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  #2826    
Old June 5th, 2012 (1:10 PM). Edited June 6th, 2012 by Patatas Fritas.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shining Raichu View Post
What I would say is why should people have to prove that they're trans? Why do people even need to be trans to change their gender? It would even help with same-sex marriage if this were to be implemented in other countries. If two men wanted to get married, one would just have to change his gender to female and BAM. I mean, it's not an endgame solution, but it's certainly a good temporary band-aid.
I'm sorry what? You don't mean that right?

I agree with the whole why should people need to prove they're trans if you're psychologically sane you should know what you identify as. Perhaps some psychiatric assessment is necessary so you can be sure, but generally they know. If only that was implemented all over the world!

But as for the whole same sex marriage thing. If civil marriage isn't allowed it's unlikely gender identity laws would be in place either, and if they are chances are they'd involve one of the men having gender reassignment surgery and I doubt either party want that and it's ridiculous that non-trans people should just be able to change their gender on a whim. If the government doesn't want to give same sex couples the right to marry they're not going to let them change their gender for that purpose, especially not without surgery. I'm sure the laws are stricter than what that suggests.

Edit: I found an interesting article! http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/06/06/media-ignores-rash-of-assaults-on-transgender-women.html
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  #2827    
Old June 6th, 2012 (4:30 AM).
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Originally Posted by Magdalena~ View Post
Imo there's no way to actually "prove" that you're trans.[...]
(i just felt like i had to comment on this statement) there is a way though, through brain scans. apparently, transsexuals have some differences in their brains compared to people who are comfortable with their sex and gender (http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan.html).
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  #2828    
Old June 6th, 2012 (5:11 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Kawaii~ View Post
But as for the whole same sex marriage thing. If civil marriage isn't allowed it's unlikely gender identity laws would be in place either, and if they are chances are they'd involve one of the men having gender reassignment surgery and I doubt either party want that. If the government doesn't want to give same sex couples the right to marry they're not going to let them change their gender for that purpose, especially not without surgery. I'm sure the laws are stricter than what that suggests.
I'm not suggesting it's something that would ever actually happen, just saying that hypothetically it would be a cool loophole in the law if it did lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Kawaii~
and it's ridiculous that non-trans people should just be able to change their gender on a whim.
Why? To be perfectly honest, I think complete legal gender fluidity would be fantastic. What is the issue with anybody being able to legally change their gender?
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  #2829    
Old June 6th, 2012 (5:15 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shining Raichu View Post
Why? To be perfectly honest, I think complete legal gender fluidity would be fantastic. What is the issue with anybody being able to legally change their gender?
The issue with it is that it shouldn't be something anyone can do, consider all the problems that could arise from it. If they legally change their gender they get all the rights of that gender, lower retirement age for women in many cases, and so on, people could change their gender to take advantage of those rights. If laws and rights for men and women where exactly the same I'd be all for it, but until then it's a terrible idea.
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  #2830    
Old June 6th, 2012 (6:11 AM).
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Well could that not be the catalyst for the change to equality between men and women? If you have a bunch of men saying on paper that they're women to take advantage of such things, then that would just force governments to rethink the legal apartheid they've set between the genders.
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  #2831    
Old June 6th, 2012 (6:27 AM).
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Really it would be best if identity cards just removed 'gender' all together, thus eliminating problems...
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  #2832    
Old June 6th, 2012 (4:07 PM). Edited June 6th, 2012 by Magdalena~.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shining Raichu View Post
If two men wanted to get married, one would just have to change his gender to female and BAM.
LOL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Briar View Post
(i just felt like i had to comment on this statement) there is a way though, through brain scans. apparently, transsexuals have some differences in their brains compared to people who are comfortable with their sex and gender (http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan.html).
Trans rights efforts should work towards encouraging equality. Using brain scans to prove someone is trans is basically forcing comformity. That is, if your brain isn't the same shape as most trans people, no matter how much discomfort you feel with the way your body is, you're off the bus--deal with it. In my opinion, this is not a solution even remotely.
Also this: "But the region is too small to scan in a living person so differences have only been picked up at post-mortem." Not to mention, if the area is that small, even if we could spot the difference in a living person, it's highly likely someone could have "a difference from the rest of the population" that is difficult to spot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shining Raichu View Post
Well could that not be the catalyst for the change to equality between men and women? If you have a bunch of men saying on paper that they're women to take advantage of such things, then that would just force governments to rethink the legal apartheid they've set between the genders.
I quite like this idea. Apartheid is never a good thing if you ask me. Let's just hope it doesn't get too chaotic, you know? xD
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwiftSign View Post
Really it would be best if identity cards just removed 'gender' all together, thus eliminating problems...
Agreed.
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  #2833    
Old June 6th, 2012 (4:47 PM).
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Originally Posted by NP View Post
ANOTHER COMIC POST.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NP View Post

