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  #2176    
Old February 5th, 2012 (12:01 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Kura:
Dude, if you really know me then you'd I wasn't trying to be rude at all. It's just like.. really? Is there nothing else you want to talk about other than to point out what some close-minded person said? Come on, guys, I know you're better than that. Haters shouldn't be that pressing- at least that's what I think.
That's why I told you that you were being rude. Often people tell you and you say it wasn't intentional, but you never seem to make an attempt to not sound rude. Maybe work on that some?

Quote:
You're taking everything I said and blowing it out of proportion; no, police officers shouldn't avoid doing their jobs, and no, people should get off the hook for causing harm to others.. but if we're just gonna draw attention to people who want to be stuck in oldworld views then.. what's the point? How's that furthering us?

I mean come on, I thought we were better than that. To go back and point at everyone who does something anti-gay and say "Oh my god they are terrible people" and basically call attention to it (there's not really any other type of discussion to it because everyone in here is already pro-homo.) I really don't see that as benefitting to trying to get more supporters. If anything it segregates people even more.
It's allowing people here to know about issues that they then may get involved with, which will then be resolved and one less bigot will be in power or one less group will be discriminating or a few people will change their minds about their homophobic ways. That furthers the cause and brings us closer to an accepting world. No, not everyone acts on every news story. But if just one person reads a story and thinks "I used to live there, I wonder if my friends there know about it" or "this is really terrible and I can personally relate, what can I do about this?", then spreading the story here was a great thing to do.

I took your words at what they mean. You implied that it was better to ignore people that do wrong to the LGBT community than give them attention. I explained to you why that's completely wrong. It's not out of proportion at all, unless you meant more than you said but chose not to say it. It's the right thing to do to pressure places like Cleveland to fire bigoted police officers and hire tolerant, just ones. It's not right to ignore them and hope someone else takes care of it. It's just not. Easier, yes.

You ignored my actual argument to instead tell me how wrong I was for disagreeing with you. How does my argument not hold up? How is it alright to ignore the negative side of LGBT issues when they're so important?

Quote:
So if you don't want to ignore it, then fine.. go ahead and do that. All the power to you, you know? But I choose not to waste my thoughts on the people who want to hurt other people, and I choose to spend my time helping in ways that I can. I don't think spreading news about closeminded people is actually helping much.. those people are going to keep being stupid. :/
But they may no longer be in power or the public opinion may turn on them so they have no choice but to act against their bigoted ways. I hate to use such an extreme example, but if everyone just ignored the Nazis where would we be today? Would they just go away because we chose not to talk about them and 'waste our thoughts' since they won't change? What about racial segregation? Where would we be if we just allowed people to discriminate because we didn't want to waste time actually being supportive towards news that may not directly affect us?

Quote:
I would appreciate it if you didn't call me out here for being rude, though. I mean, how about giving me a break for once and not assuming I meant something malicious? VM me about it if you think that's the case, but I think you're obviously getting the wrong impression of me.. and if Andy thinks I'm being rude, then let him know I encourage him to PM me too. I know I've PMed him for things and we've ironed things out before. I don't think he should be discouraged from doing it again. I knew Andy was here from the beginning.. he freaking started this thread! He asked me to start a new topic because he couldn't think of a pressing one atm.. so I did. Does that actually call for being rude? I don't get it.
I've 'given you a break' plenty of times before when you said "I didn't mean that as rude!" and I just accepted it, but that was under the assumption that you would actually work on your attitude so you didn't come off so terribly everywhere, lol.
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  #2177    
Old February 5th, 2012 (12:21 PM).
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Ok then let's just agree to disagree. I still don't think it's right to call so much negative attention to it.. sorry; I just can't see how that's good. Yes make people aware of it spread news when you see that.. but don't keep harping and bashing and just.. ugh.. I just don't like to see that either. I see it as fighting fire with fire.. :C let's fight fire with love. I just find more pleasure in hearing success stories than bad news, and I just think that's a better way to spread awareness.

