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  #2726    
Old May 9th, 2012 (8:00 AM).
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If anyone has a spare 10 minute they should probably watch this video. Shows exactly why gay marriage needs to be allowed.

(p.s. keep tissues nearby)
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  #2727    
Old May 9th, 2012 (8:07 AM). Edited May 9th, 2012 by Shining Raichu.
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There are no words. I just... oh god I'm in tears, I hate you. When it showed footage of them together and happy, it just made me feel sick. Shane... he has all that footage of them laughing together and if I had to sit there and watch something I could never have again, it might make me suicidal. That was just too much.

EDIT: I can't sleep. I need to write a cathartic letter to Tom's family so that I can feel like I've processed this, then I might be able to. So bear with me:


Dear Bridegroom family,

You are disgusting. There is not one redeeming quality about who you are or what you do. You are the most filthy, wretched, evil little *******s that I have ever had the displeasure of hearing about, and I hope you die. I hope you all die in the slowest and most painful way that the universe can provide. I want you to whimper; I want you to feel every last bit of torment you put Shane through as the last of the life is drained from your worthless bodies.

I am an atheist, yet you make me want to believe in Heaven so that you can all go to Hell. That way you can continue to feel the pain searing through every part of you, without relief, for the rest of eternity.

Love,
Andy.
P.S. Sex with men is amazing. Mrs Bridegroom, I'm sure you know what I'm talking about, but the rest of you boys are seriously missing out.


OK now I feel better . I may regret this in the morning, but right now that is exactly how I feel and I make no apology for it. People like those don't deserve to exist.
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  #2728    
Old May 9th, 2012 (12:39 PM).
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All my fellow Americans who are going to be 18 by November better get themselves registered to vote so they can vote for Obama who has just come out in full presidential mode in support of gay marriage. [read article] [thread over in OC]


On QK's question about ever feeling like gay couples are normal and straight couples are weird: I've seen a lot of bad straight couples, but then that's what I've seen, like, 95% of the time. I've noticed that same-sex couples seem a bit insular though. Like, more head-in-the-clouds and also the kind where people have compromised the things they like to do in order to feel like they're closer to their partners. I dunno, maybe that happens just as often in straight relationships, but I do get the feeling that with straight couples it's already mostly a given that they're going to have different tastes in a lot of areas.
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  #2729    
Old May 9th, 2012 (12:52 PM).
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Originally Posted by Scarf View Post
All my fellow Americans who are going to be 18 by November better get themselves registered to vote so they can vote for Obama who has just come out in full presidential mode in support of gay marriage. [read article] [thread over in OC]
I know it's great that he's saying he supports it, but actions speak louder than words. I'd rather him do something about it rather than just sit back and comment after people's lives were broken yesterday in North Carolina...
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  #2730    
Old May 9th, 2012 (1:07 PM).
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That video is awful. That poor poor man. I was close to tears. He deserved to marry Tom. Tom's family are awful awful people.

I was thinking today. Now it doesn't seem present here, and not so much in this generation but has anyone else noticed the transphobia within the LGB sphere?
Personally gay marriage is not an important issue to me, yes, gays deserve equal marriage rights but here's something major - Trans people deserve the right to be legally recognised as the gender they identify as, however in 13 states the right to recognition is illegal. In Texas a trans female was given a ticket for going into a womans bathroom. Why? A "real" woman didn't like it.
Tell me it's just me but it seems the focus is always on GAY rights, not the rights of other people, they're human beings and they deserve it just as much. They can't marry either, they can't get jobs, many trans people are in poverty merely because their ID cards and so on say the opposite gender to what they are.

Take Thailand for example, "ladyboys" are shunned in society, while the media accepts them they are always the comedy element in a show, often pushed into prostitution and cabaret, that's not the life they want. Many of them have University degrees but they can't get jobs because they're not recognised as women. If these people had ID which said female then the quality of life they have would be greatly improved.

These are just my thoughts, what do you think?
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  #2731    
Old May 9th, 2012 (1:16 PM).
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Originally Posted by ~Kawaii~ View Post
Tell me it's just me but it seems the focus is always on GAY rights, not the rights of other people, they're human beings and they deserve it just as much. They can't marry either, they can't get jobs, many trans people are in poverty merely because their ID cards and so on say the opposite gender to what they are.