So, this is a follow-up for the Batman is gay post.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/slideshow/ALeqM5hcvS_AxPssw3d6pmnmTTiSdOYJ9A?docId=4c157e1b7a914a25a5c732922ea17273&index=0
It is...
Spoiler:
Alan Scott! The alter ego of the Green Lantern.


....So...yes. Okay you really did it. Congrats DC.

Spoiler:
DC's Justification- The Green Lantern had a gay son named Obsidian, and DC has started sort of a restart comic for our superheroes. (The heroes are much younger in these.) So, obviously Scott's son does not exist in this canon. DC was sad to lose this positive gay character so they made Alan Scott gay to fill that void...
I feel like I just read part of a gay doujinshi or something.
I was not aware that regular comics went beyond the "I JUST SAVED THE DAY, KISS ME!!" act and even had gay characters to boot. . . . Perhaps I should start reading comics? xD

@Brony article - *sigh* the more I read about this show the less stupid it sounds. I swear, if I become a brony I'm going to murder you all.
"Clop" most likely isn't something that I'd get into. Not because they're ponies, but probably because they're A) mainly lesbians and B) the art style doesn't . . . *ahem* do much for me.

@Shining Raichu - Being able to legally change your gender on a whim? . . . Um . . . okay, I guess I could say that I'm a person that thinks that your "legal" gender should be constituted by what parts that you're composed of. Although . . . I'm not saying that one shouldn't be allowed to change their gender; I'm all for Trans people being free to do so. But . . . I dunno, I guess having it so anyone can freely "change" their gender at will seems a bit odd. Or something. :/ . . . //y'knowwhat?WhateverforgetIsaidanythinglolx3

@Show video trailer thingy - When they say pre-op trans woman do they mean that she's still a guy? Because otherwise I am confused on how she could have a child. The video won't load for me and I only skimmed the top half of the article. //lazy I know. xP
//still sometimes confused on . . . um, "trans terminology" or whatever. lol

EDIT: bwabwabwa, not sure if I worded all of that right but no offense intended on any of it kthxbai
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  #2834    
Old June 6th, 2012 (10:17 PM).
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Hey, I am fairly new to the PC, I didn't know there was an LGBT club until now. I'd like to join.

I have a little definition discrepancy question.

SO, I know pansexuality is "sexual attraction, sexual desire, romantic love, or emotional attraction toward persons of all gender identities and biological sexes."

I just don't understand why for instance, a straight person would date someone of the same gender even if they were not sexually attracted. Or the converse, why a gay person would date the opposite sex. (Not including bisexual individuals since they are attracted to both sexes, or asexual since they are not sexually attracted to either gender.) It sort of makes it appear like it was a "choice". I know some may argue, you can't help who you love, So I arrive to this question:

Do you think you can be in love (romantically) with someone if you are absolutely not attracted to his or her gender? What specific things differentiate romantic love and a close platonic friendship for you? Do you think pansexuality is a choice and/or fad for those who are only sexually attracted to one gender?