Quote originally posted by Toujours:

That's why I told you that you were being rude. Often people tell you and you say it wasn't intentional, but you never seem to make an attempt to not sound rude. Maybe work on that some?
I've 'given you a break' plenty of times before when you said "I didn't mean that as rude!" and I just accepted it, but that was under the assumption that you would actually work on your attitude so you didn't come off so terribly everywhere, lol.
And I see this as being really rude towards me. Like I said earlier.. you could've PMed or VMed me about it. :/ It's being a bit mean IMO. You probably didn't mean it to be rude either.. but I kind of find it to be. You're basically telling me I need an attitude adjustment. Well ouch! Really not cool.
Anyways, if Shining Raichu had an issue, it would've been better if he brought it up with me anyways.. so he could've explained if and how I might've offended him so I'd be able to give him a sincere apology. Not saying that what you're saying is invalid, but it would be more genuine and personal if you did it through PM since.. if that were actually the case of me being rude, I WOULD actually be able to work on it because we'd discuss it one on one rather than you calling me out and accusing me on here unrelated, when I feel you just really read a bit too much into it. ;o;
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Old February 5th, 2012 (12:22 PM).
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I agree with the person who said we need to give these guys attention. Its like saying "Don't give a bill like SOPA attention, and it will just go away". No, thats not how things work if you want progress. You need a loud noise, a strong one. One that is able to crush through bigots. While their opinions and views are horrid, they need to be exploited. People who are in some form of power need to know why its a big deal for the gay community.
I imagine that if the Civil Rights movement in the 60s (or was it the 70s) never happened, or the female rights activist movement never happened there would still be a lot stronger discrimination towards them. There still is, but now whenever someone goes up against an africian american or a women, society is there to be enraged. This is starting to happen with the LGBTS movement, and it is a positive thing.

Now, quit calling each other rude/acting rude! It doesn't set a good example if the people who are fighting for love are fighting with one another <3
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  #2179    
Old February 5th, 2012 (12:32 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Kura:
I just find more pleasure in hearing success stories than bad news, and I just think that's a better way to spread awareness.
I guess I just think it's much more important to try to lessen the pain of LGBT people in the world at the cost of a little sadness on our end as opposed to feeling comforted and warm and fuzzy while trying our damnedest to ignore the intense pain and suffering others are going through. It feels better if you pretend no one is suffering, yes. But it doesn't help the people who are suffering at all.

And in general, yes positivity is a great way to spread general awareness. But for specific instances, negativity is inevitable and necessary, because there is no positive side unless the community deals with the issue by contacting people there, raising a fuss, etc.
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  #2180    
Old February 5th, 2012 (12:34 PM).
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Quote originally posted by TwiDragon:
I agree with the person who said we need to give these guys attention. Its like saying "Don't give a bill like SOPA attention, and it will just go away". No, thats not how things work if you want progress. You need a loud noise, a strong one. One that is able to crush through bigots. While their opinions and views are horrid, they need to be exploited. People who are in some form of power need to know why its a big deal for the gay community.
I imagine that if the Civil Rights movement in the 60s (or was it the 70s) never happened, or the female rights activist movement never happened there would still be a lot stronger discrimination towards them. There still is, but now whenever someone goes up against an africian american or a women, society is there to be enraged. This is starting to happen with the LGBTS movement, and it is a positive thing.

Now, quit calling each other rude/acting rude! It doesn't set a good example if the people who are fighting for love are fighting with one another <3
My bad, you're right. :c Sorry Touj! Didn't mean to draw this out.

I agree with spreading the news.. but I guess I was misunderstood in that.. I just hate the whole "I hate you because you hate us" thing. Or "You're disgusting you don't support it." Just.. blegh.. the whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It just feels like.. people SHOULD stand up for themselves. Gay people should say "Who the heck cares if I was born this way or if it is my choice, it's in the bible to love your neighbour!!" instead of spewing hatred back to people who don't support it. Just.. stop calling attention to the hate. Spread the news, yes. Stop spreading the hate. Stop pinpointing all the bad things everyone says.. let's start celebrating more accomplishments! I feel like everyone is lifting up all the bad things in the spotlight and forgetting about the little things. This is a support club.. not a "let's see who can find the most haters" club. I dunno.. that's just how I feel. I can be wrong but hey.. I'm just sharing my thoughts here- this is what I feel and I wanted to see if anyone shared those sentiments.
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  #2181    
Old February 5th, 2012 (12:53 PM).
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^Well if you want progress your going to need to see the bad in order to get to the good. I feel that negative news is going to raise more awareness than positive news. For the people that watch news and look at certain things, they can be a bit more educated on the matter. However, there are some people out there like Glen Beck or Rick Santorum who won't educate themselves, and are too egotistical to change their views because they feel that they would be "wrong"

