Should women be allowed to go topless in public?

[Rich Boy Rob]

Originally Posted by Chibi-chan

1. Everyone should have the right to have sex in public. Just because something is legal doesn't mean everybody does it - we're not suddenly going to be bombarded with people having sex everywhere we go. This thread is proof enough of that - hardly anybody is actually comfortable with sex in public (heck, I can't stand watching it on TV) so it won't be much of a problem. However, just because one person isn't comfortable with it doesn't mean that it should be banned for everyone. Oh hey guys, I'm uncomfortable with realistic violence in video games, let's ban it!

I'd just like to raise a point. Your sarcasm doesn't work, I raise you: Dogging, AKA sex in public. Yes, a legal practise.

Originally Posted by Shake

Clothes are the only things keeping people from being useless blobs. Take most of europe for an example. They basically have no rules so they lay around, naked, probably in their own waste.

Ok, what the hell!?
Have you been to Europe? Most of eastern Europe is seen as the cultural centre of western society and you are telling them, nay, us that we lay around naked in our own waste!?
1. We definitely have rules. Hell, if you live in the USA, we probably have more laws than you do.
2. Where have you been in Europe that everyone who lives there lays around naked.
2a. What is wrong with being aloud to be naked, if the society doesn't disagree with it.
3. Just because, say you were lying nude on a beach so you could get an even tan, does that mean you are stewing in your own filth?

You see this is why most Europeans see Americans as ignorant.

[Shake]

1. HEHEHE is funny to make you mad!
2. How are breasts not sexual? You typically see them while you are having sex.

[Rich Boy Rob]

Originally Posted by Shake

1. HEHEHE is funny to make you mad!
2. How are breasts not sexual? You typically see them while you are having sex.

So? You see shins during sex and they aren't sexual. That's unless you had a very strange fetish.

[ゲンガー]

From the pervy half of my mind: YES YES YES!
From the mature half of my mind:

I think so. I mean, they are just breasts.
It isn't really even sexual if you think of it with the right state of mind.
I mean, if guys can, so can girls. There's no issues there.

[インフェルノの津波]

^ unfortunately, there are issues. So much so we have an argument on our hands, dammit.

I don't understand why breasts should be covered up, and I think that if they are it raises an insecurity in woman who have them(actually, probably those with low testosterone than those with high levels of it, because they feel more of a man than a woman. Ever wondered why Athletes have small breasts? The weight, and the low testosterone with it.), so if they're told to reveal them in an open area, they will immediately refuse, and then use the government and today's society as a cop-out. But in reality, they feel insecure about showing them because of what most of us have done to tell to cover up because it's bad.

If you don't believe, then please answer this: Why is Yellow & Co. making such a big stink about it? Because, it's what they've been taught to say.

[Forever]

Originally Posted by インフェルノの津波

so if they're told to reveal them in an open area, they will immediately refuse, and then use the government and today's society as a cop-out.

I don't plan on taking part in this, but I believe this thread is about having the option to reveal their breasts, rather than being told to do so.

[ReyRey-Pyon]

What about a males chest
you will see them having sex. many women find a males chest very sexy.
iirc their nipples are sensitive as well.
Just sayin o3o

womans produces milk for a baby. so she can breastfeed
an act that is in no way sexual in nature. eating isn't sexual, i mean, unless you're into that sort of thing n_~

the thread isn't saying women should start prancing around half naked.
its just if a girl wanted to take off her top. she could.
other countries. even in some states I think, its alowed for a girl to be topless
its not like you see boobies around every corner o3o

[PkMnTrainer Yellow]

Originally Posted by ReyRey-Pyon

What about a males chest
you will see them having sex. many women find a males chest very sexy.
iirc their nipples are sensitive as well.
Just sayin o3o

womans produces milk for a baby. so she can breastfeed
an act that is in no way sexual in nature. eating isn't sexual, i mean, unless you're into that sort of thing n_~

the thread isn't saying women should start prancing around half naked.
its just if a girl wanted to take off her top. she could.
other countries. even in some states I think, its alowed for a girl to be topless
its not like you see boobies around every corner o3o

If you read the topic before posting you'd see other people made the argument and had it defeated...

Originally Posted by PkMnTrainer Yellow

I'm saddened by the number of responses that don't read where the topic is at =< It seems to be one of the less pleasurable part of participating in debate threads.

Originally Posted by FreakyLocz14

No not fully nude, just topless.

Full Upper Nudity = Topless

Originally Posted by インフェルノの津波

^ unfortunately, there are issues. So much so we have an argument on our hands, dammit.

I don't understand why breasts should be covered up, and I think that if they are it raises an insecurity in woman who have them(actually, probably those with low testosterone than those with high levels of it, because they feel more of a man than a woman. Ever wondered why Athletes have small breasts? The weight, and the low testosterone with it.), so if they're told to reveal them in an open area, they will immediately refuse, and then use the government and today's society as a cop-out. But in reality, they feel insecure about showing them because of what most of us have done to tell to cover up because it's bad.

