Notices
For all updates, view the main page.

Fan Clubs & Groups Fan Clubs & Groups are places to go to find like-minded members and talk about similar interests. Join or create a club here if it doesn't fit in any of the other sections.
New threads in this forum are to be approved by a moderator before they are displayed.

 
 
Thread Tools
  #1501    
Old November 19th, 2011 (11:33 PM).
FreakyLocz14's Avatar
FreakyLocz14 FreakyLocz14 is offline
Conservative Patriot
Platinum Tier
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Gender: Male
Nature: Jolly
Posts: 3,482
Of course I'm kidding, guys.

Relevant Advertising!

  #1502    
Old November 20th, 2011 (6:20 AM).
Ctrl.Alt.Geak's Avatar
Ctrl.Alt.Geak Ctrl.Alt.Geak is offline
Swords Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Nature: Lonely
Posts: 176
How long did you spend in denial or self-hate before realising and coming to terms with the fact that you're gay/trans/whatever?
Pretty much my whole time spent in highschool was my denial/self-hate period. I came to terms with it when I left school, I think it really gave me time to clear my head and because I was by myself all the time I had the time to be myself without worrying what others thought.
Recently though I've began to wonder if I am trans. Its not something I want to think about too much at the moment, but it does play on my mind quite a bit.


For gay/lesbian people, when you were in the closet, were you ever directly asked your sexuality? How did you respond?

Yes, I've been asked by a few people. I just give the calmest "no" I can and try to change the subject in a totally unsuspicious way. Sometimes I'll throw in the cliche "I just havent found the right person yet" speech.
__________________

  #1503    
Old November 20th, 2011 (7:29 AM).
Nakuzami's Avatar
Nakuzami Nakuzami is offline
Children of Fate
Crystal Tier
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Ylisse
Age: 18
Gender: Female
Nature: Jolly
Posts: 5,601
Do you feel sexual orientation and gender identity should be grouped together in the gay rights movement? Should they be grouped together at all?

Well, I don't think that they're the same thing, at all, but both groups are discriminated against and if both groups fight alongside each other, there's probably a bigger chance of success. Killing two birds with one stone, I guess.

Spoiler:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shining Raichu View Post
Do you feel that transgender people reinforce gender stereotypes, break them down, or do anything either way?

I must say, I've never really thought about this. I don't know that they do anything for gender stereotypes either way. Gender stereotypes are perpetuated by those who are so obsessed with being seen a certain way that they need to follow the stereotypes in order to feel comfortable with themselves. If transgendered people do this, it's not all that different - no better or worse - than a macho straight man crushing a beer can on his forehead.

Have you ever witnessed/experienced any anti-trans sentiments/actions (or been the 'culprit' yourself)? If you did how did you respond (or what made you act that way)?

Not to my recollection. Honestly, before joining this club, the transgender community was simply not on my radar. I didn't know any transgendered people (or if I did, I was oblivious to it) and I never gave the issue much thought. So I was not presented with any opportunities to either react to transphobic behaviour or partake in it myself. I honestly don't know how I might have reacted, though being gay myself and not particularly invested in showing off stereotypical male behaviour as a denial tool, I think it would have been fairly hypocritical of me to judge or discriminate against the transgender community. Though as I'm a non-confrontational person, I'm not sure I would have had the courage to do anything about it if I saw it either. Now that I'm a more confident person in general, though, things might be different.


Ima have to go with this. I don't think I've ever really met any transgender people- and if I have I didn't realize it- so I never really paid it much thought. If I were to see any transphobic behavior, I would most likely stand up for them (unless they were like, I dunno, a bunch of 17-year-olds that could easily mutilate me if I said anything. Then I'd be a chicken and. . . do something that won't get me killed, lol X3)

For gay/lesbian people, when you were in the closet, were you ever directly asked your sexuality? How did you respond?

And I just remembered something to add on to this. . .
A while ago, last year probably, one of my friends (she's a girl, she also has a gay older brother that I've never met) asked me if I was gay/bi or whatever. I remember answering with "I dunno. . . possibly?" And. . . well, that's the closest thing I've said to "yes" in one of those situations. Lol, I wonder if she remembers that? xD

. . . It also doesn't help that my brother keeps asking me if I have a girlfriend yet, or if there are girls that I think are cute, and then he moves on to say uh. . . straight sexual remarks, I guess. That is so annoying sometimes. . . :/
__________________
A burdened heart sinks into the ground
A veil falls away without a sound
Not day nor night, wrong nor right
For truth and peace you fight
Sing with me a song of silence and blood
The rain falls, but can't wash away the mud
Within my ancient heart dwells madness and pride
Can no one hear my cry

Embrace the dark you call a home,
Gaze upon an empty, white throne
A legacy of lies,
A familiar disguise
Sing with me a song of conquest and fate
The black pillar cracks beneath its weight
Night breaks through the day, hard as a stone
Lost in thoughts all alone
In the white light, a hand reaches through
A double-edged blade cuts your heart in two
Waking dreams fade away,
Embrace the brand-new day
Sing with me a song of birthrights and love
The light scatters to the sky above
Dawn breaks through the gloom, white as a bone
Lost in thoughts all alone


In endless dreams, countless realms collide
Hope falls only to rise like the changing tide
But all dreams come to an end,
Just whispers on the wind
Sing with me one last time, for light's sacrifice,
Endless dawn came but not without a price,
Lost in the waves there glimmers, a pale blue stone.
I think of you, all alone
  #1504    
Old November 20th, 2011 (10:59 AM).
Esper's Avatar
Esper Esper is offline
cosmic explorer
Silver Tier
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: California
Posts: 9,520
Ineffable~, if you don't mind my asking, what got your sister to change her song?


