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  #4276    
Old December 11th, 2013 (05:17 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Shining Raichu:
So what you're saying is that you've resigned yourself at such a young age to a life of celibacy? I don't mean for that to sound judgmental, I'm just trying to get a grip on it myself.
Many LGBTQ Mormons got married. To the opposite gender, though. (The LDS administrative handbook states that marrying someone of the same gender could get a Mormon excommunicated from the Church.) I don't know if I will follow their path because I believe living a married life with someone who I don't really love wouldn't make both of us happy but I don't think I'll be in a relationship with someone of the same gender either. I don't really mind living a celibate life, like Sir Isaac Newton who died a virgin. Anyway, there are many things to do in life and many people are happily living a celibate life.
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  #4277    
Old December 11th, 2013 (06:08 AM).
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It isn't just about the sex, though. What's essentially happening is you're running the risk of living not just a sexually celibate life, but an emotionally celibate one. Relationships are about intimacy and trust and they teach you so much about yourself and how you relate to others. I know your beliefs are important to you and I'm not trying to undermine them, but for your own well being I just want you to be sure that the sacrifice is worth it.
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  #4278    
Old December 11th, 2013 (06:19 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Shining Raichu:
It isn't just about the sex, though. What's essentially happening is you're running the risk of living not just a sexually celibate life, but an emotionally celibate one. Relationships are about intimacy and trust and they teach you so much about yourself and how you relate to others. I know your beliefs are important to you and I'm not trying to undermine them, but for your own well being I just want you to be sure that the sacrifice is worth it.
Only time will really tell. There's still a long way to take. Anyway, thank you for the advice. It was gladly appreciated. Also, forgive my frequent use of smileys.
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  #4279    
Old December 11th, 2013 (06:37 AM).
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I think it is fair to say that I will never understand any religion. In my view, it's a dogmatic belief that perpetuates fear and self-loathing. It was at a church that I encountered my first experience of homophobia. But certainly not my last. When it was discovered that I was gay, I was essentially asked to leave, though not by words but by actions.

Since then I have encountered many people with religious beliefs and have found most thoughtful and accepting, and even many Christians (Catholics in particular) who are very supportive of the LGBT community.

Of these religions, two stand out as especially hostile to the LGBT community. The Baptists and the Mormons. Both denominations have actively (and aggressively I might add) lobbied governments all over to reject any benefits for the LGBT community. It is only recently that the Mormons have come around in a small way to accepting anti-discrimination laws that protect the LGBT community in areas of public accommodation, jobs and housing. But they still insist that individual religious rights be given priority over all other considerations.

It's frustrating to say the least.

The harassment we encounter from door-to-door proselytizers such as the Mormons and the Jehovah's Witnesses have become so annoying that my boyfriend has taken to acting outrageously to drive them away (they do not take no for an answer). The last time a couple of missionaries came to our door, he remarked on the attractiveness of one of them and invited him in for something to drink. They left quite abruptly, let me tell you. We now fly a pride flag above our door and it seems to be working to keeping these people away.

But the point is, I shouldn't have to.

If I wish to join a religious group, I'd attend that church. Coming to my door to push your beliefs on my only serves to strengthen my dislike for them.

In the end, where it comes to those who belong to a denomination that does not condone relations between people of the same sex, I think it is up to the person to ask themselves this question: What is more important to me, my faith or my happiness in life?

For me, I could never see myself belonging to a religious organization that prohibits me from being happy by telling me who I can and cannot fall in love with. That is a serious intrusion into my life and I resent anyone who tells me how I should live it.
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  #4280    
Old December 11th, 2013 (07:49 AM).
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Quote originally posted by From Laurentum:
Only time will really tell. There's still a long way to take. Anyway, thank you for the advice. It was gladly appreciated. Also, forgive my frequent use of smileys.
If sexual celibacy's your thing, you could find someone likeminded with you. Not all marriages have to be sexual (and most stop being sexual after a bit of time anyways XD).
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  #4281    
Old December 11th, 2013 (07:59 AM). Edited December 11th, 2013 by From Laurentum.
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Quote originally posted by Alessi_sys:
I think it is fair to say that I will never understand any religion. In my view, it's a dogmatic belief that perpetuates fear and self-loathing. It was at a church that I encountered my first experience of homophobia. But certainly not my last. When it was discovered that I was gay, I was essentially asked to leave, though not by words but by actions.

