight off any opposition. i know that they cant work together but this truce would not last forever will it?. The protagonists job becomes more difficult.now untill all opposition has been eliminated they will work togther and after that their war will begin.they first want to make sure their are no good guys.backstabbing and all that stuff is the inside story i just wanted to sketch out a plot first and see if it sounds interesting.


as for the lugia..... as you lugia is supposed to be a "good" pokemon and immensely powerful now what im saying is that the old man is not able to fight any battles because of his age and now he trusts his young boy and belives that he can do something.The old man got this lugia because he had the parent lugia whose whereabouts are unknown.plus this baby lugia needs to be trained the old man stopped training his pokemon years ago and he did not train this baby lugia he just kept it like a pet. he lost interest in pokemon battles when he realised he was too old for that stuff.

superjesus's and xyrins's ideas are good and it could be like you both pointed. lugia could be a little stubborn at first and xyrin ur idea is interesting i should give a little thought to it...
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  #244    
Old July 24th, 2011 (10:16 AM).
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Quote originally posted by topgunitsme:
Now here what im trying to point out is that there is a temporary truce in the sense that team apple , no-apple and all-apple will get apples in equal quantities for the time being and they have their own territories in which they have autonomy this has been done to fight off any opposition. i know that they cant work together but this truce would not last forever will it?. The protagonists job becomes more difficult.now untill all opposition has been eliminated they will work togther and after that their war will begin.they first want to make sure their are no good guys.backstabbing and all that stuff is the inside story i just wanted to sketch out a plot first and see if it sounds interesting.
Point is it could work if you make it clear that this is what's going on. A lot of people tend to think of Team Aqua and Team Magma as being the same as Team Rocket, so they have the three teams (or two out of three) team up without addressing the fundamental differences that make Aqua and Magma what they are (that is, their goals and how much they differ). As a result, the plot ends up feeling like it has a massive plot hole because this fact is never addressed in those other fics.

Also keep in mind that Aqua and Magma don't actually think of themselves as bad guys. (At least, not outside of Special canon.) After all, their goals are ultimately to benefit all life on the planet, especially other land-dwellers. They have no desire to take over anything, actually. They just want to change the face of the planet so that land-dwellers have more land to expand their civilization (in Magma's case) or so that land-dwellers have more water to function (in Aqua's case). You'd therefore have to address why they'd be putting aside their differences to take over a region or why they're teaming up with a team that's blatantly an evil organization.

In other words, there are ways it could work, and yes, they could team up to get rid of opposition first. However, you'd still have to address the fact that their goals are not to take over particular regions, that they have no desire to set up dystopias, and that they don't think of themselves as evil. In other words, now that you have the issue of how they're working together out of the way, you'd have to consider with a lot of thought what they're trying to do.

Quote:
what im saying is that the old man is not able to fight any battles because of his age
First off, age doesn't matter. There have been instances of people who are older and still fighting. (At least, in game canon.) Besides, it's Pokémon who do most of the work.

Moreover, this is still a Lugia, so if the boy uses it to break out of wherever they're being held, then why wouldn't Lugia act on its own to help its own trainer?

Not to mention what really doesn't make sense is why the old man just sort of gives up. I mean, he's up for execution. Wouldn't he want to use any advantage he could to survive? It really doesn't matter whether or not he trusts the boy to defeat the teams because if he's up for being executed, that could very well happen before the boy even has a chance to go up against the team leader. He really doesn't know. Moreover, if he just met the boy, he really doesn't have much to go on when it comes to judging his character, right? So, he has no way to tell whether or not he would even succeed or whether or not the kid would be strong enough to handle Lugia.

This is actually one of the issues you'd want to address if you use the "Lugia refuses to listen to the trainer" plot. If the man gives the kid his Lugia without even bothering to think about whether or not he'd be able to tame the legendary, he's basically sticking a monster capable of blasting someone into the ground with someone who may or may not have the skill to keep it from doing that. That and he's resting the fate of the world on someone who can't handle using the key to save it, if that makes sense. I mean, this is going to be the kid's starter, right? If Lugia refuses to listen, that means the kid will have a rough time getting other Pokémon, and considering the fact that he's trying to fight against an evil government, that means he should be learning quickly because they'll probably know that he's, you know, blasted his way out of prison. I mean, he is a prisoner too, right? So, it's very likely that the evil teams, who are keeping tabs on any potential opposition, would know that there's a kid with a Lugia running around, so that kid had better know how to use the Lugia if he's not going to have anything else to defend himself with. Not to mention he'd probably be preoccupied with running instead of attempting to get Lugia to obey him.