Notice that the first two questions are about you, instead of generalizations of people.
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  #2835    
Old June 7th, 2012 (12:28 AM). Edited June 7th, 2012 by YungKnowledge.
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I was checking my facebook and found this link. Its basically a 14-year-old talk show host saying .‘President Obama is making kids gay’ I'm not that shocked I knew people from high school that and who are still like that. I just wonder you all felt about this.
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  #2836    
Old June 7th, 2012 (6:26 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YungKnowledge View Post
I was checking my facebook and found this link. Its basically a 14-year-old talk show host saying .‘President Obama is making kids gay’ I'm not that shocked I knew people from high school that and who are still like that. I just wonder you all felt about this.
Even if Obama is influencing sexuality, which I highly doubt (because I believe sexuality is set in stone very early like psychosexual development), at least he is unlike this child's parents who have raised a hate mongering imbecile. Such a shame. Parents like his are only extending the amount of time we need to wait for these feeble minded fools to die out so we can move on.
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  #2837    
Old June 7th, 2012 (1:25 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Illuminaughty View Post
SO, I know pansexuality is "sexual attraction, sexual desire, romantic love, or emotional attraction toward persons of all gender identities and biological sexes."

I just don't understand why for instance, a straight person would date someone of the same gender even if they were not sexually attracted. Or the converse, why a gay person would date the opposite sex. (Not including bisexual individuals since they are attracted to both sexes, or asexual since they are not sexually attracted to either gender.) It sort of makes it appear like it was a "choice". I know some may argue, you can't help who you love, So I arrive to this question:
Well, a straight person wouldn't generally date someone of the same gender because they're straight, not pansexual. I'm not sure I understand your question as it is worded.

The main idea of pansexuality is that your attraction isn't based on the sex or gender expression of a person (compared to bisexuality in which a person is generally attracted to "male" and "female" but nothing else).

If you're asking how romantic attraction without sexual attraction works then, well, I can't really help you understand it much better.
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  #2838    
Old June 7th, 2012 (3:50 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarf View Post
Well, a straight person wouldn't generally date someone of the same gender because they're straight, not pansexual. I'm not sure I understand your question as it is worded.

The main idea of pansexuality is that your attraction isn't based on the sex or gender expression of a person (compared to bisexuality in which a person is generally attracted to "male" and "female" but nothing else).

If you're asking how romantic attraction without sexual attraction works then, well, I can't really help you understand it much better.
I guess to word it better. Can a person without sexual attraction to a gender be romantically attracted to someone?
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  #2839    
Old June 7th, 2012 (4:41 PM).
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I'd say yes. I felt romantic attraction toward guys way before I noticed any sexual attraction toward them.
  #2840    
Old June 7th, 2012 (5:19 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuilavaKing View Post
I'd say yes. I felt romantic attraction toward guys way before I noticed any sexual attraction toward them.
I can attest to this exact same thing.
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  #2841    
Old June 7th, 2012 (5:22 PM). Edited June 7th, 2012 by Illuminaughty.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarf View Post
Well, a straight person wouldn't generally date someone of the same gender because they're straight, not pansexual. I'm not sure I understand your question as it is worded.

The main idea of pansexuality is that your attraction isn't based on the sex or gender expression of a person (compared to bisexuality in which a person is generally attracted to "male" and "female" but nothing else).

If you're asking how romantic attraction without sexual attraction works then, well, I can't really help you understand it much better.
I guess to word it better. Can a person without sexual attraction to a gender be romantically attracted to someone of that gender?

Rather than saying "straight", I will say a person who is sexually attracted to the opposite sex, but not sexually attracted to the same-sex, why would that person be romantically involved with someone of the same-sex knowing that they are not sexually attracted. Also if this person is attracted to that person's personality, but not their gender, wouldn't that be friendship?


What distinguishes being in love and a friendship?

I don't know why half of the post posted before, lol.

@ the responses, but you did have an innate sexual attraction toward the same sex though, it's not the same as someone who is dating someone that they know they are not sexually attracted to based on gender.
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  #2842    
Old June 7th, 2012 (10:24 PM).
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Welcome, Illuminaughty!

To go against the grain here, I don't think it's possible for people with sexual attraction based on gender to fall in love with somebody outside of that gender. Well, I won't say "not possible", because stranger things have happened, but I think it's highly unlikely to form a romantic attachment to somebody without a sexual element.

Sex (or sexual attraction) and the chemical reactions therein are the the variable between a friendship and a romantic relationship. Sex provides the intimacy needed to extend the relationship into that paradigm. I can't speak for everybody, but I know that personally it would be impossible for me to romantically link myself with a woman.

None of this applies to pansexuality, though.
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  #2843    
Old June 8th, 2012 (5:49 AM).
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I think it depends what you mean by 'not sexually attracted'.

