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  #51    
Old June 22nd, 2011 (09:34 PM).
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Quote originally posted by mamoswineftw:
Well, I decided to do this on my laptop using an emulator, and LIBERAL use of save states. As such, I was able to catch a Spearow with 1 ball first time, go through Viridian Forest and level B the Squirtle to 9. Went through Pewter gym thanks to a LOT of luck and poor opponent decisions, finished up with B on about 6 health, level 12. By this stage, the timer is at 0:12.

I'm planning on doing this run with Blastoise and Dugtrio, so soloing until Vermillion and then lots of resetting until i catch a Duggy ASAP. I know it's going against what any run will actually be like, but I want to get to Duggy and then see how fast we can go.

The question I have now is what should I do? Heal at the pokemon center and stock up on items at the mart? Or heal with a potion, and buy stock, heal before Mt Moon?
Sounds like a good time to use one of those liberal savestates. What I did for Viridian Forest was save at the entrance, and then run through the forest about 10 times til I liked what happened, then ran through another 100 times to make sure it wasn't luck. Then I started from the beginning and did that about 10 times to make sure I didn't just get really good DV's. You should do that both with potion use and with PC heal.
Quote originally posted by Hacki101:
Jd, do you reckon you would be able to shave those 16 minutes off or is it too much of a longshot.

Imo, I do not think a duo run will be the answer, at least at the start of the game and a trio tun is definitely out of the question as the experience really needs to go into 1 pokemon.

Also, I have another contender to go on the shortlist: Hypno. Reasons: only 5 special lower than kadabra (base 115) and a lot higher stats in everything but speed(base 67), also easier to catch and train initally and available earlier in the game than abra. Movepool is lacking in variety but plenty of strong psychic and normal moves (att base 73) but it will only need psychic unless against other psychics. Hypnosis/Dream Eater combo is available too as a backup for stronger trainers. Thoughts??
I'm sure we all can improve lots of places. Even battling two trainers in reverse order can save like a whole minute. Keep trying and recording what you do. Once you're comfortable with it, then make minor changes to see what battling one extra person will do.
Quote originally posted by Karpman:
Haven't made any progress other than this.



I'll get to testing Kadabra soon.
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  #52    
Old June 22nd, 2011 (10:31 PM). Edited June 22nd, 2011 by RHIOneAlbum.
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Quote originally posted by Karpman:
Haven't made any progress other than this.



I'll get to testing Kadabra soon.
Absolute love.... This is so simple yet so amazing!
Im not going to bother making a big banner since this is so good.
I'ma probably make a userbar now though... lol

EDIT:




I can make these however you want Myrrh, I just liked the idea of a backtext one and the second one just came out looking interesting...
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  #53    
Old June 23rd, 2011 (07:39 AM). Edited June 23rd, 2011 by myrrhman.
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Its funny because on all three pages, I've been the first post.

I think Kadabra and Blastoise starts will be the same, since you'll be soloing with Blastoise for the first couple of gyms. I think the second part of the game should be you assembling your team and getting Zapdos as soon as you get the Masterball. I think Rival's Kadabra might be the only thing standing in your way, all of Giovanni's Pokemon will be a joke. Max Repels can be bought in Saffron, so that will help too.

I think Kadabra could be the one to happen in Yellow. I took a quick look at my chart I have for all the base stats of RBY Pokemon, and pretty much the only Pokemon that you'll see that have over 100 base special are: Alakazam, Tentacruel, Magneton, Hypno, Gengar, Exeggutor, Chansey, and Eevee's evolutions. Of those, Alakazam, Magneton, and Chansey can be torn apart by physical moves (and Exeggutor too, if its Zapdos's Drill Peck), Tentacruel and Gengar might be able to be overpowered by Psychic since they're dual poison, and there is only like 2 Hypno in the game. We'll be fighting Flareon, since we'll skip the optional Rival battle. Flareon does not have Vaporeon's HP or Jolteon's Speed. We'll be fine there.