Beyond that, wouldn't Lugia draw unnecessary attention towards him? I mean, it's a legendary, and given the fact that very few other people have legendaries, the teams would know to look for a kid with a Lugia. And if they took down a grown man with a Lugia and other powerful Pokémon, they'd probably know how to take down a rookie trainer with no Pokémon except a Lugia that won't listen to him. Not to mention that as soon as people saw the Lugia, they'd probably make a rather big fuss about it. And considering this is a dystopia, it's possible that you might have people reporting him to the authorities/grunts/what-have-you for perks like "please leave my family alone."

But anyway.

Quote:
The old man got this lugia because he had the parent lugia whose whereabouts are unknown.
So, he lost a legendary Pokémon.

One of the things you should probably keep in mind is the same process that you're considering putting your main character through. Gaining the trust of a legendary would be hard, especially because they're powerful and potentially ancient Pokémon. In anime canon, they don't just listen to anyone, and goodness help whoever thinks they're one of the rare ones who can tame them. So, if this old man had a Lugia for a long time, then it's rather strange that he lost a Pokémon that not only came to trust him deeply but also one that's been faithful to him for a long while. Not only that, but it's also unusual that it left behind its child. Anime canon (i.e., the only one that has shown legendaries to have children) has shown us that anyone who attempts to separate a parent from a baby legendary will likely get their face Aeroblasted off.

Quote:
he lost interest in pokemon battles when he realised he was too old for that stuff.
But the Pokémon are a different story because battling is part of their instincts. Put it this way. Say you have a pet dog. You don't do dog battling or anything like that. Now, someone comes along and beats the crap out of you in front of that dog. Most likely, said dog will do something -- bark, bite you, jump on you, whatever. Pokémon are like that as well, only they wield mystical powers that make biting you even worse. So, yeah, it's unusual that several powerful Pokémon (the baby Lugia included) would just stand by and let themselves be killed while their owner gets captured, imprisoned, and sentenced to execution.

Not to mention, again, he's being sentenced to execution. If you know how to shoot a gun but have no desire to do it, you're still going to shoot a gun if you have one and if someone else is trying to kill you.

So I guess this leads me to ask, "But why doesn't the old man escape with the kid and then possibly go into hiding?" I mean, if you iron out the oddities of having a Lugia in the first place, having the old man give his Lugia to the boy because he's too old to be saving the world could work, but the main problem is he's still leaving himself to be executed.

That all said, yes, I get that you want to see whether or not this idea could be interesting. As I've tried to say, basically, the key to whether or not a story is interesting is all in the execution. The point of this thread is basically to help authors iron out kinks in their ideas and create from that a workable story. In your case, there's a lot for you to think about and sort through. It could work, yes, but there's a lot of questions that need to be answered. Moreover, once you answer those questions, there's others that pop up... and so on and so forth down the line. So, I guess this means you'll want to think a bit more about your plot and all of the things you want to do with it.
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  #245    
Old July 24th, 2011 (10:51 AM).
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Quote originally posted by topgunitsme:
Now here what im trying to point out is that there is a temporary truce in the sense that team apple , no-apple and all-apple will get apples in equal quantities for the time being and they have their own territories in which they have autonomy this has been done to fight off any opposition. i know that they cant work together but this truce would not last forever will it?.
But team No-apple wants NO apples at all. that means they're all failing and none but Team apple in a box is winning.
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Old July 24th, 2011 (10:48 PM).
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these two plot holes can easily be patched up with a bit of outside the box thinking.

Hows this: first, the parent lugia could only be befriended by the old man, but was captured alongside him and put into cryogenic freeze (thank you, futurama). its not some sort of god, it can be captured by by the bad guys. the evil teams are not trying to kill the old man, but find out from him how to control said lugia. he managed to hide the baby lugia and pass it off to the main character, who must raise it to save the geezer and parent lugia. Team rocket, who promised extra resources to magma and aqua if they stopped fighting each other and helped create the new world, is now sitting back and watching the two fight it out. both teams need an advantage, and hunt down the main character for his lugia. its still a baby, so all it knows is basic moves, no aeroblast.