If you don't believe, then please answer this: Why is Yellow & Co. making such a big stink about it? Because, it's what they've been taught to say.

Your counter culture attitude raises pessimistic thoughts. This is the way the world is. We have a civilized culture, and like it. If you want us to be animals by destroying things like morals and culture that's not only my problem but everyone else's.

I could replace this argument with a man with a small thing, and it'd be the exact same thing. You act as if boobs are not sexual, which they simply are as dictated by culture.

Originally Posted by Eliminator Jr.

Oh please don't say you're one of those people who believe women are more emotionally "deep" than men are or whatever..

I'm pretty sure nothing was said that implied that ._.

Originally Posted by Rich Boy Rob

I'd just like to raise a point. Your sarcasm doesn't work,

That wasn't sarcasm. That was satire.

[poopnoodle]

hi i just woke up if i say something absurd that is my excuse

Originally Posted by twocows

Your argument is based upon a naturalistic fallacy. Just because something is natural does not mean it is right, or in this case, proper. It is an established cultural norm that nudity is unacceptable. And while cultures may be constantly changing, ours has not changed to the point where this is no longer true.

What is normal in other cultures has no bearing on what is normal in ours. I could lecture all day on why I think our culture is flawed and certain things need to be changed, but all of that is irrelevant to my point, as are my personal feelings on the matter. My point is that, given the way our culture currently is, the given proposition is obscene and should not (and would not) be tolerated. It would be, at the very least, distracting to people who are used to a certain level of decency.

i understand where you're coming from, and i understand that society's mindset won't change anytime soon.

i've adapted to the idea that breasts are perfectly natural, and i do have a pair myself, and as silly as it sounds i actually DO feel a bit oppressed and inconvenienced. also, i think those who have presented agreeing viewpoints to mine in this thread are contributing to progression in culture. you say culture is constantly changing, but it's in debates like these that people become open to change and make it happen, even if it takes a whole century for change to take place.

As for my personal feelings on the matter (which, again, are irrelevant to my argument), I think that the form and function of much of the human body is disgusting. I think our society has it right in that people are free to do what they want in private but must conform to a certain standard of decency in public. This is the way I believe it should be.

(let me note that this is also irrelevant to my argument and i'm merely intending for a discussion to come out of this rather than a debate) i can relate in the fact that at one point i found most of nature strange and repulsive, including the entire human body and the bodies of other animals. since then i've accepted and adapted my mind to their existence and decided that bodies are actually fascinating and beautiful. i think it's a shame that our culture doesn't encourage us to pride ourselves physically.

[インフェルノの津波]

Just a note, I don't use quotes.

Another one, for those of you asking why the hell am I going along with this load of bullcrap is because I cannot stand to lose at arguments. Physical fighting, fine. Family drama, no problem. But a person with different ideals than mine, which would be fine in any other case, but Yellow is being a bit aggressive her opinions, which I find offensive and just plain rude, and so I am going to do this day and night until this thread is locked, and then I'll take it to VMs/PMs. Just hope she doesn't give up, that'll spoil my adrenaline rush.

You call it civilized, remember that. Remember the people who came up with that ideal, remember that those same people who came up with that word also called those "uncivilized" barbarians. Remember, that there are other cultures and people who will tell you exactly what civilized in your terms means, and remember this:

We came up with the berating term "Third World Country", a fancy way of saying uncivilized, aka barbarians, and coincidently the same exactly people that are "third world" are the ones who are also not wearing a bra.

I can already see where this is going....

[FreakyLocz14]

I know this is off-topic but it should be said:
-First World: A country that was allied with the United States and NATO during the Cold War
-Second World: A country that was allied with the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact during the Cold War
-Third World: A country that didn't take a side

[PkMnTrainer Yellow]

Originally Posted by インフェルノの津波

Another one, for those of you asking why the hell am I going along with this load of bullcrap is because I cannot stand to lose at arguments. Physical fighting, fine. Family drama, no problem. But a person with different ideals than mine, which would be fine in any other case, but Yellow is being a bit aggressive her opinions, which I find offensive and just plain rude, and so I am going to do this day and night until this thread is locked, and then I'll take it to VMs/PMs. Just hope she doesn't give up, that'll spoil my adrenaline rush.

...

Originally Posted by インフェルノの津波

We came up with the berating term "Third World Country", a fancy way of saying uncivilized, aka barbarians, and coincidently the same exactly people that are "third world" are the ones who are also not wearing a bra.

I can already see where this is going....

Third World Country doesn't mean that, at all. Furthermore, I'm getting libertarian socialist vibes from you.

[インフェルノの津波]

Yeah, but the way I've heard most people say it is berating. Actually, I made a mistake. My bad.(but I never erase them, unless I absolutely hate it)

Y'know, Yellow, a man with a small penis is not the same as breasts.(I think people should be nude if they want, but that's not the point). And please call it a penis.

#1, Penis's, in this sense I sort of get, I mean a penis is entirely different situation. In fact, penis's more or less are actually recommended to be covered up, because you wouldn't want your only sex organ/liquid waste remover to be lost, right?

