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  #1    
Old April 14th, 2016 (4:25 AM).
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So I've just had an idea about something that I've discussed with a few people and I wanted to post it here to gather thoughts on the general thing.

How do you guys feel about a community hack?

Essentially the idea is to make a hack that users can submit their ideas, maps, music and more to. Something that we can grow together as a community and showcase on our media platforms. I know ideas like this have been executed in the past and have failed, but with all the resources around the community now I think it's very plausible.

We could use PC's media outlets to showcase the hacks growth and when it's finished we could play it on PC's YouTube channel. In the past there DEFINITELY wasn't any official outreach like this to promote hacks and get people onboard with making a hack. With the advances we've made in expanding beyond the forums I think this could be an incredibly popular thing!

Most of the hacks around PC are done solo so it'd be incredibly refreshing to see a team effort, like what we have with Pokémon Vega. Something that truly represents the community we have here.

Share your thoughts!
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Old April 14th, 2016 (5:05 AM).
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I like this idea, provided the hack in question is gen 1, 2, or 3 based. I could do ideas for features, but haven't attempted to learn hacking yet, though it is something I'm tempted to look into.

I think the hardest part would be agreeing on a storyline.
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Old April 14th, 2016 (7:30 AM).
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I agree with your points Achromatic. I too think it'd be an excellent community activity and I think that many people who haven't got time to make a hack all by themselves would find this to be a fantastic chance to try something in collaboration. I think many people believe that hacking in teams or a community hack is a failed concept due to past experiences, but those failures can mostly be attributed to other reasons.

Previously when the community hack idea was introduced, we had a few nay-sayers but mostly everyone was onboard. It started off strong, with a dedicated group for story, mapping, scripting, ASM, music and some other misc things. The idea was in each group there'd be a section leader, in which the leader would take charge and make sure their particular section was running smoothly. At the very top we had the project leader who would oversee the entire project. Conceptually it looked like a fantastic system in which senior members with great expertise were able to help out their juniors in the section of their specialization. Unfortunately, the "Project leader" at the time, Darthatron had gone suddenly inactive during the early development stages for the project and it kinda died out. It was impossible for the project to continue without the project leader, and I think from there most people assume that community hacks would never work. It's important to recognize that there were people willing to contribute and there was some good amount of interest. No one really wanted to take the leadership role in the project and that caused it's downfall.

Later, the community attempted the "Hack-off" event in which groups of 5-6 people would get together and make a hack until the first gym. Again, this looked conceptually great. We had newer members and experienced members all come together to try this competition. Sadly, after the groups were settled on, the motivation on some members just dwiddled out/they got busy/they didn't know enough to contribute and you ended up having groups of 5-6 people in which one or two people were making the entire project. As someone who doesn't enjoy mapping or scripting, this was not a pleasant experience.

I've participated in two Hack-Offs so far, and each one had this syndrome. I think the core issue was apparent that people lacked motivation to work on areas of the hack that was outside their preferred area of hacking. I for example, detest scripting, tile inserting, mapping and all of that stuff because I think it's boring and peasant work. Others love mapping but hate scripting, ect. The result being that, we have a group of hackers who are given a task in which they have to work on the areas of the hack which they don't want to do because they have to cover for their inactive team members. Yep, down hill it'd go.

So the important thing to take from these two failures of community-esque hacking events is that:

A) A solid leadership role is a necessity. Someone needs to oversee the project.

B) Don't make generalized roles for people. So instead of just mapper, maybe we can narrow it down to city mapper and route mapper. Similarly for Scripting narrow it down to skill levels, don't make the advance scripters do silly sign posts and items on the floor unless they want to.

C) Don't segregate the groups. As a designated mapper, someone should be able to contribute a script or provide input on a key event. If they want to.

D) Members who sign up and contribute should be awarded (maybe a shiny emblem & shout out. Obviously appearing in the ending credits).