Take Thailand for example, "ladyboys" are shunned in society, while the media accepts them they are always the comedy element in a show, often pushed into prostitution and cabaret, that's not the life they want. Many of them have University degrees but they can't get jobs because they're not recognised as women. If these people had ID which said female then the quality of life they have would be greatly improved.

These are just my thoughts, what do you think?
I don't really understand, do women have a higher chance of employment than men? o.O

As far as I know, in the UK, you don't have to state your gender to get a job. So you are probably perceived as whatever you present yourself as in the interview. Being such a small minority I don't know how widespread this is, I've only ever seen one (noticable) transgender person working in a café before.

The thing is, without taking the step with gay rights then even smaller minorities don't stand much of a chance of similar rights.

Also, I was under the impression trans people can marry as long as their birth certificates say opposite genders to their spouse - so does that mean a gay-trans man can get married? o.o idk.
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  #2732    
Old May 9th, 2012 (1:16 PM). Edited May 9th, 2012 by Oryx.
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Re: Bathrooms...I just don't get it. I really don't see why unisex bathrooms can't be a thing. Like look at a women's bathroom.



Stalls. The worst thing that would happen is that someone would HEAR SOMEONE OF THE OPPOSITE SEX USING THE BATHROOM. Why are people so opposed to unisex bathrooms?! I just don't get it.

I feel like the fight for trans rights is tough because it's almost an entirely different fight altogether. While it deserves just as much support as gay marriage, it requires different laws and different protests and paying attention to different pieces of legislature, etc.

Edit: Saw this on Facebook and wanted to share.

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  #2733    
Old May 9th, 2012 (1:21 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwiftSign View Post


I don't really understand, do women have a higher chance of employment than men? o.O

As far as I know, in the UK, you don't have to state your gender to get a job. So you are probably perceived as whatever you present yourself as in the interview. Being such a small minority I don't know how widespread this is, I've only ever seen one (noticable) transgender person working in a café before.
Haha, no, but in Thailand (and many other countries) you do have to present your gender at interviews - Beautiful women apply and the cards say male, they're not going to hire you because it's a hassle. The UK is good on trans rights!

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Originally Posted by SwiftSign View Post
The thing is, without taking the step with gay rights then even smaller minorities don't stand much of a chance of similar rights.

I appreciate that, but it does seem the gay aspect is the focus, the other parts of the spectrum seem to me to be ignored.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SwiftSign View Post
Also, I was under the impression trans people can marry as long as their birth certificates say opposite genders to their spouse - so does that mean a gay-trans man can get married? o.o idk.

Yes, trans people can theoretically marry if the birth certificate says opposite to the spouse, technically gay trans people can marry. Straight trans people can't because a lot of places have laws that forbid these records to be changed.
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  #2734    
Old May 9th, 2012 (1:43 PM).
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Originally Posted by SwiftSign View Post
I know it's great that he's saying he supports it, but actions speak louder than words. I'd rather him do something about it rather than just sit back and comment after people's lives were broken yesterday in North Carolina...
Don't ruin my moment. :P

But yes, actions do speak louder. I'm assuming that his stance now means he'll be under more pressure to put those words into actions. He'll be held to a higher standard now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Kawaii~ View Post
<rest of post omitted for shortness's sake>

These are just my thoughts, what do you think?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toujours View Post
I feel like the fight for trans rights is tough because it's almost an entirely different fight altogether. While it deserves just as much support as gay marriage, it requires different laws and different protests and paying attention to different pieces of legislature, etc.
This is the biggest problem, I think. Trans people are not the same as gay people and we don't have the kind of positive exposure in a lot of people's minds like gay people do. I think a lot of people who are only sort of okay with gay people have a hard time wrapping their head around the idea of trans people. (Heck, lots of them have a hard time wrapping their heads around the idea of bi people.) I bet a lot of these only-slightly-okay-with-gay would get all reactionary if you tried to educate them about trans people and the things we need to make society more fair and equal and that's [expletive!] because it makes some people who would otherwise support us fully take a kind of lukewarm stance.