I'm pretty pleased to read that everyone's cool with having a big inclusive group. Not that I doubted you. :3 I'm so pleased I want to ask a follow-up question.

How would you feel if the queer movement wanted to include other people who face discrimination, such as people who are discriminated against because of their weight, or a disability?
__________________
  #1505    
Old November 20th, 2011 (12:06 PM).
Nakuzami's Avatar
Nakuzami Nakuzami is offline
Children of Fate
Crystal Tier
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Ylisse
Age: 18
Gender: Female
Nature: Jolly
Posts: 5,601
How would you feel if the queer movement wanted to include other people who face discrimination, such as people who are discriminated against because of their weight, or a disability?

Well... I'm honestly not sure. I mean, yeah, then there'd be one huge group of people fighting against discrimination, but many of those people are discriminated against more than others, for different reasons. Some people in one group could even discriminate against someone from another group.
Though, if you could get all of those people together and have all of them fighting against discrimination... that'd be one massive group, and I guess you could start by eliminating discrimination between all of those groups, which is already quite an accomplishment.
I guess we can say I have neutral feelings for this idea?

I'm not quite sure if I said that all correctly/clearly, lol.
__________________
A burdened heart sinks into the ground
A veil falls away without a sound
Not day nor night, wrong nor right
For truth and peace you fight
Sing with me a song of silence and blood
The rain falls, but can't wash away the mud
Within my ancient heart dwells madness and pride
Can no one hear my cry

Embrace the dark you call a home,
Gaze upon an empty, white throne
A legacy of lies,
A familiar disguise
Sing with me a song of conquest and fate
The black pillar cracks beneath its weight
Night breaks through the day, hard as a stone
Lost in thoughts all alone
In the white light, a hand reaches through
A double-edged blade cuts your heart in two
Waking dreams fade away,
Embrace the brand-new day
Sing with me a song of birthrights and love
The light scatters to the sky above
Dawn breaks through the gloom, white as a bone
Lost in thoughts all alone


In endless dreams, countless realms collide
Hope falls only to rise like the changing tide
But all dreams come to an end,
Just whispers on the wind
Sing with me one last time, for light's sacrifice,
Endless dawn came but not without a price,
Lost in the waves there glimmers, a pale blue stone.
I think of you, all alone
  #1506    
Old November 20th, 2011 (12:47 PM).
-Jared-'s Avatar
-Jared- -Jared- is offline
Certified Responsible Adult
Crystal Tier
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Northern California
Age: 25
Gender: Male
Nature: Gentle
Posts: 1,820
How would you feel if the queer movement wanted to include other people who face discrimination, such as people who are discriminated against because of their weight, or a disability?

I kinda feel like Nakuzami feels. Like, if it was decided that they would join us, I would be all "Sure come on in!" Because yeah, discrimination is wrong, so we don't want ANY.

On the other hand, one massive anti-discrimination group might be too large to be effective. :\ It would be difficult to keep track of everything, and some groups might harbor discriminatory feelings toward another group with the larger group. :\

Basically, I think, maybe rather than include them in the LGBTQIPAAOS group, maybe we could help them create their own group that focuses on helping them. That way, they could focus on helping themselves, which might be more effective.

I hope that makes sense. :\ I don't wanna exclude, but I think separate entities might be more effective.
__________________
  #1507    
Old November 20th, 2011 (2:14 PM).
Ineffable~'s Avatar
Ineffable~ Ineffable~ is offline
DAT SNARKITUDE
Crystal Tier
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Any ol' place really
Age: 22
Gender: Female
Nature: Naive
Posts: 2,742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarf View Post
Ineffable~, if you don't mind my asking, what got your sister to change her song?
I honestly don't even know. She's kind of all over the place about it but lately she's given me a supportive vibe. For all I know she still thinks these things and just doesn't vocalise it any more. However living in the place she is with the people she hangs out with has changed her world view considerably from what my parents tend to think, so that may be it.


How would you feel if the queer movement wanted to include other people who face discrimination, such as people who are discriminated against because of their weight, or a disability?
Despite not really agreeing with the idea, I actually love when people propose this. It just makes me feel people are thinking the right way.
Almost nothing bothers me more than when someone says they "hate fat people" and I feel I hear it FAR more often than any gay or trans-related comments.
Regardless, I agree with Pikapal in the sense that I think it would be too large and unwieldy to join completely with groups like these; I mean after all we can ally without actually being one and the same.
Besides, I think we already fight together through things like "end discrimination" campaigns. Despite their obvious emphasis, discrimination means discrimination so when we fight against it, we fight for everyone.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ctrl.Alt.Geak View Post
Recently though I've began to wonder if I am trans. Its not something I want to think about too much at the moment, but it does play on my mind quite a bit.
What makes you think that, if you don't mind me asking?
__________________

#077: Ponyta - The Fire Horse Pokémon
Fire ~ Field eggs
3'03" ~ 66.1lbs ~ 50/50

Its hooves are 10 times harder
than diamonds. It can trample
anything completely flat in moments.