I mean with every good story, or gate we pass in the gay community always will come with the bad. Example : More parents are becoming more accepting of transgendered children, as a result schools and organizations won't allow them to be the way they want too as they find it "taboo"

Also, spreading awareness in places like California or Miami isn't going to do much good as they are really open about the community. However, places like Mississippi and Idaho are places where the word needs to be spread. Places that tend to be a lot more conservative, tend to have the worst cases of discrimination. Which is why its a grand thing for any kind of good thing to happen their with all the bad news there. Like for example, the Constance McMillin Case in Missispii (I may of spelled the name wrong) . She was able to take a bad situation that was against her, and turned it into something that probley has helped that area in the LGBTS community. Now, I dont know that for a fact as I don't live there. The point is, is that if you have bad news, there is always good that can come out of it. :3

Stay optimistic <3
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Old February 5th, 2012 (01:06 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Pudz:
So... um... on another topic; I think I'm doing my video for the itgetsbetter project, this week. Likeliness is that it'll never be seen, but if one person sees it and it make them think, I guess its worthwhile.
Every single time I watch a video from the organization, I start tearing up so badly. I look like a big bawling baby. My favorite was the video from Pixar. Could.not.stop.crying.

So good luck with yours! I hope you enjoy making it, and i hope we can see it here in the club. c:
(And it's always worthwhile)
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  #2183    
Old February 5th, 2012 (01:31 PM).
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Quote originally posted by TwiDragon:
^Well if you want progress your going to need to see the bad in order to get to the good. I feel that negative news is going to raise more awareness than positive news. For the people that watch news and look at certain things, they can be a bit more educated on the matter. However, there are some people out there like Glen Beck or Rick Santorum who won't educate themselves, and are too egotistical to change their views because they feel that they would be "wrong"

I mean with every good story, or gate we pass in the gay community always will come with the bad. Example : More parents are becoming more accepting of transgendered children, as a result schools and organizations won't allow them to be the way they want too as they find it "taboo"

Also, spreading awareness in places like California or Miami isn't going to do much good as they are really open about the community. However, places like Mississippi and Idaho are places where the word needs to be spread. Places that tend to be a lot more conservative, tend to have the worst cases of discrimination. Which is why its a grand thing for any kind of good thing to happen their with all the bad news there. Like for example, the Constance McMillin Case in Missispii (I may of spelled the name wrong) . She was able to take a bad situation that was against her, and turned it into something that probley has helped that area in the LGBTS community. Now, I dont know that for a fact as I don't live there. The point is, is that if you have bad news, there is always good that can come out of it. :3

Stay optimistic <3
You know what? That's actually a really good way to think about it. I mean.. I still hate seeing haters, but I think I'll think about it in that way more often from now on.
I like when people rise up and combat the hate by doing something proactive. I think that's the way we can learn best.
Thanks for that!

Itgetsbetterproject= full of so much great!
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Old February 5th, 2012 (03:12 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Toujours:
If you ignore an issue, the issue gets larger. The people who are bigots remain bigots and will not be influenced by the greater fabric of LGBT acceptance. The people that are on the fence on LGBT rights (I've met some who I personally convinced) will only have the loud voices of homophobes to guide them in their decision. If you just shut up and put up and don't try to change anything, then nothing will change. I feel a club like this is a great way to bring awareness to issues that can then be spread by other means. I've taken articles from here and posted them to Facebook and to my school's LGBT club, spreading the amount of people that know about the injustice and that may do something about it.
This, essentially. While I get that the negative articles can at times seem repetitive in their similarity, it's not good to let them go unacknowledged either. Not mentioning them at all is the equivalent of saying "that's fine, carry on." Some of the bigots who are the reason for these articles do want attention; but LGBT issues are enough of a hot-button topic that they're going to get the attention either way - I think it's better to dictate the kind of attention they're given rather than to bury our heads in the sand.