the evil teams always planned to backstab each other, but were waiting until the perfect chance, and are still trying to resurrect groudon/kyogre. they made the deal with team rocket because they are eco-terrorists with good ideals, but basically sold their souls to the devil for extra cash that they hope they can use better than their opponents. now that team rocket has what it wants, they let the other teams try to capture the baby. as the story starts, the truce breaks.

there could be a branching storyline where the main character joins either aqua or magma and captures the legendary, only to battle the opposing main villain who has the other legendary. either way, the last boss would be giovanni who finally managed to control the parent lugia.

there. I just got the entire story started. you're welcome.

but seriously, can anyone give me feedback on my story? please?
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Old July 25th, 2011 (02:59 AM).
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again im repeating what i said earlier....the three teams have come together but its a temporary truce....

btw every evil organisation denies that they are not "bad guys".....terrorists,for example believe that they are working for mankind.

yes they are teaming up for now but they dont really trust each other they belive that they will get rid of the good guys and then fight amongst themselves so that at no point of time they are surrounded on 2 sides and yeah team rocket can sit back and watch the action but before that the protangonist will obviously crush the three teams.

what superjesus explained in the 1st para is what i was thinking about a little different but yeah the general idea is the same.
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  #248    
Old July 25th, 2011 (03:46 AM). Edited July 25th, 2011 by JX Valentine.
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Except, topgun, for the fact that Team Rocket openly admits to being evil, and Teams Aqua and Magma think their opposite is evil. Your logic, then, doesn't entirely work for the same reason why they never teamed up in canon: because Teams Aqua and Magma, who operate solely for their idea of good, wouldn't team up with something they believed is evil and against their cause. Basically speaking, it'd be a lot like terrorists working side-by-side with the exact people who embody everything they hate. Alliances just don't work that way. (High five, by the way, Xyrin.)

But if you're really that passionate about keeping the alliance, then by all means, go ahead and write it. There's not much else you'll probably get out of this thread if multiple people just keep on circling back to "I really don't think it will work" versus "but it's totally a good idea." :/

Also, superjesus, you wrote the story for someone instead of let them think about it and demanded our attention, so if you don't mind me being blunt, I'm honestly less inclined to give you feedback. I will say, though that you seem to be disregarding canon for rather superficial reasons (e.g. "Silver looks too evil to be a protagonist" and what amounts to "my moral > its execution"). I just want to say you can still write a good fic with a good. Point without violating canon. Special actually has a Giovanni like you described, for example. So, you just have to be creative with it.

However, when you start violating canon for "artistic reasons," you might as well write whatever you merry well please because it really doesn't matter anymore how you're delivering your point. You could say all those characters are ducks, and we'd have to buy it because something else has become more important than delivering the point by using recognizable characters and backgrounds (i.e. half the point of fanfiction).

Edit: I've decided to expand my response to you, superjesus.

Basically speaking, there's a number of issues I have with your plot idea, all of them would trigger my rant mode. First and foremost, of course, is the way you treat canon. You completely pitch any and all backstory that these characters have in favor of what's basically a bunch of trite love triangles all over the place, including apparently a "homage" to Star Wars. (Side note: Evil dad is a trope older than dirt. Oh, Greek mythology, for one example. But anyway.) Seriously, if you replaced all of those characters with original ones, you'd get pretty much the same story, and it'd make a lot more sense to a reader.

See, the tricky thing about fanfiction is that there's a reason why you need to color inside some of the lines. All of the characters (with the exception of Elm) are immensely popular, so a lot of readers, when they go into your fic, will do so with the expectation that they're about to read about the Giovanni they know, for example. When that Giovanni isn't delivered, you have a higher chance of disappointing them, confusing them (by making them think your story is riddled with plot holes), or by having them call you out on your characterization. (This goes especially for Special fans, given that the fact that he's Silver's father is actually a pretty big part of his characterization in that universe.) Asking us to swallow it because you're the author is rather unreasonable because, well, you're writing fanfiction. Why should we expect anything else but the characters we're familiar with? Not to mention it'd be rather insulting for someone to see you openly dump their favorite characters' backstories.