Abilities: Run Away or Flash Fire or Flame Body
Moves: Growl, Flame Wheel, Stomp, Agility
Locations: Pokémon Mansion

Cry

Other names:

jp: ポニータ (Ponyta)
de: Ponita
fr: Ponyta
cn: 小火馬 (Xiǎohuǒmǎ)


  #1508    
Old November 20th, 2011 (7:42 PM).
U.Flame's Avatar
U.Flame U.Flame is offline
Brony Hacker
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sapphire City in future Hoenn
Age: 21
Gender: Male
Nature: Jolly
Posts: 1,240
Finally, internet! Time to catch up. I agree that anti-discrimination groups should stay with their subjects, like ours being sexuality. But some kind of occasional anti-discrimination get-together would be nice.
__________________
Hacks I'm working on:
Pokemon Sapphire Hoenn's Rebirth - My own hack, making progress whenever possible.
3rd Gen Multiplayer Project - Research and development, occasionally testing, sometimes with support.
Pokemon Cursed/Creepy White - Group project, on hiatus for now with plans to return eventually.
Animal Crossing Wild World playing as an animal - experimental, messing with models and textures

Hacks I've worked on in the past:
Pokemon Ruby Destiny Broken Timeline (pre-reboot) - Assisted with maps
Pokemon HeartGold Prince Boo Edition - Experimental project with three small changes. Made at the request of YouTube LPer PrinceBoo21.

Been super busy with work, life, and laptop problems. Hopefully I can get back into it soon, I fear I'm already rusty. Meanwhile I'm considering writing some of my hacks as a series of fanfics.

Times I've been ninja'd: 18
Times I've ninja'd people: 3
  #1509    
Old November 21st, 2011 (5:21 AM).
Shining Raichu's Avatar
Shining Raichu Shining Raichu is offline
Emile Hersch turned 30 today. Who the hell is Emile Hersch?
Platinum Tier
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Australia
Age: 25
Gender: Male
Nature: Adamant
Posts: 9,055
How would you feel if the queer movement wanted to include other people who face discrimination, such as people who are discriminated against because of their weight, or a disability?

While discrimination against anybody is of course wrong, I'm more cautious about grouping us together with people who face a different kind of discrimination. Being overweight in particular, discrimination aside, is a problem that needs to be fixed. It's a health issue that does require a remedy because it impacts upon the quality of life. By saying that, I'm not saying that discrimination against overweight people is justified by any means, but I have to wonder whether grouping the LGBT plight with that would send across the image that homosexuality too is a problem that needs fixing. I think that it would end up being detrimental to both causes. And that comes from someone who is gay and also used to be extremely overweight.

That said, I would be more than happy to help out in any anti-discrimination campaign, but I don't think that they should be linked together. It would be confusing for the public image.

Additionally, the LGBT community's movement is incredibly specific. In addition to ending the discrimination we face, we are also campaigning for specific rights. The right to marry, the right to serve our countries, the right to adopt etc. It doesn't make much sense for other minority groups that are discriminated against to join a fight in which they have no direct interest. Our fight is specific to us.

If all of us wronged parties wish to come together and help each other with our battles then I think that would be amazing, but for official purposes I think the causes need to remain separate.
__________________

"So this is why God bombed us."

Moderator of General Chat

  #1510    
Old November 21st, 2011 (5:55 AM).
Ctrl.Alt.Geak's Avatar
Ctrl.Alt.Geak Ctrl.Alt.Geak is offline
Swords Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Nature: Lonely
Posts: 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ineffable~ View Post

What makes you think that, if you don't mind me asking?
I cant really 100% say for sure why I think this to be honest. I guess a lot of it comes from the idea that, for as long as I've been able to choose what I can wear, I've always cross-dressed and I feel its a huge compliment when someone mistakes my gender. Also I've always had a lot of hate towards my own body, especially through puberty.
Of course what makes me re-think all of this is how I cant stand the opposite sex physically (so I why would I want to change my body to that).
__________________

  #1511    
Old November 21st, 2011 (10:25 AM).
Esper's Avatar
Esper Esper is offline
cosmic explorer
Silver Tier
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: California
Posts: 9,520
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ineffable~ View Post

I honestly don't even know. She's kind of all over the place about it but lately she's given me a supportive vibe. For all I know she still thinks these things and just doesn't vocalise it any more. However living in the place she is with the people she hangs out with has changed her world view considerably from what my parents tend to think, so that may be it.
I hope she's changed her mind for the better. I know I sometimes worry that people think things and say different things and that kind of worrying is just unhealthy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by U_Flame View Post
Finally, internet! Time to catch up. I agree that anti-discrimination groups should stay with their subjects, like ours being sexuality. But some kind of occasional anti-discrimination get-together would be nice.
But that's kind of what I was getting at a few posts ago. Trans people are not about sexuality (though some can be). It's about gender identity which is a separate thing even if it's sort of related. That's why I was asking about the whole mixing of different goals and groups and whether it would be good or not. Some gay people might not care so much for gender identity issues and a trans person might be more concerned with that than gay marriage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ctrl.Alt.Geak View Post
I cant really 100% say for sure why I think this to be honest. I guess a lot of it comes from the idea that, for as long as I've been able to choose what I can wear, I've always cross-dressed and I feel its a huge compliment when someone mistakes my gender. Also I've always had a lot of hate towards my own body, especially through puberty.
Of course what makes me re-think all of this is how I cant stand the opposite sex physically (so I why would I want to change my body to that).
When you say you can't stand the opposite sex physically do you mean that 1) they are the opposite sex of the sex you were given at birth and 2) that you are not attracted to that sex or that you can't stand the thought of being that sex? I'm just a little unsure which you mean, but I can say that it's perfectly normal for someone who is trans to be attracted to one sex or the other, or both, or none at all, regardless of what their own gender is. If that is something which is making you doubt what you're feeling, well, there's no need.

