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  #451    
Old May 22nd, 2012 (10:11 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Shining Raichu:
Here's an article which outlines the Salvation Army's views on LGBT rights which poses a very interesting question on whether or not the good they do is enough to excuse the evil.

Here is one instance of them actually refusing to help a gay couple unless they agreed to break up.

You can Google "Salvation Army gay" and get millions of results. They're notorious for this, and with an organisation such as the Salvation Army, there really is no doubt that it stems from the religious aspect.
I recall seeing something about the Salvation Army threatening to close some of their soup kitchens in New York if they passed the law enabling Gay Marriage...

No, I don't think the good that they do even remotely excuses what they have done. I don't think people would be so forgiving of a charity having an official opposition to black people or those of another religion, but that's by the by. I boycotted the Salvation Army a long time ago, and I've tried to make others are of what they do. A charity should never abuse it's status (to the point of endangering the well being of the people they supposedly protect) for the purpose of making other people bow down to their religious opinion. I find that thoroughly repulsive, and it negates any good that they do.
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  #452    
Old May 23rd, 2012 (05:37 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Blue Nocturne:


I recall seeing something about the Salvation Army threatening to close some of their soup kitchens in New York if they passed the law enabling Gay Marriage...
That was some catholic church or something in Washington, was there in one of the links.

Quote:
Likewise, there is no scriptural support for demeaning or mistreating anyone for reason of his or her sexual orientation. The Salvation Army opposes any such abuse.
That was from the Salvation Army Website. The thing is, every organization has those... people who do things like this. Idiots who don't really do what the organization is supposed to do. And, really, only one person is needed to do something like that to give the whole organization a bad name. I scroll down and see lots of people leave comments where the salvation army hasn't discriminated, and actually helped people from all backgrounds and beliefs. I did more research, and found the original article from Browning:
Salvation Army hears dissent over Gay views
That guys who tried make him break up probably wasn't the best representative of the army. Seriously? Try make someone go to church for it? That's not how you're supposed to live out Christianity . You shouldn't help just help people who believe in what you believe. But I couldn't find more such cases from reliable websites though.

And, about their beliefs throwing up a question whether the good they do excuses their 'evil'... what's the problem in bringing their beliefs into the open? As said above, most of the army doesn't discriminate based on it; they actually advocate against discrimination (at least, for homosexuality). So, other than believing something you believe to be morally wrong, where's the 'evil'? 'Cuz really, you're doing the same thing in their opinion; believing in something they believe morally wrong.

Sorry if that was a bit over blown :/ I realized my troubles weren't over with my exams . Seems I have projects left.
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  #453    
Old May 26th, 2012 (03:24 PM).
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Personally I don't feel that it's fair if you donate to religious based charities, because I feel as if they'll be bias towards people who have the same faith as them which I don't think is fair. I'm not going to deny they do good things for people I just dont think its fair that they choose who they want to help.
The refusion of help to the gay couple just shows that because of their religious beliefs, even though they are a charity, they'll deny help to people who go against what the believe! This is why I wouldnt and dont really donate to religious based charities like the salvo's. I still think donating to charities is a good thing but I'd prefer to give my money to Westpac Surf Rescue Helicopters because they'll save anyone regardless of what they believe in or who they are.
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  #454    
Old May 26th, 2012 (05:22 PM). Edited May 26th, 2012 by Shining Raichu.
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OMG I've had this open in a tab for like three days. I totally forgot to finish this reply lmao.