I have seen some prejudice toward trans people from the LGB crowd (though mostly the G), but not as outward actions or anything, but more in assumptions and all of that kind of thing. Like, more of a lack of understanding and sympathy, and sometimes a kind of superiority kind of attitude like "you trans people just hold on and stop getting in the way of our gay rights" although never quite that direct or mean.


Also, Toujours, that is a telling infographic right there.
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  #2735    
Old May 9th, 2012 (6:20 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwiftSign View Post

I know it's great that he's saying he supports it, but actions speak louder than words. I'd rather him do something about it rather than just sit back and comment after people's lives were broken yesterday in North Carolina...
What do you expect him to do? The President can't unilaterally change the laws of the nation. Without Congress, the President can't do anything but talk. And even if he said something prior to Amendment 1 being passed, I doubt that would have swayed any votes. 61-39 is still a pretty steep margin. . .
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  #2736    
Old May 10th, 2012 (1:04 AM).
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As far as the Obama thing is concerned, I think he is doing an incredibly smart thing, choosing his moment to come out in favour of same-sex marriage. Recent polling showed that 50% of Americans now support same-sex marriage, and actual opposition to the concept has fallen 15% in the last decade. When you consider the linear progression we've made toward support for same-sex marriage, the assumption would follow that these numbers will continue to turn in our favour rather than away from it. So in an attempt to win the Presidency next four years, this was the perfect time to announce his position shift because he may end up getting more votes from being in favour of gay marriage than being publicly against it. It's also far enough from the election that he can escape suspicion that it's a campaign tactic.

I love this, I think it's the smartest thing he could have done, and it's only good for us, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarf
"you trans people just hold on and stop getting in the way of our gay rights"
Yeah, damn you trans people. GTFO.

......wait. In what way do trans people get in the way of gay rights? I've never heard this before and I honestly can't fathom how trans people are holding the gays back lol
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  #2737    
Old May 10th, 2012 (9:39 AM).
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Like I've said, I don't hear this said overtly, but look at what was said just in this thread:

Quote:
The thing is, without taking the step with gay rights then even smaller minorities don't stand much of a chance of similar rights.
That kind of sounds like "We have to have gay rights before we can have other minority rights." Just in general it says that gay rights are important (and I don't dispute this, don't think there's many in here who would) but if I were to reword it to be about trans rights I wonder how many people would agree with it even though gay and trans people should both have equal rights.

"The thing is, without taking the step with trans rights then larger minorities don't stand much of a chance of similar rights."

You could argue whether this is true, but it just sounds like a justification. Not my rewording. I mean the original statement.

I'm going to call upon my 20th century history knowledge and say that it reminds me of the civil rights movement in America where you'd have groups organizing for equal rights for black people and black women were told to serve coffee. And in some cases it was done consciously because they feared that if you "went too far" it would hurt the "primary" focus of the movement.
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  #2738    
Old May 10th, 2012 (10:19 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarf View Post
Like I've said, I don't hear this said overtly, but look at what was said just in this thread:

That kind of sounds like "We have to have gay rights before we can have other minority rights." Just in general it says that gay rights are important (and I don't dispute this, don't think there's many in here who would) but if I were to reword it to be about trans rights I wonder how many people would agree with it even though gay and trans people should both have equal rights.

"The thing is, without taking the step with trans rights then larger minorities don't stand much of a chance of similar rights."

You could argue whether this is true, but it just sounds like a justification. Not my rewording. I mean the original statement.

I'm going to call upon my 20th century history knowledge and say that it reminds me of the civil rights movement in America where you'd have groups organizing for equal rights for black people and black women were told to serve coffee. And in some cases it was done consciously because they feared that if you "went too far" it would hurt the "primary" focus of the movement.
That seems to be me.

I'm not saying we have to have gay right before anything, I'm saying it's a logical step in a direction that will ultimately make it easier for trans people to gain similar rights. After all, if gay marriage is permitted then all trans people can get married, no? It's a step in a right direction.