Edit: I started playing some Yellow. Can anyone think of anything better than getting a Mankey and training it til it learns Low Kick at lv. 9? You can easily get there before Brock. Anyways, I think this is viable, as long as you get Mankey to lv. 4 before going into the Forest, you be sure to get/buy at least three of the potions before going into the forest (you'll need them), and you use Pikachu to battle the Metapods. I only had two potions, and went into the third battle with 6 HP left. I also had 6 Scratches left, so I wasn't going to be able to beat two more trainers like that. I had battled the first Metapod with Mankey, and it took 6 Scratches, with one of them being a crit.
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  #54    
Old June 25th, 2011 (02:57 AM).
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So I decided to do a run through Yellow with Nidoking. I was testing the viability of him with a single segment run.


I found a forum topic on SDA that addressed this, and here were some major obstacles that needed to be overcome (run breakers):
Spoiler:
Quote:
1. Giovanni's Dugtrio has Fissure and STAB Earthquake AND Dig, which are both OHKOs. In short, there are three possible ways for Dugtrio to kill you on the opening round. Checking a FAQ, there is one crippling weakness: Dugtrio has no other attacks. If you catch a Pidgey/Pidgeotto with Sand-Attack, you can open with Sand Attack and knock Dugtrio's accuracy to nil. Then you can bring Nidoking in and sweep with the OHKOs.

2. Lance's Gyrados is the second one. It has Hydro Pump, which is a OHKO against Nidoking. It does have 80% accuracy, so you might be able to dodge and then use Horn Drill to wipe out the rest except Aerodactyl.

3. Final battle Rival's Sandslash is the third one. It has Earthquake, which is a guaranteed 2HKO against Nidoking. In a SS run, I would suggest using Double Team and hope for consecutive misses. You're going to have to use Sandslash to set up Nidoking, since he follows with the last roadblock.

4. Final battle Rival's Alakazam is the last one. It can use Psybeam and Psychic, both are OHKOs. However, if you set up Nidoking against Sandslash, Alakazam is a push-over.
5. Although this wasn;t mentioned, I also had trouble with Sabrina's L50 Abra/Kababra/Alakazam because of a low Speed IV.


My major answer, especially for the late gamebreakers, was to use Zapdos. Without him, one misstep breaks the run, and it becomes dependent on luck, which is lame. Anyway, here are my answers:
Spoiler:
1. First, EQ wasn't a OHKO, but Nido is outsped and Ice Beam isn't a OHKO, so I was screwed anyway. I suppose the Pidgey strategy they propose is the best way, but I failed to catch one in Viridian Forest (need a L5 one at least), so I had a Spearow. I Growled it twice with him before Giovanni put up a Guard Spec, then swiched Nidoking into a Fissure, which thankfully missed (that's why Sand Attack might be a better strategy). EQ took down 35% of Nidoking's health, so I was able to use an X Speed and X accuracy and then Horn Drill for the win. If Giovanni uses a Guard Spec right away, just attack with Spearow/Pidgey until it goes away.

2. I used Zapdos. Thunderbolt OHKO.

3. Zapdos used Drill Peck a few times. It actually needed a crit to take him out, but I should have healed Zapdos in order to avoid a possible death.

4. Zapdos was still alive, and he 2HKOed with Drill Peck, and then I was home free.

5. For this one, the strategy in the segmented run was to set up X Speed and X Attack against Abra, then sweep with Earthquake. The problem is that Abra uses Flash, which can screw you if you miss. So Imade sure I had 2 Horn Drills left over from Sliph Co to take care of Kadabra and Alakazam, and EQ took out Abra. I also needed 2 X Speeds in order to outspeed Alakazam, as I had a low Speed IV.

Here are some other run comments:
  • First, I mostly just followed what the segmented runner did. It only branches off when I go get Zapdos right after beat Giovanni, although I could have and probably should have beaten my rival first in order to gain a level.

  • I did have a couple mishaps, like fighting a trainer in Cinnabar gym, and another trainer in Sliph Co.

  • I think that getting a Pidgey in Viridian Forest is a good idea order to beat Giovanni (better strategy anyway), although getting Zapdos beforehand is certainly an option.