Before:
Quote originally posted by FrostPheonix:
Gay-rights activist rips Bible, mocks teens fleeing room

What do you guys think? I was speechless... prior to this I supported the 'It gets better foundation' and was thinking of doing something to help it, now I'm not so sure. What was he thinking?
Quote originally posted by FrostPhoenix:
As to him not being the whole organisation and all, I think that if you are the founder, you're a representative of it. Actions you make will affect how your organization is being seen, and one should consider that in public speeches. At least that's how I see it.
After:
Quote originally posted by FrostPhoenix:
That was from the Salvation Army Website. The thing is, every organization has those... people who do things like this. Idiots who don't really do what the organization is supposed to do. And, really, only one person is needed to do something like that to give the whole organization a bad name. I scroll down and see lots of people leave comments where the salvation army hasn't discriminated, and actually helped people from all backgrounds and beliefs. I did more research, and found the original article from Browning:
Salvation Army hears dissent over Gay views
That guys who tried make him break up probably wasn't the best representative of the army. Seriously? Try make someone go to church for it? That's not how you're supposed to live out Christianity . You shouldn't help just help people who believe in what you believe. But I couldn't find more such cases from reliable websites though.
Just pointing out your change in perspective

You can support The Salvation Army if you like, that's up to you. But this went all over the Internet and as far as I know, they haven't apologised or even acknowledged the situation other than to say "they should have been helped" and to give some weak excuse about upheaval in the shelter's bedding system - which has been happening in 'recent years', while the incident in question was a decade ago. Until I hear from them in no uncertain terms that this was just an unruly volunteer and not a symptom of a bigger problem within the organisation, they're not getting a dime from me. Because given their official writings on the matter, from the article you linked,

Quote:
“The Salvation Army does not consider same-sex orientation blameworthy in itself. Homosexual conduct, like heterosexual conduct, requires individual responsibility and must be guided by the light of scriptural teaching. Scripture forbids sexual intimacy between members of the same sex. The Salvation Army believes, therefore, that Christians whose sexual orientation is primarily or exclusively same-sex are called upon to embrace celibacy as a way of life.
I'm inclined to believe it's the latter. I'm not willing to give them the benefit of the doubt because what happened to Mr. Browning seems to be supported by the literature of The Salvation Army itself.
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  #455    
Old May 26th, 2012 (05:53 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Shining Raichu:
OMG I've had this open in a tab for like three days. I totally forgot to finish this reply lmao.

Before:




After:


Just pointing out your change in perspective :P
Well, the first case was of the founder of the organization, and the second was just some random employee. Not really the same thing.

Quote:
Scripture forbids sexual intimacy between members of the same sex. The Salvation Army believes, therefore, that Christians whose sexual orientation is primarily or exclusively same-sex are called upon to embrace celibacy as a way of life.
Well, at least they're acknowledging that it's not a choice. lol
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  #456    
Old May 27th, 2012 (01:45 PM).
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Quote originally posted by QuilavaKing:
Well, at least they're acknowledging that it's not a choice. lol
Call me cynical, but I think as long as people can find a way to discriminate against you they won't mind granting you a few things for the sake of argument.

"Oh, sure, sexual orientation is not a choice, but scripture says that you can only marry an opposite-sex partner so..."

The logic next step (not a choice -> shouldn't discriminate because of it) isn't something they'll take so it's not like they're meeting you halfway or really conceding anything.
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  #457    
Old May 27th, 2012 (07:57 PM).
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Quote originally posted by QuilavaKing:
Well, the first case was of the founder of the organization, and the second was just some random employee. Not really the same thing.
You're absolutely right, it's not the same thing. What Dan Savage did was completely unrelated to the It Gets Better Foundation, whereas what this random employee did he did as an employee of The Salvation Army. He didn't refuse to help these people who came to his personal front door and begged for food, he turned them away from the organisation which was created to help people in need.
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  #458    
Old May 29th, 2012 (01:45 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Shining Raichu:
OMG I've had this open in a tab for like three days. I totally forgot to finish this reply lmao.
I kno how you feel... its horrible, isn't it?

Quote originally posted by Shining Raichu:
Before:
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrostPheonix
Gay-rights activist rips Bible, mocks teens fleeing room

What do you guys think? I was speechless... prior to this I supported the 'It gets better foundation' and was thinking of doing something to help it, now I'm not so sure. What was he thinking?
-.- I did say later on that I was ranting there. I didn't really mean that.

