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  #2476    
Old March 21st, 2012 (08:24 PM).
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As far as gender issues go, I've heard of kids who transitioned at the age of 12 or earlier, because ever since they were born they were functioning like the opposite gender, crying because they were confused, hated their bodies at an age where that's usually not possible, etc. That's a lot of proof, to me, that you don't have to be 18 before you're certain. I've had gender issues nearly my whole life too, and though it wasn't to the extent that I just mentioned, I knew something was off. Granted, now days I'm more comfortable acknowledging that I'm female, though I'm still pretty boyish, and in my case some of that was sexuality issues and not entirely gender related, but I still remember what it was like when I younger. I'm convinced that young kids can know, and sometimes the parents are certain as well.
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Old March 22nd, 2012 (05:58 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Pudz:

Interestingly thing, transgirls taking polyjuice pills will generally fall under the female statistics for many maladies; for example, prostate cancer is almost unheard of in transgirls, but breast cancer levels are elevated to approximately the same risk levels as genetic girls. Things like skin cancer, heart disease, diabetes, et cetera; are all likewise impacted by the change in hormones due to the far-reaching ramifications this has on even the smallest thing ~ like sugar absorption.
That is true most diseases are affected by hormones, but I was thinking more genetic diseases carried on the Y, and things that generally are caused by the malfunction of a Y chromosome (or lack of I suppose ).

Quote originally posted by Toujours:


I think you'll find a post I made in another thread a while back interesting, I linked some studies for the exact same reason, in a thread about a 7 year old that's a boy that identifies as a girl.

http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?p=7008244#post7008244

As far as this, I don't think there's anywhere where a young child says "I feel like a <opposite sex>!" and the parent says "Okay, let's go get you surgery then! You said it once, that's irrevocable!" There are professionals whose job is to diagnose this kind of thing based on the individual, and then the child themselves has the ability to choose the right course of action. And tbh, I'd much prefer it this way than the other way around. I'm not sure of the positives of wishing closed-minded parents that will reject a child for having a different gender identity than their sex onto said child.

Progressive parents still have that bond of wanting what's best for their child, and I'm sure they think beyond "4 year old boy says he feels like a girl, let's go get her surgery now" to the possibility that it's a phase or a meaningless wish. However, if the child continually reiterates this in a way that identifies with a trans attitude, then it's reasonable to believe what the child is saying.
Thank you for those links! Just what I was looking for, very insightful. It's a shame there isn't much more on the topic - although I guess that's probably due to ethical issues and not wanting to inadvertently upset people.

Quote originally posted by EntwinedSilence:
As far as gender issues go, I've heard of kids who transitioned at the age of 12 or earlier, because ever since they were born they were functioning like the opposite gender, crying because they were confused, hated their bodies at an age where that's usually not possible, etc. That's a lot of proof, to me, that you don't have to be 18 before you're certain. I've had gender issues nearly my whole life too, and though it wasn't to the extent that I just mentioned, I knew something was off. Granted, now days I'm more comfortable acknowledging that I'm female, though I'm still pretty boyish, and in my case some of that was sexuality issues and not entirely gender related, but I still remember what it was like when I younger. I'm convinced that young kids can know, and sometimes the parents are certain as well.
This kind of full circles back my point though - you are now comfortable with your gender, but however long ago you weren't. If you hadn't had this time to find yourself and had instead seeked to fix the problem with hormones or surgery, how do you think you would be now? I understand there are varying levels of 'confusion', no doubt, and going through puberty could make the ordeal worse in many respects - but on the flip side what if puberty, experimentation, generally getting to that age where you learn a lot about yourself and others, actually made you feel comfortable anyway.


---

I'm gonna kick the ball off with another topic as well: Do you think LGBT individuals are well represented in television and film?

I have noticed an increase in Gay and Lesbian people, especially in reality TV shows ('Come Dine With Me', 'Jeremy Kyle' - Don't judge, I'm a student ) however they are often rather stereotypical - generally either camp men or 'butch' women. I have no doubt there are people on the TV who don't fit these stereotypes but they don't really seem to announce themselves as clearly.

With regards to TV characters I don't really watch anything frequently enough to know.

I did see the film "The Best Exotic Marigold Resort" last week. It was essentially a middle-aged comedy however it had a very realistic, and very surprising, gay character in it - who none of the audience or the other characters picked up on. When the big reveal was made the actor pulled it off with such emotion - and the reunion scene with his boyfriend from 40 years ago was tearworthy. This is the kind of gay character that I think should be working it's way up in the tv/film industry - normal men/women who just happen to like members of the same sex.