Since then I have encountered many people with religious beliefs and have found most thoughtful and accepting, and even many Christians (Catholics in particular) who are very supportive of the LGBT community.

Of these religions, two stand out as especially hostile to the LGBT community. The Baptists and the Mormons. Both denominations have actively (and aggressively I might add) lobbied governments all over to reject any benefits for the LGBT community. It is only recently that the Mormons have come around in a small way to accepting anti-discrimination laws that protect the LGBT community in areas of public accommodation, jobs and housing. But they still insist that individual religious rights be given priority over all other considerations.

It's frustrating to say the least.

The harassment we encounter from door-to-door proselytizers such as the Mormons and the Jehovah's Witnesses have become so annoying that my boyfriend has taken to acting outrageously to drive them away (they do not take no for an answer). The last time a couple of missionaries came to our door, he remarked on the attractiveness of one of them and invited him in for something to drink. They left quite abruptly, let me tell you. We now fly a pride flag above our door and it seems to be working to keeping these people away.

But the point is, I shouldn't have to.

If I wish to join a religious group, I'd attend that church. Coming to my door to push your beliefs on my only serves to strengthen my dislike for them.

In the end, where it comes to those who belong to a denomination that does not condone relations between people of the same sex, I think it is up to the person to ask themselves this question: What is more important to me, my faith or my happiness in life?

For me, I could never see myself belonging to a religious organization that prohibits me from being happy by telling me who I can and cannot fall in love with. That is a serious intrusion into my life and I resent anyone who tells me how I should live it.
Relax, sir. No one's pushing their beliefs on you. Missionaries from the Mormon Church, and those from the Jehovah's Witnesses and other proselytizing religious organizations, are not pushing their beliefs on anyone. In fact, when they come over your door, you can simply say, "No," and they'll leave.

Also, to be honest, I agree with you that many Mormons were hostile towards LGBTQs. Being a gay Mormon myself, I experienced the hostility of some Mormons. I'm even willing to give examples from my own experiences. Some members of my ward (a local Mormon congregation) begun snubbing me after finding out my sexuality. Some members even reject getting the sacrament (the Mormon communion, the bread and water) from me when I pass and I have a strong feeling that it's because of my sexuality. But Mormons are not perfect. We commit mistakes too. But we're trying hard to correct our mistakes and change everything. For instance, the Church launched Mormons and Gays to clarify its position on homosexuality. The official position of the Church on homosexuality was clearly stated on the aforementioned website and let me reiterate it by quoting it here:

Quote:
Where the Church stands: The experience of same-sex attraction is a complex reality for many people. The attraction itself is not a sin, but acting on it is. Even though individuals do not choose to have such attractions, they do choose how to respond to them. With love and understanding, the Church reaches out to all God’s children, including our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters.
While the Church is openly and in a civil manner expressing its opposition to same-sex marriage, the Church also supports anti-discrimination laws, just like what you said on your post. May it be recent, but I'm already happy that my Church is supporting these laws. To add, the LDS Church is not forcing its positions on everyone, to non-Mormons and even to Mormons. Mormons Building Bridges and Affirmation: Gay & Lesbian Mormons are both in favor of same-sex marriage and most of their members are active in the Mormon Church.

Well, to be honest, we can't blame you and others like you out there for having that kind of impression on Mormons when it comes to LGBTQ issues because of our past that's "not-so-welcoming" of LGBTQs. I do admit that we only have ourselves to blame but we don't want to waste our time blaming ourselves for what happened in the past because we're in the present. That's why we're correcting our mistakes and making necessary changes. (Note: "Correcting" and "making" are in the present progressive tense.) Not everyone recognizes our efforts while some simply choose not to. We can't blame them because that's a part of life's reality. We can't please everyone. Despite that, we will continue in making change and doing good to the extent of what we can, whether we get appreciated and recognized by others or not.