Quote originally posted by Shining Raichu:
After:

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrostPhoenix
As to him not being the whole organisation and all, I think that if you are the founder, you're a representative of it. Actions you make will affect how your organization is being seen, and one should consider that in public speeches. At least that's how I see it.
Just bolded what I want to say I agree, if you are a member you still are a rep of the company, like you might be of your school or something, but being the leader or founder carries a special significance.

Quote originally posted by Shining Raichu:
You're absolutely right, it's not the same thing. What Dan Savage did was completely unrelated to the It Gets Better Foundation, whereas what this random employee did he did as an employee of The Salvation Army. He didn't refuse to help these people who came to his personal front door and begged for food, he turned them away from the organisation which was created to help people in need.
Umm, I think having a speech on homosexuality and christians does have to do with the "It Gets Better" Foundation, which has to do with homosexuals getting bullied...?

I realize that the guys turned away people for their beliefs, but I think what I said before kind of speaks out my thoughts on that:

Quote originally posted by FrostPheonix:
That guy who tried make him break up probably wasn't the best representative of the army. Seriously? Try make someone go to church for it? That's not how you're supposed to live out Christianity . You shouldn't help just help people who believe in what you believe.
Quote originally posted by Shining Raichu:
You can support The Salvation Army if you like, that's up to you. But this went all over the Internet and as far as I know, they haven't apologised or even acknowledged the situation other than to say "they should have been helped" and to give some weak excuse about upheaval in the shelter's bedding system - which has been happening in 'recent years', while the incident in question was a decade ago. Until I hear from them in no uncertain terms that this was just an unruly volunteer and not a symptom of a bigger problem within the organisation, they're not getting a dime from me. Because given their official writings on the matter, from the article you linked,

I'm inclined to believe it's the latter. I'm not willing to give them the benefit of the doubt because what happened to Mr. Browning seems to be supported by the literature of The Salvation Army itself.
Didn't know that they didn't say anything except lame excuses :/. And did you ignore what I actually linked from their site?

Quote:
Likewise, there is no scriptural support for demeaning or mistreating anyone for reason of his or her sexual orientation. The Salvation Army opposes any such abuse.
It actually opposes what happened to Mr. Browning. And I guess it's your choice if you donate or not, I just wanted to clarify that, officially, they're against any discrimination of the sort.

Also, did you guys hear? Doomsday 2012 no longer will happen I saw the thread somewhere in the other chat forum. Funny, don't you think? I kinda feel sorry for those poor sods who invested all their money into bunkers and stuff in preparation for the end...
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  #459    
Old May 29th, 2012 (09:05 AM).
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Quote originally posted by FrostPheonix:
Just bolded what I want to say ^^ I agree, if you are a member you still are a rep of the company, like you might be of your school or something, but being the leader or founder carries a special significance.
I think it depends. If you have final say on every It Gets Better video then, yes, you as a person are more representative since everything it being filtered through you before people see it, but since IGB is so widespread and independent it's founders are much less representative, I think.