Also I have no idea what your analogy has in relation to it.
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Old May 10th, 2012 (1:31 PM).
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Earlier my mom was talking about how there should be different words for same-sex spouses rather than husband and wife, so there's no confusion. I told her when a girl says she has a wife, it should be pretty clear, but she thought it wasn't because she once met a girl who referred to her partner as "husband," and then my mom felt embarrassed when she met the husband that she had asked so many questions about her assuming she was a man. I can understand that being an awkward situation, but yeah.. I dunno. It seems that most people just say husband or wife or partner or something, and personally I don't think that there's a need for new words, but Mom seems to think so, so .... lol. What do you think about that? :P
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  #2740    
Old May 10th, 2012 (4:14 PM).
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Welcome, please await someone to disperse the new member crown. Anyway, any special reason for joining?
Just thought it would be a good place to join for me
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  #2741    
Old May 10th, 2012 (5:32 PM).
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Hey there CoraCora, welcome to the group! I shall add your name to the list now . Generally though, in Other Clubs you're not meant to just post "I'd like to join" without saying something that contributes to the discussion - even if that just means telling us a little about yourself.

So, please, tell us about yourself! Are you gay, bi, trans, something else? or are you questioning what you are? Or maybe you know someone who is in the LGBT community and want to show your support? Give us a bit of an insight into yourself :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by voltianqueen
Earlier my mom was talking about how there should be different words for same-sex spouses rather than husband and wife, so there's no confusion. I told her when a girl says she has a wife, it should be pretty clear, but she thought it wasn't because she once met a girl who referred to her partner as "husband," and then my mom felt embarrassed when she met the husband that she had asked so many questions about her assuming she was a man. I can understand that being an awkward situation, but yeah.. I dunno. It seems that most people just say husband or wife or partner or something, and personally I don't think that there's a need for new words, but Mom seems to think so, so .... lol. What do you think about that?
We don't need to go inventing new words. 'Husband' and 'wife' are what we should be called, because when you get married that's what you become. It's as simple as that. The reason we can't have different words is because that implies a separation between homosexual and heterosexual couples - and separate is not equal. Different words come with different connotations. If we allow society to believe that we are different in any way from just any regular hetero couple, then we might as well just call the whole thing off, because what was it all for? We are fighting for marriage, not a separate quarantined version for marriage.

Not to mention the confusion that would cause on official forms. When you're filling out details for something like your emergency contact and you have to tick a box indicating their relation to you, the option will say "Husband/Wife" - so what would we tick? 'Friend'? 'Partner'? It's insulting. When I get married, I'm going to refer to my husband as exactly that - regardless of what the official term might be.



@Scarf/Swiftsign - here's the way I see it. There are two ways people fight for equal rights: there is the way SwiftSign fights, which is essentially a results-based strategy where we do what needs to be done to get the rights for everybody as quickly as we can. This is my attitude as well; I can see that society is only just becoming OK with gay people and I can see things happening which will in the end result in everybody getting equal rights (including trans people, since the rights gay people get could only logically be extrapolated to them). The good part about this type of fighting is that it's safe. We're not rocking the boat; we're doing what we have to do and it's fairly likely that one way or the other, in the end it's going to run smoothly. The bad part about it is that it could be seen as 'settling' for less than the community as a whole deserves because while everybody shares in the equal rights, it's only the gay people that get to experience the shift in public attitude that comes along with it.

Then there's Scarf's way, which basically refuses to settle. It's a more indignant and aggressive approach which refuses to take anybody's crap and doesn't leave anybody behind. It's arguably the better and more noble way to think because after all, we all deserve equality and why should we have to follow what society thinks is right in order to achieve what is actually right? But the downside to it is that it is way more risky because if we come on too strong to the general public then we run the risk of alienating them, because trying to change their attitudes toward everything at once is more likely to spook them and get them off our side. In the end it's a choice between reality and idealism. Not everybody is willing to be enough of a risk-taker to adopt the ideal.
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  #2742    
Old May 10th, 2012 (6:12 PM).
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Oh my bad. Not sure what I am. But I did recently bleach my hair due to hating the color and style it was before. I have been wearing unisex shirts and girl pants for over a year since boy pants just seem ugh.... I like both boys and girls but more into it when girls are more like the boys and boys are like the girls. Not sure if that makes much sense. Guess i'm odd.
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  #2743    
Old May 10th, 2012 (9:36 PM).
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Welcome Cora! :D (Love that we're getting so many new people lately.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoraCoraNekaku View Post
I like both boys and girls but more into it when girls are more like the boys and boys are like the girls. Not sure if that makes much sense. Guess i'm odd.
Nah, that's not weird at all. I'm more or less the same way, and I know of at least one other person in the club who is.
  #2744    
Old May 10th, 2012 (9:37 PM).
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Hello all, again.
I have some thing to ask you guys. Back in Febuary I was going in a phase and really wasn't acting myself. I feel really regretful and all. You all where my friends when that was going down, so is it normal for this kind of stuff to go down?

