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  #526    
Old August 10th, 2011 (09:23 PM).
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This is why I'm agnostic. I believe religion causes a lot of moral problems. No offense to anyone religious. But even religious parents have to accept their children for who they are. I just wish instead of sending their children to camps, they would learn about homosexuality and know that there is nothing wrong with it.
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  #527    
Old August 10th, 2011 (09:24 PM).
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Quote originally posted by deoxys121:
Though we don't agree with what gay reform camps try to do, do you think they have good intentions, and what they do is out of love and not hate? Or do you think they treat these like a prison for gays to become "rehabilitated" in the eyes of their religion?
Ultimately it doesn't matter what their intentions are, the point is they are wrong and need to stop immediately. However I truly do believe that their intentions are not good - rehabilitation of gays just screams "agenda". They're trying to fix what they don't want to bother understanding - usually in the name of Jesus Christ - and it's nothing short of disgusting.
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  #528    
Old August 10th, 2011 (09:28 PM).
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My answer to my own question is that, though it initially seems that they might have good intentions, it ultimately boils down to them treating gays like inferiors or like they're evil. I believe the latter of my question is true, that they see them as a prison to send those who go against their views and try to "rehabilitate" them, and then when they can't change it, they view it as the person's fault for being an "abomination". And, therefore, they treat them worse than I would treat my worst enemy. I truly believe that it is possible for someone to be religious and not be homophobic, but that sight is a very rare one.
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  #529    
Old August 10th, 2011 (09:29 PM).
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Hard to tell, the camps may do it for the sake of "preventing people from going to hell" but that's still prejudice. They're still doing it because "homosexuality is wrong". I believe they do it out of hate more than love. It's a prison that tries to change the unchangeable.
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  #530    
Old August 10th, 2011 (10:17 PM).
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Well it seems to be from what I've seen, With religious folk, (and no offence if your not like this but) it's a case of "It's different to our norms, so we hate it and don't want to understand it". So yeah.
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Old August 10th, 2011 (10:21 PM).
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Quote originally posted by NurseBarbra:
Well it seems to be from what I've seen, With religious folk, (and no offence if your not like this but) it's a case of "It's different to our norms, so we hate it and don't want to understand it". So yeah.
It's mostly older religious folk; in the same way that my 82 year old great aunt still holds a grudge towards Jews because that's how the church was in her time. As the times changed, the churches adapted somewhat, and people growing up in the church now should be taught today's teachings, which are much more lenient.
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  #532    
Old August 10th, 2011 (11:15 PM).
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Well, I couldn't tell you... I think people do it for a lot of different reasons. Some may genuinely think that it's what's best for their kid, while others may just want to get rid of them.
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  #533    
Old August 10th, 2011 (11:28 PM).
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Even if they do it because they genuinely think it's best, that's still prejudice. They don't bother to learn about it or even consider that homosexuality isn't bad. Even if it's their best intentions, the fact is, it proves they think it's wrong. And that in itself, is wrong.
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  #534    
Old August 10th, 2011 (11:55 PM). Edited August 11th, 2011 by -ty-.
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I think that the camps take advantage of the parents and children and give them misinformation. But I think the parents' intentions are good, although they are ignorant to the scientific truth that sexuality can't be changed, because these camps tell them it is possible without scientific or religious proof. They give parents anecdotal information about gay people who have turned straight, but the majority of them are not able to feign the change in their sexual transformation.
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  #535    
Old August 11th, 2011 (12:00 AM).
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I'd like to join!

As to the question. I think they think they have good intentions. I don't know too much about them. I mean I read a fictional book where a character goes there but that's all.

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  #536    
Old August 11th, 2011 (12:07 AM).
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Quote originally posted by -ty-:
although they are ignorant to the scientific truth that sexuality can be changed,
I'd like to see proof of that. I highly doubt all homosexuals are able to change. I've seen situations where the person feels guilty and wants to change, but still can't. I HIGHLY doubt they can change if they were born that way.
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  #537    
Old August 11th, 2011 (12:08 AM).
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Quote originally posted by U_Flame:
I'd like to see proof of that. I highly doubt all homosexuals are able to change. I've seen situations where the person feels guilty and wants to change, but still can't. I HIGHLY doubt they can change if they were born that way.
Using context clues in his posts, it looks a lot like a typo.
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  #538    
Old August 11th, 2011 (12:20 AM).
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Oh, I really hope it is a typo.
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  #539    
Old August 11th, 2011 (12:22 AM).
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Well how could he think that the camps give misinformation and have no scientific evidence and that most "fixed" people are faking it if he thinks that sexuality can be changed? :P
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  #540    
Old August 11th, 2011 (12:24 AM).
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True. But my message still applies to people who do think they can change. You know who you are.
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  #541    
Old August 11th, 2011 (12:25 AM).
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  #542    
Old August 11th, 2011 (05:11 AM).
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Well I've wanted to join for a while, but there's a reason why I have that timid nature. I'm a bit of wuss too so my awnser to everything is pretty much "why can't we alll just be friends." >.<

I hang around a crowd thats like 80% gay or bi and they're really interesting people. I consider myself straight, however, simply because I doubt I could ever get emotionally close to a boy. I have a bit of a fear/hatred of men which I really don't like :/ I've had too many bad experiences with men and I know it isn't the entire gender, but I just can't convince myself. I have been trying to lower my guard around them and trying to give them a chance, but everytime a guy stabs me in the back and pushes me further along the dislike.