Beyond that, there's another problem with dumping backstory. By saying you're going to disregard something as basic as who's related to which character, you're also saying we can expect that we won't be looking at the same characters in terms of personality. This tends to show up most in the way you're describing Silver so far. You have him be sociable (until his mother died) and eager to please his father. ...Except this is pretty much the complete opposite of who Silver is in canon. The Silver most people know is (initially anyway) a cold jerkass who only wants power and has actually outright rejected his father for what he did. Of course, one could argue that in an AU, Silver might see his family in a different light if he wasn't the heir of Team Rocket, but the problem here lies in the fact that he's made someone else's son for no apparent reason. Literally, the only reason you give us for why you didn't just make Silver Giovanni's son is "he looks too evil." Unfortunately, this is a rather superficial reason for recasting Silver, and it actually ends up being contradictory to your message. After all, you're saying that Silver, because he merely looks like a bad guy, has to be a bad guy. There's no option for him to decide against his appearance and be a good guy instead.

Of course, then he's sort of cast aside as what feels like a minor plot point in comparison with the Giovanni-Gold plot. (Side note: If you have to reference pop culture when describing your plot idea, chances are, you'll probably want to think things through a little more. If the reference is meant to be taken seriously, then that could say to a reader that the idea itself isn't particularly creative, and in fact, besides the fact that Giovanni isn't actually being controlled by a higher power -- which was actually most of the point of Vader's character -- the Giovanni-Gold plot is essentially Star Wars with Pokémon. But that's neither here nor there.)

Beyond that, it feels like there's a lot going on in this plot that seems like it has no particular relevance to the overall idea. For example:

1. Blackthorn City. While there's the Dragon Den there... that's just it. It's a town full of dragons. Sure, Viridian City isn't exactly a place where one would immediately expect a brilliant crime lord to put his headquarters, but that's part of the beauty of Giovanni's canon headquarters in Viridian City. It's smack in the middle of a place that's not that difficult to get to, and no one knows it's there. Viridian also means Giovanni has easier access to everything he needs. The League headquarters, other parts of Kanto (including being a hop and a skip from the port of Vermilion City), and so forth. Blackthorn is isolated, yes, but... it's isolated. You can't easily get to other places in Johto from Blackthorn, which means it's more difficult to move troops and supplies from headquarters.

And I know this feels like I'm nitpicking, but really, it comes down to the fact that it feels like there's not much of a reason why canon's getting pitched in favor of your ideas. I mean, there's really no benefit to putting Giovanni in Blackthorn as opposed to Viridian, and changing canon at this point doesn't seem to add anything to the story. While some instances of bending canon can be swallowed by a reader (although it's still a case of Your Mileage May Vary), bending canon for reason that seems significant to a reader just feels unnecessary, and the more you do that, the less your readers will expect you to tell a story about Giovanni and the others instead of handpuppets with their names. Basically, even minor details like these circle back to what I said earlier about canon.

2. Karen. While I get the feeling her presence in the fic is meant to highlight the tense relationship between Silver, Gold, and Lyra, from what I'm getting of your plot sketch, she just ups and leaves, and no one bats an eyelash. Considering you're implying that Silver stopped talking to Lyra and Gold because of his mother's death, including this part about Karen seems rather trivial. I mean, if I'm reading this correctly, he's pretty much blaming Gold and Lyra's families on the death of his mother. (And if he isn't, then it's rather odd that he would suspect foul play but not follow up about it. Who did he suspect? Gold's father?) That seems like a deeper set anger than just some jealousy over who scored his childhood crush's attention.
2a. Actually, if anything, I really do think that the relationship between Gold, Silver, and Lyra should be built up more because it feels like this part isn't quite strong enough yet. We have two reasons why Silver has decided to break off contact with them. Only two. One would think that if he was really close friends with them, he would have a whole list of reasons that pushed him over the edge, rather than just less than a handful.
2b. I'm actually not particularly fond of how Karen got demoted from the highest-ranked Elite Four member to only a gym leader for most of the story and how even as an Elite Four member, she's outshined by someone who should be in the Battle Frontier but is inexplicably on the Elite Four instead. Moreover, she adores Dark-types in ways that define her personality. (i.e. She likes her Pokémon wild and tough, which implies that she herself isn't exactly Whitney's brand of "PINK AND FLORAL EVERYWHERE.")

3. No, seriously, how does Silver connect Gold and Lyra to his mother's death. Gold I can sort of buy because he's Giovanni's son, but it's still rather trite and overly closed-minded to have a character go, "YOU'RE THE SON OF A BAD GUY. THEREFORE, YOU'RE BAD TOO." After all, Gold used to be his close friend. Would Silver really decide to just believe that Gold is evil despite all the years of knowing the guy?
3a. Not to mention where does this plot even go? After that point, the plot sketch never mentions Silver again and passes that subplot off as "one of two problems Gold has to solve." 'Kay? I mean, one would think that a struggle against your former best friend would be sort of important to the point where there would be character growth all over the place. Not to mention it sort of implies that Silver gives up somewhere along the way, which doesn't entirely coincide with the whole "vowing for revenge on his mother's death" part.