  • One other thing I did differently was getting Spearow before Mt. Moon rather then after beating Misty.
So once I got Zapdos, here's how the E4 went:
Spoiler:

Lorelei: What I should have done was use my Rare Candies beforehand and use X Accuracy+OHKO move. However, Nidoking was only 56 exp points away from L47, so I wanted to wait. That was not a good idea. Dewgong can't OHKO Nidoking at L53, and he outspeeds everyone, so only an X Acccuracy is needed to sweep with Horn Drill.

Bruno: Another X Accuracy sweep from Nidoking with Fissure. USed a Elixer on Nidoking after this battle.

Agatha: Needed 2 X Speeds again here to get Gengar. also got paralyzed by Lick, but I had a couple unused ParaHeals, so I was fine. Sweep with EQ, 2 Ice Beams for Golbat.

Lance: Zapdos took down Gyarados, and after he died to either Dragonair or Aerodactyl, X accuracy and X Speed gave me the win with Horn Drill.

Rival: Led with Zapdos, who beat Sandslash, and I had Revives ready if Alakazam beat him. he didn't this time, but he easily can. Nidoking is a OHKO with Psychic (not Psybeam though), so Zapdos needs to face Zam. After Zam goes down, we're home free.


And the results are in!

I did use savestates a few times, especially since I wanted to test some stuff out. I also ended up redoing some stuff once I decided that Zapdos was needed, as I originally was following the segmented run strategy, which had me teaching Thunderbolt to Nidoking, and I needed Zapdos to learn it.

I ended up with a time of:



The segmented run is 2:28. I am actually surprised that no one really put forth the idea of using Zapdos on the SDA forum topic I looked at. Considering that the SS run of Red is 40 minutes longer than the segmented run, this seems like a better SS or somthing...

The Nidoking I soloed with had much better Attack and Special IVs than the one the segmented guy had, leading to some faster battles early on due to being able to 2HKO some foes that were being 3HKOed by the segmented runner. I think shooting for this time is a good goal. I will say that it may take some restarts to get a L6 Nidoran early enough, but it can save a bunch of time if you can get one.

And here are some team screenshots:
Spoiler:

Charmeleon - Dig, Cut
Lapras - Surf, Strength
Spearow - Fly

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  #55    
Old June 25th, 2011 (05:33 AM). Edited June 25th, 2011 by mamoswineftw.
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So, update time!