Quote originally posted by Kura:
What do you realistically think the worldview on homosexuality might be like in 20 years time and why? What would you do now to help change the worldview so that it's one that you would like to see in the future
I think it will be far better than it is now. Even if we halved our efforts (which we should never do!), it would be better than it is now simply by virtue of having 20 years worth of old people dying off. There will still always be bigots, of course, but the younger generation tend to be far more "pro-homo" due to how and when we've grown up. While I don't accept upbringing as a valid reason for being anti-LGBT, I do accept that the older generation are never going to change and it's just a matter of playing the waiting game as far as they're concerned lol.

Quote originally posted by Pudz:
So... um... on another topic; I think I'm doing my video for the itgetsbetter project, this week. Likeliness is that it'll never be seen, but if one person sees it and it make them think, I guess its worthwhile.
Post it here when it's done, Pudz! If nothing else, we'll see it. But I'm sure others will too
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  #2185    
Old February 5th, 2012 (03:50 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Pudz:
many asexuals are the way they are due to situational circumstances; perhaps even those beyond their control.
And there are many that are not, and they're now being treated as if they're only asexual due to something being wrong with them. Which was all that I was pointing out. One of the most common responses to people coming out as asexual is "There's something wrong with you. Go get medical help" when for many people, there's nothing wrong with them.

To swing this onto one of the current topics, the asexual community is using the House episode to try and educate more people so that asexual people aren't defaulted to having some medical cause behind their orientation.
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Old February 6th, 2012 (09:47 AM).
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So I've been doing a little reading about asexuality (because I could do with a little more education) and it depending on who you talk to it seems to be somewhat outside the LGBT umbrella. It makes me wonder if it's a choice by asexual people to remain separate for whatever reasons or something that the LBGT crowd does that makes us less than welcoming to asexual people. To me it seems right that they should be a part of the group in the same way that trans people are (ideally anyway) even though they aren't necessarily a non-heterosexual sexual orientation. That got me thinking about how in the past I think I wasn't very supportive of the idea. I can remember one time a friend said to me that he just wasn't interested in sex anymore on any level and I took that as a bad thing. Now I think I could have been more understanding and supportive. :/

Quote originally posted by Pudz:
So... um... on another topic; I think I'm doing my video for the itgetsbetter project, this week. Likeliness is that it'll never be seen, but if one person sees it and it make them think, I guess its worthwhile.
That's really commendable. It almost makes me want to make one myself. (I really would if I weren't so shy.) So that right there was something positive you've done with it and you haven't even made it yet.
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  #2187    
Old February 6th, 2012 (12:08 PM).
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I hope this doesn't sound rude, but I don't really understand the difference between someone choosing to remain celibate because they're not attracted to people.. and people who label themselves as asexual. Could someone explain this to me? Or is it the same thing with just a word attached to it?
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Old February 6th, 2012 (03:16 PM).
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I was under the impression that asexualism was defined by the lack of attraction to other people. I'm not sure what question it is you're asking lol.
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Old February 6th, 2012 (03:20 PM).
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I thought asexuality is to be unattracted by sex only. Then there is something that is for sex and relationships with other people.
I could be wrong though, but asexuality is the term that would technically define both of these types of people. I myself have one friend who is asexual, yet he likes people with personality and what not and is even in a relationship (I honestly don't know how that works tbh)
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Old February 6th, 2012 (03:42 PM).
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Isn't that why there's -sexual and -romantic? Like someone can be asexual and heteroromantic, so they're in a relationship without sex but they're still romantically attracted to their partner?
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Old February 6th, 2012 (07:31 PM).
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This ___sexual/____romantic thing makes me wonder... how would anti-gay people feel about two heterosexual/homo-romantic men getting married? That topic interests me, as a bisexual/hetero-romantic man.
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Old February 6th, 2012 (08:46 PM).
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I really don't think it matters to them how you feel about it. All that matters to them is that you're the opposite sex.
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Old February 7th, 2012 (08:19 AM).
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Quote originally posted by QuilavaKing:
I really don't think it matters to them how you feel about it. All that matters to them is that you're the opposite sex.
Agreed. If someone has a problem with gay people in general they probably have a very solid, simple view of sexuality as a whole that doesn't allow for anything more complex than "straight" and "other."

