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  #4251    
Old November 30th, 2013 (10:17 AM).
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Saw a news article that said that there's going to be a vote in Croatia about banning same-sex marriage. There's never been same-sex marriage there as far as I can tell, just acknowledgement of same-sex couples without any corresponding rights, but it's still a jerk thing to do. People are protesting this, but it doesn't look promising. Sad. I'd hoped that we were on the whole getting better around the world, that all the places full of prejudice had long since created their hateful laws and restrictions.

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  #4252    
Old December 1st, 2013 (1:57 PM).
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I would like to join.

I myself am just a straight guy, but I have been a staunch ally of the community for years, having a lesbian best friend can do that to you. Believe me, this support has gotten me into many a nasty argument with my rural values family, but hey, it's worth it. I often write about LGBTQ issues at my university's newspaper, so it's great to see a community here for it!

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  #4253    
Old December 1st, 2013 (2:13 PM).
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Hey, welcome! It's great to see that you're such a passionate supporter of the LGBT community. It would be great to see some of the things you've written.

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  #4254    
Old December 1st, 2013 (2:45 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Alessi_sys:
Hey, welcome! It's great to see that you're such a passionate supporter of the LGBT community. It would be great to see some of the things you've written.

Once I've made 15 posts, I'll be glad to share some.

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  #4255    
Old December 1st, 2013 (6:28 PM).
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Well, this just in, Croatians actually believed the lies of the Catholic Church and voted overwhelmingly to ban same sex couples from ever getting married. Gee, the number of Europeon countries that I'd actually want to visit is actually shrinking thanks to ignorance and bigotry like this. That these people voted this way also demonstrates the lack of education in that country. So sad. Can't wait to start receiving reports about gays being tortured and killed because of this (like what is happening in Russia) and Lesbians being subjected to "corrective" rape.

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  #4256    
Old December 1st, 2013 (8:28 PM).
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Quote:
The prime Minister Zoran Milanović told HRT that he would vote against the proposal[1], as well as the president Ivo Josipović who called the referendum unnecessary, without any practical political consequences regardless of the outcome, and a waste of taxpayers money.[6]. The president furthermore commented that marriage has already been defined in Croatian law as a union of man and woman, but that the referendum question has a strong psychological effect with a strong underlying discriminatory message.[6]
If successful, this will only strengthen the message that we are not willing to accept diversity, that we want to stop throughout the democratic world a clear process of equalization of rights of all people, regardless of their different personal characteristics, in particular their sexual orientation

— Ivo Josipović

Hmmm. The referendum was forced by petition.

  #4257    
Old December 1st, 2013 (8:45 PM).
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Yes, do share!

How is everyone doing by the way? This place has been a bit quiet lately.

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  #4258    
Old December 2nd, 2013 (12:14 PM).
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A bit quiet I bet because of the release of X & Y and lots of people being in school.

Anyway, as I already brought up some gay news stuff, I found another article today that talked about divorce in the US, and how gay couples who get married in a state that recognizes them have trouble getting divorces. One of the crazier things is that in some cases they're told they should move to a state that recognizes same-sex marriage (and consequently, divorce) and establish residency (meaning living there for a period of time) before they can file for divorce. Like that's an easy thing to do.

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  #4259    
Old December 5th, 2013 (7:16 AM).
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Hello. I'm a newbie, I'm gay, and it's very nice to know that an active LGBT club exists here. I want to join!

Anyway, I might have an opinion that's different from the rest of you when it comes to some gay rights issues, especially gay marriage, since I'm a Mormon and I take my Mormonism seriously. But I do respect the opinion of others, just like what we're encouraged to do so.

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  #4260    
Old December 6th, 2013 (9:51 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Ramrol:
Anyway, I might have an opinion that's different from the rest of you when it comes to some gay rights issues, especially gay marriage, since I'm a Mormon and I take my Mormonism seriously. But I do respect the opinion of others, just like what we're encouraged to do so. :)
If you don't mind my asking, how is it being gay and Mormon? I've gotten the rather strong impression that your religion isn't the most accepting of gay people, or at least with things like gay marriage and so on.