Regarding 2012 end-of-the-world stuff, I don't think anyone actually built bunkers and things like that for the "end of the Mayan calendar" doomsday, but I know that people did sell all the possessions, etc. because of that one American radio pastor who said the world would end sometime last year. Poor saps. Still, it was fun for a while. The guy was based in Oakland, California and I was actually in Oakland the day it was supposed to happen and there was actually an earthquake (a small one) one hour after the time he said the world would end.
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  #460    
Old May 31st, 2012 (03:13 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Scarf:
Regarding 2012 end-of-the-world stuff, I don't think anyone actually built bunkers and things like that for the "end of the Mayan calendar" doomsday, but I know that people did sell all the possessions, etc. because of that one American radio pastor who said the world would end sometime last year. Poor saps. Still, it was fun for a while. The guy was based in Oakland, California and I was actually in Oakland the day it was supposed to happen and there was actually an earthquake (a small one) one hour after the time he said the world would end.
I did hear about this guy who turned a Silo into a survival bunker and rich sods were buying places in it. It was on the news (MSN, so I guess you have to take it with a pinch of salt), but the guy was saying he made it completely self sufficient and all and that it had its own defense systems when mobs try raid it. Its for him and people like him that I feel sorry...
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  #461    
Old June 10th, 2012 (05:08 AM).
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Atheism is going to win out by 2038, guys - The Huffington Post says so.
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  #462    
Old June 11th, 2012 (07:11 AM).
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The Huffington Post likes a good, attention-grabbing headline like that.
"The basic idea is that as people become more affluent, they are less worried about lacking for basic necessities, or dying early from violence or disease. In other words they are secure in their own existence. They do not feel the need to appeal to supernatural entities to calm their fears and insecurities."
We better make sure we stay affluent! But I do see religion waning, and I'm 50/50 hopeful that we'll get to a place where religion doesn't have the strength to influence the rest of society. I can also see religious types getting more radical though.
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  #463    
Old June 18th, 2012 (11:03 PM).
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I've been an atheist for about 7 years, since I was 12. I'm a supporter of same sex rights, even though I'm straight. I grew up in a small christian town in Texas where I'm surrounded by the biggest bigots of the south.

SIGN ME UP!
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  #464    
Old June 20th, 2012 (05:51 AM).
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Welcome Epitaph93! Haha I love your little introduction, that was very well-put.

Quote originally posted by Scarf:
I'm 50/50 hopeful that we'll get to a place where religion doesn't have the strength to influence the rest of society.
Only 50/50 hopeful? I'm incredibly hopeful! It seems to me that there is some sort of linear progression going on away from religion and at the same time, towards equality. That's not to say that religion is the exclusive roadblock to equality, but it is certainly a main opponent, judging by the current events in Australia where this week we are seeing Parliament debate same-sex marriage, and it is the religious leaders only who are putting up resistance. They are handing out propaganda at church services, it's disgusting to watch.

They're executing their pull over society, but it's weaker than it was even twenty years ago. I can't see it shifting back the other way.
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  #465    
Old June 20th, 2012 (03:21 PM).
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Welcome!

I agree with you Andy, religion is definitely starting to lose its once strong grip on society rather quickly now with more people going against what they say because of how biased it is (imo). I think as people are becoming more open about their sexuality and people are being more accepting the narrow minded views of christians will be disregarded by more people as well, again weakening the grip on society. I think it'll lead to more equality in the least with same sex marriages being accepted sooner rather than later.
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  #466    
Old June 23rd, 2012 (06:53 AM).
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I hate to revisit an old topic, but

Quote originally posted by FrostPhoenix:
That guy who tried make him break up probably wasn't the best representative of the army. Seriously? Try make someone go to church for it? That's not how you're supposed to live out Christianity . You shouldn't help just help people who believe in what you believe.
Do you still believe that was just one bad employee and not representative of the army?

^ That line is a link. Sometimes depending on what style you use it's hard to tell lol
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  #467    
Old June 23rd, 2012 (09:11 AM).
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Count me in on this club/thread

My mother was never too religious. But she is a Pagan. So never said "HERE'S A BIBLE, WORSHIP JEEEESUSSSSS." Or tried to get me to be a Pagan. I had the freedom to choose whatever religion I wanted.

For awhile, I was agnostic, because I just didn't know what to believe. But by now, Religion has become a joke for me. I tell all my friends that I worship the "Nyan Cat." Because they think it's stupid to believe in something that's "Not real." LOL.

I've personally seen no reason to believe in a higher power that doesn't support Homosexual love/Homosexuals in general. God's a *****.
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  #468    
Old June 27th, 2012 (08:41 PM).
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God does support/love homosexuals, it's his followers that don't. Certainly makes it hard to not question its legitimacy though.
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Old July 3rd, 2012 (05:37 PM).
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Welcome coolalex144!

