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  #51    
Old June 27th, 2011, 05:05 PM
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I've never encountered Keldeo(and I hope I never do) so I've never really been put in that kind of predicament or anything, fortunately. The worst I've ever faced is, like I said, Genesect, and the occasional Garchomp here and there(on the PO server of course, whereas it wasn't banned yet). I even faced a sub chomp once, in which I promptly knew that there was no way I could ever possibly win.

And then I faced a mew once, who's completely kinda unpredictable whatsoever because it can learn any move, etc.
  #52    
Old June 27th, 2011, 07:31 PM
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For those of you who care:

1. I forbid the use of my guides etc as they will be reserved for people who actually appreciate.

2. Goodbye, i wont be coming back.
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  #53    
Old June 28th, 2011, 05:31 PM
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well let's let this thread get to a point where we can start discussing things again

who has seen this? i think it's a really interesting concept but something that you'd have to build -entirely- new teams for. you'd think that removing hax would be as simple as removing crit chances but that's really removing every kind of luck there is at all. plus a lot of things will be less good - notably jirachi, but outrage users beware: "Outrage always lasts two turns and lowers the user's Atk and SpA 2 stages when it ends."

i mean, it sounds really really interesting and something that would be hard to get into at the same time because of all the new restrictions you'd have to get used to. on the plus side, things like stone bad and focus miss will be a lot easier to use but focus blast also is a drop in spA.... idk, it's so weird! a whole new metagame, even. what are your thoughts on a server like this and what do you think you'd use on your team if you battled on it? discuss gogogogo!!!
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  #54    
Old June 28th, 2011, 05:38 PM
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My opinion, but I think it's pretty bad. While I agree with most Smogon users there that it incorporates new strategy, there are only so many teams you could build to work around the new rules, and as thus, it feels more like a restriction more than an actual challenge. It would normally take much longer to build teams, as DynamicPunch is key to things like No Guard Machamp, and some Bronzong Hypnosis users(as well as Hypnosis Gengar) might find their Pokemon less...desirable to use(meaning that, in those conditions, Bronzong would just be set-up bait and nothing more, really).

I dunno, I personally don't feel that it's for me. D:

Last edited by Zorua; June 28th, 2011 at 05:43 PM.
  #55    
Old June 28th, 2011, 05:41 PM
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It's a neat idea for sure, but I'd refrain from playing it because I have no problems with the current metagame. Sure, luck becomes annoying, but I figure "so what". I never ladder though, so it's probably just an opinion that formed because I just casual battle and hax never gets to me.
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  #56    
Old June 28th, 2011, 05:51 PM
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Here are my personal feelings about crits and luck though:

It happens in Pokemon. I personally believe that no one should take it seriously to the extent to create a whole different ladder where it's "luck-free" or "crit-free" or what have you in any manner whatsoever. Sure, I might get annoyed if my Pokemon get a crit or whatnot, it's all part of my opponent being lucky at that specific moment and time. In the end, it's a Pokemon game, and they're there for entertainment. No need to take things to the extreme.
  #57    
Old June 28th, 2011, 05:55 PM
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It doesn't really appeal to me much especially because no moves ever miss (though of course they had to do that to eliminate luck). It's really just a whole new game and it's kind of impossible to speculate :o. It is good that players who despise luck have a place to play though.

At least Rock Slide won't miss anymore X)
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  #58    
Old June 28th, 2011, 05:58 PM
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i did say i would have liked it with just no critical hits on the server, but it does seem interesting with the changes. i may make a team for that metagame when the server is up. nothing else to mention about it...i'm not really against it since it's just a side metagame.
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Last edited by wolf; June 28th, 2011 at 06:24 PM.
  #59    
Old June 28th, 2011, 06:09 PM
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Awesome.

