The Rainbow Connection [LGBTS Club]

[Kiyoshi the Polar Bear]

@Retro Bug - I demand to know what twenty-something heterosexual male college student in their right mind has a problem with girls being in his dorm.

No, seriously, tell me. It's like a paradox.

Religious views are one thing, and sure, respect of each other's beliefs is key. I wouldn't want anyone making me doing or watching something I'm uncomfortable with or don't believe in. But that was ridiculous. I think if I were you, I would've had a follow up discussion with my roommate if that came up. In what way does me bringing friends over impose on his religious beliefs?

Ugh, well, think on the bright side. In many ways that whole "leaving" stunt he did was better than what it could've been. He could've done something worse had he had a more violent disposition, and quite frankly, a passive aggressive bigot leave is much more preferable.

Here's to luck with any future roommates to you my sexy charming friend!

@PhantomX0990 - Y U MAK ME CRI ;;

That was beautiful. Very touching. Maybe one day you'll be back together. Maybe.

@-ty- - Good job. Hopefully she's re-thinking her mindset? Nice to see you again, btw. Welcome back.

[Scarf]

Originally Posted by -ty-

Hey guys,

I have returned to the PC, after what has been nearly 6 months, maybe more.
Not much new has happened in my life though; although, it seems like my political science courses discussions have been gearing toward some LGBTQ-related issues due to the upcoming election.

This one girl actually yelled out, "you know what, I just don't care; it's wrong because I know it's wrong," after I pointed out her flawed propositions in a ten minute long rebuttal, since she never took the time to formulate an opinion rather than restating a learned prejudice. After she said that though, I just kept my composure and smiled and said, "well, you just proved my point; ultimately you are saying something is wrong using the fact that it is wrong to prove that point. That is a circular argument, which is derived from a prejudice rather than a philosophical argument." After that, she just glared down at her desk in anguish and didn't participate in any of the class discussion for the remaining hour of class.

Oh boy, I can just tell this is going to be a great year. XD

It always makes me so sad to see young people with such prejudice. I wonder where they get it from. Older people I sort of understand because back when they first had learned about the fact that gay people existed it was probably something that no one knew much about and there were a lot of misconceptions, but today? How does someone not having a kid in their school who is gay, or a family member, or a neighbor, or at the very least see someone on television or other media?

[Shining Raichu]

Prejudice is learned. The older people who don't have the brain power to overcome their own bigotry can't help but spread it to the younger generation. The ones that allow it to stick are the ones that are weak-willed and impressionable, and should be pitied for that.

Also, it's great to have you back, ty!

[LightningAlex]

There's a lot of ways a young person can learn to prejudge other people (especially homosexuals). It's not only the parents or grandparents. Media and friends can affect someone's brain as much as stubborn parents.
For example, if someones best friend is extremely homophobic, the same's to be expected from that someone (especially someone who is weak-willed/stupid)

Also, prejudice comes with stupidity. There are a lot of stupid people out there, who think that everything they do is awesome, and anything different is wrong and should be hated. Also, it's almost impossible to make a stupid person change their mind about anything! If a stupid person believes that milk is black, you couldn't change his mind even by showing him milk... yeah, a stupid example, but you get what I'm trying to say.

I believe that at least 80% of people are as stupid as I just described. If not even more...

[-ty-]

Good to be back Kiyoshi, Scarf, and Andy

Yeah, this girl said she went to a baptist church twice a week. There, I am sure she gets a regular condemnation of homosexuality; although the bible makes very little, if any claims about homosexuality. Her parents probably solidify that viewpoint as well; she mentioned her parents were avid church-goers and were also part of the republican party (and got her participating with them).

Not to point fingers at either Republicans or Baptists, but the likeliness that someone will become homophobic increases dramatically if one grows up in a household that is extremely right-wing and follows the Baptist faith. So, in a way, she might not be homophobic if she were raised by a non-religious or tolerant religious family and/or if her parents were libertarian/democrat/independent. She would actually be highly likely to support gay rights if she was adopted by gay parents.

This all sort of ties into the idea of freewill. We are placed in a certain circumstance by birth, that we have no choice in. Factors included: where we are born, ethnicity/race, sex, gender, sexual orientation, medical conditions, religion, economic status, among other factors.

Our upbringing is not really much of a choice, so it's hard to change someone's ideals when they are ingrained into them. As Scarf mentioned, the number one reason why people switch their views on gay rights and homosexuality is discovering that a close relative is gay. Usually the impact can be gauged by how close the relationship is; if a second cousin is gay, then it may have little effect, and if their sibling or child is gay, it may have an enormous effect. All-in-all, gay rights support has soared simply because more people are able to come out than ever as gay rights and gay television/media is not being swept under the rug, and instead, is being integrated into our culture. IF I were born in the 50's or earlier, I most likely would not come out. The amount of people who are coming out really has legimized the concern for the those with close gay family members and the general population at large.