#2. A man with a small penis is completely off topic from this. And men can simply enlarge it(I know how, read up on it).

#3. Morals and culture? What. the. hell. Yeah, I know full well this is Puritan land, but if you look at other countries, breasts have almost never have been covered. Somewhere along the line, probably a sexist priest, told woman to cover up, cause it'll make men lust for them, possibly rape them.

#4. Just realized something. The Bible. Damn, I forgot about that book. Now I understand why woman cover-up, cause God made them into sexual organs, after the whole apple scenario, and that's how we got private parts. Though, only Romans and others followed this, the other people didn't give a flying **** about them til later.

Hold on, let me get some things straight...

Well, I'm not that. My friends call me a defiant, cause I hate America and the other civilized countries so much.

[Pokeyomom]

Originally Posted by twocows

Your argument is based upon a naturalistic fallacy. Just because something is natural does not mean it is right, or in this case, proper. It is an established cultural norm that nudity is unacceptable. And while cultures may be constantly changing, ours has not changed to the point where this is no longer true.

What is normal in other cultures has no bearing on what is normal in ours. I could lecture all day on why I think our culture is flawed and certain things need to be changed, but all of that is irrelevant to my point, as are my personal feelings on the matter. My point is that, given the way our culture currently is, the given proposition is obscene and should not (and would not) be tolerated. It would be, at the very least, distracting to people who are used to a certain level of decency.

As for my personal feelings on the matter (which, again, are irrelevant to my argument), I think that the form and function of much of the human body is disgusting. I think our society has it right in that people are free to do what they want in private but must conform to a certain standard of decency in public. This is the way I believe it should be.

Thanks Twocows. Your points make sense. Cultural paradigms can shift fast. I'm not saying that we are going to see topless women because of a thread here lol, but if indeed society got sick of it's own limiting standards, then I believe this change could become real. Some societal norms are healthy, but I really think this one is an odd concoction (just like our liscense to pollute the earth, force rigid gender roles upon people, etc)

Hopefully we eventually evolve to the point where we don't view our own bodies as digusting, or as mechanisms saturated in a sexuality that present inherent danger to societies at large.

Thanks again for your intelligent thoughts.

[PkMnTrainer Yellow]

Originally Posted by インフェルノの津波

Y'know, Yellow, a man with a small penis is not the same as breasts.(I think people should be nude if they want, but that's not the point). And please call it a penis.

I am comfortable speaking this way and would appreciate it if you could resist forcing your views on me. After all, I don't ask you to censor your words.

Originally Posted by インフェルノの津波

#1, Penis's, in this sense I sort of get, I mean a penis is entirely different situation. In fact, penis's more or less are actually recommended to be covered up, because you wouldn't want your only sex organ/liquid waste remover to be lost, right?

No, it's not. They're both private, sexual organs and I hardly think clothes were invented to protect the male's from being...removed?

Originally Posted by インフェルノの津波

#2. A man with a small penis is completely off topic from this. And men can simply enlarge it(I know how, read up on it).

Aah, but it's very on topic! See, you just proved my point. By saying one can simply enlarge it, that also applies to breasts. And thus, it's the same deal.

Originally Posted by インフェルノの津波

#3. Morals and culture? What. the. hell. Yeah, I know full well this is Puritan land, but if you look at other countries, breasts have almost never have been covered. Somewhere along the line, probably a sexist priest, told woman to cover up, cause it'll make men lust for them, possibly rape them.

That makes no sense. Furthermore, we are not other countries and don't want to be other countries. We take pride in our culture and don't want anyone else's.

Originally Posted by インフェルノの津波

#4. Just realized something. The Bible. Damn, I forgot about that book. Now I understand why woman cover-up, cause God made them into sexual organs, after the whole apple scenario, and that's how we got private parts. Though, only Romans and others followed this, the other people didn't give a flying **** about them til later.

I don't believe you know what religion I am, nor other people supporting my views. In fact I don't read the bible. Perhaps you should drop the hating on religion.

[インフェルノの津波]

I didn't say that's why clothes were invented. I said that's why they were covered up.

I picked up the bible reference because England, Australia, and America are all colonies from the bible, or the Pope for better reference. And Europe also.

Look, my brain, my friends, my own fricking mind is telling me to let it go already, it's just some person dammit.

So yeah, whatever. If you think woman's breasts should be covered up, fine, whatever.

One more thing, if you call a specific thing something else chances are they won't understand you. That's why I asked you to call it a penis, not for my benefit, but for the other people you talk to and call things(not penis')other than what they are usually called, to prevent confusion.

So yeah, I'm off to read manga and watch TV. Bye~

[FreakyLocz14]

How are breasts a sex organ? Last I check you cannot impreganate a woman via her breasts. The penis and vagina covered because they are sex organs that are used in human reproduction.

[Chibi-chan]

Ok. Now we're getting offtopic. To be honest, I think we've talked all we can about sex, culture, and boobs. I've been getting complaints about this thread for the past week and to be honest, this thread is getting nowhere and...it's just weird. Sorry, it is. See above post.

Locked