Body hatred is something a lot of trans people feel, but it's also something that non-trans people feel, too, of course. (And of course there are trans people who don't feel this, and so on.) I guess what I'm trying to say is that instead of trying to pinpoint a term I'd encourage you just to do whatever you feel suits you best and not worry about the terminology. If you prefer to be thought of and addressed as one particular sex then you should let people know that. If you just want to dress a certain way without wanting other parts of your identity to be different then you should do that. I know it can be nice to say "I'm _____" and having some camaraderie with other people who are the same, but I would hope you'd be happier being true to yourself and carving out an identity for yourself. If it turns out that you're trans then good for you. If it turns out that you're asexual and genderfluid then good for you, too. As long as you're happy with yourself that's what matters.
__________________
  #1512    
Old November 21st, 2011 (11:18 AM).
Ineffable~'s Avatar
Ineffable~ Ineffable~ is offline
DAT SNARKITUDE
Crystal Tier
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Any ol' place really
Age: 22
Gender: Female
Nature: Naive
Posts: 2,742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarf View Post
But that's kind of what I was getting at a few posts ago. Trans people are not about sexuality (though some can be). It's about gender identity which is a separate thing even if it's sort of related. That's why I was asking about the whole mixing of different goals and groups and whether it would be good or not. Some gay people might not care so much for gender identity issues and a trans person might be more concerned with that than gay marriage.
The reason I see T together with LGB is because our struggles are similar and we fight for similar rights. People who are overweight and homeless have a problem that is solvable and that they weren't born with as a condition. (I realise people can be born into homelessness or inherit the "fat gene" or be born as big babies, however you're not born at 500 pounds and you're not born at a time where you don't have plenty of your life left, like older homeless do. I hope that makes sense.) LGBT people on the other hand don't have problems and we don't need to "solve" being gay, bi, lesbian or trans. It's not unhealthy to be gay, bi, lesbian or trans. Also the general consensus is that we were born this way. (People will disagree with this but it's what most of us say, so it's general consensus.) Most importantly, however, we all face issues such as gay marriage, coming out, pride, discrimination (most people that discriminate against gay people discriminate against trans people too, at least from what I've seen) among other things. For example, a trans woman marrying a man would be legally regarded as a gay marriage if the woman hasn't changed her legal gender to female. Also, from my own perspective, in some states I can't be married to a woman and be legally regarded as female at the same time, leaving my own transition and marriage at odds. Thus I think most trans people, gay or not, will benefit from gay marriage being made legal.
. . . Sorry about the weird disorganised wall of text. ~_~

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ctrl.Alt.Geak View Post
I cant really 100% say for sure why I think this to be honest. I guess a lot of it comes from the idea that, for as long as I've been able to choose what I can wear, I've always cross-dressed and I feel its a huge compliment when someone mistakes my gender. Also I've always had a lot of hate towards my own body, especially through puberty.
Of course what makes me re-think all of this is how I cant stand the opposite sex physically (so I why would I want to change my body to that).
Scarf stole most of what I was about to say but I can still be semi-helpful lol.
I can't speak completely from the perspective of a heterosexual woman since I'm not one, but I'm sure for a totally heterosexual woman it's just as disgusting the idea of having sex with a woman despite being a woman herself . . . if that makes sense. Also there are even lesbian trans women I've known that have had something similar to disgust when having sex with a woman (as a man). That is to say, she would feel horrible and depressed and start crying due to the whole position being wrong.

By all this I mean I don't think being disgusted with the opposite sex is any reason to doubt being trans. Other than that I think you should try some of Scarf's ideas. Just do whatever makes you feel comfortable.
__________________

#077: Ponyta - The Fire Horse Pokémon
Fire ~ Field eggs
3'03" ~ 66.1lbs ~ 50/50

Its hooves are 10 times harder
than diamonds. It can trample
anything completely flat in moments.

Abilities: Run Away or Flash Fire or Flame Body
Moves: Growl, Flame Wheel, Stomp, Agility
Locations: Pokémon Mansion

Cry

Other names:

jp: ポニータ (Ponyta)
de: Ponita
fr: Ponyta
cn: 小火馬 (Xiǎohuǒmǎ)