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  #4261    
Old December 9th, 2013 (9:17 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Esper:
If you don't mind my asking, how is it being gay and Mormon? I've gotten the rather strong impression that your religion isn't the most accepting of gay people, or at least with things like gay marriage and so on.

Sure, I won't mind answering. To be honest, I need to say that being a gay Latter-day Saint is not that easy, especially for someone like me who's still in his/her teenage years. There are many downs. For example, some members of my ward (a local LDS congregation) began snubbing me every Sunday after finding out that I'm gay. On the other hand, there are also ups. It's a good thing that the bishop of our ward is open-minded. When I have problems, especially those involving my sexuality, he's always ready to give me his counsel. Also, I never heard derogatory, homophobic remarks from him.

I can't deny that like other branches of Christianity, the LDS Church did have a past that is "not-so-welcoming" of LGBTQs but I can say that things are changing. The actual change commenced when Gordon B. Hinckley became President of the Church and the change he started is continuing. In fact, the LDS Church, on an effort to reach out to the general public about its position on LGBTQ issues, launched a website called Mormons and Gays. (Just search that on Google 'cause I can't post links yet.)

The stand of the Church on homosexuality is similar to that of Roman Catholicism. "Homosexuality per se is not a sin but acting on it is." That means homosexual feelings are okay but homosexual relationships and homosexual behaviors are no-nos. Same-sex marriage is also a no-no since it "interrupts with Heavenly Father's plan for the happiness of mankind." Despite opposition to same-sex marriage, the Church supports other gay rights. For example, in Salt Lake City, where LDS Church headquarters are located, the Church openly backed the passage of an anti-discrmination law protecting LGBTQ employment rights.

We might had a past that is "not-so-welcoming" of LGBTQs, but we are trying to change things. I'm gay, I'm a Mormon, and I'm satisfied with the continuous change occurring in my Church. I hope I was able to answer your inquiries.

Quote:
"Our hearts reach out to those who refer to themselves as gays and lesbians. We love and honor them as sons and daughters of God. They are welcome in the Church." - Gordon B. Hinckley. 15th LDS Church President

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  #4262    
Old December 9th, 2013 (9:21 PM).
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Quote originally posted by From Laurentum:
Sure, I won't mind answering. To be honest, I need to say that being a gay Latter-day Saint is not that easy, especially for someone like me who's still in his/her teenage years. There are many downs. For example, some members of my ward (a local LDS congregation) began snubbing me every Sunday after finding out that I'm gay. On the other hand, there are also ups. It's a good thing that the bishop of our ward is open-minded. When I have problems, especially those involving my sexuality, he's always ready to give me his counsel. Also, I never heard derogatory, homophobic remarks from him.

I can't deny that like other branches of Christianity, the LDS Church did have a past that is "not-so-welcoming" of LGBTQs but I can say that things are changing. The actual change commenced when Gordon B. Hinckley became President of the Church and the change he started is continuing. In fact, the LDS Church, on an effort to reach out to the general public about its position on LGBTQ issues, launched a website called Mormons and Gays. (Just search that on Google 'cause I can't post links yet.)

The stand of the Church on homosexuality is similar to that of Roman Catholicism. "Homosexuality per se is not a sin but acting on it is." That means homosexual feelings are okay but homosexual relationships and homosexual behaviors are no-nos. Same-sex marriage is also a no-no since it "interrupts with Heavenly Father's plan for the happiness of mankind." Despite opposition to same-sex marriage, the Church supports other gay rights. For example, in Salt Lake City, where LDS Church headquarters are located, the Church openly backed the passage of an anti-discrmination law protecting LGBTQ employment rights.

We might had a past that is "not-so-welcoming" of LGBTQs, but we are trying to change things. I'm gay, I'm a Mormon, and I'm satisfied with the continuous change occurring in my Church. I hope I was able to answer your inquiries.

If I may ask then, where does that put you with personal relationships?

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  #4263    
Old December 9th, 2013 (9:41 PM).
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Quote originally posted by The Mighty Kamina:
If I may ask then, where does that put you with personal relationships?