Finally, I think that the story aspect of the hack should be worked on together. Perhaps we can involve the writing subforum on PC to help us out if we need. I realize you are trying to gauge interest with the post and I'm posting some advice regarding management, but I got carried away. But, yes, I'd be interested in helping and I hope others would be interested as well.
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Old April 14th, 2016 (7:36 AM).
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I'd love to see a community hack work; I'd definitely put myself forward for a management role in doing such as well.
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Old April 14th, 2016 (7:49 AM).
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I like the idea, count me in.
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Old April 14th, 2016 (8:09 AM). Edited April 14th, 2016 by Crizzle.
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If you can get a committed group of people to work on a hack like the spanish japanese hackers who made Vega did, you can make something far better than most individual hacks.
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Old April 14th, 2016 (8:24 AM).
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This is an awesome idea A great way to promote PC and it's users :3
It should be an annual thing if this gets greenlit.
After all, two heads are better than one :D

I'm willing to help out
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Old April 14th, 2016 (10:31 AM).
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After looking through the tutorials for getting into ROM hacking, I MIGHT be able to do some spriting. I've done some spriting for a browser-based racing game called "GTRacer" for fun. The admins and moderators loved my sprites so much they're going to come out in a future release of the game. But this was all incredibly basic, so take it with a grain of salt. It would take me an average of 3-5 hours per sprite to get it to look like the real life car I wanted it to be.
Example is the first sprite I did for them, a Pontiac Fiero, and yes, the colors apart from the background tell the game which body parts to show in game.
fiero project.png
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Old April 14th, 2016 (11:10 AM).
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What I imagine is that there would be a few phases to this:

Phase 1: Users can apply to be on the main team, Hack Directors review the applications.
Phase 2: Once the main team is decided, users can begin to submit their ideas for character designs, map designs, storyline ect.
Phase 3: Voting can be done on which ideas/concepts the community likes the most and then the main team will work them into the hack.

To prevent a clash of styles (for example my mapping style could be radically different from hashtag's, so they wouldn't fit together in a hack) I think the actual team doing the programming would be somewhat small so they could easily coordinate and keep things consistent. But everything would be community decided and suggested by the community.
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Old April 14th, 2016 (11:30 AM).
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Great idea! This idea gives me a bit of a World of PC vibe. :)

As someone who initially joined for ROM hacking but had to cut down his project because of limited time (and I'm a horrible spriter), I find it awesome to see this happen and I'd love to help out with this. I must admit though that I never got very far and like a year has passed since I touched a ROM besides a patch-and-play, but I might be able to help out with mapping, basic scripting and story/dialogues.

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Originally Posted by Achromatic View Post
To prevent a clash of styles (for example my mapping style could be radically different from hashtag's, so they wouldn't fit together in a hack) I think the actual team doing the programming would be somewhat small so they could easily coordinate and keep things consistent. But everything would be community decided and suggested by the community.
Personally, I don't think styles clash that easily. Each route or town has its own unique atmosphere anyway, so I don't think it's too much of a problem to have multiple people working on that. In case of for example two grassland routes next to each other, it does make sense for them to be designed by the same person.
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Old April 14th, 2016 (11:44 AM).
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Nice idea! I'll happily join
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Old April 14th, 2016 (12:12 PM).
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I don't know how I feel about Phase 1. I understand the quality control of the entire thing, in the sense that you want it to not have poorly implemented parts. I'm concerned that an application process may intimidate some people who are otherwise sufficient applicants. That said, this is sort of what we did last time we had a community hack. Maybe it's fine, I don't know. I would like the story and such to be open for everyone though.

Don't worry about the small programming team, that'll probably end up being very small anyways. Few of us are practiced in GBA programming. :D:D:D
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Old April 14th, 2016 (12:25 PM).
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I don't know how I feel about Phase 1. I understand the quality control of the entire thing, in the sense that you want it to not have poorly implemented parts. I'm concerned that an application process may intimidate some people who are otherwise sufficient applicants. That said, this is sort of what we did last time we had a community hack. Maybe it's fine, I don't know. I would like the story and such to be open for everyone though.

