The Rainbow Connection [LGBTS Club]

[FreakyLocz14]

Do we really need to be be Bible bashing?

[-ty-]

Nah, we are proverbially bashing the people that use the bible to literally bash others. lol

But really, several religious institutions abuse their power to oppress others.

[Hybrid Trainer]

I thought i answered this before, but i mustn't have xD
Would or could you be attracted to or date or consider dating someone who is transgendered?
Nope. Not one teeny bit. I've nothing against transgendered, but their not my type. It's the same with all these hollywood actors who probably use more products than the actresses ¬.¬

Originally Posted by -ty-

Nah, we are proverbially bashing the people that use the bible to literally bash others. lol

But really, several religious institutions abuse their power to oppress others.

I wouldn't say the institutions abuse their power. Its just a select few people who follow it who use their religion to target those who they don't like because the government a scared of offending peoples religions.

[Shining Raichu]

To be honest, I think as gay people we have a free pass to bash on religion. It's the right we have in substitute for not being able to get married. So, church, when you're ready to trade, call me. I'll be waiting by the phone.

And congrats on 1000th post Hybrid Trainer! \o/

[deoxys121]

First of all, I think it's sickening that super-religious people bash on and try to "cure" gays. It's not a disease, and they need to stop treating it like it is.

In response to Shining Raichu on your comment on getting married: Slowly but surely, that is changing, at least in the United States. Six of the fifty states (Connecticut, Iowa, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Vermont, and most recently, New York) allow same-sex marriage. I personally believe, however, it should be allowed everywhere.

[QuilavaKing]

Originally Posted by Shining Raichu

To be honest, I think as gay people we have a free pass to bash on religion. It's the right we have in substitute for not being able to get married. So, church, when you're ready to trade, call me. I'll be waiting by the phone.

And congrats on 1000th post Hybrid Trainer! \o/

I hate it when people think like this. You're no better than them if you feel that way.

[Scarf]

There are plenty of churches who will officiate same sex weddings in my area. Not all of them are allowed by their doctrine to call them weddings, and even those that do aren't allowed to make it legal (stupid Prop 8 I hope you go down in flames) and you even have some churches in San Francisco where the clergy are gay. Just saying.

But I'll agree that a disproportionate level of hate for queer people comes out of churches and/or heavily religious people. They need to clean their act up and learn a thing or two about love.

[fango pango]

i guess you can sign me up too...
im not gay...but im somewhat bi-curious
i guess that may just be me being 14...
but i do have gay and bi friends who get upset over things
and i do help them out...and at times i do wana be their...special friend :$
that may just be me though....it may just be me being weird and stuff....but hey....im open about it and i wana talk to you guys :$

[BlooMilk C.]

Actually, the pastor for the church at Harvard was a gay, black man. It's a non-denominational church, which I thought was pretty cool. Everyone loved his views. It's a sad thing that he died recently. Anyway, my state recently allowed same-sex marriage, which was a law that they passed a few months ago \o/

[-ty-]

Originally Posted by Hybrid Trainer

I thought i answered this before, but i mustn't have xD
Would or could you be attracted to or date or consider dating someone who is transgendered?
Nope. Not one teeny bit. I've nothing against transgendered, but their not my type. It's the same with all these hollywood actors who probably use more products than the actresses ¬.¬



I wouldn't say the institutions abuse their power. Its just a select few people who follow it who use their religion to target those who they don't like because the government a scared of offending peoples religions.

Well, I think its both select people and the institutions. The Mormon church! OMG they are soooo corrupt. They asked families to donate thousands of dollars for prop 8 in or they would not be allowed into the church. They also got audited after they claimed to spend less than 1,000 dollars in support for the proposition, when really they spent $22 million after coercing members to donate or be kicked out of the church, and consequently, go to hell.

[FreakyLocz14]

A lot of religions are LGBT tolerant, and even if in ones that aren't, many of their followers disagree with their church's official doctrine on homosexuality.