  #1513    
Old November 21st, 2011 (11:37 AM).
Esper's Avatar
Esper Esper is offline
cosmic explorer
Silver Tier
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: California
Posts: 9,520
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ineffable~ View Post
The reason I see T together with LGB is because our struggles are similar and we fight for similar rights. People who are overweight and homeless have a problem that is solvable and that they weren't born with as a condition. (I realise people can be born into homelessness or inherit the "fat gene" or be born as big babies, however you're not born at 500 pounds and you're not born at a time where you don't have plenty of your life left, like older homeless do. I hope that makes sense.) LGBT people on the other hand don't have problems and we don't need to "solve" being gay, bi, lesbian or trans. It's not unhealthy to be gay, bi, lesbian or trans. Also the general consensus is that we were born this way. (People will disagree with this but it's what most of us say, so it's general consensus.) Most importantly, however, we all face issues such as gay marriage, coming out, pride, discrimination (most people that discriminate against gay people discriminate against trans people too, at least from what I've seen) among other things. For example, a trans woman marrying a man would be legally regarded as a gay marriage if the woman hasn't changed her legal gender to female. Also, from my own perspective, in some states I can't be married to a woman and be legally regarded as female at the same time, leaving my own transition and marriage at odds. Thus I think most trans people, gay or not, will benefit from gay marriage being made legal.
. . . Sorry about the weird disorganised wall of text. ~_~
That wasn't disorganized. Don't worry. And I pretty much agree with everything you said.

Now I'm kind of regretting using overweight people as my example though. I wanted to bring up the idea of gay rights in conjunction with women's rights and the rights of racial minorities since those are people who can face discrimination for something that they shouldn't. I just didn't want to turn the conversation toward a discussion about feminism and racism since, I dunno, I didn't think people would want to talk about those topics here.
__________________
  #1514    
Old November 21st, 2011 (11:57 AM).
Oryx's Avatar
Oryx Oryx is offline
CoquettishCat
Crystal Tier
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Age: 23
Gender: Female
Nature: Relaxed
Posts: 13,206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarf View Post
That wasn't disorganized. Don't worry. And I pretty much agree with everything you said.

Now I'm kind of regretting using overweight people as my example though. I wanted to bring up the idea of gay rights in conjunction with women's rights and the rights of racial minorities since those are people who can face discrimination for something that they shouldn't. I just didn't want to turn the conversation toward a discussion about feminism and racism since, I dunno, I didn't think people would want to talk about those topics here.
As far as sexism, I feel like that is included in a way. I mean, many lesbians prefer to be more 'butch' which brings up the issues of whether or not that's how a 'real' woman acts, etc. So I feel like while the issue itself might not often be included in name, it's always implicitly involved in LGBT issues.

As far as racism, I honestly think that that issue is strongest on its own. While people still openly can say "I think gay marriage is wrong", it's pretty much an accepted truth (at least among the educated) that for example being against interracial marriage is wrong and such. Because it's been so widely accepted that being racist is 'wrong', while for LGBT issues it's not as widely accepted yet, I feel bundling the two together would weaken the stance that racism takes because instead of people seeing the connection and taking as strong a stance about LGBT issues, they might instead see the connection and take a less strong stance on racism issues.
__________________


Theme * Pair * VM * PM

Not all men...

Are all men stupid?

That's right.

  #1515    
Old November 21st, 2011 (12:05 PM).
Ineffable~'s Avatar
Ineffable~ Ineffable~ is offline
DAT SNARKITUDE
Crystal Tier
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Any ol' place really
Age: 22
Gender: Female
Nature: Naive
Posts: 2,742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarf View Post
That wasn't disorganized. Don't worry. And I pretty much agree with everything you said.
Yay. :3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toujours View Post


As far as sexism, I feel like that is included in a way. I mean, many lesbians prefer to be more 'butch' which brings up the issues of whether or not that's how a 'real' woman acts, etc. So I feel like while the issue itself might not often be included in name, it's always implicitly involved in LGBT issues.

As far as racism, I honestly think that that issue is strongest on its own. While people still openly can say "I think gay marriage is wrong", it's pretty much an accepted truth (at least among the educated) that for example being against interracial marriage is wrong and such. Because it's been so widely accepted that being racist is 'wrong', while for LGBT issues it's not as widely accepted yet, I feel bundling the two together would weaken the stance that racism takes because instead of people seeing the connection and taking as strong a stance about LGBT issues, they might instead see the connection and take a less strong stance on racism issues.
This this this omg.

. . . To keep this from being a spam post I'll just say I also think racial minorities and women/men are just too "common". I mean I would be incredibly surprised at anyone who's never seen a male or a female in their life, and racial minorities, despite being minorities, are quite common in America. My point being LGBT people are not all over the map like some people, and people often don't have to think about the issue at all because they don't meet gay or trans people. Also, even if they did meet gay or trans people, they wouldn't know it because it's not a "visible" condition. The only way you can perfectly tell if someone is gay is if they either tell you or they walk around with their significant other being cute. I have known tonnes of people who claim to have never met a lesbian before me, and at least four people in this thread have never met a trans person before (and probably WAY more than that).
__________________

#077: Ponyta - The Fire Horse Pokémon
Fire ~ Field eggs
3'03" ~ 66.1lbs ~ 50/50

Its hooves are 10 times harder
than diamonds. It can trample
anything completely flat in moments.

Abilities: Run Away or Flash Fire or Flame Body
Moves: Growl, Flame Wheel, Stomp, Agility
Locations: Pokémon Mansion

Cry

Other names:

jp: ポニータ (Ponyta)
de: Ponita
fr: Ponyta
cn: 小火馬 (Xiǎohuǒmǎ)


  #1516    
Old November 21st, 2011 (12:28 PM).
Esper's Avatar
Esper Esper is offline
cosmic explorer
Silver Tier
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: California
Posts: 9,520
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toujours View Post
As far as sexism, I feel like that is included in a way. I mean, many lesbians prefer to be more 'butch' which brings up the issues of whether or not that's how a 'real' woman acts, etc. So I feel like while the issue itself might not often be included in name, it's always implicitly involved in LGBT issues.

