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  #101    
Old August 23rd, 2011, 09:54 PM
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I keep misreading the title as "Who do you hate..." on the forum index. I'm sure that would be a more active topic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OnyxDemon View Post
When people have horrible grammar in their stories >_<


But yes, you can't just simply brush off everyone who posts with bad grammar. Most of the time, they don't know the rules. It's only after they fight back against the reviewers who are trying to help them that they get the side-eye.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Electricmudkip View Post
Well, this is probably a little narrow, but I dislike most Ferrishweelshipping fics. They all portray N as Prince Sexy and ignore oh I don't know, most of his canon personality. They often tend to portray Hilda as a self-insert, too.
To add onto this, quite a few fics that focus on N seem to forget his difficulties fitting in with society. I mean, he's not going to know how to interact with people right away.
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  #102    
Old September 20th, 2011, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astinus View Post
To add onto this, quite a few fics that focus on N seem to forget his difficulties fitting in with society. I mean, he's not going to know how to interact with people right away.
I do think that this pairing could work in a fanfic if the character were portrayed correctly and the romance was handled well.

Like Hilda finds N interesting and handsome as a person as well as admirable for his love for Pokemon and N finds Hilda interesting because she actually seems to love her Pokemon and vice versa. But their different beliefs on Pokemon and people (which are resolved in the end) keep them apart as well as their inexperience in romance, N especially since he was raised to hate humans but now finds himself in love with Hilda.

Now have that develop correctly and it'll work wonders.

Last edited by matt0044; September 21st, 2011 at 03:18 PM.
  #103    
Old September 20th, 2011, 02:58 PM
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Why did you specifically point out slash writers when talking about a het ship? If you were talking about Hilbert/N, then your comment about slash writers would have made a little more sense. Right now, though, it seems like you're just making negative comments about slash writers for no reason related to your post.
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  #104    
Old September 20th, 2011, 03:44 PM
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Yeeeah, Matt, the slash fic writer comment was really not necessary. Just because they don't ship a favorite pairing of yours does not make it wrong. At least, that's the thing you're implying.
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  #105    
Old September 20th, 2011, 06:46 PM
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Not to mention that if I'm reading his post correctly, he's implying that slash fic authors are incapable of writing happy endings, develop characters properly, and handle romance well. Which, uh, is actually the opposite of what slash writers in this fandom do. I mean, just look at the top BNF for slash fic in this fandom, Windsong. Pretty much noted for her ability to portray characters excellently, develop a good story (regardless of the ending), and, of course, play up the romance so that it's not sappy. And Windsong isn't an exception, either. Most LJ slash fic writers are actually perfectly capable of writing happy endings (*motions to the kink meme as well as Pokefics and Pokeprompts*), sometimes even more so than het writers (*motions to most of FFNet*). This isn't, of course, to say that het writers can't write romance worth crap; it's just saying that, actually, slash fic authors are known for exactly what matt is accusing them of failing to do... even more so than het writers thanks to the stereotypes created thanks to FFNet, unfortunately.

Tl;dr, actually reading slash fic is a necessity for making comments about it, just so you know. :/
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  #106    
Old September 21st, 2011, 03:10 PM
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Alright, Alright! I realize mistake and I edit my post for that. I'm sorry and I hope I don't do it again. And I know that fics that support a pairing have happy endings. I was just saying in relation to N/Hilda fics.

Also, if people don't support the same pairing as I do, big flippin' deal! They have their reasons for it and why should I complain? I was just pointing out how the N/Hilda pairing could work with the right writing.

There. Now will you please stop jumping down my throat (at least it feels like it)? I'm sorry, okay?

Is it me or do I get into a lot of misunderstandings due to my way with words? I know that I'm infamous to some but serious...

Last edited by matt0044; September 21st, 2011 at 03:16 PM.
  #107    
Old September 22nd, 2011, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
Also, if people don't support the same pairing as I do, big flippin' deal! They have their reasons for it and why should I complain? I was just pointing out how the N/Hilda pairing could work with the right writing.
Just so we're all on the same page, you know that "slash fic" is generally defined as "fic that's about two characters of the same gender in a sexual or romantic relationship," right? That's why we all dogpiled you for mentioning slash fic authors -- because not only does it pretty much insult a sizable group of people, but it was also a non sequitur if you were talking about N/Hilda, which is a het (heterosexual) ship.

