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Pokémon Strategies and Movesets Post your team lineups, get your team rated or rate other teams, talk about lineups, talk about moves/movesets, strategies, etc. For general talk about the games, go to the respective Pokémon game forums.


 
 
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  #1    
Old April 12th, 2011, 03:26 PM
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I believe in balance, that there is no so called perfect Pokémon. However, it could be possible to have a near perfect team. I’ve been trying to assemble the best six Pokémon types into one team which together will have an advantage against the majority of different Pokémon types (there are 17 types). It took me a little over thirty minutes looking at a chart of advantages/disadvantages of each Pokémon. What I came up with surprised me. There were actually six types of Pokémon that covered all seventeen types and here they are . . . (tell me what you think/feedback).


Electric, Ice, Fighting, Ground, Dark, Flying
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  #2    
Old April 12th, 2011, 03:30 PM
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Interesting. Doesn't mean it would make the PERFECT team.
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  #3    
Old April 12th, 2011, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by APokemonTrainer View Post
Interesting. Doesn't mean it would make the PERFECT team.

True, that's why I chose my words carefully and put near perfect.
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  #4    
Old April 12th, 2011, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr. Pokémon View Post
True, that's why I chose my words carefully and put near perfect.
Well played. :] I really do find this interesting. Could you possibly dive deeper into the subject?
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Requesting: Modest Ev'd Togekiss with Nasty Plot and Roost. 252 HP / 36 SPA / 220 SPE
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  #5    
Old April 12th, 2011, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by APokemonTrainer View Post
Well played. :] I really do find this interesting. Could you possibly dive deeper into the subject?
Sure.



It was a toss up between grass and electric to combat water types, but I chose electric because grass has too many disadvantages (grass type has 5 disadvantages). I never knew grass was at such a low point. However, it does explain why nobody considers Chikorita one of the good starting Pokémon.


An immediate favorite was dark type because it’s both effective against ghost and psychic. On one side there’s ghost type which is ‘not very effective' and then there is psychic type which has ‘no effect’ against dark type. You can see why dark type is a favorite.


Fighting, fighting and fighting. It’s dominant against so many different types. You know how I said grass type had five disadvantages? Well, fighting type Pokémon have five advantages (normal, ice, rock, dark and steel) which make it a powerhouse.



With these six Pokémon types, I’ve been wondering whether it’d even be practical to have a dual type Pokémon. It doesn’t seem very promising considering I would already have the selected types for any circumstance.


Upon further thought I decided that not using dual types would be the best option because dual types allow for another disadvantage that the type may not have had if it was just a single type. An example of this would be Piloswine (ice and ground) the ground type makes Piloswine vulnerable to grass type which if Piloswine was just an ice type, he would actually have the advantage and not be as vulnerable to grass Pokémon.
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  #6    
Old April 12th, 2011, 07:28 PM
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Interesting. Dual types might not be such a disadvantage so much as they require a little more thought. Take Scizor for example. He's a strong Bug/Steel that actually gains the advantage by having the second type. Granted he has a 4x weakness to fire but imagine if he was only a bug type. He would have a 2x weakness to fire, flying, psychic, and rock. Plus because he is steel type he also loses neutral damage from ice, ghost, normal, dragon, and dark. He's a pokemon with only one weakness and an almost super resistance to almost anything else, and only because of a dual type. :]
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Requesting: Modest Ev'd Togekiss with Nasty Plot and Roost. 252 HP / 36 SPA / 220 SPE
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  #7    
Old April 12th, 2011, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Pokémon View Post
Upon further thought I decided that not using dual types would be the best option because dual types allow for another disadvantage that the type may not have had if it was just a single type. An example of this would be Piloswine (ice and ground) the ground type makes Piloswine vulnerable to grass type which if Piloswine was just an ice type, he would actually have the advantage and not be as vulnerable to grass Pokémon.
What's crazy about Pokémon is that it's not just all about typing. You mentioned Piloswine (I'm going to assume Mamoswine from here on though because it's simply better competitively and yeah all that jazz) and his typing making him "vulnerable to Grass type"... but he still maintains the advantage over them if he's faster! Or better yet, if he uses Ice Shard... and his two dual-types? They give him very very good coverage. Just because a dual-typing creates some weaknesses doesn't mean it's without its benefits, too (unless we're talking Rock/Bug-typing where the only types you resist are Normal and Poison :|). Pokémon is more than just typing advantages and disadvantages - it's about speed, and power, and luck, and moves, and strategy, and everything... You can't just pick four Pokémon of those types you mentioned and expect to have a fantastic team, because you won't. That's just my opinion, anyway...
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  #8    
Old April 12th, 2011, 08:16 PM
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Good post. I consider pokemon such as that as being problematic and one of the reasons why I believe pokemon should have one offset move. For instance, Ampharos is an electric pokemon that learns fire punch. It's a perfect candidate to take on Scizor. It'll be a more powerful move than would have been because Scizor gives up it's defense against fire type, allowing for a 4x damage. I believe there is a formula to move sets such as 1 offset, 1 defense, 1 status and 1 special. Here is an example . . .