As far as racism, I honestly think that that issue is strongest on its own. While people still openly can say "I think gay marriage is wrong", it's pretty much an accepted truth (at least among the educated) that for example being against interracial marriage is wrong and such. Because it's been so widely accepted that being racist is 'wrong', while for LGBT issues it's not as widely accepted yet, I feel bundling the two together would weaken the stance that racism takes because instead of people seeing the connection and taking as strong a stance about LGBT issues, they might instead see the connection and take a less strong stance on racism issues.
I think it's interesting that when I used the terms "women's rights" and "feminism" you used the term "sexism". Just observing.

But before I totally derail this thread I do want to point out that the gay rights movement as a whole has a very white face and there are some varying levels of, if not racism, then racial ... ignorance? ... within it. Like a gay friend of mine has told me that there a lot of gay men who have a "no fats, no Asians" policy when it comes to dating and are very public about this. I personally don't like to see other issues/groups getting sidelined for one group's cause.
__________________
  #1517    
Old November 21st, 2011 (12:45 PM).
Ineffable~'s Avatar
Ineffable~ Ineffable~ is offline
DAT SNARKITUDE
Crystal Tier
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Any ol' place really
Age: 22
Gender: Female
Nature: Naive
Posts: 2,742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarf View Post
Like a gay friend of mine has told me that there a lot of gay men who have a "no fats, no Asians" policy when it comes to dating and are very public about this. I personally don't like to see other issues/groups getting sidelined for one group's cause.
Gay people excluding or being racist is its own problem. I don't think there's an immediate solution to this unfortunately. :(

I think the only way we could "give LGBT less of a white face" is by just individually participating more in general anti-discrimination stuff, i.e. focusing on ALL anti-discrimination. That's what I'm all about. :P We, as LGBT people that aren't racist, can try and go out and show how we don't want any discrimination ever. Try to emphasise this on your own terms by doing your own good things. However you can't get white racist people to care about minorities . . . you just can't do it.
__________________

#077: Ponyta - The Fire Horse Pokémon
Fire ~ Field eggs
3'03" ~ 66.1lbs ~ 50/50

Its hooves are 10 times harder
than diamonds. It can trample
anything completely flat in moments.

Abilities: Run Away or Flash Fire or Flame Body
Moves: Growl, Flame Wheel, Stomp, Agility
Locations: Pokémon Mansion

Cry

Other names:

jp: ポニータ (Ponyta)
de: Ponita
fr: Ponyta
cn: 小火馬 (Xiǎohuǒmǎ)


  #1518    
Old November 22nd, 2011 (5:47 AM).
Ctrl.Alt.Geak's Avatar
Ctrl.Alt.Geak Ctrl.Alt.Geak is offline
Swords Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Nature: Lonely
Posts: 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarf View Post
When you say you can't stand the opposite sex physically do you mean that 1) they are the opposite sex of the sex you were given at birth and 2) that you are not attracted to that sex or that you can't stand the thought of being that sex? I'm just a little unsure which you mean, but I can say that it's perfectly normal for someone who is trans to be attracted to one sex or the other, or both, or none at all, regardless of what their own gender is. If that is something which is making you doubt what you're feeling, well, there's no need.

Body hatred is something a lot of trans people feel, but it's also something that non-trans people feel, too, of course. (And of course there are trans people who don't feel this, and so on.) I guess what I'm trying to say is that instead of trying to pinpoint a term I'd encourage you just to do whatever you feel suits you best and not worry about the terminology. If you prefer to be thought of and addressed as one particular sex then you should let people know that. If you just want to dress a certain way without wanting other parts of your identity to be different then you should do that. I know it can be nice to say "I'm _____" and having some camaraderie with other people who are the same, but I would hope you'd be happier being true to yourself and carving out an identity for yourself. If it turns out that you're trans then good for you. If it turns out that you're asexual and genderfluid then good for you, too. As long as you're happy with yourself that's what matters.
When I say I cannot stand the opposite sex physically, I mean 1) I was born female and I cannot stand the sight of the male body whatsoever and 2) because I cannot stand males physically as much as I do, I am concerned that I would abousolutely hate looking at myself in the mirror.
However, while I am attracted to females I really cannot stand being in a female body either and am constantly trying to appear to be as masculine as possible and prefer to be adressed by male pronouns.

Maybe I should have just said that to begin with.

I really do appreciate your and Ineffable's input though
__________________

  #1519    
Old November 22nd, 2011 (7:33 AM).
magma_wolf's Avatar
magma_wolf magma_wolf is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Roanoke Rapids
Age: 22
Gender: Male
Nature: Brave
Posts: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarf View Post
Well, before figuring out how, do you think it would be safe to tell your parents? That's the most important thing to ask before you decide if you should. I'm probably sounding overly cautious, but you never know.