I'll definitely at least be trying it out, it'll let me use lots of sets that were pretty unavailable before because of certain things (Like Dynamicpunch Machamp completely outclassing Guts Close Combat).
  #60    
Old June 28th, 2011, 06:19 PM
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Ok Spartan, look. You linked to pornography. There are two locations for the rules (a sticky here in CBC, and one on the server itself). It alerts you upon logging in that you can read the rules with a /rule command. In pink text by the way also highlighted by the *** on either side. Also, when is pornography ever OK to post? Your argument seems to revolve around the idea that you didn't know the rules, but no pornography shouldn't even have to be said as it's a general rule of any forum that isn't...adult-oriented.

Regardless, this conversation is better suited for PM or VM.

To put this thread back on track:

The whole Thunder / Blizzard / etc dropping respective stats is basically a D-meteor thing, making those moves rely on STAB it seems. Thundurus could be fun to run Specs on with Thunder. Tornadus would be the same, but with Hurricane.
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  #61    
Old June 28th, 2011, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aero
The whole Thunder / Blizzard / etc dropping respective stats is basically a D-meteor thing, making those moves rely on STAB it seems. Thundurus could be fun to run Specs on with Thunder. Tornadus would be the same, but with Hurricane.
Except those sets would be riskier to run, seeing as, unless competitive battliing utilizes White Herb, that those attacks would be walled somewhat easily after the first attack.
  #62    
Old June 28th, 2011, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ooka View Post
Awesome. :)

I'll definitely at least be trying it out, it'll let me use lots of sets that were pretty unavailable before because of certain things (Like Dynamicpunch Machamp completely outclassing Guts Close Combat).
I still think Machamp in general will be outclassed because it no longer has that cute confusion to abuse. ;o Plus things like Conkeldurr will straight-up outclass it, tbh. I'd be excited to see a server where Will-o-Wisp never misses, too. :(
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  #63    
Old June 28th, 2011, 06:26 PM
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Well Thundurus and Tornadus both have base 125 Special Attack, making those STABs do extremely high damage, must like Latios (but he has 130 Special Attack). It would certainly be easier to resist than a dragon type stab I guess.
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  #64    
Old June 28th, 2011, 06:26 PM
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Hm..a server where hydro pump always hits....

Well ladies and gentlemen, I guess we all know Rotom-W might be abused there?

Quote:
Well Thundurus and Tornadus both have base 125 Special Attack, making those STABs do extremely high damage, must like Latios (but he has 130 Special Attack). It would certainly be easier to resist than a dragon type stab I guess.
Well yeah, I agree, they would do very high damage for the most part. After the first attack though, the second is mostly unreliable and unpredictable on whether it would cause an OHKO or not because of the drop in Sp.Atk and whatnot.

Last edited by Zorua; June 28th, 2011 at 06:33 PM.
  #65    
Old June 28th, 2011, 06:32 PM
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It'd be the same thing as a lot of hit and run attacks are now - like Specs Latios. In their respective weathers I think they'd feel fairly underwhelming though, considering that they'd perform the same way they do now but without the chance to paralyze or confuse. Just a thought, anyway.
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  #66    
Old June 28th, 2011, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrai View Post
It'd be the same thing as a lot of hit and run attacks are now - like Specs Latios. In their respective weathers I think they'd feel fairly underwhelming though, considering that they'd perform the same way they do now but without the chance to paralyze or confuse. Just a thought, anyway.
Honestly, I don't even think that's going to be the most broken/abused thing when it comes to that particular ladder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smogon
Moves such as Scald, Lava Plume, Discharge, Body Slam and Force Palm always inflict status on the second consecutive attempt.
Jirachi could still run rampant with Body slam, and I think Heatran might be used more often too.

And expect the rise of Slowbro/Slowking on this ladder. Knowing Scald inflicts burn on second consecutive attempt, they could be more efficient walls and what have you.

Also, I kinda forgot about Milotic. More of the lesser used water types now becoming overused with just about guaranteed burn with scald.
  #67    
Old June 28th, 2011, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twilight Sky View Post
Honestly, I don't even think that's going to be the most broken/abused thing when it comes to that particular ladder.



Jirachi could still run rampant with Body slam, and I think Heatran might be used more often too.

And expect the rise of Slowbro/Slowking on this ladder. Knowing Scald inflicts burn on second consecutive attempt, they could be more efficient walls and what have you.