Don't worry about the small programming team, that'll probably end up being very small anyways. Few of us are practiced in GBA programming. :D:D:D
I think what they mean is the the actual hacking team would be small (1 mapper, 1 scripter, 1 spriter, etc) but that the community will contribute by pitching in like map designs, sprites, or story elements. These ideas would be voted upon, and then if passed, would be implemented by the hacking team. Not so much a hack made by the community, but a hack driven by the community.

Either way I think the idea is interesting and would definitely keep up and participate when I can.
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Old April 14th, 2016 (1:13 PM).
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Count me in as a scripter. I also have a few pretty decent maps from my old hacks I could donate.
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Old April 14th, 2016 (6:59 PM). Edited April 14th, 2016 by chrunch.
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You could call me cynical but I don't think a community hack will ever work. It's not just a coincidence that nearly every completed hack has been mainly a solo effort (even though back when we had the team discussions board there were hundreds if not thousands of teams formed). Sure the solo hackers would have had some people to help out but that's different from a full on team hack. I hack because I enjoy creating my own world. I can change, add or remove things on a whim. If the creative control was taken away from me and I only had one job to do, I wouldn't enjoy it. I definitely wouldn't stick around for the long term. This is why people vanish, not because suddenly everyone "got busy" or didn't have time.

Not that I wouldn't be interested in seeing a community hack come intro fruition, just a fair warning to anyone looking to get involved: don't be surprised when the project crashes and burns, taking with it all your hard work. It's been tried before (and not just on PC), same result every time. It might start off strong but in the end they all get abandoned.
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Old April 14th, 2016 (9:36 PM).
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I think that a community hack is great in concept, and if it were to be into motion I'd definitely be interested in participating.

Having participated in the Hack Off attempt and pretty much seeing the team fall apart (partially due to my own lack of effort), I worry about whether there will be enough continued effort to actually make the hack go anywhere beyond the planning stages.
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Old April 14th, 2016 (10:16 PM). Edited April 14th, 2016 by miksy91.
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There where already good points from chrunch above, but I came up with a few more on why it would be difficult to make a good hack in a team with less and more experienced members in it.

The biggest problem I see here immediately is, how people are going to work on the same hack?

If only one person works with the hack at the time, everyone else has to wait for that person to finish whatever (s)he is working on. In this case, the hacking would be slow, and if someone else felt like doing something while it's not his/her "turn", (s)he simply could not. Not gonna work.

If many people work on features by editing a rom file at the same time and use dynamic offsets for new data, the new features will most likely be written in the same rom areas. What if everyone used ips patches to release the new features they have come up with? The ips patches would be sent to some "product owner" who would use some kind of a tool, for example IPS Peek, to see what the ips files do. If the product owner notices that an ips file sent to him/her writes data into a place in the rom where an ips file given by someone else already wrote data to, the owner would hack the ips file to write that data elsewhere where there is free space in the rom file, and then apply the patch. This would work up to some point.

Then again, what if everyone in the team would be given address spaces (for example, 0x1A0000 - 0x1AFFFF) where all the new data they come up with would be written to? This would remove the need to hack the patch files as the files wouldn't write data in same address spaces. However, this would require more information from everyone contributing on the hack as everybody has to have rom hacking knowledge up to some point.

What if the hack was based on a disassembly then? Everyone in the team would have a Github account and there would be a repository for the hack. The contributions by team members would be done in branches and some product owner or practically anyone, who has enough knowledge in using git and rom hacking, could merge those contributions branches to "master" branch when they're done and the contributions indeed work and are bug-free. This would probably be the most efficient way to work on a community hack as the amount of team members could vary during the production as well. Besides, it would allow everyone to keep track of progress of each team member. Furthermore, the more experienced hackers could track possible bugs made by less experienced hackers more easily this way.
But once again, quite a lot of background information from the people working on the hack would be required. Besides, if the hack was be based on a gen III pokemon game, there might not be a complete disassembly to even work with (pokemon red and crystal have ones).