If you're going to tell them then you could do it in person or by some other means if you don't feel you can tell them directly (like by calling them or something). I would think it would be better to tell them in person though unless you really don't think you could. You can also think about telling one of them before the other, or another family member first. If you have anyone else you might think would be more sympathetic (and could maybe stand by you when you tell your parents) that could be a big help. You'd have someone to support you and you'd already have gone through the coming out process with someone in your family/someone you're close to.

But yeah, it's not something that we can really advice on without knowing your situation. We wouldn't want to give you bad advice on accident.
well my mom probaly has figured it out so im not worried about her. but my dad hates gay men but loves lesbians so i dont know what i should do
  #1520    
Old November 22nd, 2011 (8:29 AM).
Esper's Avatar
Esper Esper is offline
cosmic explorer
Silver Tier
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: California
Posts: 9,520
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ctrl.Alt.Geak View Post
When I say I cannot stand the opposite sex physically, I mean 1) I was born female and I cannot stand the sight of the male body whatsoever and 2) because I cannot stand males physically as much as I do, I am concerned that I would abousolutely hate looking at myself in the mirror.
However, while I am attracted to females I really cannot stand being in a female body either and am constantly trying to appear to be as masculine as possible and prefer to be adressed by male pronouns.

Maybe I should have just said that to begin with.

I really do appreciate your and Ineffable's input though :)
I can understand you not wanting to go into detail though, especially with strangers, so it's okay you didn't say that to begin with. Your situation is one that I don't think there is a single term to describe (at least not one I know of) so like I said before, just do what makes you happiest. It sounds like you know what you want and that's good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by magma_wolf View Post
well my mom probaly has figured it out so im not worried about her. but my dad hates gay men but loves lesbians so i dont know what i should do
Well, again, we don't want to give you the wrong advice, but if you think your mom would be supportive you could have her be with you when/if you tell your dad. If you're close with your dad then I would think he'd be able to get over himself once he realized you're family. I know enough people who worried about telling their dads only to have very anti-climactic coming out stories. But anyway, if/when you decide to tell him you could always plan to have a travel bag of clothes and things ready and a friend who'll let you stay over for a night or two. Just in case.
__________________
  #1521    
Old November 22nd, 2011 (9:26 AM).
Ineffable~'s Avatar
Ineffable~ Ineffable~ is offline
DAT SNARKITUDE
Crystal Tier
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Any ol' place really
Age: 22
Gender: Female
Nature: Naive
Posts: 2,742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ctrl.Alt.Geak View Post
When I say I cannot stand the opposite sex physically, I mean 1) I was born female and I cannot stand the sight of the male body whatsoever and 2) because I cannot stand males physically as much as I do, I am concerned that I would abousolutely hate looking at myself in the mirror.
However, while I am attracted to females I really cannot stand being in a female body either and am constantly trying to appear to be as masculine as possible and prefer to be adressed by male pronouns.

Maybe I should have just said that to begin with.

I really do appreciate your and Ineffable's input though :)
Derp, I thought you were born male. @__@;
I can't give much helpful advice, just do whatever you can you know?

Quote:
Originally Posted by magma_wolf View Post
well my mom probaly has figured it out so im not worried about her. but my dad hates gay men but loves lesbians so i dont know what i should do
Do you think your mother would be accepting about it? If you think she would be supportive then, like Scarf said, you can always use her as a sort of mediator or perhaps even have her tell your father. Also if you have siblings or friends that you think would be supportive, it might make it easier to come out to them first. Make sure you have at least a few people "on your side" before making any rash moves.
__________________

#077: Ponyta - The Fire Horse Pokémon
Fire ~ Field eggs
3'03" ~ 66.1lbs ~ 50/50

Its hooves are 10 times harder
than diamonds. It can trample
anything completely flat in moments.

Abilities: Run Away or Flash Fire or Flame Body
Moves: Growl, Flame Wheel, Stomp, Agility
Locations: Pokémon Mansion

Cry

Other names:

jp: ポニータ (Ponyta)
de: Ponita
fr: Ponyta
cn: 小火馬 (Xiǎohuǒmǎ)


  #1522    
Old November 23rd, 2011 (3:12 AM).
Shining Raichu's Avatar
Shining Raichu Shining Raichu is offline
Emile Hersch turned 30 today. Who the hell is Emile Hersch?
Platinum Tier
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Australia
Age: 25
Gender: Male
Nature: Adamant
Posts: 9,055
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarf View Post
But before I totally derail this thread I do want to point out that the gay rights movement as a whole has a very white face and there are some varying levels of, if not racism, then racial ... ignorance? ... within it. Like a gay friend of mine has told me that there a lot of gay men who have a "no fats, no Asians" policy when it comes to dating and are very public about this. I personally don't like to see other issues/groups getting sidelined for one group's cause.
I don't think this is particularly a case of racism. While being so open about it and putting it in the form of some official policy is incredibly tasteless, I think this is just a matter of attraction. The blunt truth is that a lot of people are not attracted to overweight people and Asian people.

The issue I have with that is that by being outspoken about that, it creates a culture of disrespect toward both and a sense that you are above them in some way. That would be the racist aspect, but the core attraction concept isn't.
__________________

"So this is why God bombed us."

