[Developing] Pokémon: Phoenix Rising

[DeLaMuerte]

Originally Posted by Pichuichu

Yeah, I don't quite like the sound of that. or at least make it for the pc and then make a port for the ds or something like that.

Eh, it seems that it's easier to make a port from DS to PC. Although, in truth, I have no idea how this stuff works, soooo...,

Anyhow, I think that the game looks great in graphics, but does DS have the ability to handle it is the question at hand, versus whether its a good thing or a bad thing. Because, truthfully, if he says he's making for the DS, I don't think he'll change his mind.

The game itself looks pretty good! I hope it releases soon though...

[Musketeer]

Originally Posted by DeLaMuerte

Eh, it seems that it's easier to make a port from DS to PC. Although, in truth, I have no idea how this stuff works, soooo...,

Anyhow, I think that the game looks great in graphics, but does DS have the ability to handle it is the question at hand, versus whether its a good thing or a bad thing. Because, truthfully, if he says he's making for the DS, I don't think he'll change his mind.

The game itself looks pretty good! I hope it releases soon though...

Since this is not a ROM hack(which means it cannot be played on a DS/PSP)...

The possibility of a port is next to impossible. Due to the fact that this is not a hack, and is made using RPG Maker XP, it only works on a computer. RMXP builds games that only a computer could handle, which is why it doesn't have the horrid limitations that ROMs have. If this were a ROM hack, it'd be 100% possible.

You cannot "port" an RMXP game. No one has ever built an interpreter for the DS or the PSP that can read and compile RGSS. Even if someone had, the hardware upon which you are trying to load it on does not have the power to run it.

Simply, if you want a DS version of a fangame, look for ROM hacks. If you want something that has WAY less limitations, but cannot run on a DS or PSP, look for RMXP or RMVX games.

[Triple R]

^ That's why they're also rewriting it in C++, otherwise a port really would be impossible. If that fails, they can still keep the computer RMXP without porting.

[DeLaMuerte]

Originally Posted by Musketeer

Since this is not a ROM hack(which means it cannot be played on a DS/PSP)...

The possibility of a port is next to impossible. Due to the fact that this is not a hack, and is made using RPG Maker XP, it only works on a computer. RMXP builds games that only a computer could handle, which is why it doesn't have the horrid limitations that ROMs have. If this were a ROM hack, it'd be 100% possible.

You cannot "port" an RMXP game. No one has ever built an interpreter for the DS or the PSP that can read and compile RGSS. Even if someone had, the hardware upon which you are trying to load it on does not have the power to run it.

Simply, if you want a DS version of a fangame, look for ROM hacks. If you want something that has WAY less limitations, but cannot run on a DS or PSP, look for RMXP or RMVX games.

Ask the creator about it then. But truthfully, I don't know that much about this kind of stuff (as I said in the original post), so this kind of furthers my knowledge about this kind of stuff, so thanks. But like Triple R said, it is being written in C++...

[Abnegation]

Originally Posted by Musketeer

Since this is not a ROM hack(which means it cannot be played on a DS/PSP)...

The possibility of a port is next to impossible. Due to the fact that this is not a hack, and is made using RPG Maker XP, it only works on a computer. RMXP builds games that only a computer could handle, which is why it doesn't have the horrid limitations that ROMs have. If this were a ROM hack, it'd be 100% possible.

You cannot "port" an RMXP game. No one has ever built an interpreter for the DS or the PSP that can read and compile RGSS. Even if someone had, the hardware upon which you are trying to load it on does not have the power to run it.

Simply, if you want a DS version of a fangame, look for ROM hacks. If you want something that has WAY less limitations, but cannot run on a DS or PSP, look for RMXP or RMVX games.

Your facts are a wee bit mis-guided there pal. Just because something hasn't been done, doesn't mean it will never be. While I know how difficult it is, it doesn't mean it's not being done. As of now, my programmer is working on such a compiler in which can convert the code. Or at least a bulk of the events and such.

Also to mention, the DS limitations aren't quite as large as you think. If a DS can run a 3D engine in a 512MB game, of course it could run PR once it's all being pushed into C++. However, also to note that the engine isn't a conversion of Pokemon Essentials, it's an entirely new engine. Which will actually be made public, I believe, or at least it will be available. Anyway, as a great somebody once said "where there's a will, there's a way". And that's what we at the PR team work by.