Ampharos - Fire Punch (offset), Light Screen (defense), Thunder Wave (status) and Thunder (special)




Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrai View Post
Pokémon is more than just typing advantages and disadvantages - it's about speed, and power, and luck, and moves, and strategy, and everything... You can't just pick four Pokémon of those types you mentioned and expect to have a fantastic team, because you won't. That's just my opinion, anyway...
Agreed. QFT.

Btw, I thought I specifically told you guys that these six pokemon types could never lose . . j/k. Lighten up, nobody said these pokemon types were indestructable/immortal gods. It's just a discussion of pokemon types, their advantages/disadvantages.
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Last edited by Dr. Pokémon; April 12th, 2011 at 08:29 PM. Reason: Your double post has been automatically merged.
  #9    
Old April 12th, 2011, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Pokémon View Post
Good post. I consider pokemon such as that as being problematic and one of the reasons why I believe pokemon should have one offset move. For instance, Ampharos is an electric pokemon that learns fire punch. It's a perfect candidate to take on Scizor. It'll be a more powerful move than would have been because Scizor gives up it's defense against fire type, allowing for a 4x damage. I believe there is a formula to move sets such as 1 offset, 1 defense, 1 status and 1 special. Here is an example . . .

Ampharos - Fire Punch (offset), Light Screen (defense), Thunder Wave (status) and Thunder (special)
Nice point but I have to say with 252 EVs in speed and Adamant STAB Technician Bulletpunch I think Scizor would still take out Ampharos with little resistance. I understand your point though. There is a reason though that I have a scizor in my team. ;]
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Requesting: Modest Ev'd Togekiss with Nasty Plot and Roost. 252 HP / 36 SPA / 220 SPE
Offering: I have plenty to offer. IF you have what I want just PM me.

  #10    
Old April 12th, 2011, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by APokemonTrainer View Post
Nice point but I have to say with 252 EVs in speed and Adamant STAB Technician Bulletpunch I think Scizor would still take out Ampharos with little resistance. I understand your point though. There is a reason though that I have a scizor in my team. ;]
Scizor is quite beastly.
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  #11    
Old April 12th, 2011, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Pokémon View Post
Scizor is quite beastly.
And he's just one that I pulled off the top of my head. I'm sure there are other dual types that are quite amazing also.
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Requesting: Modest Ev'd Togekiss with Nasty Plot and Roost. 252 HP / 36 SPA / 220 SPE
Offering: I have plenty to offer. IF you have what I want just PM me.

  #12    
Old April 12th, 2011, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Pokémon View Post
I believe there is a formula to move sets such as 1 offset, 1 defense, 1 status and 1 special. Here is an example . . .

Ampharos - Fire Punch (offset), Light Screen (defense), Thunder Wave (status) and Thunder (special)
Well, I think that there could be some sets effective like that, but oftentimes you might get a lot more out of a moveset if it's not so generic - I mean, if it's more specific. Not everything can go mixed like with Fire Punch/Thunder - some Pokemon, such as Scizor discussed earlier, have an absolutely subpar Special Attack and if you tried to use something like Vacuum Wave on it, you wouldn't be using it to maximum effectiveness. However, a move like Bullet Punch (which gets STAB, Priority, and Technician boost) is much more effective. I don't think there's any real formula because half the time a moveset that fits one Pokemon doesn't fit any others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Pokémon View Post
Agreed. QFT.