My mother tongue and the language I frequently speak is not English so I might have not understood your question well. If so, I apologize in advance. Well, the LDS law of chastity (a doctrine) clearly states that gay romantic relationships are no-nos. Therefore, I don't think I will be in a romantic relationship with someone of the same gender since I choose to abide by the encouragement of our leaders, which is to be chaste. I do respect same-sex couples.

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  #4264    
Old December 10th, 2013 (7:11 AM).
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So what you're saying is that you've resigned yourself at such a young age to a life of celibacy? I don't mean for that to sound judgmental, I'm just trying to get a grip on it myself.

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  #4265    
Old December 11th, 2013 (5:17 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Shining Raichu:
So what you're saying is that you've resigned yourself at such a young age to a life of celibacy? I don't mean for that to sound judgmental, I'm just trying to get a grip on it myself.

Many LGBTQ Mormons got married. To the opposite gender, though. (The LDS administrative handbook states that marrying someone of the same gender could get a Mormon excommunicated from the Church.) I don't know if I will follow their path because I believe living a married life with someone who I don't really love wouldn't make both of us happy but I don't think I'll be in a relationship with someone of the same gender either. I don't really mind living a celibate life, like Sir Isaac Newton who died a virgin. Anyway, there are many things to do in life and many people are happily living a celibate life.

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  #4266    
Old December 11th, 2013 (6:08 AM).
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It isn't just about the sex, though. What's essentially happening is you're running the risk of living not just a sexually celibate life, but an emotionally celibate one. Relationships are about intimacy and trust and they teach you so much about yourself and how you relate to others. I know your beliefs are important to you and I'm not trying to undermine them, but for your own well being I just want you to be sure that the sacrifice is worth it.

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  #4267    
Old December 11th, 2013 (6:19 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Shining Raichu:
It isn't just about the sex, though. What's essentially happening is you're running the risk of living not just a sexually celibate life, but an emotionally celibate one. Relationships are about intimacy and trust and they teach you so much about yourself and how you relate to others. I know your beliefs are important to you and I'm not trying to undermine them, but for your own well being I just want you to be sure that the sacrifice is worth it.

Only time will really tell. There's still a long way to take. Anyway, thank you for the advice. It was gladly appreciated. Also, forgive my frequent use of smileys.

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  #4268    
Old December 11th, 2013 (6:37 AM).
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I think it is fair to say that I will never understand any religion. In my view, it's a dogmatic belief that perpetuates fear and self-loathing. It was at a church that I encountered my first experience of homophobia. But certainly not my last. When it was discovered that I was gay, I was essentially asked to leave, though not by words but by actions.

Since then I have encountered many people with religious beliefs and have found most thoughtful and accepting, and even many Christians (Catholics in particular) who are very supportive of the LGBT community.

Of these religions, two stand out as especially hostile to the LGBT community. The Baptists and the Mormons. Both denominations have actively (and aggressively I might add) lobbied governments all over to reject any benefits for the LGBT community. It is only recently that the Mormons have come around in a small way to accepting anti-discrimination laws that protect the LGBT community in areas of public accommodation, jobs and housing. But they still insist that individual religious rights be given priority over all other considerations.

It's frustrating to say the least.

The harassment we encounter from door-to-door proselytizers such as the Mormons and the Jehovah's Witnesses have become so annoying that my boyfriend has taken to acting outrageously to drive them away (they do not take no for an answer). The last time a couple of missionaries came to our door, he remarked on the attractiveness of one of them and invited him in for something to drink. They left quite abruptly, let me tell you. We now fly a pride flag above our door and it seems to be working to keeping these people away.

But the point is, I shouldn't have to.

If I wish to join a religious group, I'd attend that church. Coming to my door to push your beliefs on my only serves to strengthen my dislike for them.

In the end, where it comes to those who belong to a denomination that does not condone relations between people of the same sex, I think it is up to the person to ask themselves this question: What is more important to me, my faith or my happiness in life?