[evefarrel]

I so want to play this game but I can't find the download link on the first post...

Can anyone tell me if there is one yet?

[Nintendork15]

Originally Posted by evefarrel

I so want to play this game but I can't find the download link on the first post...

Can anyone tell me if there is one yet?

If you don't see it, there isn't one.

[Luka S.J.]

I think it is a bad idea what you're doing. Right now, with this idea of making PR into a DS version you're being very unproductive. For one, you are not contributing with the coding of making the DS engine, nor have a finished-enough DS engine to start any serious work when it comes to mapping, eventing, trainers and so on. So just waiting for someone to make a "ready for use Starter-Kit" is pretty pointless. On the other hand, if you were to continue with serious work on the RMXP version; since the RMXP games can't be ported to the DS, that would be pretty pointless too, as you'd have to redo all that work for the DS.

Looking at the other technical sides of making the game on the DS, you'd need to create the 3D models of the tiles you have. You'd have to rely on your programmer to further do codes and menus for you (to create originality within the game, and port your ideas such as the PokeStrap). All of this basically throws you back into the drawing board when it comes to your game which, again, I find pointless.

It wouldn't be an issue here, if you were just starting up a new game - then you could afford to experiment and look/wait for a starter kit on different platforms. I honestly don't understand what prompted this sudden change, in moving away from RMXP - it isn't limited at all. If you are looking for the 3D effect, it can and has been done in RMXP. If you are looking for online capabilities, they can and have been done in RMXP. If you are looking for new input/control methods, they can and have been done in RMXP. So I don't know why you say that RMXP is limited (any more than the DS is).

I think that with things being the way they are now, it will take years for a Pokemon Starter Kit on the DS to match the quality, and functionality of Pokemon Essentials. Maruno has done a fantastic job in taking care of the kit, and added so many new features which the public longed for. You can make a very good Pokemon game in RMXP with Essentials. You can't make a very good Pokemon game (yet) on the DS if it is not a ROM hack. That is why I think, that you waiting for a DS engine is very unproductive. It would be better to stick with what you have and what you know, and further expand on that. Right now it feels as if your just yanking your followers from one side to the other, not showing any real progress.

[Rick1234]

Originally Posted by Luka S.J.

I think it is a bad idea what you're doing. Right now, with this idea of making PR into a DS version you're being very unproductive. For one, you are not contributing with the coding of making the DS engine, nor have a finished-enough DS engine to start any serious work when it comes to mapping, eventing, trainers and so on. So just waiting for someone to make a "ready for use Starter-Kit" is pretty pointless. On the other hand, if you were to continue with serious work on the RMXP version; since the RMXP games can't be ported to the DS, that would be pretty pointless too, as you'd have to redo all that work for the DS.

Looking at the other technical sides of making the game on the DS, you'd need to create the 3D models of the tiles you have. You'd have to rely on your programmer to further do codes and menus for you (to create originality within the game, and port your ideas such as the PokeStrap). All of this basically throws you back into the drawing board when it comes to your game which, again, I find pointless.

It wouldn't be an issue here, if you were just starting up a new game - then you could afford to experiment and look/wait for a starter kit on different platforms. I honestly don't understand what prompted this sudden change, in moving away from RMXP - it isn't limited at all. If you are looking for the 3D effect, it can and has been done in RMXP. If you are looking for online capabilities, they can and have been done in RMXP. If you are looking for new input/control methods, they can and have been done in RMXP. So I don't know why you say that RMXP is limited (any more than the DS is).

I think that with things being the way they are now, it will take years for a Pokemon Starter Kit on the DS to match the quality, and functionality of Pokemon Essentials. Maruno has done a fantastic job in taking care of the kit, and added so many new features which the public longed for. You can make a very good Pokemon game in RMXP with Essentials. You can't make a very good Pokemon game (yet) on the DS if it is not a ROM hack. That is why I think, that you waiting for a DS engine is very unproductive. It would be better to stick with what you have and what you know, and further expand on that. Right now it feels as if your just yanking your followers from one side to the other, not showing any real progress.