So basically to make a community hack of good quality, the latter two might be the best options for doing so where using a repository of a disassembly would still be a much better one. But people who wanted to contribute would really have to take the effort in learning how to help efficiently so that no one would have to waste time doing things that shouldn't have to be paid attention into (for example that data overwriting issue with IPS files I mentioned there). Even so to make a hack such as this work, there should be more than one "all-around" person in the team who could fix any kinds of issues the team members run into if one just happens to "disappear" all of a sudden.
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Old April 15th, 2016 (5:29 AM).
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Quote:
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You could call me cynical but I don't think a community hack will ever work. It's not just a coincidence that nearly every completed hack has been mainly a solo effort (even though back when we had the team discussions board there were hundreds if not thousands of teams formed). Sure the solo hackers would have had some people to help out but that's different from a full on team hack.
Well, to be fair the hackers gathering in the team forums were all pretty much just starting out. I think that's what mainly leads to the failures of hacks that came out of that forum. They don't know how to script yet, so their hacks kind of die. See Pokemon Ashe's Adventures. It looked full of motivation, and there were lots of folks pitching into the project. It ended up sort of dying off because the people seeing it through and the people contributing, didn't know how to hack.

Quote:
I hack because I enjoy creating my own world. I can change, add or remove things on a whim. If the creative control was taken away from me and I only had one job to do, I wouldn't enjoy it. I definitely wouldn't stick around for the long term. This is why people vanish, not because suddenly everyone "got busy" or didn't have time.
This is an interesting point. I wonder how many people share your sentiment, because personally I only like certain parts of hacking, and would rather have someone else do other parts. Hence why I like working in teams, it allows me to do what I like to do, while avoiding parts I dislike. AFAIK Achromatic plans to have anyone be able to contribute ideas for voting, so perhaps the feeling of being able to pitch in ideas would be a nice compromise for people who enjoy world building.


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Originally Posted by miksy91 View Post
There where already good points from chrunch above, but I came up with a few more on why it would be difficult to make a good hack in a team with less and more experienced members in it.

The biggest problem I see here immediately is, how people are going to work on the same hack?

If only one person works with the hack at the time, everyone else has to wait for that person to finish whatever (s)he is working on. In this case, the hacking would be slow, and if someone else felt like doing something while it's not his/her "turn", (s)he simply could not. Not gonna work.
Well, the only issue is if people are working on the same thing at the same time, which is unlikely. For example, if multiple people are making scripts for events, but the events are all different or for different people, then there would be no conflict. It doesn't really make sense that two people are making a script for the same person or two people are mapping the same map. There's no real point of making and sending a patch when you can send over the well-tested and uncompiled script. These scripts are able to be compiled into the ROM dynamically, so there'd be no interference. Same for maps, you can just send the .MAP file instead of writing to the main ROM directly.

As for feature development, myself and a few others would use github, but ingeneral most feature hacks are able to be compiled/assembled dynamically. You'd only have to worry about two hacks sharing the same hook, which is unlikely if you're working on two different things. A good log of where certain hooks are placed is necessary, but it's not something that'd make working in a group impossible. C programs and ASM programs are no issue, neither are maps and scripts. So that leaves editing data tables like Pokemon tables, adding new cries and such (that'd require ROM's free space to be arranged ahead of time, but I don't see this as a problem because it can be mathematically calculated to guarantee no conflicts).

Quote:
If many people work on features by editing a rom file at the same time and use dynamic offsets for new data, the new features will most likely be written in the same rom areas. What if everyone used ips patches to release the new features they have come up with? The ips patches would be sent to some "product owner" who would use some kind of a tool, for example IPS Peek, to see what the ips files do. If the product owner notices that an ips file sent to him/her writes data into a place in the rom where an ips file given by someone else already wrote data to, the owner would hack the ips file to write that data elsewhere where there is free space in the rom file, and then apply the patch. This would work up to some point.
So you just send the uncompiled version, and let one person compile it. Compiling a script, inserting a map, ect, is only slightly more effort than applying a patch, and definitely less effort than hacking the IPS file.