From where we last left off:
-Did not heal after Brock at PC, bought 6 Potions
-Defeated Lass with 2 Pidgeys, SR for crits to kill without much damage
-Used one potion on B (squirtle), up to 22 HP/40
-Defeated mandatory trainers, + jigglypuff trainer for exp
-did NOT heal at mt moon PC, used 1 more potion on Wartortle, entered mt moon level 17
-defeated clefairy trainer, hiker, mandatory TR guy at end and super nerd. NO WILD BATTLES (soft reset for a good run, saved after each trainer)
-healed at cerulean PC, saved before T(rival)
-LOTS of luck to beat him, took about 17 tries but managed to win with about 26 HP left
-beat Nugget bridge, water gun-ed all the pokemon with bubble for KOs to save PP when possible.
-beat hiker w/ Onix, Lass, hiker 2, and 2nd lass. Saved before last trainer, crits to beat Oddishes (learnt bite)
-helped Bill (too smart for his own good)
-skipped PC, went straight to gym after 1 potion to take B to about half HP )cant remember exactly)
-in fighting 1st swimmer, important that horseas 1st bubble does NOT reduce speed. KO both with bite
-save before 2nd trainer, make sure you take no damage
-save before misty. took me about 30 tries to defeat misty, ended up with 1 HP left. Basically, bite for the win, hope their are no x defends for starmie (bite will 2hko staryu despite 1 x defend), and hope the starmie has low damage rolls with tackle (if it attacks with any other move, reset. takes 3 bites and 1 crit to defeat starmie. if starmie does 5 HP damage, you should be fine
-healed at PC, taught B bubblebeam and left cerulean. time was about 0:41 (very fast i think!)
- defeated rocket, bite on drowzee to counter (relatively) high special stat
-saved once i exited underground path, made it through route below with no wild battles, fought 2 mandatory trainers. SR until you get pidgeys that are OHKO-d by bubblebeam (saves 3 turns). same for spearow/raticate, important to OHKO spearow
-went directly to diglett's cave, saved as i went down the ladder. now for the hard part
-walked about for around until first encounter. reset unless a dugtrio. (took about 6 times for first duggy)
-use one water gun, should do about 50% damage. 1 or 2 pokeballs to capture
-basically, catch it quickly! Got one about level 29, named it D
-shifted D to top of party, went straight to SS Anne (D had about 41HP)
-went to room with TM 08 Body Slam, defeated only the trainer with nidoran male
-taught D body slam, went to fight rival. won easily due to Body Slam + occasional crits from scratch
got cut HM, left SS Anne. traded spearow for Dux, taught it cut
-DID NOT HEAL AT PC! went to gym, saved outside and kept soft resetting until i was able to get the switches first try
-defeated all Surge's pokemon with Dig. Duggy to level 30
-went to pokemon fan club, got bike ticket, used dig to get straight back to cerulean
-got bicycle. yay! got on path to rock tunnel. defeated trainer with oddish/bellsprout, bug trainer.
-DID NOT HEAL AT PC outside rock tunnel
-now's the tricky part. I know rock tunnel by heart, but i recommend use of Myrrhman's map. once you defeat a trainer, SAVE so that you can reset. It is important that you get no wild encounters (i didn't buy repels)
-defeat 1st 3 trainers, they are mandatory
-at first part with 2 hikers, choose the bottom one. has a single lvl 25 geodude, easy to defeat
-taking the ladder, defeat another hiker (doesn't matter which one), hiker before next ladder (has geodude and graveller. dig first turn, geo tends to selfdestruct saving PP)
-go through next level. skip 2 jr trainers by walking along walls. also skip supernerd with 3 slowpokes, their defenses are too high to defeat
-defeat rest of the trainers in tunnel, simple enough.
-saved outside of Rock Tunnel. time is 1:06! I think that's VERY fast
-duggy is level 32. Knows scratch/dig/body slam/sand attack. haven't used wartortle since I caught duggy.

Sorry for the LONG, LONG update. Still, so far duggy is seeming to do quite well. I intend on teaching him rock slide soon, which I think may be all he needs. Rock Slide/Slash/Body Slam/Earthquake should be enough to pretty much OHKO most of the Elite 4. I'm wondering whether to catch Zapdos after Giovanni to make the E4 SLIGHTLY easier, but I'll tackle that when i come to it.

So, what do you guys reckon?

EDIT: btw Myrrhman, can I be added to the hotmail group? email address is [email protected] (used to be ftw, but your mistype on page 1 got me laughing). Any of you guys can use it to send me RELEVANT stuff relating to pokemon, I've created this account purely for that.
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  #56    
Old June 25th, 2011 (10:25 AM). Edited June 25th, 2011 by jdthebud.
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Quote originally posted by mamoswineftw:
Sorry for the LONG, LONG update. Still, so far duggy is seeming to do quite well. I intend on teaching him rock slide soon, which I think may be all he needs. Rock Slide/Slash/Body Slam/Earthquake should be enough to pretty much OHKO most of the Elite 4. I'm wondering whether to catch Zapdos after Giovanni to make the E4 SLIGHTLY easier, but I'll tackle that when i come to it.

So, what do you guys reckon?
Well, first of all, Fissure is a great move, if you have some Elixers and some X Accuracys. If you are doing this segmented, you don't need Zapdos at all, since both Gyarados (from Lance and your Rival) can be handled with 2 Rock Slides (Rival with 1 if you get some Attacks up), as long as Hydro Pump misses. Since you haven't gotten to Celadon yet, I would recommend getting the X Accuracys and X Attacks in the Dept store, as well as 10 or so Super Repels (and the Pokedoll, Fresh Water/Soda Pop for Rock Slide, etc). I don't think you'll need any X Speeds, though you might want one for Sabrina.

Also, don't be saving too often. getting Repels for Rock Tunnel is faster then saving after every battle, anyway, and it's not like you can't afford it.