If you are sexually repulsed from that gender, then I think a romantic link further than a good friendship is unlikely to form - but if you're simply indifferent then I don't see why it couldn't happen, would just be a slightly different 'normal' relationship.

Personally I think 'pansexual' is a total misnomer anyway, since there is apparently nothing sexual about it.
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  #2844    
Old June 8th, 2012 (9:44 AM).
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Wait, what? What isn't sexual about pansexuality? It's not that different from, say, heterosexuality wherein a straight person can form romantic and sexual attraction. It's just a matter of which group of people they can be attracted to.

@ Andy: of course you wouldn't form a romantic attraction to a woman. You like men.
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Old June 8th, 2012 (10:16 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarf View Post
Wait, what? What isn't sexual about pansexuality? It's not that different from, say, heterosexuality wherein a straight person can form romantic and sexual attraction. It's just a matter of which group of people they can be attracted to.

@ Andy: of course you wouldn't form a romantic attraction to a woman. You like men.
Well considering bisexual covers almost every single possible variant, bar ambiguous genitals, pansexual has no other role. People often phrase it as 'falling for the person' rather than gender/attractiveness which to me doesn't make it sexual.

To argue it is sexual makes it identical to bisexual in my mind - picking them apart is just extra labelling for no real cause.

I'm pretty sure Hetero/Homo/Bi-sexuals aren't simply sexually attracted to boobs and bits, you can be sexually attracted to people just from their face or voice or whatever. Therefore... pansexual is just splitting hairs.
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  #2846    
Old June 8th, 2012 (12:27 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwiftSign View Post


Well considering bisexual covers almost every single possible variant, bar ambiguous genitals, pansexual has no other role.
Transsexual people (non-op/pre-op) generally have the genitals of the opposite gender. As far as sexual attraction, a girl with a penis is simply not the same thing as a girl with a vagina and a boy with a vagina is not the same thing as a boy with a penis. This is simply how it is.
Genderqueer people have a gender identity that no one who literally fits the term "bisexual" could possibly be attracted to. Bisexual people by definition are attracted to girls and boys; not people of ambiguous gender or no gender.
I'm not going to go too deeply into intersex since I know comparatively little on that matter, but you mentioned it yourself, contradicting your own point.

And yes, like Scarf said, pansexuality is perfect sexual. It's . . . a sexuality, after all. :x


Quote:
Originally Posted by SwiftSign View Post
I'm pretty sure Hetero/Homo/Bi-sexuals aren't simply sexually attracted to boobs and bits, you can be sexually attracted to people just from their face or voice or whatever. Therefore... pansexual is just splitting hairs.
Seems like a non sequitur. I have no idea how "therefore" works there. Pansexuality is a sexuality and does not depend on the definition of homo/hetero/bisexuality because it's a totally separate entity.
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It lies still in the same pose for days in its web,
waiting for its unsuspecting prey to wander close.

Abilities: Swarm or Insomnia or Sniper
Moves: String Shot, Scary Face, Shadow Sneak, Pin Missile
Locations: Routes 2, 30, 31, 37 (night)
Cry
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jp: イトマル (Itomaru)
de: Webarak
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  #2847    
Old June 8th, 2012 (3:27 PM).
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I guess I would just like to amend the definition of pansexuality, it's just the one portion that makes the definition a bit skeptical.

It should not be, sexual and/or romantic attraction to all gender identities.

The definition should be sexual attraction to all gender identities.

Those who are not sexually attracted to all gender identities, but claim to be romantically attracted to all gender identities, and thereby claiming to be pansexual, seem to either be in a phase or a fad, that kind of undermines the premise that sexual minorities have no choice in their sexuality.
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  #2848    
Old June 8th, 2012 (3:29 PM).
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Isn't that where the -romantic ending comes in instead? Homosexual and Panromantic or something?
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Old June 8th, 2012 (4:21 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Illuminaughty View Post
The definition should be sexual attraction to all gender identities.
That's what the definition is. If you're romantically attracted to all genders, then you're panromantic.
  #2850    
Old June 8th, 2012 (4:41 PM).
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I'd like to join. Just want to say I'm trans and kinda stressed out about it. Well not about it itself but the way my family is acting about it. Hope to meet new people here.
 
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