Nice post Luka. But, coding isn't what makes the game. It's how you play it, I look forward to pokemon games with new storylines or new pokemon. I don't even carea bout the maps. He has a simple design and he made the choice of what he wants to do. Even I wanted to make it go on a DS rom. But most people can't do that. At this moment it's more about the storyline.

[Luka S.J.]

Originally Posted by Rick1234

Nice post Luka. But, coding isn't what makes the game. It's how you play it, I look forward to pokemon games with new storylines or new pokemon. I don't even carea bout the maps. He has a simple design and he made the choice of what he wants to do. Even I wanted to make it go on a DS rom. But most people can't do that. At this moment it's more about the storyline.

Coding is a huge part of what makes a game. Coding is what decides how you play the game, as it is what makes the Game's mechanisms. Everybody seems to be forgetting that. Without the codes which created the Battle System, the codes for the Pokemon, their moves, stats, abilities you would not have a Pokemon game. I never stated that you have to go overboard with all kinds of crazy codes and systems to make a good game, and that codes are the only thing that are important in making a game; but the codes are an essential fundation, and are what make the game look and feel the way you want it. If all you look for is a storyline, go read a book. One cannot make a game without coding. The reason that you and other developers here can make games without having any knowledge of coding, is that you have tools such as RMXP and Essentials designed specifically for people like you, people with little coding knowledge or experience, which do that work for you. So it is very rude, to just glance over these details, and not even acknowledge their importance to you.

[Rick1234]

Originally Posted by Luka S.J.

Coding is a huge part of what makes a game. Coding is what decides how you play the game, as it is what makes the Game's mechanisms. Everybody seems to be forgetting that. Without the codes which created the Battle System, the codes for the Pokemon, their moves, stats, abilities you would not have a Pokemon game. I never stated that you have to go overboard with all kinds of crazy codes and systems to make a good game, and that codes are the only thing that are important in making a game; but the codes are an essential fundation, and are what make the game look and feel the way you want it. If all you look for is a storyline, go read a book. One cannot make a game without coding. The reason that you and other developers here can make games without having any knowledge of coding, is that you have tools such as RMXP and Essentials designed specifically for people like you, people with little coding knowledge or experience, which do that work for you. So it is very rude, to just glance over these details, and not even acknowledge their importance to you.

Codes only matter for binding the game into one piece to make it what it is. The real thing that matters is the storyline. Not all people care about the code. They don't just look forward to the graphics or into the code. Some people play it for the fun.

[Luka S.J.]

Originally Posted by Rick1234

Codes only matter for binding the game into one piece to make it what it is.

Only? Are you listening to yourself. That is like saying: "The base foundation of a skyscraper is only used to support the skyscraper, but what's really important is actually the carpeting we are going to use in the rooms."

I don't know how to say it any other way: Without a game's engine(s), there is no game.

Originally Posted by Chris

Storyline is put into the game via codes.

[carmaniac]

Originally Posted by Rick1234

Codes only matter for binding the game into one piece to make it what it is. The real thing that matters is the storyline. Not all people care about the code. They don't just look forward to the graphics or into the code. Some people play it for the fun.

No code = No maps = No events = No menus = No game. Just something to think about with what you just said there. Become a coder, and you'll then understand this perspective.

[yaywalter]

Originally Posted by Rick1234

Codes only matter for binding the game into one piece to make it what it is. The real thing that matters is the storyline. Not all people care about the code. They don't just look forward to the graphics or into the code. Some people play it for the fun.

Hahahahahaha, you're one funny guy.

Code is what makes games function. You cannot have a game without code. You can, however, have a game without a storyline. Or just a very basic storyline that's only given to you in the instruction manual rather than during the course of actual gameplay.

It doesn't matter if you, as a game player, don't care about the code. Players aren't expected to consciously care or think about the code, they're expected to care about the fun gameplay... which is defined by the code.

So if you play games for the fun, then you have the code to thank for making the games fun.




Anyway... since people continue to insist on discussing whether the DS version of Pheonix Rising is a good idea or not, despite Abnegation already asking for it to cease, I figure I'd throw my two cents out there.