Over here in the UK we had a program called 'Transsexual Summer' which sounds terrible at first but it was actually very insightful. It followed a group of trans people at different stages of transitioning, helping each other deal with the problems they face, and helping them to make friends with people who understand their situation. There were many heartwarming moments within the group and with the locals who got to know them, generally I think it was a great eye-opener for myself and the public. I think what helped was it didn't just give the 'stereotypical' trans, man in a dress, kind of people. They were all real people, with different reasoning and personalities, and much easier to relate to. That being said, I don't think I have seen any trans characters in anything.

What do you guys think?
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  #2478    
Old March 22nd, 2012 (07:35 AM).
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Quote originally posted by SwiftSign:
If you hadn't had this time to find yourself and had instead seeked to fix the problem with hormones or surgery, how do you think you would be now?
I know this wasn't directed to me, but I just want to say that if there is someone for whom surgery and hormones aren't necessary for them to feel comfortable they won't go through with surgery and hormones. Somewhere along the way they would find a place where they are comfortable. You don't just jump into surgery. You can't. It's literally the last step you can take. No doctors are going to help you with that unless you're totally sure.
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  #2479    
Old March 22nd, 2012 (12:10 PM).
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I'm trying to recall the name of a movie I once saw, which was about some girl who died in a car accident and her mother has to cope with it by communicating with some of the girl's friends, and she finds out stuff about her past. I really can't figure out the name anymore and desperately punching in random keywords on google and hoping for the best doesn't seem to help for some reason. Anyway, there were two gay characters in it who were in a relationship with each other. They managed to pull of the roles rather good. Neither were overly flamboyant or anything.
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Old March 22nd, 2012 (02:25 PM).
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I watched My Transsexual Summer. It was sickening. I follow all of the participants online and they all complained about the show, it didn't show their backgrounds and most of it was showing surgery, girls putting on make-up, and male genitalia.

Two of the trans men were made into background people as their stories weren't heart wrenching enough or interesting enough and it didn't air most of the actual good things which would've educated and opened the eyes of viewers.

Oh and they didn't get paid.
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  #2481    
Old March 22nd, 2012 (03:25 PM).
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I don't know, I haven't ever really watched any American tv/movies that have Gay characters in them... but in most of the anime I watch, they tend to act like it's a really happy, pure thing. They never really talk about either character being gay, or what society thinks about it.
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  #2482    
Old March 23rd, 2012 (07:50 AM).
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Quote originally posted by ~Kawaii~:
I watched My Transsexual Summer. It was sickening. I follow all of the participants online and they all complained about the show, it didn't show their backgrounds and most of it was showing surgery, girls putting on make-up, and male genitalia.

Two of the trans men were made into background people as their stories weren't heart wrenching enough or interesting enough and it didn't air most of the actual good things which would've educated and opened the eyes of viewers.

Oh and they didn't get paid.
I'm really saddened to hear that such an exploitative thing as this has happened. Saddened and angered. I'd sort of heard about this show existing, but I live in the US so it wasn't something that anyone else would have heard about and I guess it slipped my mind. I'm glad I didn't pursue it now hearing about what it's like.
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  #2483    
Old March 23rd, 2012 (08:49 AM).
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Quote originally posted by ~Kawaii~:
I watched My Transsexual Summer. It was sickening. I follow all of the participants online and they all complained about the show, it didn't show their backgrounds and most of it was showing surgery, girls putting on make-up, and male genitalia.

Two of the trans men were made into background people as their stories weren't heart wrenching enough or interesting enough and it didn't air most of the actual good things which would've educated and opened the eyes of viewers.

Oh and they didn't get paid.
Don't mean to jump the gun but 'sickening' is possibly going too far.

The documentary wasn't some definitive transsexual show, no doubt it will be followed by more in the future, and to be quite frank it did serve it's purpose well.

Bearing in mind the majority of channel 4's audience will never have experienced transgender people at all in their lives, it was a great start and a good introduction to transsexuals. It may not be perfect, but when is any show perfect. The show focused on 'easier' topics to follow, and more humorous aspect for sure - they need to keep people entertained to a degree to keep them watching through the more emotional and informative sections. Sure they could have shown talks about gender binary, or things like 'two spirit' and such in the show - but how much of that would your average viewer understand without spending a whole episode explaining it, really?