So... yeah. That's why we couldn't figure out why you brought it up.

Quote:
There. Now will you please stop jumping down my throat (at least it feels like it)?
If you don't want us to jump down your throat, then don't, in the future, insult large groups of people for no apparent reason. :/ Seems pretty straightforward to me.

I mean, I'm sorry. I'd accept your apology and everything, but the fact that you're being confrontational and attempting to play the victim card when you sort of insulted a large group of people sort of makes the apology seem rather insincere -- like you're apologizing just because we called you out on something that wasn't cool, rather than because you know why what you said would be considered offensive.

To make it a bit easier (and to get back to a more civil tone), put it this way. If you're about to generalize (lump bunches of people/fics/whatever into one group), don't. Chances are, there's going to be a lot of people who disagree with you or who can prove that the generalization you're making has a lot of exceptions. It's just safer to avoid generalizing.

Quote:
Is it me or do I get into a lot of misunderstandings due to my way with words? I know that I'm infamous to some but serious...
Reading over your posts before you hit submit to see whether or not they contain anything that would get you in trouble might be a good idea in all seriousness.
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  #108    
Old September 23rd, 2011, 02:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JX Valentine View Post
Just so we're all on the same page, you know that "slash fic" is generally defined as "fic that's about two characters of the same gender in a sexual or romantic relationship," right? That's why we all dogpiled you for mentioning slash fic authors -- because not only does it pretty much insult a sizable group of people, but it was also a non sequitur if you were talking about N/Hilda, which is a het (heterosexual) ship.

So... yeah. That's why we couldn't figure out why you brought it up.
To be honest, I wasn't sure and I guess I got the terms mixed up. Again, I apologize.

Quote:
I mean, I'm sorry. I'd accept your apology and everything, but the fact that you're being confrontational and attempting to play the victim card when you sort of insulted a large group of people sort of makes the apology seem rather insincere -- like you're apologizing just because we called you out on something that wasn't cool, rather than because you know why what you said would be considered offensive.
It's just that, well, I've seen a lot of bad fanfics and few good ones involving slash or other shippings on FFnet. Don't get me wrong, I know that there are a lot of good ones I never seen due to not being interested in the fandoms they're based on but I probably never seen them.

I was kinda joking too. It's like an assumption that shipping fics are bad on FFnet. But I guess I wasn't very funny, was I?

Quote:
To make it a bit easier (and to get back to a more civil tone), put it this way. If you're about to generalize (lump bunches of people/fics/whatever into one group), don't. Chances are, there's going to be a lot of people who disagree with you or who can prove that the generalization you're making has a lot of exceptions. It's just safer to avoid generalizing.
And now I know. (And knowing is half the battle.) Again, I'm sorry for offending everyone with my comment. I realize my mistakes now.

Quote:
Reading over your posts before you hit submit to see whether or not they contain anything that would get you in trouble might be a good idea in all seriousness.
Sometimes, I don't even know what's offensive or not. Yes, I know not to make fun of others but there are times when I don't know whether or not I'm being offensive with my words on these forums like with you guys. And it's not like I'm know for checking that much either.
--------
If I offend anyone with my words in this post, I didn't mean to. Really, I didn't.

Last edited by matt0044; September 23rd, 2011 at 02:57 AM.
  #109    
Old September 23rd, 2011, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
To be honest, I wasn't sure and I guess I got the terms mixed up.
Search for the terms on the Internet, or lurk more. And if you really don't know what the term means, don't use it. That way, you'd know that slash refers to.

Quote:
It's just that, well, I've seen a lot of bad fanfics and few good ones involving slash or other shippings on FFnet. Don't get me wrong, I know that there are a lot of good ones I never seen due to not being interested in the fandoms they're based on but I probably never seen them.
You do know that the Pokemon fandom has a lot of slash fics, right? Like, you can't even spit anywhere on this fandom without finding a Red/Green, Ash/Gary, Volkner/Flint, or Morty/Eusine fic. Pretty much any fandom has slash fics.

Besides, if you know that there are good ones, then don't say that all slash fics are bad.

In fact, saying "all of this is bad" is on the road to offending people. So don't say it. Even if you were joking, because jokes can be offensive.