The logic, as I understand it, for making the DS port is because Abnegation doesn't want Pheonix Rising to be stuck on the PC where it may not get a lot of downloads. But I don't think porting it to the DS will make the game any more popular... more people will download it for PC than people will try to figure out how to get it running on their DS. It's not like you'll be able to sell game carts with the game loaded onto it, like an official release. So I think the logic behind porting it to the DS is a little bit flawed. It may not be as cool or glamorous as a PC executable, but I think it'd be more popular in that format.

But that being said, it would be pretty awesome to see this running on the DS like an official game. So even though I think the logic behind the port doesn't add up, I'm not necessarily saying it's a bad idea. Go with whatever makes you happy. But also keep in mind that you're making this game to be played, and there's already lots of people eagerly awaiting its release... including me. Most of us understand that making a game doesn't happen over night, but you don't want to keep us waiting too long nonetheless. People could lose interest and forget.

[Atomic Reactor]

I don't really see the problem about discussing changing game engines? It's specifically about the game, so it's on topic. And a few good points keep getting brought into the mix. So it's not really fair to be asked to stop talking about it.

[Musketeer]

Originally Posted by Luka S.J.

Cleared text to save space...

That is somewhat what I was describing in my earlier post. I don't know why someone would want to navigate away from RMXP(when it's limitations are very minimal) to a C++ engine. It doesn't make any sense. Any way you look at it, the Nintendo DS has more limitation than a computer. Same perspective goes into the games themselves. A game made using RMXP is bound to be way more powerful in terms of capabilities than one made off of a ROM.

You can do a Google search all you want for a NDS RGSS compiler. All you will find are threads started by newbies that have been quickly shut down because the admins know it's not a piece of cake to build such a thing.

Originally Posted by Rick1234

Nice post Luka. But, coding isn't what makes the game. It's how you play it, I look forward to pokemon games with new storylines or new pokemon. I don't even carea bout the maps. He has a simple design and he made the choice of what he wants to do. Even I wanted to make it go on a DS rom. But most people can't do that. At this moment it's more about the storyline.

Uh... where did you get your info there pal?

carmaniac's post basically takes it away here....

Originally Posted by carmaniac

No code = No maps = No events = No menus = No game. Just something to think about with what you just said there. Become a coder, and you'll then understand this perspective.

Indeed, next time you start up RMXP, look at the script tool. Observe the countless lines of code that allow even your storyline to be possible. If you wanted a story, then shouldn't you be reading a book?

[hansiec]

Originally Posted by Musketeer

I don't know why someone would want to navigate away from RMXP(when it's limitations are very minimal) to a C++ engine. It doesn't make any sense.

C++ has less limitations than RMXP, also C++ is more powerful and can be compiled into an exe which you cannot be decompiled back into C++ (or so I've heard), not to mention it's faster, can support 3D without much effort, nearly all devices takes in C++.


With this said, a C++ engine will have even less limitations than RMXP, and can also be free in some cases unlike RMXP. There are a few downsides such as it's slightly more annoying to program with (unless you don't mind adding type definitions for each variable and putting a ; after each line of code).

[Triple R]

You guys are saying these things as though the Phoenix Rising team has made no headway in creating their game. I'm pretty sure they're ahead of the game here.

[Musketeer]

Originally Posted by hansiec

C++ has less limitations than RMXP, also C++ is more powerful and can be compiled into an exe which you cannot be decompiled back into C++ (or so I've heard), not to mention it's faster, can support 3D without much effort, nearly all devices takes in C++.


With this said, a C++ engine will have even less limitations than RMXP, and can also be free in some cases unlike RMXP. There are a few downsides such as it's slightly more annoying to program with (unless you don't mind adding type definitions for each variable and putting a ; after each line of code).

That's true, but take into consideration how much time it would take to create a new, fully-functional Pokémon engine out of C++. It's not something I'd enjoy doing. And in my eyes, I consider the programming annoyances of C++ a "limitation". If I weren't using RGSS to create games, I'd be developing through Java or Flash. Those support many great games. Think RuneScape, WoW, etc.

Originally Posted by Triple R

You guys are saying these things as though the Phoenix Rising team has made no headway in creating their game. I'm pretty sure they're ahead of the game here.