Quote:
Then again, what if everyone in the team would be given address spaces (for example, 0x1A0000 - 0x1AFFFF) where all the new data they come up with would be written to? This would remove the need to hack the patch files as the files wouldn't write data in same address spaces. However, this would require more information from everyone contributing on the hack as everybody has to have rom hacking knowledge up to some point.
This arrangement of allocating ROM space would only be necissary for people who are working on adding or expanding ROM tables. To be fair, these people are already going to be working with the ROM in a low level, so it'd be expected for them to understand basic hex editor stuff.

Quote:
What if the hack was based on a disassembly then? Everyone in the team would have a Github account and there would be a repository for the hack. The contributions by team members would be done in branches and some product owner or practically anyone, who has enough knowledge in using git and rom hacking, could merge those contributions branches to "master" branch when they're done and the contributions indeed work and are bug-free. This would probably be the most efficient way to work on a community hack as the amount of team members could vary during the production as well. Besides, it would allow everyone to keep track of progress of each team member. Furthermore, the more experienced hackers could track possible bugs made by less experienced hackers more easily this way.
But once again, quite a lot of background information from the people working on the hack would be required. Besides, if the hack was be based on a gen III pokemon game, there might not be a complete disassembly to even work with (pokemon red and crystal have ones).
This would be ideal. Having a disassembly would eliminate most potential problems, but I forsee one big issue with this. Firstly, there is no complete disassembly for gen III games currently available, and thus the game would need to be in an earlier generation. I'm unsure how many hackers who have who are fluent with the Z80, and would be interested in making an earlier generation game. I'd be a shame to not involve a large portion of the community base inorder to use a disassembly.

In general, I don't see working together on a ROM hack to be detrimental (from personal experience). I've worked on features/scripts for hacks where the hacker was still hacking. It's a matter of sending the uncompiled, yet tested, code rather than sending the code already compiled. We've seen team hacks work out, from Vega, Gaia, Sienna and others. I feel like community hack failures can be attributed to other factors, such as poor organisation, lack of leadership, lack of planning and simply a lack of skill.

Lets give it a chance, I have confidence that this time leadership won't be an issue. The issue boils down to general interest, if there's interest/motivation it can be made to work :)
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  #19    
Old April 15th, 2016 (1:29 PM). Edited April 15th, 2016 by miksy91.
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Stuff...
I didn't really think about the fact that most gen III editors actually allow you to save the data you write in some format, and open the saved data properly for compiling it in the rom. I haven't been doing that at all myself simply because I'm working on a hack alone. Of course, sometimes it would have been convenient to save several scripts as files so that I could have had documentation behind what happens in them.

But yeah - you're right that it would indeed be possible to just compile all the data in those saved files by team members into the "base" rom file. A similar thing could be done with branches in Github which leads into the fact that if a team project was made based on a rom file, it would be convenient if everyone used Github. They could use branches for the stuff implement, and at the end of the branch, just provide files of everything they did and make a pull request. Someone could check everything works alright and just compile the files in the base rom. Yeah - generally the same thing as without Github but everyone in team could keep track of what's going on. And if a team for a hack was made, learning how to install git and using it for a project of this kind shouldn't be too much asked for anyone contributing on the hack.