That's all for now...I think we need to get some kind of mandatory checkpoint lists, in terms of buying items and stuff, maybe.

edit: I tried another run through Yellow, but Koga was a ***** with Sleep Powder, so I had to adjust for that as well. I was able to get pidgey this time, but I think it might be better to get Zapdos before fighting Giovanni, since you can set up on the next one anyway, and it actually would take less time to kill Dugtrio, probably. ended with 2:52, and I had some mistakes in there.
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  #57    
Old June 25th, 2011 (03:59 PM).
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Okay,this one's tricky.Do not get Flash,to get it you must catch a lot of mons and waste some time,so don't get it.You can got thru the Rock TUnnel fine if you have already plaed the games a lot.Which must be very easy for mhyrrman
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  #58    
Old June 25th, 2011 (07:35 PM).
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Quote originally posted by 竜の子:
Okay,this one's tricky.Do not get Flash,to get it you must catch a lot of mons and waste some time,so don't get it.You can got thru the Rock TUnnel fine if you have already plaed the games a lot.Which must be very easy for mhyrrman
Actually, there's another possible way I can think of. When you switch on the gameboy, you know when the word 'GAMEBOY' flashes across the screen, if you press on the d-pad the colours change. This makes it possible to see relatively well in Rock Tunnel. I haven't EVER used flash in-game actually (my 10-year old self spent about 4 weeks stuck in that cave, I know it like the back of my hand now), but for those not so familiar it can help.
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  #59    
Old June 26th, 2011 (07:14 AM).
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Actually in my first time I used a map,but on teh second I had already memorized it
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  #60    
Old June 26th, 2011 (09:01 AM).
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Sorry for my inactivity, but ive been doing some stuff in real life and on PO the last couple of days But the Charizard solo will return to business tomorrow :D
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  #61    
Old June 26th, 2011 (09:41 AM).
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Quote originally posted by 竜の子:
Okay,this one's tricky.Do not get Flash,to get it you must catch a lot of mons and waste some time,so don't get it.You can got thru the Rock TUnnel fine if you have already plaed the games a lot.Which must be very easy for mhyrrman
That was a long time ago. Now I've pretty much memorized all the trainers and all their Pokemon.
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Old June 26th, 2011 (09:48 AM).
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So you forgot the map but memorized the trianers or memorized both?I'm confused
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  #63    
Old June 26th, 2011 (11:14 AM).
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Quote originally posted by 竜の子:
So you forgot the map but memorized the trianers or memorized both?I'm confused
We know the route to take, which also includes trainers to avoid.

Myrrh, why don't you post the map (and chart too) on the front page?
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  #64    
Old June 26th, 2011 (11:18 AM).
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KK,then just wish you all good luck.See you if this ever get a GSC version
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  #65    
Old June 26th, 2011 (01:23 PM).
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Quote originally posted by 竜の子:
KK,then just wish you all good luck.See you if this ever get a GSC version
Keep your eyes open. If we break the record for RB (and maybe yellow), I'd personally want nothing more than to move on to GSC.
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  #66    
Old June 27th, 2011 (06:36 PM). Edited June 27th, 2011 by jdthebud.
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OK, I just ran through Yellow again, without reverting to savestates (except for once against Sabrina when I forgot to use 2 X Speeds instead of 1 and got raped by Alakazam), using Zapdos against Giovanni's Dugtrio.

Time: 2:44, the same time I got the first time. Granted, I got lucky a couple times (Misty could have beat me, but used X Defend), but overall it was pretty clean. I think I need to buy more X Items next time so as to be safe in case I do get critted so it will be possible to revive and set up again. this time I bout 9 Z Accuracys and Speeds, and 2 X Attacks, so like 12 each acc and Speed and 4 X Attacks.

I dealt with Koga by using Horn Drill instead of Rock Slide, since Venomoth was a 2HKO even with an X Attack, and I didn't need to go to the store beforehand since I have the Pokeflute, although it might be safer to do so in case you get double critted by Psychic (with a Special fall).