Btw, I thought I specifically told you guys that these six pokemon types could never lose . . j/k. Lighten up, nobody said these pokemon types were indestructable/immortal gods. It's just a discussion of pokemon types, their advantages/disadvantages.
Yeah, I didn't mean to come off like that! D:
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  #13    
Old April 12th, 2011, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Vrai View Post
Yeah, I didn't mean to come off like that! D:
I do admit, it did come off that way.
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/Tyranitar/Vaporeon/Scizor
Badges: 8/8
Pokedex: 359/649

Requesting: Modest Ev'd Togekiss with Nasty Plot and Roost. 252 HP / 36 SPA / 220 SPE
Offering: I have plenty to offer. IF you have what I want just PM me.

  #14    
Old April 13th, 2011, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrai View Post
Well, I think that there could be some sets effective like that, but oftentimes you might get a lot more out of a moveset if it's not so generic - I mean, if it's more specific. Not everything can go mixed like with Fire Punch/Thunder - some Pokemon, such as Scizor discussed earlier, have an absolutely subpar Special Attack and if you tried to use something like Vacuum Wave on it, you wouldn't be using it to maximum effectiveness. However, a move like Bullet Punch (which gets STAB, Priority, and Technician boost) is much more effective. I don't think there's any real formula because half the time a moveset that fits one Pokemon doesn't fit any others.
I agree, quite a lot of different variables in Pokémon. However, the notion of a formula (such as the one I used) was more of just an idea that I have catered to a couple Pokémon in my team such as Ampharos. I have a Dragonite as well (which is my opening Pokémon), but it has four entirely different types of moves. I taught Dragonite these TM’s Blizzard (ice), Thunder (electric), Fire Blast (fire) and Focus Punch (fighting). Dragonite is truly just meant to cause havoc in the opening with an array of different types of moves.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrai View Post
Yeah, I didn't mean to come off like that! D:
It's okay.
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  #15    
Old April 13th, 2011, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by APokemonTrainer View Post
And he's just one that I pulled off the top of my head. I'm sure there are other dual types that are quite amazing also.

Volcarona is quite beastly with bug/fire..
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  #16    
Old April 13th, 2011, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by APokemonTrainer View Post
Interesting. Dual types might not be such a disadvantage so much as they require a little more thought. Take Scizor for example. He's a strong Bug/Steel that actually gains the advantage by having the second type. Granted he has a 4x weakness to fire but imagine if he was only a bug type. He would have a 2x weakness to fire, flying, psychic, and rock. Plus because he is steel type he also loses neutral damage from ice, ghost, normal, dragon, and dark. He's a pokemon with only one weakness and an almost super resistance to almost anything else, and only because of a dual type. :]
Actually, bug types aren't effected much by Psychic, it's the other way around of Bug > Psychic.
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Old April 14th, 2011, 03:49 AM
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..Can I just add my two cents?
Stats and moves can drastically outbalance typing.

Say I have a

Charizard - Fire|Flying

VS

Golem - Rock|Ground

Charizard has a 4x type disadvantage, but could easily kill Golem with a HP Water or Earthquake because Golem is freakishly slow.
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  #18    
Old April 14th, 2011, 07:36 AM
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..Can I just add my two cents?
Stats and moves can drastically outbalance typing.

Say I have a

Charizard - Fire|Flying

VS

Golem - Rock|Ground

Charizard has a 4x type disadvantage, but could easily kill Golem with a HP Water or Earthquake because Golem is freakishly slow.
But, if that Golem has Sturdy, then Charizard is screwed, since it can just Stone Edge/Rock Slide and end it. Which just goes to show you have to think about Types/Moves/Abilities when deciding on a team, btw Ice has Fighting/Rock/Steel/Fire as weakness, so you need to combat them 4. Fire and Fighting are pretty common.
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