But best of luck to the hack if you guys start working on something And I guess you're right there that it could indeed work out if done correctly unless team members run into issues with motivation. What would be the best way to prevent that? I don't know if this is a good idea or not because it could make team members feel they "have to" work on something, but maybe some ideas to rom hack development could be borrowed from "Scrum" or a similar project development theme.
If everyone in team participated in "daily meetings" (not literally daily but every now and then) in Skype or Facebook for instance, by at least mentioning, what they did the last time and what they're planning to finish next, everyone in team would know what everyone else is working on at the time and have some kind of an idea, how the hack is progressing. This might be a turnoff in motivation due to the "have to" aspect, or possibly something that would get the team members more excited to keep working on the hack if everyone is motivated enough and hears news about other team members often through chat.
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Old April 16th, 2016 (5:53 AM).
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PC has a new feature (that's currently The Underground exclusive) called Groups. It allows users to make a group and discuss stuff with members of that group only, hence making coordination a lot easier with certain teams. I think this could work very well for a group hack as it's directly on the forum where everyone would be to begin with.

I'm not sure whether they'd wanna add this here as it's kinda an exclusive thing for The Underground right now, but maybe!
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  #21    
Old April 16th, 2016 (11:16 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Youmu View Post
I think that a community hack is great in concept, and if it were to be into motion I'd definitely be interested in participating.

Having participated in the Hack Off attempt and pretty much seeing the team fall apart (partially due to my own lack of effort), I worry about whether there will be enough continued effort to actually make the hack go anywhere beyond the planning stages.
I'm still salty about that hack off.
  #22    
Old April 16th, 2016 (1:30 PM).
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Deokishisu Deokishisu is offline
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I'm probably not alone in thinking, "not this again," with the community hacks. Here's how it always goes down:

1. People who know what they're doing (either generally or in specific areas) are enthusiastic and join in. These people are divided either into different teams (spreading out the capable and creating more of a workload on individual capable people), or are assigned to things that they're less apt at because of skill overlap in the easier areas or skill drain when people lose interest. These people want to join in with similarly capable people to make something of quality, not scrape the bottom and teach noobies how to hack (there are times and places to teach, but a community passion project is not one of those places).

2. People who don't know what they're doing slow everyone else down by needing constant correction and help because they won't learn things on their own. The implementations they come up with, while probably okay for their skill level, are almost universally awful and time consuming to bring up to a quality level. The team is often better off just having a capable person quickly redo it from scratch than improve on what whoever already came up with. Those who are not just leechers and genuinely try to learn are more welcome, but just as unhelpful. They either become discouraged and quit or are demanding/overly-sensitive about their work and hurt overall morale. These people are generally the hardest for the leaders of whatever project to deal with, as they really do try it's just that they're not good enough yet to produce anything but crap. No matter how they or their work is handled, it's a lose-lose for the overall group.

3. The true leechers who don't know anything about hacking but will spew out a hundred thousand objectively terrible ideas and slow down the "democratic process" of deciding what to do, which delays and draws out all other work. If their ideas are flat-out rejected, they often scream about unfairness or elitism or brigades created against them. It's not elitist to not want 16 Rivals, a storyline focusing on all the legendaries destroying the world and the player being an edgy teenager that talks and single-handedly pieces it back together, and starting with Lugia and Mega-Charizard Y. These are also the guys that are like, "hai, i can map in advance map or i can script with advance text. heres a example" and it's literally Littleroot Town mapped on Sapphire because it was their favorite with a tree in the middle and the borders screwed up. Bonus points if there are default tileset 0 houses with no windows. These people tend to be the loudest and most sensitive, and will try to drag the entire project to the bottom with them if they don't freak out and flat-out leave first.

Now, I'm not saying that people in group 2 and possibly some in group 3 don't belong in the community at large or that they don't deserve a helping hand from the rest of us, but they certainly shouldn't be in a group project that strives to make quality content at some semblance of a decent pace. But once you eliminate those two groups from consideration, you are left with anywhere from a dozen to twenty-five/maybe thirty people who are good enough to contribute without slowing the entire process down. And that's not to say the people in this group would be easy to work with either. Many aren't active enough to regularly contribute. Others have clear difficulty accepting criticism and working with others. I can think of one or two who are manipulative enough to form wedges in the dev group if they're disagreed with. A few are overly dramatic and would quit the first time they perceive any sort of personal slight, real or imagined, against them. I'd hazard to guess that 80% of them (myself included here) would be very reluctant to give up much creative control to the group, especially with things they may disagree with. These are all great hackers, and pretty cool people, but they work best solo or with two or three temporary helpers that share their vision. And we haven't even gotten to the people who simply would not be interested in doing something like this.