Also, North Carolina politicans suck. >.>
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Old May 10th, 2012 (9:50 PM).
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Hello all, again.
I have some thing to ask you guys. Back in Febuary I was going in a phase and really wasn't acting myself. I feel really regretful and all. You all where my friends when that was going down, so is it normal for this kind of stuff to go down?

Also, North Carolina politicans suck. >.>
I think you were just too quick to jump on the bandwagon, once you saw how much support you were getting for it here. I wanted to say something at the time, but never did because I figured I'd end up offending someone. =/ (And I figured you obviously knew more about yourself than I did.)

I kinda did the same thing though, and came out to my mom as gay after only like a month, and eventually realized that I was actually bi. Now, both of my parents think I'm Gay... not sure what's gonna happen if I ever bring a girl home. rofl
  #2746    
Old May 10th, 2012 (9:52 PM).
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Normal is overrated, TwiDragon. It's never happened to me, so I can't say with any degree of certainty that it's 'normal' or 'abnormal' to go through phases where you think you're transgendered... but if I had to guess I'd say it is. I mean, it has to be a confusing thought for any young person to wonder if you were born in the right body. In any case, you have nothing to feel regretful about. We're here to help each other, no matter what the issue
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Old May 10th, 2012 (10:54 PM).
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Yeah, that is what I'm worrying about. I kind of jumped the gun to tell everyone, which was my own fault I guess.
I just don't have the same feeling as I did a few months ago. Theres no way I can say I'm "trans" or any part of the area. I'm pansexual still, but I seem to still be attracted to femminity, and girls in general.
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Old May 11th, 2012 (7:26 AM).
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I think it's normal enough to think things like that, like you might be trans or genderqueer or just to have questions. I know a few girls and one says she regularly has dreams where she's a guy and another who says she's always felt very boyish. It might feel a little embarrassing to have to reevaluate the stance you took, but that's nothing that matters. You learned more about who you are and that's gonna outweigh whatever else might come as a consequence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SwiftSign View Post
I'm not saying we have to have gay right before anything, I'm saying it's a logical step in a direction that will ultimately make it easier for trans people to gain similar rights. After all, if gay marriage is permitted then all trans people can get married, no? It's a step in a right direction.

Also I have no idea what your analogy has in relation to it.
What Andy said is sort of what I was trying to say:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shining Raichu View Post
@Scarf/Swiftsign - here's the way I see it. There are two ways people fight for equal rights: there is the way SwiftSign fights, which is essentially a results-based strategy where we do what needs to be done to get the rights for everybody as quickly as we can. This is my attitude as well; I can see that society is only just becoming OK with gay people and I can see things happening which will in the end result in everybody getting equal rights (including trans people, since the rights gay people get could only logically be extrapolated to them). The good part about this type of fighting is that it's safe. We're not rocking the boat; we're doing what we have to do and it's fairly likely that one way or the other, in the end it's going to run smoothly. The bad part about it is that it could be seen as 'settling' for less than the community as a whole deserves because while everybody shares in the equal rights, it's only the gay people that get to experience the shift in public attitude that comes along with it.

Then there's Scarf's way, which basically refuses to settle. It's a more indignant and aggressive approach which refuses to take anybody's crap and doesn't leave anybody behind. It's arguably the better and more noble way to think because after all, we all deserve equality and why should we have to follow what society thinks is right in order to achieve what is actually right? But the downside to it is that it is way more risky because if we come on too strong to the general public then we run the risk of alienating them, because trying to change their attitudes toward everything at once is more likely to spook them and get them off our side. In the end it's a choice between reality and idealism. Not everybody is willing to be enough of a risk-taker to adopt the ideal.
To clarify: this isn't entirely how I feel all the time. For sure it's how I feel when I get the sense that someone is saying something like "trans rights will follow in the wake of gay rights" because I don't think they necessarily will and I can see lots of trans issues being taken care of fairly easily if only we had the media presence/outreach that gay people have.