For me, I could never see myself belonging to a religious organization that prohibits me from being happy by telling me who I can and cannot fall in love with. That is a serious intrusion into my life and I resent anyone who tells me how I should live it.

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  #4269    
Old December 11th, 2013 (7:49 AM).
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Quote originally posted by From Laurentum:
Only time will really tell. There's still a long way to take. Anyway, thank you for the advice. It was gladly appreciated. Also, forgive my frequent use of smileys.

If sexual celibacy's your thing, you could find someone likeminded with you. Not all marriages have to be sexual (and most stop being sexual after a bit of time anyways XD).

  #4270    
Old December 11th, 2013 (7:59 AM). Edited December 11th, 2013 by From Laurentum.
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Quote originally posted by Alessi_sys:
I think it is fair to say that I will never understand any religion. In my view, it's a dogmatic belief that perpetuates fear and self-loathing. It was at a church that I encountered my first experience of homophobia. But certainly not my last. When it was discovered that I was gay, I was essentially asked to leave, though not by words but by actions.

Since then I have encountered many people with religious beliefs and have found most thoughtful and accepting, and even many Christians (Catholics in particular) who are very supportive of the LGBT community.

Of these religions, two stand out as especially hostile to the LGBT community. The Baptists and the Mormons. Both denominations have actively (and aggressively I might add) lobbied governments all over to reject any benefits for the LGBT community. It is only recently that the Mormons have come around in a small way to accepting anti-discrimination laws that protect the LGBT community in areas of public accommodation, jobs and housing. But they still insist that individual religious rights be given priority over all other considerations.

It's frustrating to say the least.

The harassment we encounter from door-to-door proselytizers such as the Mormons and the Jehovah's Witnesses have become so annoying that my boyfriend has taken to acting outrageously to drive them away (they do not take no for an answer). The last time a couple of missionaries came to our door, he remarked on the attractiveness of one of them and invited him in for something to drink. They left quite abruptly, let me tell you. We now fly a pride flag above our door and it seems to be working to keeping these people away.

But the point is, I shouldn't have to.

If I wish to join a religious group, I'd attend that church. Coming to my door to push your beliefs on my only serves to strengthen my dislike for them.

In the end, where it comes to those who belong to a denomination that does not condone relations between people of the same sex, I think it is up to the person to ask themselves this question: What is more important to me, my faith or my happiness in life?

For me, I could never see myself belonging to a religious organization that prohibits me from being happy by telling me who I can and cannot fall in love with. That is a serious intrusion into my life and I resent anyone who tells me how I should live it.

Relax, sir. No one's pushing their beliefs on you. Missionaries from the Mormon Church, and those from the Jehovah's Witnesses and other proselytizing religious organizations, are not pushing their beliefs on anyone. In fact, when they come over your door, you can simply say, "No," and they'll leave.

Also, to be honest, I agree with you that many Mormons were hostile towards LGBTQs. Being a gay Mormon myself, I experienced the hostility of some Mormons. I'm even willing to give examples from my own experiences. Some members of my ward (a local Mormon congregation) begun snubbing me after finding out my sexuality. Some members even reject getting the sacrament (the Mormon communion, the bread and water) from me when I pass and I have a strong feeling that it's because of my sexuality. But Mormons are not perfect. We commit mistakes too. But we're trying hard to correct our mistakes and change everything. For instance, the Church launched Mormons and Gays to clarify its position on homosexuality. The official position of the Church on homosexuality was clearly stated on the aforementioned website and let me reiterate it by quoting it here:

Quote:
Where the Church stands: The experience of same-sex attraction is a complex reality for many people. The attraction itself is not a sin, but acting on it is. Even though individuals do not choose to have such attractions, they do choose how to respond to them. With love and understanding, the Church reaches out to all God’s children, including our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters.

While the Church is openly and in a civil manner expressing its opposition to same-sex marriage, the Church also supports anti-discrimination laws, just like what you said on your post. May it be recent, but I'm already happy that my Church is supporting these laws. To add, the LDS Church is not forcing its positions on everyone, to non-Mormons and even to Mormons. Mormons Building Bridges and Affirmation: Gay & Lesbian Mormons are both in favor of same-sex marriage and most of their members are active in the Mormon Church.