Quote:
Sometimes, I don't even know what's offensive or not. Yes, I know not to make fun of others but there are times when I don't know whether or not I'm being offensive with my words on these forums like with you guys.
Again I say: lurk more. Then you'd know how a place and its regulars act and who they are. Like then you might know that several people here write slash fics, and telling them that they don't know how to write is a pretty bad idea. Then you'll know what kind of jokes to make that are funny and don't wind up with you looking like the bad person.
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  #110    
Old September 23rd, 2011, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
It's just that, well, I've seen a lot of bad fanfics and few good ones involving slash or other shippings on FFnet.
Welcome to a place that isn't FFNet?

FFNet is only a tiny portion of this fandom's fanfic, so writing a generalization that fails to specify that you mean one site's shipping fic won't get people to agree with you. Like I said, there's a lot of shipping fic on places like LJ, and it's not unusual for someone on a forum to write one either.

Besides, the fic you're talking about is only a percentage of all of the shipping fic on that site. I know that, for example, Windsong posts her work on FFNet, so there's at least some good shipping fic there. Not only that, but if you try not to look at the more mainstream ships, you can find quite a few gems. (Some of the earliest Jessie x James fics are pretty good. Rocketshippers used to be a pretty sizable fanbase with tons of awesome writers.)

So, yeah, you don't even have to leave the fandom to find decent romance fic. You just need to know what to look for or where to look.

Quote:
I was kinda joking too. It's like an assumption that shipping fics are bad on FFnet.
Like I said, when you generalize -- especially on a forum in a discussion that's about the fandom in general -- people aren't going to assume you mean X place, even if that's where you mainly post. We have nothing to go on, especially because this isn't the place you were referring to.

I'm just saying all of this to help you understand a bit better for the future. I get that you don't want to offend people again; I'm just offering a heads up.

Quote:
Sometimes, I don't even know what's offensive or not.
Going to have to agree with Asty. The only way to get a good grip on what is and isn't A-OK to talk about in a particular group is just by lurking more. Can't really add too much more to his sentiment, so... yeah.
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  #111    
Old September 23rd, 2011, 04:15 PM
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Some shipping fics are good when done right. I just don't like when they over do it with the "I love you more than anything in the world" thing. Or too much kissy kissy good goo mushy stuff. I mean just because they are a couple doesn't mean they have to kiss every 2 seconds or say "I love you" 5 times in 2 minutes.

I have a story that has Dialga and Palkia as a couple (and I also have one based on JUST them), but I don't have them kiss alot or say "I love you" alot. They do other things to show signs of affection and love for each other, but not overdoing it.
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  #112    
Old September 23rd, 2011, 10:44 PM
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I've got a theory, see like, I've got a theory about shipping fics and the overproliferation of gushy "I love you"s and shows of affection in lieu of plot. If magic is all... Nah I can't do it. Anyway, the point I intended to get to is that people seem to use the medium as a channel for frustrated feelings in their own life; I base this partially on cynical amateur psychoanalysis, and partially on frank self-awareness.

What I mean by this is... They love somebody, or obsess over/think they love somebody, and they desire to say "I love you" or to kiss them, but cannot- Because they are too shy or too far apart or friendzoned. So instead of doing what they feel they cannot, the frustrated young writers will make their characters (which are always self-insert to at least some degree, in the same way that it is impossible to see an advertisement without your opinion being affected one way or another) say it for them, to their love interest. In the condensed form of a story, a five-minute romantic moment they may wish to share with a loved one becomes an hours-long ordeal wherein the characters can't break out of that very boring pattern because the authour can't get it off their mind.

