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Fourth Generation Diamond, Pearl, and Platinum kicked off the fourth generation of Pokémon. Two years later, fans of the Johto region were treated to a remastered adventure in HeartGold & SoulSilver. Discuss the games, explore the features, share your experiences, and help other players out!



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  #1    
Old January 4th, 2015 (03:56 AM).
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Like original titles—Gold, Silver, and Crystal—HeartGold and SoulSilver also had this Pokémon trainer at top of Mountain Silver, who is known as Red. In Kanto games, he was a playable character, and had majorly helped taking down Team Rocket in the region. If I'm not mistaken, in terms of game time-line, he was also champion at one point.

With all of this in mind, what are our thoughts on Red? When we'd faced him, how easy or difficult did we find him to be? If it's more on the difficult side, which of his team members would we say were most challenging?

As for myself, I couldn't defeat him first time I'd went up against the guy, but was able to get Red beaten on my second attempt. As for his Pokémon, they were all tough, but on top of them all, I would say Snorlax stands out most.
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Old January 4th, 2015 (04:20 AM).
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I'd say having a level 80 something Pikachu is ridiculous.
His difficulty for me is...medium-hard I guess, well I'm not really sure myself but let's go with that. While Snorlax wasn't that tough, it was annoying being a tank and all.
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Old January 4th, 2015 (04:33 PM).
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I was so happy to see that they kept him in the remakes. I was worried that they wouldn't. I love Red. He is always a challenge for me, and one I always look forward to when playing through HGSS or even the originals. Just walking up to him and seeing the '...' dialogue is epic enough. And that music? One of the best battles in a Pokemon game ever :3
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Old January 4th, 2015 (11:44 PM).
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He is overrated. I understand he was the first protagonist/very strong trainer, but I'd say there are far stronger trainers. Cynthia would dominate him. Or..myself possibly. ;]
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Old January 4th, 2015 (11:49 PM).
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I got up there with an extremely underleveled team, and got steamrolled. I would keep trying and trying, until I knocked out half his team in one battle. After that, I did some more training, and I finally beat Red with a team of level 63's, without using a single item. Only my Typhlosion survived.
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Old January 5th, 2015 (08:13 AM).
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An overrated trainer but still a cool concept nontheless.
Red isn't that difficult as long as you have a team above Level 65. The thing I hated the most about battling him in the remakes was that I needed Rock Climb to get to him. I like having a really good team battle Red and it's hard to do that when I have to remove a move slot for Rock Climb. Cursed HMs.
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Old January 5th, 2015 (12:10 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Alfieri:
An overrated trainer but still a cool concept nontheless.
Red isn't that difficult as long as you have a team above Level 65. The thing I hated the most about battling him in the remakes was that I needed Rock Climb to get to him. I like having a really good team battle Red and it's hard to do that when I have to remove a move slot for Rock Climb. Cursed HMs.
I hear ya. having to delete a good attack for a otherwise useless HM is very frustrating.
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Old January 5th, 2015 (05:59 PM).
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I don't remember what team I had when I first beat him, but in my second time in Heart Gold back in 2011, I had Feraligatr, Heracross, Ho-Oh, Ampharos and Golem, around Level 57-60, plus some HM slave or something. Took a while, but I beat him first try.

Three years later, in my most recent go from 2014, I had a team of Level 78s, and it turned out rather well except for my Nidoqueen and Slowking succumbing to his Snorlax. I really thought that Snorlax was going to sweep me (or bring me very close to failure), but my Quagsire and Forretress came to the rescue. Had to think things through a lot to have it work out.
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Old January 6th, 2015 (11:17 AM).
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He was medium to hard, depending the team I used.

I often wonder how he disappears like that, none of his team knows Fly or Teleport. And I don't know if you can use escape rope there like that or not.
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Old January 7th, 2015 (06:04 PM).
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When I first ever saw Red I was scared lol!
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Old January 7th, 2015 (07:00 PM).
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He's good but not what people make him out to be. I originally beat Red with a team of low level 60s although there was a lot of reviving and switching between pokemon to heal up. I remember also having a lot of difficulty with getting sleep haxed by Venusaur and a bit f trouble with Snorlax. Though other trainers in the series would arguably be harder (if they had the same levels), it's kinda cool battling a character you once played and trying to beat him. Also the music that plays while you're against him is amazing - even if it's also Lance's theme, you know you're up against someone tough. :]
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Old January 25th, 2015 (03:13 PM).
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The reason I didn't find him to be all that challenging is because I'm a total grinding freak when it comes to in-game teams.

As for the battle itself... it originally sounded very cool on paper, but it ultimately turned out to be a disappointment for two reasons:

1. The Hail: Honestly, the hail kinda degenerated the original fight from G/S to a minor annoyance. Heck, I wouldn't have been as annoyed if the animation didn't play every single turn (which was addressed in BW).