Also, I kinda forgot about Milotic. More of the lesser used water types now becoming overused with just about guaranteed burn with scald.
well, think about it - it's not like only jirachi can run rampant with body slam! other things could use it as well. also notable is that since those things happen on the second consecutive attempt, it'd make prediction for the opponent a bit easier - who wouldn't go for the paralysis? you can just switch off to a ghost or water-immune or whatever. plus you would also anticipate literally all of that - want conkeldurr to get burned? bait a scald. it's just like adding layers and layers of mindgames, just because things can only happen on the second consecutive use. ;-;
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  #68    
Old June 28th, 2011, 07:08 PM
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Honestly, I never found moves like Scald to be hax that was supposed to happen. Even with a 30% rate of a status condition, it's annoying when Jellicent try and spam Scald at Ferrothorn until it gets a burn. I'd rather that gets removed. It will be relieving to see moves like Stone Edge hit, however. Instead of biting your nails every time you choose to use them.
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  #69    
Old June 28th, 2011, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrai View Post


well, think about it - it's not like only jirachi can run rampant with body slam! other things could use it as well. also notable is that since those things happen on the second consecutive attempt, it'd make prediction for the opponent a bit easier - who wouldn't go for the paralysis? you can just switch off to a ghost or water-immune or whatever. plus you would also anticipate literally all of that - want conkeldurr to get burned? bait a scald. it's just like adding layers and layers of mindgames, just because things can only happen on the second consecutive use. ;-;
Here's the thing though: The more and more that I think about paralysis, the more that I think that it doesn't really matter anymore. The reason that I believe so, is that there are mostly slow pokemon like t-tar, jellicent, your standard OU Pokemon and whatever are slow this generation(with the exception of Lucario, the genies and I think the musketeers and some others I think), so thats why I'm questioning the actual reliability of thunderwave. You'd really have to rely on luck more often than not for it to actually paralyze your opponent so you would get a free turn to do whatever, pretty much.

In this ladder, I would find burn or even sleep to be more highly effective. Things like Conkeldurr? Put him to sleep, it's better than giving him anything else with what, a 1.5x boots with guts(at least, I believe it's that)?

What I'm basically trying to say is that, this ladder is just asking for nothing but status and stall matches, possibly. Offensive could be used to a good extent, but a lot of offensive teams rely on 120 BP moves, and having a Draco Meteor on every single pokemon in your team is going to get old eventually, and most likely predictable. You would have to hit and run everytime, or just run a Pokemon @ White herb for an effective sweep or something.
  #70    
Old June 28th, 2011, 07:15 PM
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has anyone battled on that yet? does it affect gameplay that much really??

also did my avatar work? lol
  #71    
Old June 28th, 2011, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karpman View Post
Honestly, I never found moves like Scald to be hax that was supposed to happen. Even with a 30% rate of a status condition, it's annoying when Jellicent try and spam Scald at Ferrothorn until it gets a burn. I'd rather that gets removed. It will be relieving to see moves like Stone Edge hit, however. Instead of biting your nails every time you choose to use them.
Taunt Jellicent wins against Ferrothorn if it catches it with Will-o-Wisp, actually. I've honestly only lost Jellicent to Ferro if Will-o-Wisp misses multiple times in a row or if they crit me multiple times in a row. ;-; But yeah, Stone Edge will definitely see a lot more usage on everything that can use it well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twilight Sky View Post
Here's the thing though: The more and more that I think about paralysis, the more that I think that it doesn't really matter anymore. The reason that I believe so, is that there are mostly slow pokemon like t-tar, jellicent, your standard OU Pokemon and whatever are slow this generation(with the exception of Lucario, the genies and I think the musketeers and some others I think), so thats why I'm questioning the actual reliability of thunderwave. You'd really have to rely on luck more often than not for it to actually paralyze your opponent so you would get a free turn to do whatever, pretty much.

In this ladder, I would find burn or even sleep to be more highly effective. Things like Conkeldurr? Put him to sleep, it's better than giving him anything else with what, a 1.5x boots with guts(at least, I believe it's that)?