In short, I can't exactly hold her accountable for the upbringing she had, but I can try to make her think more logically in order to make her consider whether her ideals on homosexuality (from her upbringing) have negative effects on society. I totally keep the angry we're-queer-and-we're-here persona under complete wraps, since that is absolutely not effective on homophobic-types. I don't know if many, if any of the people in class know I am gay either; I would rather them not for the sake of the argument, so they don't think I am biased; although, my professor that I had from a previous class knows that I am gay.

[Scarf]

Originally Posted by -ty-

In short, I can't exactly hold her accountable for the upbringing she had, but I can try to make her think more logically in order to make her consider whether her ideals on homosexuality (from her upbringing) have negative effects on society. I totally keep the angry we're-queer-and-we're-here persona under complete wraps, since that is absolutely not effective on homophobic-types. I don't know if many, if any of the people in class know I am gay either; I would rather them not for the sake of the argument, so they don't think I am biased; although, my professor that I had from a previous class knows that I am gay.

It's funny. If you want to get people to understand your point of view you can't use the obvious and simple argument that "hey, this doesn't affect you in any way so let people do what they want" because it's so simple an idea that they just bat it away like a fly, like it can't be valid because it's so simple.

That part I bolded there, that's the kind of thing that irritates me to no end. Just because someone is gay doesn't mean they can't make a coherent argument without ever referencing their own sexuality, but you'd get dismissed by a lot of people if you were supportive and then people found out you're gay.

Oh, let me also share something to make you want to vomit.



Srsly, this acting is so bad I could spew. Also, the message is terrible, backwards, etc.

[AshleyKetchum]

I need to ask a question which I may know the answer too but maybe my answer is the wrong one. Ok so I'm trans and all but have not gotten the operation. However I wore skinny jeans and a girl Hot Topic shirt today to school today and did get some stares but a bunch of kids in the cafe just called me out on it. Now here is what I don't get. They were boys with pants pulled down and you could see their boxers and girls hardly wearing anything to cover up and yet they call me out for wearing girl clothes. Is it they are just stupid and ignorant or should I not dress as a girl in public without the operation. I mean I met some very supportive people about the whole thing today too but wondering if doing it at school is to much compared to just doing it at home or around the town/city. Sorry if it was worded wrong

[-ty-]

Originally Posted by AshleyKetchum

I need to ask a question which I may know the answer too but maybe my answer is the wrong one. Ok so I'm trans and all but have not gotten the operation. However I wore skinny jeans and a girl Hot Topic shirt today to school today and did get some stares but a bunch of kids in the cafe just called me out on it. Now here is what I don't get. They were boys with pants pulled down and you could see their boxers and girls hardly wearing anything to cover up and yet they call me out for wearing girl clothes. Is it they are just stupid and ignorant or should I not dress as a girl in public without the operation. I mean I met some very supportive people about the whole thing today too but wondering if doing it at school is to much compared to just doing it at home or around the town/city. Sorry if it was worded wrong

This is a situation with no perfect option

But here are my thoughts; I think some other members might be more able to give this type of advice.

Assuming you don't live in an accepting city like New York City, San Francisco, Fort Lauder-dale, Ann Arbor, Seattle, among several other cities, here is what I would do, or suggest for you to do.

If you feel as if you will be physically harmed for dressing more feminine, I would say ride-it-out; you don't have to dress particularly masculine or feminine, more neutral attire might be a better choice for you while in public places that are not accepting. Of course, your life is your first and foremost concern.

I know it feels cowardly and unfair, but it may be your only option until you are able to move. I know it is not right for anyone to judge you or harm you because of your gender identity, but if there is no safe-way of going about expressing your true gender in a given situation, then it may have to be a concession on your part to dress less feminine.

Although finances may not always permit, I think moving to a LGBT-friendly city and/or neighborhood would be the best solution you can make for yourself.
Similarly, if you are to have several corrective surgeries, it may help your ability to go about your life with less fear of being harassed for expressing yourself. Of course, that is very expensive as well.

I know this is not much, if any, help for your situation; let's see if anyone else has something to add or has differing advice.


@ Scarf -
Those videos LITERALLY seem like parody videos. XD
I absolutely love the dramatic piano music, along with the 3rd grade acting.

[Scarf]

Originally Posted by AshleyKetchum

I need to ask a question which I may know the answer too but maybe my answer is the wrong one. Ok so I'm trans and all but have not gotten the operation. However I wore skinny jeans and a girl Hot Topic shirt today to school today and did get some stares but a bunch of kids in the cafe just called me out on it. Now here is what I don't get. They were boys with pants pulled down and you could see their boxers and girls hardly wearing anything to cover up and yet they call me out for wearing girl clothes. Is it they are just stupid and ignorant or should I not dress as a girl in public without the operation. I mean I met some very supportive people about the whole thing today too but wondering if doing it at school is to much compared to just doing it at home or around the town/city. Sorry if it was worded wrong

First, those people are prejudiced. It's not about how much skin/underwear you show, it's that you're breaking gender norms and they're not going to use their reason in that case 'cause their prejudice is in the way. People like that aren't going to be very self-aware or sympathetic.