As for the question. Pretty similar feel to a few other folks here. I can't see any possible reason as to why there would be good intentions coming from the institution itself, but I CAN see how the parents might be concerned. That's as far as I'll go though. I'd rather stay out of any violent disputes. *hides inside of the great shell of timidness*
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  #543    
Old August 11th, 2011 (06:20 AM).
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Hi Snow Phoenix! Welcome!

Just out of interest, do you consider yourself straight simply because of your bad experiences with men and your subsequent fear of them, or is it also because you have no sexual attraction to them? Because when considering sexuality, sexual attraction is really all that you take into account. What interests your body, not your heart. I'm sure I'll be shot for stating that as an absolute rather than my opinion, but I think that's how it is really . I'm really sorry to hear about your experiences though.
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  #544    
Old August 11th, 2011 (06:38 AM).
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To be honest... I don't even know sometimes. There is some attraction to men, but then I think it's just psychological to fill in the void of feeling disconnected from my own gender. But, then again... the thought of the female body parts... just seems so foreign @-@ And I've never really ever been sexually attracted to the physical features of a woman... while I have of men. Nyeh. In the long run though... I'm gonna go after what the heart wants. I want a stable family more than anything and a relationship run on want the body wants imo doesn't seem like it'd work for what I want.

I've never really been able to believe in a solely physical relationship. I'm too suspicious.
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  #545    
Old August 11th, 2011 (07:04 AM).
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Well the relationship you have would in no way be solely physical, however there's no denying that physical attraction is an important part of it. If you're not attracted to women and you are attracted to men, then it seems like you have issues you need to overcome so that you can be happy. Because just like a relationship based on only the physical would be doomed from the start, a romantic and loving relationship that has no basis in the physical whatsoever would be equally unsuccessful.

Basically what I'm saying is if you are gay and enter into a relationship with a woman because you feel it can be more stable, then in the end it won't be. It will take some work to deal with the problems you have with men, but ultimately the person who you end up with is going to want all of you, and giving them anything less than that will make them unhappy and then you by extension. I want you to be happy, so just think on that
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  #546    
Old August 11th, 2011 (07:11 AM).
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That last line >.< It scares me ;.; It's the many times that I've heard that. Not you personally.

And I have taken that in to consideration. Which is why I've been leaning towards becoming attracted to women. I have a girlfriend of whom I love very much. She's supportive and doesn't mind that I'm not the straightest man out there. If anything right now... I'm working towards supporting what the heart ones. Although if I ever did manage to fall in love with a man, then I'd just as equally work to supporting that too. I try to keep myself open, but still there's that trauma lingering.
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  #547    
Old August 11th, 2011 (07:29 AM).
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Snow Phoenix, you are exactly right when you say you need to support what your heart wants. Generally speaking, if your heart is telling you "Go for it," then that's what's gonna make you the happiest. If it feels right, don't worry about what other people are gonna say about what you do; just do it. I know what you mean about the trauma lingering, but once you put that trauma aside and just go for what you think is right, you'll be amazed how great it makes you feel.
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  #548    
Old August 11th, 2011 (09:04 AM).
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On the subject of parents who send their kids to "reform" camps: they might have good intentions. They might not. However, they should be able to see the consequences of their actions. They have the capacity to look beyond their intentions and see the reality, which is that these camps don't actually change gay people and, moreover, there is nothing wrong that needs changing.

Quote originally posted by Shining Raichu:
Because just like a relationship based on only the physical would be doomed from the start, a romantic and loving relationship that has no basis in the physical whatsoever would be equally unsuccessful.
I wouldn't say this is necessarily true. It all depends on the people involved and what they're looking for. A physical relationship might not be as likely to become a long term relationship, but if neither person is looking for that then could still have a successful relationship.
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  #549    
Old August 11th, 2011 (12:09 PM).
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Quote originally posted by U_Flame:
I'd like to see proof of that. I highly doubt all homosexuals are able to change. I've seen situations where the person feels guilty and wants to change, but still can't. I HIGHLY doubt they can change if they were born that way.
"they are ignorant to the truth that it can't be changed" *fixed*

I am pretty sure you could tell what I meant in context however. Next time quote the whole thing so it is not taken out of context.
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Old August 11th, 2011 (01:21 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Scarf:
On the subject of parents who send their kids to "reform" camps: they might have good intentions. They might not. However, they should be able to see the consequences of their actions. They have the capacity to look beyond their intentions and see the reality, which is that these camps don't actually change gay people and, moreover, there is nothing wrong that needs changing.


I wouldn't say this is necessarily true. It all depends on the people involved and what they're looking for. A physical relationship might not be as likely to become a long term relationship, but if neither person is looking for that then could still have a successful relationship.
To each his own, I suppose. I was told that same thing once before, but it's still hard for me to accept. It just seems too artificial and unfullfilling. Then again it's between those persons and none of my buisness :3 I can respect an individuals own choice.

And thank you deoxy <3 That means a lot. Well I probably tend to over romanticize things, but I still appreciated it. I hope that eventually I'll come to terms with things.
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