4. ...And then Giovanni is suddenly an actual political official instead of just a crime lord, Gold sits down with his family, and no one speaks about the massive amounts of illegal activity again? Oh, I do hope there's actually a decent explanation for all of this within the story because that has the potential for being a massive bout of anticlimax. I mean, with Star Wars, you actually did have battles and explosions to fix everything. This sketch seems to imply that it's going to end abruptly with all of the loose ends solved via deus ex machina.

5. Gritty =/= having your characters be teenagers. I'm sorry, but yeah, a lot of people think dark fics need to age up and break the basics of canon, including making characters start off on journeys at much later ages. Let me tell you, though, that I know a lot of dumbass sixteen-year-olds whose main goal in life besides becoming a star on a reality TV show would probably be winning a Darwin Award, and I know quite a few sane and sensible thirteen-year-olds. Age has nothing to do with intelligence. In fact, if anything, one of the points of the Pokémon canon is that kids are capable of doing amazing things if they push themselves to their full potential. The problem with a lot of people who look down on ten-year-olds and think they can't handle taking care of themselves is that they seem to think that kids are too lazy to think. While it's true that there's a lot of kids who are too lazy to think, you'll find people like that in every age bracket, just as you'll find people who are ready to shoulder responsibility and think things through logically.

Moreover, if you really wanted gritty realism, you probably wouldn't be starring kids who graduated high school early anyway. I mean, if you're writing a story that hinges on political intrigue and friends-turned-enraged-sociopaths, you'd probably be better off looking at the twenty-to-thirty-year-old bracket -- you know, the folks who are actually more likely to get the inner workings of politics while still being liable for snapping on everyone around them, if that even makes sense.

I guess the short of it is I really do find myself turned off by two things. The first thing is it feels like a lot of these canon changes are done for no apparent reason. You were going for some kind of artistic vision, but really, you're better off just saying this is a completely new region with completely new characters. There's absolutely no reason why Palmer can't be a Frontier Brain in Sinnoh, why Giovanni should relocate to Blackthorn instead of Viridian, and why Karen should only be second-fiddle to Palmer. (Oh, the inner feminist in me is going .) Yet, here were are, which might not make a lot of people who actually like these characters a lot particularly happy.

The second thing is the fact that it feels like you have a major idea, but all of the subplots you have to make it potentially interesting fizzle out before they become something significant. While I don't expect you to give me full-blown spoilers or a blow-by-blow recount in a plot sketch, considering you summarize the entire story, it seems rather odd that there's no mention of any significant conflict towards the end that actually gives this fic a feeling of completion, rather than the cut-to-sudden-black kind of ending a la The Sopranos. Besides that, it feels like a lot of the subplots that should really be part of the main plot (like the Silver-Gold conflict) are downplayed in favor of a plot that itself doesn't seem to have resolution.

In short, light-vs-dark is a concept that's not unknown to media, as you've pointed out thanks to waving us towards Star Wars. However, I do have to say that this fic could work (because the fact that you want to work with multiple plot lines is a plus, not to mention the fact that who doesn't love the message of "choose your own destiny"), but the problem is that you'll be encountering a lot of issues in execution. It just feels like more thought was put into the message than there was in how you're proposing to convey it.
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  #249    
Old July 26th, 2011 (12:01 AM). Edited July 26th, 2011 by superjesus.
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superjesus superjesus is offline
 
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Valentine, thanks for the input. Seriously. Sorry for demanding attention. It just kinda felt like my hard work was just passed over. I may have been selfish, but I was still giving ideas for topgun’s story, which is exactly what I would like for my own. I am new to this community, so I may have missed the taboo on providing another writer with my own ideas. I sincerely apologize for that.

I had absolutely no idea that the cannon meant that much to readers, that’s why I simply used known names for the characters I wrote. Like I said, the idea was to get a story going that could eventually become a hack, and I decided to basically start from scratch. I guess I missed the entire point of fanfiction there. My original idea was a hack of heartgold, so I wanted to use existing character models, just spice them up a bit. I am a huge fan of pokemon special, and loved the portrayal of Giovanni. Truly ruthless. I like the idea of using different names, as the current ones were just templates. Thanks for that.