And yeah, romance in a fanfic in 99% of cases where it is not extremely humourous is something that makes me turn and leave. I suppose that is slightly hypocritical, as the only fanfic I've ever written was a rather steamy harlequinesque romance, but then, it was also a work of satire.
  #113    
Old September 23rd, 2011, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Putin View Post
I've got a theory, see like, I've got a theory about shipping fics and the overproliferation of gushy "I love you"s and shows of affection in lieu of plot. If magic is all... Nah I can't do it. Anyway, the point I intended to get to is that people seem to use the medium as a channel for frustrated feelings in their own life; I base this partially on cynical amateur psychoanalysis, and partially on frank self-awareness.
...Or, you know, we could just like the idea of two characters hooking up. :/ I mean, there is such a thing as romance written by aromantic, asexual, or wrong-orientation authors. Most of the best male/male slash fic I've read, for example, was written by completely heterosexual girls. (There were even some good male/male slash fics that were written by gay girls as well, so it's not just about imagining two hot guys naked.) Likewise, yours truly on occasion writes het fic, but I'm openly an aromantic lesbian. I have no desire to live vicariously through my characters, and I have no Freudian desire to shack up with a man. I just happen to like the idea of, for example, Bill and Lanette having an intensely awkward relationship togeher.

Additionally, I'd just like to say for the second time to the general population that if you feel the need to bash shipping fics, please sample a lot of shipping fics. :/ (The same could be said if you wanted to bash any genre's fics. It's just that shipping and romance seem to be the flavor of the month for some reason.) I can't recall the last romance that wasn't on dA or FFNet in which two characters got all mushy and repeated "I love you" all over the place. (Of course, I do recall a lot of romance fic that involved a lot of angst, sexual confusion, and PWP smut situations, so YMMV concerning whether or not any of that would be just as bad.) Sure, the mainstream ships tend to focus a lot on two characters who can't keep their hands to themselves or otherwise fairly cliché plots, but the obscure ships and the ships centered around game pairs, as far as I can recall, don't really capitalize on the "I love you" line.

I'm all for everyone having their own opinions about what makes a fic suck, really, but seriously, please don't bash an entire genre of fic with arguments I can easily debase, plzkthnx.
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  #114    
Old September 23rd, 2011, 11:43 PM
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Sorry, you misunderstood, Valentine. That was my fault for not quoting the post I was replying to, which was Gothitelle's (durr I said Valentine's the first time, can you tell I haven't slept in a few days?). Her complaint was, similarly, about those that in lieu of a plot have the characters saying "I love you" and kissing every five minutes, making for a soporific mess that is more embarrassing to read than the diary of the Loneliest Kid.

Romance in fanfic (or, indeed, in general) I do not like because there is only so far you can go with it without doing something fabulously original (a la Lolita, Frankenstein or Wuthering Heights, for example). Inevitably, it will fall into a pattern of blank meets blank, they fall in love slowly through a series of trials, usually with one loving the other first, leading to chagrin, then they adventure together until finishing in their life-affirming touching moment bluh bluh or their horrible tragedy when one dies or is turned into a newt or something. Romance in general I do not like simply because I do not like love, I like beauty. Love's a really terrible thing and I don't need to read about other people having it when I've got it in oodles like some kind of horrid cancer I was born with.

But, yeah. I think we just had a misunderstanding there. I haven't read the whole thread, just the first two and last page, though I must say (in only the most helpful tone) that from what I see here you do seem a tad quick to look for reasons to take offense. >.> Anyway, tl;dr, I don't think romance is a "bad" genre, I just don't like it, and the kind of sloppy sophomoric romances written by those under the age of twenty five at the least are usually repulsive to me; And most of my post that you responded to was addressed specifically at a small portion of the genre as pointed out by another poster.

Er, sure do love it when my tl;dr's end up being rather long theirselves. Ah well.
  #115    
Old September 23rd, 2011, 11:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Putin View Post
Sorry, you misunderstood, Valentine. That was my fault for not quoting the post I was replying to, which was Valentine's. Her complaint was, similarly, about those that in lieu of a plot have the characters saying "I love you" and kissing every five minutes, making for a soporific mess that is more embarrassing to read than the diary of the Loneliest Kid.
Actually, I understood perfectly. I was saying to the both of you that these kinds of situations only happen in a fraction of all shipping fics and that when they do happen, it's not necessarily because the author wants to live vicariously through their character. If they wanted to do that, you'd be seeing a crappily-written Mary Sue fic instead. If we're talking about canon/canon fics, then that's a different story. The crappier ones usually follow that kind of formula because of a combination of what I'd mentioned earlier (i.e., liking the idea of two characters being together) and liking extremely trite, mushy romance plots for the same reason someone else might like trite comedy plots or trite action plots -- because, well, they just like them. It doesn't really help that the fandom tends to have a bandwagon mentality, so if a person sees, for example, a high school AU do really well, they'll be compelled to copy it just because they want the reviews. It has nothing to do with whether or not they want to act out a romantic situation usually. (Like I said: if they did, they'd do it with a Mary Sue.)