The problem is though, that until God reveals himself in a thunder cloud and says "I love everybody, judge not ye mere mortals" or whatever he'd say, his followers are all we have to go by. And because there are so many of them with so many different views, they're incredibly inconsistent. What God loves and hates, who God is, all of that varies depending on who you talk to.

If all the Christians in the world could get together in a giant room and just work out a consistent story to come up with, maybe the whole thing would be more plausible and religion itself wouldn't seem so flimsy.
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  #470    
Old July 4th, 2012 (02:57 AM). Edited July 4th, 2012 by CarefulWetPaint.
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I totally agree with Andy, everything seems to contradict.
"Love everyone, hate these people."
"Everyones equal, no gay marriage." etc etc.
I think all the groups of Christianity really needs to get together and work out everything properly. That way they'll all over the board either be with things or against things other then different opinions everywhere!
tl;dr or didnt make sense:
Basically God's followers are God's world and represent his view on the world until he comes and talks to us personally.
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Old July 5th, 2012 (08:34 AM).
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I would be more than a little scared if all Christians suddenly agreed on everything. And aren't religious texts supposedly how gods get represented here on planet Earth? Not that they are necessarily better than followers since there are lots of disagreeable bits on a lot of texts and with all the translations, additions, and omissions over the centuries it's hard to know what would have been there originally.

And now, a question: would you date someone who was very religious? (Like, not Jesus Camp religious, but goes to services every week, etc.) Imagine they're someone you got on with really well before answering.

(And if you're religious, would you date someone very atheist?)
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  #472    
Old July 5th, 2012 (09:28 AM).
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My mom told me never to marry someone who isn't a Christian, using her relationship with my dad as an example of why I shouldn't. At the time, I took it to heart, but I wouldn't really care one way or the other now. Dating a Christian would probably make me go to church and stuff again, and dating an atheist would probably do the opposite.

Remind me to never write long posts from my phone again. lol
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  #473    
Old July 5th, 2012 (05:30 PM).
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Would I date someone with a religion? Absolutely. Would I date somebody very religious? Not a chance in Hell.

I just think it's a recipe for disaster. Religion is a very... contentious issue, and I can't imagine being in an intimate relationship (or to extrapolate, sharing my life) with somebody who disagreed so wholeheartedly on it. I'd like to think we'd both be mature enough not to let it get in the way of our relationship, but I know that's an unrealistic expectation, because there are so many opportunities for it to cause trouble.

The thing about religion, when you're that religious, is that it affects a good chunk of your daily life. There are restrictions on life that accompany it and I wouldn't be comfortable feeling the need to support and facilitate those restrictions and have them impact on my life when I don't agree with them. Then there's the more simple things like what we do on Easter and Christmas, whether we say grace at the table... it would just eat at me. I couldn't do it.

Not to mention also that if somebody were both homosexual and extremely religious, then that person has the potential to be severely messed up and I'm not sure I have it in me to maintain that kind of personality lol.
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  #474    
Old July 5th, 2012 (06:15 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Shining Raichu:
Would I date someone with a religion? Absolutely. Would I date somebody very religious? Not a chance in Hell.
I couldnt think of a better way to say it myself. If someone was super religious and I was with them it would just cause conflict because I'd disagree with their faith and they would probably talk about it regularly/ have regular religious activities that they would want me to go too. This would just be way to hard for me to handle and I doubt many people would be able to handle a relationship like that..
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Old July 17th, 2012 (11:46 AM).
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Here is a tidbit of news.

A high school teacher has bragged in written form about how a student atheist group was blocked from forming at his school, but one of the students there has spread this across the internet and and fired back at how all of this has crossed legal lines and generally shone a bright light on the teacher and school.

It's clearer if you just read about it.
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