Your rant mode is exactly what I wanted, and has given me much to think about. The love triangles were really added as a last minute pitch to give the characters more depth, but simply stating their existence was practically useless. I plan to expand on that in the dialogue, along with more stuff from star wars and godfather. Giovanni is basically a super crime lord who wants to pass on his empire, but is not satisfied with working behind the scenes, and wants to rule all. ("Join me, and we can rule the galaxy/country/mob-empire as father and son...")

1. Giovanni is unlike good old Darth Vader because he is no one’s lackey. He is the top dog regardless of canon. This fundamental difference makes him in fact more evil than Darth Vader, who is only following orders. I chose blackthorn city because of the name and because it is so isolated. He can easily fly to any location on the map, and does most of his business at his real headquarters in the sylph building. Rather than hiding in plain sight like the original Giovanni, my Giovanni almost owns all of kanto, and is really famous. Blackthorn is his training area and part time job as mayor of a small city. As part of the story, Giovanni would be beaten by his son, then eventually capture darkrai and become the league champion (president). It seems fitting that he appear as a boss at the middle and end of the story.

2. As for Karen, she’s basically a daddy’s girl with lots of power and devotion. I tried to stay away from depicting her like Whitney, who I honestly hate so much that I didn’t even include her in the story. Unlike Whitney, Karen would be tough and commanding, but still have a soft spot for her family. Since Giovanni would be the dark type leader, Karen would take the type closest to dark: ghost. Giovanni is unsatisfied with her taking over for him because they are not blood related, and settles on Gold. She’s outshined because other people are better, especially palmer, who represents light and is the electric type elite four member. During the hack, I was planning to have Karen be a part of the goldenrod radio tower takeover, since she is the corrupted gym leader of that city. She also serves as hesitation for silver, who just can’t see her as evil, but readily turns on Gold and Lyra. This part definitely needs to be expanded upon.

3. As in the games, Silver is a constant menace who eventually turns over a new leaf by the end and forgives Gold for ever suspecting him. He even shows up some days at the pokemon league to offer more training for Gold. The reason he became vengeful was because of an extreme trauma, so accusing everyone he knows is quite normal. The bulk of his hate is centered on Giovanni, but since he is unreachable, is redirected instead at the next best thing: Gold. Maybe I’ll rewrite it so Silver’s mom dies in a car bombing while waving bye to her son. I agree that suspecting Lyra makes no sense. She should be a neutral player.

4. I wanted to make the gym leader position more important, so I decided that gym leaders would also be politicians involved in the running of the region (mayors/senators). This gives Giovanni and his lieutenants a means to gain power. the climax of the story would be the championship battle the second time around, in which Gold stops his father from doing anything extreme, but is unable to kick him out of the oval office. The illegal activity is never spoken of because no one is strong enough to argue with the president, but the characters still sit down together for dinner because they are a family and blood is thicker than water.

5. Good point. I guess the characters could be any age, and it wouldn’t really matter. However, I never intended age to factor into grittiness. The crime infested world is gritty, not the characters. The teenage years seemed appropriate because some people never truly grow out of this stage in their lives. But I refuse to make the characters younger. A ten year old traveling alone fighting ferocious monsters works fine in the anime and manga, but my story requires a less naïve mindset. If anything, they should probably be older. Early twenties will do fine. Thanks for the suggestion.

The reason I posted this story is because I know it is incomplete, and at times, ridiculous. If you would like, I could expand more on any topic at your request. If you would like to help me in creating a hack, that would be awesome.
If you have any stories that need a fresh perspective, I’m your man.

once again, thank you for your advice.
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  #250    
Old July 27th, 2011 (09:03 AM).
Gothitelle. Gothitelle. is offline
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Needs help or advice on this one.

Basically, I'm writing a POV story based a little on Dialga and Palkia's fight and their worlds colliding with one another. However, the difference is that at the end, they become a couple. The thing is that I was going to have them fight fiercely. The way canon did it maybe even in some violent detail. But how can I bring in that moment where one of them says... 'hey, we shouldn't do this'

Like in the canon, I was going to have Palkia transfer a town to another dimension to hide herself from Dialga. When they fight, I was going to also have someone convince them to stop fighting. a Pokemon most likely.

Or I was going to do a backstory on that Dialga and Palkia have met long ago when they had two separate trainers caring for them. Yeah I'm stuck on this plot thing :p
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