Not once did I or anyone else here say that the PR team has made no headway. Someone may have mentioned that transitioning from one engine to another would slow progress, but that's about it. Read a few pages back, then understand what we're actually talking about.

[hansiec]

Originally Posted by Musketeer

That's true, but take into consideration how much time it would take to create a new, fully-functional Pokémon engine out of C++. It's not something I'd enjoy doing.

Yes, I know but in general it is better.

Originally Posted by Musketeer

And in my eyes, I consider the programming annoyances of C++ a "limitation".

not a limitation but a downside.

Originally Posted by Musketeer

If I weren't using RGSS to create games, I'd be developing through Java or Flash. Those support many great games. Think RuneScape, WoW, etc.

I agree with java or flash as they are good ways to create games.

Also You mean: Think Runescape, Minecraft, WoW, ect. Runescape isn't all that popular anymore, Minecraft + lack of new implements killed most their population. (Yes I know 100k+ online is a lot but it used to be 1+ million users online)

[Musketeer]

Originally Posted by hansiec

Also You mean: Think Runescape, Minecraft, WoW, ect. Runescape isn't all that popular anymore, Minecraft + lack of new implements killed most their population. (Yes I know 100k+ online is a lot but it used to be 1+ million users online)

Heheh, that is definitely true. Minecraft and it's amazing utilization of Java... and it comes in a mere 700 KB package.

Anyway, before this goes off-topic, I am just gonna say I think it's kinda pointless to spend so much time developing a new Pokémon engine, when you already have what is needed. Yeah, it may be cool to play PR on a NDS, but PR could also reach a larger audience if it were developed on a computer, not for a DS. Not everyone has a homebrew capable NDS. And the PSP sure as heck can't play NDS ROMs for beans. It's emulating capabilities are just emerging. So, in general, if you're developing it for C++, what is the point if you could just develop using RMXP and allow anyone who has a computer to play it.

[DeLaMuerte]

Although, if he does make it on the DS, that encourages other developers to do the same. And plus, my computer is old and laggy- and what I'm using right now is an Acer netbook- so It may be better to have it on the DS to those who may not be able to support the file on their computer.

[Triple R]

Originally Posted by DeLaMuerte

Although, if he does make it on the DS, that encourages other developers to do the same. And plus, my computer is old and laggy- and what I'm using right now is an Acer netbook- so It may be better to have it on the DS to those who may not be able to support the file on their computer.

I'm thinking sort of along these lines.

Originally Posted by hansiec

Also You mean: Think Runescape, Minecraft, WoW, ect. Runescape isn't all that popular anymore, Minecraft + lack of new implements killed most their population. (Yes I know 100k+ online is a lot but it used to be 1+ million users online)

Lol, RuneScape's not dead. Not yet, anyway.

[Musketeer]

Originally Posted by DeLaMuerte

Although, if he does make it on the DS, that encourages other developers to do the same. And plus, my computer is old and laggy- and what I'm using right now is an Acer netbook- so It may be better to have it on the DS to those who may not be able to support the file on their computer.

Alright, if you only own a Netbook, then you really shouldn't be looking at RMXP games in the first place. Also, I understand that your other computer may be old and laggy, but in that case you should invest in upgrades or a new computer altogether. I got an RMXP game to run on Windows 98. And the overall population of Netbook users may be large, but WAY larger with people who own actual PCs.

Again, not everyone owns a homebrew capable NDS, or wants to, which could play PR. Same goes for Netbooks. Not everyone owns a Netbook.

[P-Sign]

Originally Posted by Musketeer

Alright, if you only own a Netbook, then you really shouldn't be looking at RMXP games in the first place. Also, I understand that your other computer may be old and laggy, but in that case you should invest in upgrades or a new computer altogether. I got an RMXP game to run on Windows 98. And the overall population of Netbook users may be large, but WAY larger with people who own actual PCs.

Again, not everyone owns a homebrew capable NDS, or wants to, which could play PR. Same goes for Netbooks. Not everyone owns a Netbook.

I am just going to say that there are various emulators capable of playing .nds games on computers. Heck, they even exist for Android.