Quote originally posted by BlahISuck:
If sexual celibacy's your thing, you could find someone likeminded with you. Not all marriages have to be sexual (and most stop being sexual after a bit of time anyways XD).
Yeah, true that. Anyway, I don't believe that marriage's purpose is sexual. But my concern is doctrinal and religious. I do respect LGBTQs who choose to be in a relationship or in a marriage with someone of the same gender.
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  #4282    
Old December 11th, 2013 (08:27 AM).
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I thought only homosexual acts were condemned. Surely two guys or girls can live together and they wouldn't be considered any different?
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  #4283    
Old December 11th, 2013 (09:31 AM).
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Quote originally posted by BlahISuck:
I thought only homosexual acts were condemned. Surely two guys or girls can live together and they wouldn't be considered any different?
Same-gender marriage is also a no-no.
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  #4284    
Old December 11th, 2013 (09:36 AM).
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Aww but there's nothing wrong with same-sex relationships eh? Who cares about who's giving who else a name? Just tell them it's not a marriage
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  #4285    
Old December 11th, 2013 (10:34 AM).
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It's interesting that "marriage", until relatively recently, wasn't even something the church concerned itself with. Until the church got involved, a marriage was a contract between two men: the man wishing to marry a woman, and the woman's father. It was an arrangement that did two things: increased the wealth of the man, who claimed ownership of all that the woman had, and it ensured the man's children would carry the family name.

I think people forget this bit of history when they talk about marriage. They believe, mistakingly, that it is a religious institution, when it's not. Even though ministers are granted the privilege of performing a marriage, the institution itself is regulated by the government. It's a wholly secular institution. Holy Matrimony, on the other hand, is a church governed institution and is not the same as marriage. The church can join two people in Holy Matrimony without the government, but except within the church, that joining would have little meaning where the couple's rights are concerned. The government does not recognize Holy Matrimony. It only recognizes civil marriages.

And it is because people are not aware of the distinction is why we have such a fight on our hands trying to get governments to allow same-sex couples to get married. It is precisely because of religion that this fight is as difficult as it is for us.


From Laurentum , you contend in your response to my post that it is not the intent of the Mormon church to push their beliefs on anyone., but when they so vociferously argue to deny same-sex couples the right to marry, that is precisely what they are doing. Because it is the Mormon Church's position that only a man and a woman may marry, they sought, and continue to seek, to limit the rights of the LGBT community even if those couples are not Mormons themselves. How can it be argued that it is not the church's intent to push its beliefs on others when their actions say otherwise?

I have been degraded and berated by those who profess to be Christians and told that I will be going to hell when I die because I just happen to be gay in a monogamous, sexual, loving relationship with the man that I love. These are all efforts to make me conform to their beliefs and give up the love of my life. Well I tell you, I would rather be happy and going to hell rather than become another mindless drone for the church to dominate and control.
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  #4286    
Old December 11th, 2013 (11:43 AM).
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I think that marriage has had a lot of different definitions and methods if you look across the globe and across history. I don't think anyone can say they have a monopoly on the idea or how it should be practiced.

Quote originally posted by BlahISuck:
Aww but there's nothing wrong with same-sex relationships eh? Who cares about who's giving who else a name? Just tell them it's not a marriage ;)
I think this would only work if someone was interested in following the letter of their religion instead of the spirit, so to speak. People would probably see through it anyway.
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  #4287    
Old December 11th, 2013 (11:49 AM).
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I didn't know religion had anything to say about same-sex relationships though, just that we couldn't call it marriage. I thought it was all a labelling thing - "you can do whatever you want, it's just not marriage".

*shrugs*
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  #4288    
Old December 12th, 2013 (01:51 AM).
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Pfft, Mormons do not take 'no' for an answer.

I've tried saying I'm atheist for years and that I'm not interested; never works, if anything it makes them talk more.

A friend of mine had to call his partner over and started making out in front of them to get them to leave once.

I will never understand what this kid is saying though. Kid, you're saying you're going live you life alone then? Or miserable in a relationship that you aren't happy in? How is that fair to you? And how in the hell can you be happy with it? Sexual part aside, it's not healthy to designate yourself to a life of solitude. And from what it sounds like your spiritual leader/pastor is treating your sexuality like it's an illness, or something that needs to be dealth with. That's just wrong, and no, it's not accepting at all. Hell I'd rather be told I'm going to hell than that I needed to be 'treated'.


BLARGEN.


Anywho. Been a while guys. The past month I've met an amazing woman, and honestly, I've never felt this way about someone before. I mean I've said I was in love before, but this is such a different feeling. My parents are being oddly okay with things since I officially came out in October, hell, me and my girlfriend are facebook official now.