Quote:
Romance in fanfic (or, indeed, in general) I do not like because there is only so far you can go with it without doing something fabulously original (a la Lolita, Frankenstein or Wuthering Heights, for example). Inevitably, it will fall into a pattern of blank meets blank, they fall in love slowly through a series of trials, usually with one loving the other first, leading to chagrin, then they adventure together until finishing in their life-affirming touching moment bluh bluh or their horrible tragedy when one dies or is turned into a newt or something.
...And to that, I'd like to tell you to go read more fanfic. :| Sure, there is a type of plot in which this happens, but not all romance fics work like this. Moreover, not all fics (or literature in general) with romance subtext in them work this way, either. I mean, if you want a good example, there's always Trillian and Arthur Dent. The first Hitchhiker's Guide book sets them up to be lovers (what with the whole "last two people from Earth" thing and all), but it never really pans out purely because the characters are incompatible. Douglas Adams then proceeds to play with the idea of setting up romantic subtext (or in the case of Fenchurch, text), only to do something else at the last possible moment. Fans still take it as romantic subtext (because it is), but it's handled differently than a lot of other romance. Then, on the fanfic front, there's... pretty much everything ever written by Windsong and the other LJ fan authors. *motions to the kink meme* In fact, with those last examples, I think it's safe to say I still don't recall ever seeing a formula like that one in explicitly shippy fics.

Besides, if you refuse to read romance, how exactly can you make a generalization concerning it? I mean, you're basically saying the equivalent of "I don't like dogs because all dogs do nothing but bark all day and pee everywhere." Sure, there's some dogs that do that, but there's a lot of dogs that don't. The only way you'll be able to find out whether or not what you're saying is true is by dealing with a lot of dogs. Here, all you're doing is writing off an entire genre and a genre-within-a-genre because you're generalizing the entire concept based on stereotypes. And yes, now you're referring to romance as a whole, so I still understand what you're saying.

Quote:
that from what I see here you do seem a tad quick to look for reasons to take offense.
Welp. I told Asty I was trying to resist not using this, but it's pretty much my favorite macro in my collection. So...!



There's a distinct difference between taking offense and being horribly amused, Putin. This is me when I'm offended. What you've seen so far in this thread is me having fun pointing out the holes in other people's logic.

I just like being blunt. And I tend to be blunt towards people who I think are making rather silly comments that are easy to debase. Besides, given the nature of this thread to begin with, it's pretty much a given that there's going to be people who will want to have a word or few about your opinions. If you wanted me to jump to Happy Fuzzy Totally In Agreement With You Land, you'd probably be better off going to the sister thread. Or, you know, making a sister thread that wouldn't break the thread necromancy rule.

Don't get me wrong. I'm all for people who have different opinions from me, and if romance just doesn't float your boat, that's fine. However, if you come into a thread generalizing an entire genre (which, yes, your second post still does because you don't make it clear if you don't like romance because of the tiny percentage Gothitelle was referring to or because you think the portions that she isn't referring to aren't much better... although neither assumption, really, is a safe one to make), you can't really be too surprised if someone else replies with, "Uh, yeah, what kind of cannabis are you smoking right now, and where can I get some?"

There are also a thousand different things I could say about the age portion and how irrelevant age is to fanfiction. Or the subject of beauty and the lovely scholars who seem to be taking pages from Romanticist philosophers. Or a thousand of other things from the can o' worms that you seem to have left beside the electric can opener in the break room. But because you seem to be fresh meat around here, I won't pull the usual welcoming banter I tend to give the newbies that amuse me.

I mean, really? *claps a hand on your shoulder* Welcome to the FF&W. Regulars here should've given you a heads up about yours truly already, but it looks like we've been slow on the uptake lately.
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Last edited by JX Valentine; September 24th, 2011 at 12:58 AM.
  #116    
Old September 24th, 2011, 12:38 AM
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Oi, too much there to reply to when I am already as long-winded as I am. If you had understood perfectly, you would have understood that I, at least, was not/am not under the impression that this is a prevalent theme, merely something that turns me off of romance fics...