What I really feel is that we should be pushing further than we're comfortable with. We should be asking for everything wee deserve and then some. There's always going to be compromise with rights because close minded people are idiots. I think it's better to start from a more "extreme" place, like bargaining. It's like if you're haggling over the price of something. You say $100 and they say $200 and you'll probably end up around $150, but you don't make your first offer at $150.
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  #2749    
Old May 11th, 2012 (9:56 AM). Edited May 11th, 2012 by Magdalena~.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shining Raichu View Post
We don't need to go inventing new words. 'Husband' and 'wife' are what we should be called, because when you get married that's what you become. It's as simple as that. The reason we can't have different words is because that implies a separation between homosexual and heterosexual couples - and separate is not equal. Different words come with different connotations. If we allow society to believe that we are different in any way from just any regular hetero couple, then we might as well just call the whole thing off, because what was it all for? We are fighting for marriage, not a separate quarantined version for marriage.
This is my stance on the issue. It puzzles me that anyone would agree with Volt's mother. xD No offense of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoraCoraNekaku View Post
Oh my bad. Not sure what I am. But I did recently bleach my hair due to hating the color and style it was before. I have been wearing unisex shirts and girl pants for over a year since boy pants just seem ugh.... I like both boys and girls but more into it when girls are more like the boys and boys are like the girls. Not sure if that makes much sense. Guess i'm odd.
I wear unisex shirts and girl pants as well. And I also am attracted to androgyny, girly boys and dykey girls. You are not alone. ^^ It's complicated, but I consider myself both (MTF) transsexual or gender fluid, and demisexual and pansexual. But that's what this club is for--finding your right. Or at least I think it is, at least for people who are new to this community. xD

And of course, welcome to the club! :D Here's your new member crown:

Enjoy it while it lasts because I'm stealing it back at the end of the day and enjoy the happyfuntime here in the Rainbow Connection!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwiDragon View Post
Hello all, again.
I have some thing to ask you guys. Back in Febuary I was going in a phase and really wasn't acting myself. I feel really regretful and all. You all where my friends when that was going down, so is it normal for this kind of stuff to go down?
Yes. Very normal. When I first found out I was trans, I acted more girly than I actually was and acted like I wanted or disliked certain things before later I found out I didn't. The difference being I am actually trans. But that's okay, really. Just be whoever you wanna be. ^^
Also to avoid even more quotes all over the place, I'll just say I agree with Scarf as far as what she said about you. o3o

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarf View Post
To clarify: this isn't entirely how I feel all the time. For sure it's how I feel when I get the sense that someone is saying something like "trans rights will follow in the wake of gay rights" because I don't think they necessarily will and I can see lots of trans issues being taken care of fairly easily if only we had the media presence/outreach that gay people have.
This is kind of how I feel; I don't think most, or at least a lot, of people who already have their rights are going to go back and help trans people get their rights. I mean let's be honest--there are transphobic LBG-folk, trans-discriminating LGB-folk, and even then LGB-folk who seem to have no idea we exist at all. I know the people in this club aren't like this, and I'm not accusing anyone of anything, because this is the Internet and you're exponentially more likely to find trans people on the Internet, and also here it's easier to communicate and read things people have already said. However, in the real world, most people don't actively support trans people and I don't see how that's going to change once gay people have all their rights in place. I feel they would just go back to their lives.

That's not saying I don't support Andy/SwiftSign's approach to gaining equality--I'm just not at all willing to believe that trans equality will follow immediately behind it.
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It lies still in the same pose for days in its web,
waiting for its unsuspecting prey to wander close.

Abilities: Swarm or Insomnia or Sniper
Moves: String Shot, Scary Face, Shadow Sneak, Pin Missile
Locations: Routes 2, 30, 31, 37 (night)
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jp: イトマル (Itomaru)
de: Webarak
fr: Mimigal
ko: 페이검 (Pe'igǒm)
  #2750    
Old May 11th, 2012 (10:52 AM). Edited May 11th, 2012 by Alice.
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This. Is. AMAZING. Just... incredible.

I love the guy behind her's reaction.
 
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