So Phantom is happy.
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  #4289    
Old December 12th, 2013 (03:49 AM).
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Just to interject quickly, one Australian state passed same-sex marriage the other day and the High Court of Australia overruled it because marriage is seen as a federal issue and the state marriage law could not coinicide with the Australian version of DOMA. So it's a pretty **** day to be an Australian today.
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  #4290    
Old December 12th, 2013 (04:55 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Shining Raichu:
Just to interject quickly, one Australian state passed same-sex marriage the other day and the High Court of Australia overruled it because marriage is seen as a federal issue and the state marriage law could not coinicide with the Australian version of DOMA. So it's a pretty **** day to be an Australian today.
Yeah, well, this was to be expected, to be perfectly honest with you. The ruling class, and the judiciary, are very conservative and neither views homosexuality in a very good light. It is only grudgingly that they even accept that gays and lesbians and bisexuals and transgender people should have any protections at all. It's going to be a very long time before that country recognizes same sex marriages.

So long as the people in that country continue to vote for these legislators, you will never have equal rights in Australia. It's a failure on the part of the people.
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  #4291    
Old December 12th, 2013 (06:45 AM).
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Holy crap you know about Australia, random Canadian. More than I even take enough interest to know haha. I wasn't surprised either, the way they put the law in was a little dodgy but it was worth a try. At the very least we can focus on the more important countries that are recognising it. Australia is nothing really; when it becomes widespread enough in America we'll follow because that's just what we do
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  #4292    
Old December 12th, 2013 (06:51 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Shining Raichu:
Holy crap you know about Australia, random Canadian. More than I even take enough interest to know haha. I wasn't surprised either, the way they put the law in was a little dodgy but it was worth a try. At the very least we can focus on the more important countries that are recognising it. Australia is nothing really; when it becomes widespread enough in America we'll follow because that's just what we do
I make it a point to keep abreast of any an all news pertaining to the LGBT community as much as possible. And as a gay rights advocate, it's definitely an asset to know what's going on in the world.
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  #4293    
Old December 12th, 2013 (12:23 PM).
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I figured Andy would have brought this up when I saw it mentioned in the news. After what happened in India this is just rubbing salt in the wound. I feel like The Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert lied to me.
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  #4294    
Old December 12th, 2013 (10:41 PM).
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I only just saw that movie earlier this year lol, but I can say with absolute certainty that yes, they did lie to you. It's just lucky as I say that we're not a real country - what we do with ourselves affects nothing on the outside world like it would if we were America.
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  #4295    
Old December 18th, 2013 (01:53 PM).
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So, back to the Russian Olympics. Normally with the Olympics you get presidents and other high ups going as part of the delegation, but this time the US, French, and other presidents aren't going, but the US is sending as part of its delegation a very famous athlete named Billie Jean King who also happens to be the first high profile woman to come out, and that was back in the dark ages known as the 80s.

This was a brilliant move.
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Old December 19th, 2013 (01:09 AM).
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That is absolutely brilliant! But doesn't that put her safety at risk?
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Old December 19th, 2013 (02:18 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Shining Raichu:
That is absolutely brilliant! But doesn't that put her safety at risk?
Well one would assume she'd have very good security, from her own team and the host nation. Olympic security has really been tightened up after the massacre at the Munich olympics in '72. Despite how notoriously homophobic the Russian public and political system is seen to be could you imagine the fallout if a gay national representative was attacked? Especially if she's in the place of the president.This is a calculated gamble by the U.S to push for more human and gay rights in very restrictive Russia. There's risks, but I think security services are up to the challenge.
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Old December 19th, 2013 (11:51 AM).
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/12/19/new-mexico-supreme-court-legalizes-gay-marriage/?clsrd

Same-sex marriage is legal in New Mexico - making 17/50, which is a third of all states as well as a number that encompasses ~37% of the American population.
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  #4299    
Old December 19th, 2013 (01:34 PM).
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hi i'd like to join as well im heterosexual though im a big supporter of the gay community and im kinda sick of people seeing them as second-rate people just because of their prejudices -.-
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Old December 19th, 2013 (09:06 PM).
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Bringing my girl over to meet my parents for Christmas Eve.

Nervous and excited. I've already met her family and it went well. Fingers crossed!
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