Anyway, here is my advice: do what makes you comfortable.

Obviously, other people can make you feel uncomfortable, or even unsafe, if they're exceptionally prejudiced. Don't do anything that makes you feel like you're in danger. As much as you should be able to dress and be whoever you want to be, there can be danger depending on what kind of place you live in and it's not worth getting hurt.

You don't need surgery to dress how you want to. You might feel better, more comfortable, more confident with the surgery, but it's not something you should feel you absolutely have to have. I just don't want you to think that you have to wait, that you can't do something until you get it because there are a lot of things that can get in the way if you let yourself fall into that mode of thinking. If you want to work up the courage you can always dress your way at home (if you don't already) and gradually change your look in public, but to be honest I don't see why anyone would take issue with skinny jeans like those jerks did.

But again, it's about your comfort in being who you are. It seems like you want to dress how you did and you were fine with it until some jerks got involved. I don't want to tell you how you should look at this and I don't know your personal situation, but I would like to think that if you just did your thing like you already tried that you could just ignore the haters and have enough faith in yourself not to get brought down by them. Seems that there are good people you've met so I'd listen to them, too. Get some of your support from them because they seem to have their heads in the right place.

[PhantomX0990]

Originally Posted by Kiyoshi the Polar Bear

@PhantomX0990 - Y U MAK ME CRI ;;

That was beautiful. Very touching. Maybe one day you'll be back together. Maybe.

*hands tissue* I don't like people crying, it makes me feel like punching something cause that means that someone hurt them. In this case that'd be me, and I really don't want to punch myself.

We won't, and we know it. I don't do long distance relationships very well, and she's moved on. Which is a good thing. I want her happy. But if anyone hurts her so help me I will scalp them.

[Altix]

This week was my first week of school, and it was terribly depressing. Every day I would hear like 20+ gay slurs. so ya.... I don't think I will be starting a GSA.

Ugh.

[Scarf]

Maybe that's a good reason to start a GSA?

To me, it seems there are probably three different things that could come out of starting one. 1) People become more hostile now that they have "targets" for their slurs and hatred (not likely at all, I don't think) or 2) people's attitudes aren't changed, but at least you and other students have a safe space to talk (fairly common from what I understand) or 3) you increase awareness and understanding among some of the students (good chance it'll do something like this at some level).

So... don't give up hope yet.

[Altix]

Well, I live in Idaho. The principal would not let me start one. He is an old man.

[Scarf]

Maybe he'll die retire soon?

I can't say I know the laws about these things, but I have to wonder if a principal can stop you from having one. Is there anyone who works at the school (teacher, counselor, staff person) who you think would be able to help you? They'd know if there were a student handbook or something that showed what rules you'd have to follow would be so that you could say you're following all the rules and they couldn't stop you for something technical like that. And they could be a voice of reason in those meetings and discussions that don't involve students.

Dunno what your situation is, but it's something to think about it.

[Altix]

Nah, he is only 50. Anyway I think I am the only out gay kid in the school.

I emailed my principal...I will still try.

[Scarf]

That's a good start! Even if he still says no at least you tried. And maybe other people have asked about it separately, too. Sometimes a lot of little efforts together can pay off in a big way.

[EntwinedSilence]

Maaan, good luck, Altix! I bet if you start that club you won't be the only out LGBT student. That club could really benefit the school - more schools need GSAs, honestly. -w-

[QuilavaKing]

You're in middle school, so there are inevitably going to be far more gay slurs there than anywhere else in the world, even if you don't live in a homophobic place. That's just how it is. lol

Good luck though. Hope you succeed.

[Altix]

How did your collage outing go QuilavaKing? any news?

[Shining Raichu]

You know Altix, your principal may surprise you! Just because he's old and from Idaho (is Idaho not gay friendly? I know the high school doesn't seem to be but high schools everywhere are notorious for being anti-gay), doesn't mean he'll necessarily be as small-minded as your classmates.

Sometimes people are better than we give them credit for :D

[Altix]

I got a reply!
"Hi …it’s great to hear from you. Just visit with me and we’ll sit down and talk about what you’re are thinking about. I appreciate you taking the initiative to get something going.
Mr. Hammons"

[Scarf]

Originally Posted by Altix

I got a reply!
"Hi …it’s great to hear from you. Just visit with me and we’ll sit down and talk about what you’re are thinking about. I appreciate you taking the initiative to get something going.
Mr. Hammons"

Hey, that's great. Now you have a chance to make your case face-to-face. It would be great if you could get someone else like a friend or teacher to come with you, too.

[Altix]

I have nofriends. I am new to the school. He doesnt know I want to make a gsa yet.

[Shining Raichu]

Aw, nobody's befriended you yet? Oh well, it's only very early days, I'm sure you'll find some people soon :D. Maybe you'll even meet some through the GSA if you're allowed to start it!

[Altix]

kinda what I was hoping. Maybe subconsciously making a gsa is my evil plan to make friends? XD