Moderator of General Chat

  #1523    
Old November 23rd, 2011 (11:11 AM). Edited November 23rd, 2011 by Alternative.
-ty-'s Avatar
-ty- -ty- is offline
Don't Ask, Just Tell
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: USA
Gender: Male
Nature: Naughty
Posts: 797
I think that some gay people, including myself to an extent, strive to almost dispose of any "pejorative" qualities we have; essentially, perfectionism, in order to compensate for how others perceive our sexuality. I don't pretend to act straight, but I would say that I try to be very ambitious, stay in shape, and plan to get married and have children. Basically, possess the qualities that most men who are straight envy.

Sometimes I feel like i have to separate myself from the "******", "slackers", "druggies" and "chubs" in my dating life, and aside from the "chubs" category, I would not be friends with those that I would place into those categories. Although the labels seem harsh, I would never treat anyone in these categories poorly as a person, but I don't identify with them, and I think it is fair for me to exclude them from my love life. As far as race goes...I have a tendency to be more attracted to Caucasian men and mixed Caucasian men, but I think that there are attractive people from all ethnicities. I think white gay men feel like they have more in common with other white gay men, and they may also think that dating a white man is less pejorative than dating a person of color, going back to the whole compensation for being homosexual; I don't think it is horrible for those gay men to exclude other races from their dating life, but I think that it is a limiting prerequisite that will downsize their selection pool of gay men to date, in a pool that is already sparse. But hey, I may be a bit of a hypocrite because I won't date overweight men, thus, cutting my own selection pool.
__________________

Don't be a rotten apple!
Check-out my Forbitten to see the latest developments in the Kenbi Region
!

  #1524    
Old November 23rd, 2011 (1:54 PM). Edited November 24th, 2011 by Alice.
Alice's Avatar
Alice Alice is offline
(>^.(>0.0)>
Crystal Tier
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Oregon
Age: 24
Gender: Female
Nature: Careful
Posts: 3,081
Send a message via Skype™ to Alice
Quote:
Originally Posted by -ty- View Post
Sometimes I feel like i have to separate myself from the "******", "slackers", "druggies" and "chubs" in my dating life, and aside from the "chubs" category, I would not be friends with those that I would place into those categories.
I think that's just called having standards. lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by QuilavaKing View Post
I don't recall anyone ever mentioning my sexuality in any way actually. Some of my friends knew that I liked a girl named Allison, and the rest were all nerds and didn't have girlfriends either, so I don't think anyone had any reason to question it. lol
Sort of off topic, but I just remembered, completely out of nowhere, that I used to tell people "I'm a Christian, I can't be Gay." so people must have asked me. I don't remember ever actually being asked though lol.
  #1525    
Old November 23rd, 2011 (10:08 PM).
U.Flame's Avatar
U.Flame U.Flame is offline
Brony Hacker
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sapphire City in future Hoenn
Age: 21
Gender: Male
Nature: Jolly
Posts: 1,240
Quote:
Originally Posted by -ty- View Post
I think that some gay people, including myself to an extent, strive to almost dispose of any "pejorative" qualities we have; essentially, perfectionism, in order to compensate for how others perceive our sexuality. I don't pretend to act straight, but I would say that I try to be very ambitious, stay in shape, and plan to get married and have children. Basically, possess the qualities that most men who are straight envy.

Sometimes I feel like i have to separate myself from the "******", "slackers", "druggies" and "chubs" in my dating life, and aside from the "chubs" category, I would not be friends with those that I would place into those categories. Although the labels seem harsh, I would never treat anyone in these categories poorly as a person, but I don't identify with them, and I think it is fair for me to exclude them from my love life. As far as race goes...I have a tendency to be more attracted to Caucasian men and mixed Caucasian men, but I think that there are attractive people from all ethnicities. I think white gay men feel like they have more in common with other white gay men, and they may also think that dating a white man is less pejorative than dating a person of color, going back to the whole compensation for being homosexual; I don't think it is horrible for those gay men to exclude other races from their dating life, but I think that it is a limiting prerequisite that will downsize their selection pool of gay men to date, in a pool that is already sparse. But hey, I may be a bit of a hypocrite because I won't date overweight men, thus, cutting my own selection pool.
I also treat people equally but I too can't help not being attracted to overweight people. (even though I'm a little overweight myself T_T) But I find any race attractive unlike people I know. A lot of people tell me they can't see themselves dating anyone black. I can, I've seen many black girls in my school that I would like to date. As well as whites, asians, pretty much anyone. I'd think I wouldn't have much trouble finding dates because I'm straight (no offense) but a surprising amount of people think I'm gay because I support gay rights.
__________________
Hacks I'm working on:
Pokemon Sapphire Hoenn's Rebirth - My own hack, making progress whenever possible.
3rd Gen Multiplayer Project - Research and development, occasionally testing, sometimes with support.
Pokemon Cursed/Creepy White - Group project, on hiatus for now with plans to return eventually.
Animal Crossing Wild World playing as an animal - experimental, messing with models and textures

Hacks I've worked on in the past:
Pokemon Ruby Destiny Broken Timeline (pre-reboot) - Assisted with maps
Pokemon HeartGold Prince Boo Edition - Experimental project with three small changes. Made at the request of YouTube LPer PrinceBoo21.

Been super busy with work, life, and laptop problems. Hopefully I can get back into it soon, I fear I'm already rusty. Meanwhile I'm considering writing some of my hacks as a series of fanfics.

Times I've been ninja'd: 18
Times I've ninja'd people: 3
 
Quick Reply

Sponsored Links
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 1:17 AM.