And again, I dislike romance fanfictions. I dislike the majourity of romance fiction, period. I do not find it entertaining. I find it boring at best and mind-numbing or repulsive at worst, with the rare, very rare, exception to the rule being any good. I di not mean to suggest there is a single canned plot- However, there is a single theme that is never broken: the story of a ROMANTIC FICTION focuses on the ROMANCE. In my opinion, romance should in most cases be an aspect, not the focus, of the story. Yes, there's romantic subtexts or offshoots in various decent narratives (though I would not personally cite HHGTTG, which, while amusing, is hardly fine literature) that defy the general pattern, but there's something key to note here: These aren't romance stories. In the h2g2 series only "So Long and Thanks for All the Fish" was a romance story, and it was, almost unanimously among those I have heard discuss the books, the weakest in the series (I'm obviously not counting "And Another Thing...," which is essentially nothing more than an educated fanfic itself). In a romance story, you don't have the weirdness of Dent and MacMillan, because that only works as a subplot or maybe a thousand-word story.

And your "I'm not taking offense I'm just frank with the truth" view is one that, to be bluntly honest, is overplayed and childish at best, and unless one's intention is trolling (something I am notably virtually impervious to at any rate), it is an utterly futile mode of argument; One might as well say "I don't smash my head into walls, I smash walls with my head." Darling, I can spar with the best of them, and my mastery of my language is likely better than yours as it is having been awake for over sixty hours at a stretch. With some sleep in my head, I am a maestro to the gods. If you want to have a whirl, feel free, but I think I am going to finally get some sleep now, and would obviously prefer to carry it on in PM; No point in starting a flame war, particularly over something so silly as you feeling the unwarranted and disproportionate sting for the sake of a genre you are defending at my attack on the lowest facet of that genre.
  #117    
Old September 24th, 2011, 12:50 AM
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No point in starting a flame war
To be frank it's already seemingly bitter from what I see (what with claims of 'and my mastery of my language is likely better than yours as it is having been awake for over sixty hours at a stretch. With some sleep in my head, I am a maestro to the gods'), as well as straying somewhat off-topic now. So... I'll just say to not boast off one's credentials of words here and whatnot as that doesn't help and carry it over PM if you want as mentioned. Just felt like stepping in to say that is all so uh, carry on elsewhere without fire? Fires are bad.
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  #118    
Old September 24th, 2011, 01:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Putin View Post
I di not mean to suggest there is a single canned plot-
Quote:
Inevitably, it will fall into a pattern of blank meets blank, they fall in love slowly through a series of trials, usually with one loving the other first, leading to chagrin, then they adventure together until finishing in their life-affirming touching moment bluh bluh or their horrible tragedy when one dies or is turned into a newt or something.
...'Kay.

Quote:
However, there is a single theme that is never broken: the story of a ROMANTIC FICTION focuses on the ROMANCE.
Well, yes, but it's not the only element to a romantic fic. Just like a mystery fic, an action fic, and even a comedy fic might have elements of different genres, so does romance fic. A good romance fic manages to have a little something for everyone -- a little bit of action, a little bit of comedy, a little bit of this and that -- to the point where that it's easy to acknowledge that the relationship between two characters would be an important feature of the story, that's not all there is to it. You seem to be implying that a romance can't be anything but a romance, but that's only really true for badly written romance stories.

Quote:
These aren't romance stories.
However, there are romantic subtexts going on within the story, and you did mention that you don't like having romantic relationships even be in your story, so... yeah.

Quote:
And your "I'm not taking offense I'm just frank with the truth"
Actually, I was saying this:



As in, nope. Not even angry, sorry. If I was even annoyed with someone, you wouldn't be able to read half my post thanks to the censor.

Quote:
view is one that, to be bluntly honest, is overplayed and childish at best, and unless one's intention is trolling (something I am notably virtually impervious to at any rate), it is an utterly futile mode of argument; One might as well say "I don't smash my head into walls, I smash walls with my head."
Sorry to say, but you don't seem to be taking into consideration the complexity of people. Like I said (admittedly in an edit), I just enjoy pointing out the holes in other people's logic because it's a game to me. If I was offended, you'd be seeing a lot of swearing going on, and I'd be making more of an effort to insult you directly.