This time can still be cut down, by the way. I made a few path mistakes again, could have caught Nidoran faster (although I did catch it at L6, which saved some time, and I also caught Pidgey while looking for it too), and I went to the Mart/Safari Zone before fighting Koga, which may not be needed. I also made a switch to Pidgey during Giovanni's fight on accident, which lost me a minute or so. I'm thinking that an exceptional time would be 2:38 or 2:40. I did score in the Vermilion Gym, getting the trash cans on the first try, which could have made up several minutes, which is why 2:40 would be very good in my opinion.

I will be putting together a rough guide for Yellow using Nidoking, kind of like Myrrh's unfinished one (Cough Cough) for Red. Look for it here and on the MSN Alpha Fan group page in the next couple days.
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Old June 27th, 2011 (09:44 PM).
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Quote originally posted by jdthebud:
OK, I just ran through Yellow again, without reverting to savestates (except for once against Sabrina when I forgot to use 2 X Speeds instead of 1 and got raped by Alakazam), using Zapdos against Giovanni's Dugtrio.

Time: 2:44, the same time I got the first time. Granted, I got lucky a couple times (Misty could have beat me, but used X Defend), but overall it was pretty clean. I think I need to buy more X Items next time so as to be safe in case I do get critted so it will be possible to revive and set up again. this time I bout 9 Z Accuracys and Speeds, and 2 X Attacks, so like 12 each acc and Speed and 4 X Attacks.

I dealt with Koga by using Horn Drill instead of Rock Slide, since Venomoth was a 2HKO even with an X Attack, and I didn't need to go to the store beforehand since I have the Pokeflute, although it might be safer to do so in case you get double critted by Psychic (with a Special fall).

This time can still be cut down, by the way. I made a few path mistakes again, could have caught Nidoran faster (although I did catch it at L6, which saved some time, and I also caught Pidgey while looking for it too), and I went to the Mart/Safari Zone before fighting Koga, which may not be needed. I also made a switch to Pidgey during Giovanni's fight on accident, which lost me a minute or so. I'm thinking that an exceptional time would be 2:38 or 2:40. I did score in the Vermilion Gym, getting the trash cans on the first try, which could have made up several minutes, which is why 2:40 would be very good in my opinion.

I will be putting together a rough guide for Yellow using Nidoking, kind of like Myrrh's unfinished one (Cough Cough) for Red. Look for it here and on the MSN Alpha Fan group page in the next couple days.
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Old June 30th, 2011 (01:39 AM). Edited June 30th, 2011 by jdthebud.
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so I recorded another Yellow SS run, here's the link to download if you want. It was pretty sloppy sometimes, but I still got 2:42 since I encountered a L4 Nidoran right away, and got the locks in the Vermilion gym on the first try - both those places are time wasters. I should have gotten under 2:40 though.

*626 MB, megaupload*

I recorded it in several parts so I could take breaks, then mashed them together in one file, so there are random place I paused for a bit to stop and restart recording.

anyway, the guide I'm planning on making for Yellow will refer to this video at times, so it might be helpful to watch.

What kind of run are we looking to submit to Guinness, Myrrh? Segmented or single segmented? Do you know anything about their policies yet?
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Old June 30th, 2011 (05:43 AM).
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Nope. I'll probably contact them sometime next week. I'd like to submit both if possible, though.

In other news, I've begun working on Yellow Kadabra! Currently just messing around with the beginning of the game.
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Old July 19th, 2011 (04:13 PM).
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I feel like I should be testing a pokemon right now. It'd probably take me one dedicated day of play, but that's not too bad. Is there any Pokemon that still needs to undergo testing? If there is, I'll gladly go for it.
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Old July 27th, 2011 (12:51 AM).
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I'd like to give this a shot, and maybe do better then I did for the GT8 get together. I'm not sure which Pokemon to use though...
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Old July 30th, 2011 (02:44 AM).
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Is anyone still testing here? I haven't really done anything since I posted that video (for Nidoking on Yellow), since I don't see a way to cut time off significantly. As for a Blastoise run, I think we need to see if doing the E4 without Zapdos is viable (for a single segmented run).
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