Interesting fact: In Nevada, the age of consent for male-female sex and female-female sex is 16, while it is 18 for male-male sex.

What do you think of this?

Chart:
http://www.avert.org/age-of-consent.htm

[QuilavaKing]

Originally Posted by FreakyLocz14

A lot of religions are LGBT tolerant, and even if in ones that aren't, many of their followers disagree with their church's official doctrine on homosexuality.

Interesting fact: In Nevada, the age of consent for male-female sex and female-female sex is 16, while it is 18 for male-male sex.

What do you think of this?

Chart:
http://www.avert.org/age-of-consent.htm

... why? How does that difference even happen?

[FreakyLocz14]

Originally Posted by QuilavaKing

... why? How does that difference even happen?

Well, having different ages of consent was ruled unconstitutional, but the Nevada law bans all sodomy under the age of 18.

[TornZero]

Originally Posted by FreakyLocz14

Well, having different ages of consent was ruled unconstitutional, but the Nevada law bans all sodomy under the age of 18.

Oral sex is included under the "sodomy" range, and both involved sexes are very capable of it, not just two men. Unless they're trying to specifically refer "sodomy" to "penile insertion", in which male-female relations are capable of, too.

Basically: Nebraska's screwed up in pretty much saying, "Teen girls getting it on is fine, but teen guys have to wait, just because we say so."

[Alternative]

Originally Posted by Shining Raichu

To be honest, I think as gay people we have a free pass to bash on religion. It's the right we have in substitute for not being able to get married. So, church, when you're ready to trade, call me. I'll be waiting by the phone.

And congrats on 1000th post Hybrid Trainer! \o/

This is late, but I feel on having an opinion here.

Just because some religions don't want gay marriage and "bash" gays because is what they believe in, doesn't give you the right to be a hypocrite and do the same back. I'm all for supporting gays and their rights, but having to use methods such as bashing people who don't agree with your choices just doesn't seem right.

[-ty-]

Originally Posted by Alternative

This is late, but I feel on having an opinion here.

Just because some religions don't want gay marriage and "bash" gays because is what they believe in, doesn't give you the right to be a hypocrite and do the same back. I'm all for supporting gays and their rights, but having to use methods such as bashing people who don't agree with your choices just doesn't seem right.

I think instead of using the word "bash" I would use scrutinize. I think that gay people should be able to scrutinize the belief that we are not equals, because that belief is lined with ignorance and hate. Also, it's not scrutinizing "people who don't agree with [our] choices" per se. Rather it is about scrutinizing people who support oppression of a people whose only "choices" are hiding their sexuality, or be honest about it. But I will say that not all Christians are ignorant and spiteful, that would be a harsh and untrue generalization, even though many do have hatred/dislike for gay people. Many of them are able to understand the important bible versus about love and respect while dismissing the versus that may have been customary ideals 2000 years ago (ie slavery, stoning), but they are not in correspondence with our culture.

Originally Posted by FreakyLocz14

A lot of religions are LGBT tolerant, and even if in ones that aren't, many of their followers disagree with their church's official doctrine on homosexuality.

Interesting fact: In Nevada, the age of consent for male-female sex and female-female sex is 16, while it is 18 for male-male sex.

What do you think of this?

Chart:
http://www.avert.org/age-of-consent.htm

Lol, I found that table to be interesting. It's funny how so many countries, particularly in Africa, are all for lesbian sex, but not so much gay men.

BTW. That is strange that Nevada is the only state to have that double-standard. So is it only gay guys that have sodomy restrictions until 18 (oral/anal) ?

[Shining Raichu]

Welcome, fango pango!

Now...

Originally Posted by QuilavaKing

I hate it when people think like this. You're no better than them if you feel that way.

Originally Posted by Alternative

Just because some religions don't want gay marriage and "bash" gays because is what they believe in, doesn't give you the right to be a hypocrite and do the same back. I'm all for supporting gays and their rights, but having to use methods such as bashing people who don't agree with your choices just doesn't seem right.