As to them not being paid, I was only aware of that from reading Max's blog after. However, realistically - they signed up to the show, they should have questioned their payment and such and why it wasn't mentioned in the contract before hand. That's how the world works really. It's unfortunate sure but it's not because they have been mistreated for being trans, which is what you seem to be making out.

Overall I think you're expecting far too much, for what it was I think it painted a good picture of trans people, without alienating them or laughing at their expense. It also opened the door to future, deeper documentaries which seems to be what you want.
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  #2484    
Old March 23rd, 2012 (11:36 AM).
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Sorry I've been inactive for a while. I've been talking with a friend about hints in MLP that Rainbow Dash being a lesbian. It could be coincidense. But if it isn't, I think it's great that a kid's show would have that. Even if it's subliminal. What do you guys think? Is it a good idea for a kid's show to have homosexuality?
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  #2485    
Old March 23rd, 2012 (11:59 AM).
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Meh, beats me. I know a lot of kids shows that have all these rumours about the characters being gay. Not even a show as innocent as Sesame Street escapes the crackpot theorists who claim Bert and Ernie are homosexual partners. The thing is, children won't ever notice these kinds of signals. They just see two guys who happen to live in the same house as best friends, or brothers or something. It's the elders (and even then, only a handful) who go berserk over it because they think it's giving their children gay.
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Old March 23rd, 2012 (09:09 PM).
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Spongebob is the gayest person on TV. Just saying. lol :P

It's fairly pointless honestly. Kids will never understand subtle hints, and if even those are pissing off parents, then there's no way they'll be able to have actual Gay characters.
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Old March 24th, 2012 (03:14 AM).
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Well, one thing I really think was also a good show that very subtly touched such a subject was Pinky & the Brain with Pharfignewton. Sure Pharfignewton was a mare, but I just thought it was great how he always wanted people to be more tolerant everytime they pointed out he was a mouse and pharfignewton was a mare. The entire thing was all very analogous to just about any other taboo form of romance in the world, including homosexual relationships; interracial relationships, which are still looked down upon by some extreme racists; etcetera.
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  #2488    
Old March 24th, 2012 (03:48 AM).
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Quote originally posted by EGKangaroo:
Not even a show as innocent as Sesame Street escapes the crackpot theorists who claim Bert and Ernie are homosexual partners.
Uh, excuse me, crackpot theorists? Bert and Ernie are in love. Their love is deep and it's real and how dare you deny them the recognition it deserves.
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Old March 24th, 2012 (04:42 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Shining Raichu:
Uh, excuse me, crackpot theorists? Bert and Ernie are in love. Their love is deep and it's real and how dare you deny them the recognition it deserves.
Haha, I am sorry. Yeah, sure, they love each other. But I am just saying, it's not that it's never explicitly told whether they are homosexual partners or brothers, or just plain best friends. In this country at least, the subject only really comes up in the form of complaints coming from Christian people saying it sends too many gay signals to their children. They can definitely bicker sometimes like a married couple.
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Old March 24th, 2012 (04:54 AM).
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And as we all know, bickering is a gateway activity; it may lead to harder stuff like girly slap-fights or homoeroticism

Screw those wingnuts, if they can find a way to ruin Sesame Street they can find a way to ruin anything - and it's never for lack of trying when they can't. But I will fight them to the death on this one; Bert and Ernie are in a committed relationship that is probably happier than theirs will ever be.
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  #2491    
Old March 24th, 2012 (05:42 AM).
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I think if the hints are real and not misinterpretations then it's beautiful that kid's shows have gay characters. My mom's gaydar certainly does go off more the more she sees Rainbow Dash episodes. ^_^
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Old March 24th, 2012 (08:37 AM).
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People everywhere just have their gaydar turned up at the moment, and if they're not okay with gay people it's just so they can be "on the watch" for gayness slipping its way in secretly to the children's minds.

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Old March 24th, 2012 (12:40 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Scarf:
People everywhere just have their gaydar turned up at the moment...
There's a dial for that???
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Old March 24th, 2012 (01:37 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Scarf:
People everywhere just have their gaydar turned up at the moment, and if they're not okay with gay people it's just so they can be "on the watch" for gayness slipping its way in secretly to the children's minds.