So, in other news, the infamous Prop 8 is in the news again as the 9th circuit court of appeals is due to make a ruling in a couple hours. It'll probably strike it down, but it'll probably get appealed no matter what the decision is. I hold out the tiniest sliver of hope that the court will find it so unbelievably wrong that they'll reinstate same sex marriages again, but yeah, looks like it's still years away from a conclusion.
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Old February 7th, 2012 (08:23 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Kura:
I hope this doesn't sound rude, but I don't really understand the difference between someone choosing to remain celibate because they're not attracted to people.. and people who label themselves as asexual. Could someone explain this to me? Or is it the same thing with just a word attached to it?
Asexual means having no sexual attraction. Celibate means making a conscious decision not to have sex.

Technically, asexual aromantic is the full way of saying someone that has a natural lack of both sexual and romantic attraction, but colloquially I feel like I see people saying "asexual" and let the "aromantic" be implied. It's perfectly fine to me, since it's natural for people to associate -sexual and -romantic together being that they're the same or similar for most people.

@Charlie: I really don't think it matters who the people are into sexually. xD If two people of the same-sex are together, that apparently = bad.
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Old February 7th, 2012 (10:20 AM).
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Okay here's some good news for you all. :)

Appeals Court Rules Prop 8 Unconstitutional

Of course the backers of Prop 8 are going to appeal it even farther up, but yet another step in the right direction.
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Old February 7th, 2012 (11:10 AM).
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The Supreme Court is the top court, and once it's decided there precedent is set and that's it. I'm not 100% on the appeals system but there's either 1 more court to go before it goes to the Supreme Court or the Supreme Court is just the next court. The news article seemed to imply that they could appeal once again to the 9th District Federal Appeals court, but if not it would go up to the Supreme Court.

But the Supreme Court hears less than 1% of the court cases filed with it so it's possible that this court has the final say on it. However I get the feeling this is the kind of case the Supreme Court would actually take haha.
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Old February 7th, 2012 (11:11 AM).
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Oh, well. Maybe a miracle will happen and they'll mess up their papers on filing for an appeal and we'll get marriage back without having to go to the Supreme Court. I really don't like the idea of them deciding so in the mean time I'm gonna push for the ballot initiative for this year's election that would strike out Prop 8. [here it is]

Edit: I believe that they can appeal this decision to the Supreme Court directly or they can try the whole of the 9th Circuit.
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Old February 7th, 2012 (11:16 AM).
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Other interesting points that I just saw while researching this a little more:

They can actually go straight to the Supreme Court if they'd like, but they can also go to a a larger panel of judges in the same appeals circuit, since this decision was heard by only 3 judges. This article has some more detailed and interesting bits in it, such as why the Supreme Court is unlikely to hear the case and what precedent was used in making the decision. It would be nice if they went straight to the Supreme Court and then were denied, as that would mean the end of the line for them and precedent would be set.
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Old February 7th, 2012 (04:01 PM).
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Emile Hersch turned 30 today. Who the hell is Emile Hersch?
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Oh my God, this is amazing news! That makes me so happy!

From what I hear (and granted, my knowledge comes from TV shows so it may not be all that reliable!) judges prefer not to reverse decisions made by other judges, so the more times it gets stricken down, the less likely it is that it will ever be reversed. That's my take on it anyway, I could be totally off-base. But if I am, blame The Good Wife.
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Old February 7th, 2012 (05:06 PM).
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The fun shawl be doubled!
 
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Amazing news ^-^
I shared over to serebii's LGBST club :>

I recently opened to my mom about my crossdressing/transgender feelings. She was fine with them! I'll tell my dad some other time. He is open, but its hard to tell him stuff like this. I'm glad my parents are accepting people! <3
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