Wow. If it's not OK to rage against religion in an LGBT Club, then where is it OK? I thought these were my people...

What makes this different is that homosexuality is not a choice, whereas religion is. To oppress us is OK, but to hate them for it is hypocritical? Unlike them, it's not as though my hating does anything; it's harmless. It oppresses noone. This is what I mean, religion gets far too much of a free ride from everybody simply because it is religion.

QuilavaKing, your comments in particular were as upsetting as they were unfair.

[Alternative]

While you may be right, about religion being a choice, and being gay isn't, still what makes you think that you're allowed to bully someone because of how they feel? It's more of a general bullying case for me moreso than anything. You shouldn't be allowed to do that just because they do it back. Whether it's a lifestyle choice or not, you shouldn't be discriminating against anyone, just because they're different. Saying it's okay for people in the LGBT club to bash on religious people who think gays should be condemned is like saying people of a different race are allowed to pick on fat people because being fat is a choice, and being a certain race isn't.

tl;dr Bullying and discrimination rights work both ways. Treat people how you want to be treated.

[deoxys121]

Originally Posted by Shining Raichu

Welcome, fango pango!

Now...





Wow. If it's not OK to rage against religion in an LGBT Club, then where is it OK? I thought these were my people...

What makes this different is that homosexuality is not a choice, whereas religion is. To oppress us is OK, but to hate them for it is hypocritical? Unlike them, it's not as though my hating does anything; it's harmless. It oppresses noone. This is what I mean, religion gets far too much of a free ride from everybody simply because it is religion.

QuilavaKing, your comments in particular were as upsetting as they were unfair.

Well, at the very least you shouldn't bash religion as a whole. However, it could be considered negotiable to retaliate towards a specific person who directly bashed you.

And as far as your hating not hurting anyone, that's totally untrue. Everyone has the right to believe as they choose, so hating on someone for being religious can definitely hurt someone.

[Rossay]

First of all, I should probably join this..

Secondly,

Originally Posted by Shining Raichu

Welcome, fango pango!

Wow. If it's not OK to rage against religion in an LGBT Club, then where is it OK? I thought these were my people...

What makes this different is that homosexuality is not a choice, whereas religion is. To oppress us is OK, but to hate them for it is hypocritical? Unlike them, it's not as though my hating does anything; it's harmless. It oppresses noone. This is what I mean, religion gets far too much of a free ride from everybody simply because it is religion.

QuilavaKing, your comments in particular were as upsetting as they were unfair.

An LGBT club is NOT an anti-religious group. As a bi-Chrisitian, I feel disagree with you completely, just because SOME sections of certain religious groups "hate" on the LGBT community, DOES NOT IN ANYWAY SHAPE OR FORM give you a free pass to return that.

The LGBT community has experienced incredibly widespread prejudice and hate for centuries, if any community in the world should know better than to retaliate with hate, then it is us.

Also, on your point that religion is a "choice", I disgree, religion is as much a way of life as being homosexual is for people who are part of it. I mean, you could always choose not to have homosexual sex (even if being gay isn't a choice)? My point is, I don't think that it is a valid line of argument. Being gay doesn't trump religion, neither does being religious trump being gay: we have to learn to be more tolerant instead of jostling for position.

[Shining Raichu]

Welcome, Rossay! I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts with me, you might find some responses in the post below.

Originally Posted by Alternative

While you may be right, about religion being a choice, and being gay isn't, still what makes you think that you're allowed to bully someone because of how they feel? It's more of a general bullying case for me moreso than anything. You shouldn't be allowed to do that just because they do it back. Whether it's a lifestyle choice or not, you shouldn't be discriminating against anyone, just because they're different. Saying it's okay for people in the LGBT club to bash on religious people who think gays should be condemned is like saying people of a different race are allowed to pick on fat people because being fat is a choice, and being a certain race isn't.

tl;dr Bullying and discrimination rights work both ways. Treat people how you want to be treated.