Well, to be honest, we can't blame you and others like you out there for having that kind of impression on Mormons when it comes to LGBTQ issues because of our past that's "not-so-welcoming" of LGBTQs. I do admit that we only have ourselves to blame but we don't want to waste our time blaming ourselves for what happened in the past because we're in the present. That's why we're correcting our mistakes and making necessary changes. (Note: "Correcting" and "making" are in the present progressive tense.) Not everyone recognizes our efforts while some simply choose not to. We can't blame them because that's a part of life's reality. We can't please everyone. Despite that, we will continue in making change and doing good to the extent of what we can, whether we get appreciated and recognized by others or not.

Quote originally posted by BlahISuck:
If sexual celibacy's your thing, you could find someone likeminded with you. Not all marriages have to be sexual (and most stop being sexual after a bit of time anyways XD).

Yeah, true that. Anyway, I don't believe that marriage's purpose is sexual. But my concern is doctrinal and religious. I do respect LGBTQs who choose to be in a relationship or in a marriage with someone of the same gender.

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  #4271    
Old December 11th, 2013 (8:27 AM).
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I thought only homosexual acts were condemned. Surely two guys or girls can live together and they wouldn't be considered any different?

  #4272    
Old December 11th, 2013 (9:31 AM).
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Quote originally posted by BlahISuck:
I thought only homosexual acts were condemned. Surely two guys or girls can live together and they wouldn't be considered any different?

Same-gender marriage is also a no-no.

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  #4273    
Old December 11th, 2013 (9:36 AM).
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Aww but there's nothing wrong with same-sex relationships eh? Who cares about who's giving who else a name? Just tell them it's not a marriage

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Old December 11th, 2013 (10:34 AM).
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It's interesting that "marriage", until relatively recently, wasn't even something the church concerned itself with. Until the church got involved, a marriage was a contract between two men: the man wishing to marry a woman, and the woman's father. It was an arrangement that did two things: increased the wealth of the man, who claimed ownership of all that the woman had, and it ensured the man's children would carry the family name.

I think people forget this bit of history when they talk about marriage. They believe, mistakingly, that it is a religious institution, when it's not. Even though ministers are granted the privilege of performing a marriage, the institution itself is regulated by the government. It's a wholly secular institution. Holy Matrimony, on the other hand, is a church governed institution and is not the same as marriage. The church can join two people in Holy Matrimony without the government, but except within the church, that joining would have little meaning where the couple's rights are concerned. The government does not recognize Holy Matrimony. It only recognizes civil marriages.

And it is because people are not aware of the distinction is why we have such a fight on our hands trying to get governments to allow same-sex couples to get married. It is precisely because of religion that this fight is as difficult as it is for us.

From Laurentum , you contend in your response to my post that it is not the intent of the Mormon church to push their beliefs on anyone., but when they so vociferously argue to deny same-sex couples the right to marry, that is precisely what they are doing. Because it is the Mormon Church's position that only a man and a woman may marry, they sought, and continue to seek, to limit the rights of the LGBT community even if those couples are not Mormons themselves. How can it be argued that it is not the church's intent to push its beliefs on others when their actions say otherwise?

I have been degraded and berated by those who profess to be Christians and told that I will be going to hell when I die because I just happen to be gay in a monogamous, sexual, loving relationship with the man that I love. These are all efforts to make me conform to their beliefs and give up the love of my life. Well I tell you, I would rather be happy and going to hell rather than become another mindless drone for the church to dominate and control.

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  #4275    
Old December 11th, 2013 (11:43 AM).
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I think that marriage has had a lot of different definitions and methods if you look across the globe and across history. I don't think anyone can say they have a monopoly on the idea or how it should be practiced.

Quote originally posted by BlahISuck:
Aww but there's nothing wrong with same-sex relationships eh? Who cares about who's giving who else a name? Just tell them it's not a marriage ;)
I think this would only work if someone was interested in following the letter of their religion instead of the spirit, so to speak. People would probably see through it anyway.

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