I don't really have a problem with that it's like in kid's shows, it's the way it's in, it's sort of mocked. I'm just butting in this convo so I don't know if what I'm saying makes sense in regards to the topic hahah but I saw the pics and wanted to say it anyway.
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Old March 24th, 2012 (01:46 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Shining Raichu:
And as we all know, bickering is a gateway activity; it may lead to harder stuff like girly slap-fights or homoeroticism :P

Screw those wingnuts, if they can find a way to ruin Sesame Street they can find a way to ruin anything - and it's never for lack of trying when they can't. But I will fight them to the death on this one; Bert and Ernie are in a committed relationship that is probably happier than theirs will ever be.
Sesame Street has said specifically that they are puppets and therefore cannot have a sexual attraction towards either men or women, as none of the puppets are men or women themselves.

Quote:
Bert and Ernie are best friends. They were created to teach preschoolers that people can be good friends with those who are very different from themselves. Even though they are identified as male characters and possess many human traits and characteristics... they remain puppets, and do not have a sexual orientation.
Just saying. :P Have you seen the spoof in Avenue Q of them?
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Old March 24th, 2012 (03:45 PM).
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Quote originally posted by U_Flame:
What do you guys think? Is it a good idea for a kid's show to have homosexuality?
I'd much rather have something gay shoved down my throat if it means the show isn't completely regurgitated content.

I think it's better than a good idea, because not only does it introduce diversity but also builds acceptance for those diverse characteristics at young ages where it's most effective by far. I think it's pretty clear to all of us that hatred and bigotry are spawns of ignorance and anyone who has a problem with diverse traits in media are only afraid to combat their own inner turmoil and need to stop hindering decent human beings.

*hasn't read everyones reply to this, sorry if I'm trite*
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Old March 24th, 2012 (04:29 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Scarf:

What I'm interested to know is whether it's ever explicitly stated that that Teletubby is male. Because it seems to me that could just be a girl carrying a purse. :/

Quote originally posted by Toujours:


Sesame Street has said specifically that they are puppets and therefore cannot have a sexual attraction towards either men or women, as none of the puppets are men or women themselves.
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Old March 25th, 2012 (02:15 AM).
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I, for one, firmly believe Bert and Ernie are gay. Personally, I'm cool with it. My family on the other hand...
Quote originally posted by U_Flame:
My mom's gaydar certainly does go off more the more she sees Rainbow Dash episodes.
Is it just me or does everyone think Rainbow Dash is a lesbian? A lot of my friends think she is, and that's the reason why my sister doesn't let her kids watch My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. It's certainly ridiculous. SHE'S A FREAKIN' TOMBOY! Although there's that one wingboner incident...

Personally, I'm fine with a kids' cartoon show having homosexual characters. As long as the romance is done as most kids' shows handle that, I could honestly care less.
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Old March 25th, 2012 (06:13 AM).
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It kind of reminds me of a behind-the-scenes interview thing I watched about Grey's Anatomy one time. There is a lesbian couple on that show, and basically they apparently went to GLAAD and asked about the best way to approach such a relationship on a TV show, and they replied "treat it like you would treat any other relationship on the show" and that's exactly what they did. Callie and Arizona are just a couple. They met the same way everybody else does and they had the same fights; and barely anybody even batted an eyelid about the whole thing. It wasn't until Callie's parents came into the picture and did the whole "RAWR YOU CANT BE A LESBIAN LETS PRAY AWAY THE GAY" thing that you even remembered they were a same-sex couple. It was just so normal.

I think that's the way to approach it on children's television too. If you make a big deal about it like "Hey kids, we're two men and we are in love the same way your Mommy and Daddy are in love, and that's OK" - then that really is forcing something down their throat - but if you just have two men in a romance going about it the same way a man and a woman would and don't say a word about it, then it just normalises it for them. It puts it into their range of experience and knowledge without them even realising it's happening and then when they grow up and start socialising with other people, sexuality really isn't a big deal.
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Old March 25th, 2012 (06:46 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Game Over1375:
Is it just me or does everyone think Rainbow Dash is a lesbian? A lot of my friends think she is, and that's the reason why my sister doesn't let her kids watch My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic.
Really?

Rainbow Dash's sexuality, whatever it may be, is completely irrelevant to the show. So, really, your sister is not letting her kids watch the show because there is a confident female character in it.

We certainly wouldn't want our female kids to grow up as confident, now would we? That would be so terrible!

Anyway, that's absurd to begin with. As I said Rainbow Dash's sexuality is never shown and is never even relevant to anything. So I imagine your sister must be one of those crazy people who think that sexuality is passed on like a disease, and not just passed on by seeing homosexual acts, but by just being exposed to a character that stereotypically acts somewhat like a homosexual is portrayed to act.

How can anybody think such ridiculous things?
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