First of all, in no way is it even nearly similar to picking on fat people because being fat is a choice. If the fat people were discriminating against the race based on something inherent in their fatness, then that would be another thing altogether.

I'm not discriminating against anyone, and I'm certainly not a bully. I'm not hating on a group of people. The term 'religion' is a blanket term because quite frankly specifying the exact kind of people I'm talking about every time I talk about them would be exhausting. I'm not raging against anyone for being religious or believing in God, because I know that not all of these people are hating on me. I'm hating on the specific ones that are of the belief that homosexuality is wrong. I figured that would be implied, this being a thread on the subject of homosexuality.

And you know what? I'm entitled to that. I'm entitled to be angry and to express that here of all places, and I resent any implication otherwise. At no time will you ever see me attack any aspect of religion other than its oppressive side, because outside of that, I have no problems with it.

[Alternative]

Originally Posted by Shining Raichu

First of all, in no way is it even nearly similar to picking on fat people because being fat is a choice. If the fat people were discriminating against the race based on something inherent in their fatness, then that would be another thing altogether.

Yes it is. That's the point I'm trying to make, that gays bashing on religious people who think your morals are wrong is the same. It's like saying a gay person, or someone of a different race or something else which isn't a choice is allowed to make fun of a fat person because that lifestyle is a choice.

What I'm trying to say is that you can't go about treating other people like crap because you don't agree with them or their lifestyle or vice versa.

[Toujours]

Originally Posted by Alternative

What I'm trying to say is that you can't go about treating other people like crap because you don't agree with them or their lifestyle or vice versa.

To be fair, if you've spent any time around Shining Raichu, you'd know that his opinion extends as far as the religion itself, and not to the people who practice it. He's not afraid to share his views on the religion's doctrine, but he'd never ever insult the people practicing it personally unless they were specifically telling him that his lifestyle is wrong/unnatural/whatever excuse they come up with.

[Shining Raichu]

Originally Posted by Alternative

Yes it is. That's the point I'm trying to make, that gays bashing on religious people who think your morals are wrong is the same. It's like saying a gay person, or someone of a different race or something else which isn't a choice is allowed to make fun of a fat person because that lifestyle is a choice.

What I'm trying to say is that you can't go about treating other people like crap because you don't agree with them or their lifestyle or vice versa.

In essence, I'm discriminating against discrimination. Or at least the institution I believe perpetuates it.

I would rather not be like this. I would prefer to just be able to get married or do whatever I want and be left alone. But that's not possible, and I get to be angry at the people responsible for that. I'm not sure where I'm losing you on this point. I'm not treating anybody like crap. All I said was that I have the right to hate the people who hurt me. I haven't even said anything bad about them yet, just that I - we - have the right to. Shouldn't people wait until I actually say something against religion before they begin to lynch me?

[deoxys121]

Originally Posted by Shining Raichu

Welcome, Rossay! I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts with me, you might find some responses in the post below.



First of all, in no way is it even nearly similar to picking on fat people because being fat is a choice. If the fat people were discriminating against the race based on something inherent in their fatness, then that would be another thing altogether.

I'm not discriminating against anyone, and I'm certainly not a bully. I'm not hating on a group of people. The term 'religion' is a blanket term because quite frankly specifying the exact kind of people I'm talking about every time I talk about them would be exhausting. I'm not raging against anyone for being religious or believing in God, because I know that not all of these people are hating on me. I'm hating on the specific ones that are of the belief that homosexuality is wrong. I figured that would be implied, this being a thread on the subject of homosexuality.

And you know what? I'm entitled to that. I'm entitled to be angry and to express that here of all places, and I resent any implication otherwise. At no time will you ever see me attack any aspect of religion other than its oppressive side, because outside of that, I have no problems with it.

Well, I personally don't believe being fat is always a choice, but that's another topic.

And you're right. You are entitled to your freedom of speech. Just my personal opinion is it is almost always wrong to counter hatred with more hatred. Two wrongs don't make a right. It's a cliche, but it's true.