What I'm basically trying to say is that, this ladder is just asking for nothing but status and stall matches, possibly. Offensive could be used to a good extent, but a lot of offensive teams rely on 120 BP moves, and having a Draco Meteor on every single pokemon in your team is going to get old eventually, and most likely predictable. You would have to hit and run everytime, or just run a Pokemon @ White herb for an effective sweep or something.
Actually, I totally forgot that full paralysis wouldn't happen on this ladder. The only purpose would be to slow everything down anyway...... and I mean, slowing things down is nice but it's just not the same if you don't get the chance to have free turns like you do with paralysis now. I don't think we'd see anything like Body Slam, anyway. It's just that you're not getting enough out of it - if you want guaranteed paralysis, use Thunder Wave which does the same thing on the first turn. With Conk, I'd rather just go for the KO anyway. :x

I think it's asking for a lot of prediction and very very good teambuilding. You'll have to be very effective with your team choices to have any kind of relative success in this kind of metagame - and, it does remove luck. You have to out-skill the other person to win. :x
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  #72    
Old June 28th, 2011, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrai View Post

I think it's asking for a lot of prediction and very very good teambuilding. You'll have to be very effective with your team choices to have any kind of relative success in this kind of metagame - and, it does remove luck. You have to out-skill the other person to win. :x
Well for me, I think it would rather be more difficult teambuilding rather than "good". I'm not saying it would be bad in any way, but it would be very...different to what we're usually accustomed to. For me, prediction is always imperative whether it's the current ladder or the hax-free ladder, so that part hasn't changed(and most likely wont).

I can certain expect to see a lot of Lum Berry use though, don't you think?
  #73    
Old June 28th, 2011, 07:38 PM
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The more you guys talk about it the better it sounds. So is the server up already? Like, can I play? lol, I'm excited. A whole new metagame with the same Pokemon, awesome.
  #74    
Old June 28th, 2011, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twilight Sky View Post
Well for me, I think it would rather be more difficult teambuilding rather than "good". I'm not saying it would be bad in any way, but it would be very...different to what we're usually accustomed to. For me, prediction is always imperative whether it's the current ladder or the hax-free ladder, so that part hasn't changed(and most likely wont).

I can certain expect to see a lot of Lum Berry use though, don't you think?
That's what I meant, though my usage of the word "good" was more inclined to... well, that a team has to be built very effectively and purposefully to be successful, where sometimes you can get away with imperfect teams on the regular ladder. I was just trying to say that I think prediction will be taken to whole new heights and for a lot of different reasons, as compared to the usual ladder - there are lots of new situational things that really have a huge impact on prediction in general, imo.

I actually don't imagine a lot of status abuse. Sure, W-o-W hits now, but aside from that there isn't that much reason to use status imho, especially since the sleep counter only lasts two turns and never resets, as well as freeze being nonexistant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ooka View Post
The more you guys talk about it the better it sounds. So is the server up already? Like, can I play? lol, I'm excited. A whole new metagame with the same Pokemon, awesome.
I believe it is, though you might want to read through the thread to find out. I'm not sure I'd be up for it though - I've still gotta get better at our current metagame. ;-;
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  #75    
Old June 29th, 2011, 04:32 AM
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I...I don't know about the new metagame. Sure some Pokemon like Terrakion would certainly appreciate Stone Edge NOT MISSING but it isn't really bad at all when it does, even if it does cost you the game. Though I always complain about hax and how much I hate it, it doesn't really feel like it's same game without it. It's always tense when you have to rely on a move that misses every time, biting your nail waiting for your opponent and then it hits/misses. Yeah, I like that. I also like relying on hax with Jirachi, or being careful of getting haxed. I only hate losing and being haxed from a noob, but when it's against someone good, I think it only adds to the intensity to the match, which is good.
It's really like Mario Kart Wii. I always complained about the hax there (and it's really BS) but when I tried playing without items it was just...not fun anymore.
I might try it and see if it's better, but for now I'm sticking with the current metagame.

Last edited by Spinosaurus; June 29th, 2011 at 07:37 AM.
 
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