2. The need for HMs: You can't even fight him with your dream team, because either you need to mess up one of your Pokémon's moves, or you'd have to bring an irrelevant HM Slave to the battle.
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Old January 26th, 2015 (01:48 PM).
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Guys. . . Level 1 Sturdy Shuckle with Wrap and Toxic. There is absolutely nothing Red can do to combat this. There is a risk of the Hail, but if you send out Tyranitar first. . .
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Old February 13th, 2015 (06:53 PM).
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I don't care what anyone says about Red

To me, he is what every region Champion wishes they could be and I was heartbroken that he didn't appear in Gen VI
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Old February 14th, 2015 (07:41 AM).
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Pikachu and the Kanto starters were fairly simple. Snorlax got taken out in one punch by my Heracross (ten levels lower than it) and Lapras was defeated from what I remember by Bayleef.
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Old February 14th, 2015 (11:21 AM).
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His Snorlax and Lapras were the most difficult for me. The Kanto starters weren't too much trouble, and Pikachu didn't last long because it's frail.

I think I was in the high-70s-early 80s when I fought him. I know a lot of people are like "I beat him with levels in the 50s-60s lol" but being at lower levels than a trainer makes me feel vulnerable and insecure. The only reason I challenged him at the levels I did was because I lost patience with training.
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Old February 16th, 2015 (08:40 AM).
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Well, i never knew that Red was there until i saw a walk-through on YouTube! It was difficult but, i beat him!
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Old February 16th, 2015 (11:21 AM).
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Red was hard, but I managed to use Thief on his Pikachu, which means I got an extra item. I actually did that many times to get multiple Light Stones.
I used a Feraligatr to nerf all of his pokemon cauz it was around Lv 89 when I got there.
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Old February 16th, 2015 (05:46 PM).
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It makes me a little sad (and feel hella old) to know that there are some people who are fans of the Pokémon games, but don't even know who Red is.

He's awesome! I remember the first time I encountered him in Gold version, and even though he was referenced throughout the game, I still didn't fully grasp the situation until I saw a familiar little sprite in Mt. Silver. I think it was pretty cool that he only used Pokémon that are given to the player in Yellow version (although I think it's important to disregard Yellow as a significant game in most other regards). It was cool to face someone so ridiculously high in level, using such a great team of Pokémon. It was also a pretty nice touch in HGSS that he swapped his Espeon for a Lapras for the sake of having only 1st-gen Pokémon.

It was pretty cool that he appeared in the Pokémon World Tournament, alongside Blue. I, for one, have always wanted a little more from the Kanto/Johto storyline (we've fought Red atop Mt. Silver, now I want to fight Gold somewhere!). It was nice to see a bit of throwback, and to fight Red in a tournament setting.

It'd be nice to see some references to him in the other games, although I think the Pokémon universe is expanding to the point that no one story is 'the main story' from here on out.
Here's a slight deviation from the topic, but one that's worth considering (at least I think so). In ORAS' Delta Episode, it's heavily implied (heck, it's blatantly stated) that XYORAS take place in a separate Pokémon universe to all the previous games and generations. It's also been openly stated that RSE take place at the same time as RBY/FRLG.
With this in mind, ORAS/=/RSE, because ORAS is a different universe. The games themselves are in a different universe, and I believe until we reach our next Kanto remakes (given another 10 years or so), we won't be seeing Red for another while.
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Old 3 Days Ago (01:20 AM).
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By the Gen I or Gen II standards his team is tough, but the team they assigned him didn't received any great updates. As a result he's even easier to defeat than his GSC counterpart.
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Old 2 Days Ago (07:42 AM).
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I haven't ever liked Red. His team has never actually been that hard for me, and his character has never been that mysterious or edgy to me.
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Old 2 Days Ago (08:14 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Unapologetic Sunflower:
By the Gen I or Gen II standards his team is tough, but the team they assigned him didn't received any great updates. As a result he's even easier to defeat than his GSC counterpart.
The biggest problem is that they just blindly copy/pasted the old Yellow-based team from GSC, but for whatever reason, swiped out the Espeon for a (redundant) Lapras, so Red was greatly weakened.

Doing this was a HUGE mistake on GF's part. HGSS were supposed to be FRLG sequels, and FRLG incorporated nothing from Yellow, so the meaning of Red's team--the overleveled Pikachu and three Kanto starters--was completely lost.

And, by blindly copying over the Yellow-based Red from GSC, they also, in turn, completely wiped this poor girl from the games' canon. Played as the girl in FRLG? Sorry, your journey doesn't count! You're not the REAL Champion! Go back to the kitchen!
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Old 2 Days Ago (08:59 AM).
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I think battling Red will always be a big nostalgia factor for, despite the fact I never took him on 'till I made this account on the forums and started doing challenges! I prefer him having Espeon to Lapras, but his team still suits him though. I like the point about HGSS being sequels to FRLG so that the Pikachu doesn't make sense but I just can't see Red without a Pikachu!

now i really wanna read the adventures manga again agh!
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