Dev teams collaborating on a project together work well because there is a clear hierarchy, and because they are getting paid. We obviously don't get paid, and creating some sort of hierarchy would be pretty counterproductive in our case and unenforceable. If you disagree with the story director or the lead animator, you either put up with it or lose your job at significant personal cost. In this scenario, you are likely easily replaced. If you disagree with the community hack's project leader (how would we even fairly decide who this is?), you put up with it or you stop contributing at no personal cost to yourself. In this scenario, you will most likely put a significant dent in the group from your absence, murder morale on your way out, and severely weaken any authority the project leader is perceived to have. You've also neutered the project leader, who now has to tip-toe around things to prevent more talent loss. This is how burnout happens in projects like this.

So now we're left with a small handful of people who are both willing to do this and capable, and would also work well together. At that point, our best option is to abandon the obviously doomed community hack project and just turn them into a hack team and watch them poop rainbows out of A-Map and XSE that the rest of us can enjoy. These guys are the dream team. These are the guys who, together, will make stuff that gets PC a cease-and-desist from Game Freak.

Trimming the fat, so to speak, is the only way the community project would work in my view. And you'd have to trim so much to guarantee success that I don't think trying to organize something like this will turn out well. If a bunch of capable people want to get together and do something like this on their own, that's one thing (Invite me please, I want to learn and I can map better than Game Freak can and script well and can bring snacks). But this? As it is right now and has been in the past? I honestly don't think that there's much of a chance at success. But fortunately at least, it's not for lack of trying.
  #23    
Old April 16th, 2016 (1:53 PM).
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Christos Christos is offline
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I think a community driven hack would be really fun. Deciding on the story, features, region/map specifics and the like as a community as well as allowing members to contribute with their ideas, dialogue and content should be interesting.

The actual implementation, however, should only be done by a few people. Trying to organise a big group of members, including inexperienced ones, would be hard to pull off and it's probably not going to work out in the end anyway.

It'd be exciting to see what kind of ideas for a hack the community can come up with, and what a small group of experienced ROM hackers can create out of them.
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  #24    
Old April 16th, 2016 (4:25 PM).
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Initially, I was hoping for a larger team. But reading Deokishisu's post, and considering a few other things, I'm more and more leaning towards a smaller team (no larger than 2/3 or so people per role (?)). That said, certain roles can be made to hold a larger amount of people and most people have overlapping skillsets.

I think Ben's initial idea was pretty good in this case. I also nominate Ben as project leader too since he plans to do it's promotion and he'd have an outside perspective on how the project is progressing. He's also got plenty of experience playing many ROM hacking titles which aids his ability to judge quality. Oh, and it was his idea to revive it all so there's that.

As for PC's groups feature, that was around a few years ago as well. I recall people making their own groups for their hacking teams. It was cool, but I don't think it'd be as effective as a real time chatting program with chat logging or even just a normal thread.
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  #25    
Old April 16th, 2016 (5:46 PM).
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Crizzle Crizzle is offline
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Deokishu is correct. That's why you have to make a clear distinction between two groups:
1)The actual hack team. Proven guys like FBI, Spherical, Christos, Danny, etc.(Not nominating those guys just examples of people). These guys actually hack the ROM(it's gonna be FireRed right?) itself. These guys get input and ideas from:
2)The rest of the community(including idiots like myself) who give suggestions and ideas for the details, Pokemon included, the story, character names, etc. Perhaps users can nominate particular ideas and vote for them or whatever. These people don't actually ROM hack but they've still involved so it's still a community hack.

That would solve the issues described by Deokishu and other skeptics while still keeping the spirit of the community ROM hack alive.
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