For example, right now, I'm amused that I got this reaction out of you because your blood pressure seems to be spiking a little here. You're not really pointing out where in the thread I seem to be taking personal offense to what's being said; all you're really doing is saying you don't like how I disagree with a lot of what's already been covered. Moreover, all you have to go on is the fact that I decided to be up front and say, "I really think you need to go back and read more of X"; you really can't say for certain from that if I'm offended by your generalization, if I just think generalizing is a rather counterproductive activity, or if I'm just making fun of you. And because you're the first one here to act irrationally (i.e., broke into illogical, emotionally-charged arguments with the "my abilities are better than yours" part), that would probably be considered a win for me according to the aforementioned game.

Side tip, but generally, if you want to show someone that you're impervious to trolling, you'll probably not want to flip out like you just did. Just... y'know. Protip for future reference.

Quote:
Darling, I can spar with the best of them, and my mastery of my language is likely better than yours
*motions to an earlier use of "theirself"* ...'Kay.

Quote:
With some sleep in my head, I am a maestro to the gods.
Oh. Troll. Gotcha. You'll have to forgive me, folks. I've been awake for an obscene number of hours myself, so my own judgment concerning whether or not I'm speaking to the bridge folk is a bit off.

(I do have to ask which one, though. I mean, looking over your language use, my guess would be Bacchus. Hodur too maybe, but I'm not sure if you'd want to be a writer for Hodur.)

Quote:
No point in starting a flame war,
Welp. Considering you tried to patronize me in public and proceeded to call yourself the maestro to the gods, I think it's already past that part. Luckily, I have a very strange sense of humor.

Quote:
you feeling the unwarranted and disproportionate sting for the sake of a genre you are defending at my attack on the lowest facet of that genre.
I don't know. Call me crazy, but it feels like the only person feeling any sort of disproportionate sting is you. I mean, regardless of how I feel about the subject at hand, at least I didn't outright call you childish or regale you with my own credentials or try to convince you that my linguistic abilities are blessed by gods. Unless you were saying all of this to lighten the mood, to which I'd say this:




But if it wasn't, I'd be happy to continue discussing things via PMs, although I'm not sure what else there is to say. I've got a whole boatload of GIFs and macros I've never used before, but on the other hand, the whole point I was trying to make is that it's a bad thing to generalize an entire genre when you're talking about things you don't like in a fic. So that's pretty on-topic in the sense of "that thing you say you don't like doesn't actually happen in a lot of fic at all." I mean, we could discuss which gods gave us our intellectual abilities (My patron was Athena! o/), but I don't think that would be a discussion that would last for more than a few messages.
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Last edited by JX Valentine; September 24th, 2011 at 08:18 AM.
  #119    
Old September 24th, 2011, 03:56 PM
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I'll just say a short piece.

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Originally Posted by Putin View Post
Anyway, the point I intended to get to is that people seem to use the medium as a channel for frustrated feelings in their own life; I base this partially on cynical amateur psychoanalysis, and partially on frank self-awareness.
I base this on being in several fandoms over several years and partially on not fitting what these statements say:

all male/male slash is written by gay men
all female/female slash is written by gay women
all heterosexual fics are written by straight people
all general fics are written by asexuals

None of those statements are true, especially if you lurk more in fandom before making general statements about it. Otherwise, you're just wrong about the people you're supposedly trying to get along with.

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Welcome to the FF&W. Regulars here should've given you a heads up about yours truly already, but it looks like we've been slow on the uptake lately.
I'm working on a thread that should probably be linked in the rules to avoid all this hubbub.

We should all introduce ourselves in it! It'll be fun. We can roast marshmallows, drink wine, and then pelt each other with the marshmallows!
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  #120    
Old September 24th, 2011, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Astinus View Post
None of those statements are true, especially if you lurk more in fandom before making general statements about it. Otherwise, you're just wrong about the people you're supposedly trying to get along with.
Er, well yeah. I mean people that are frustrated in love using the fiction as a medium to express their suppressed feelings being the cause of the "i love you i love you lets kiss okay i love you they walked a few miles i love you" thing that Gothitelle mentioned.
Romantic fic > bad romantic fic > fic with that particular issue > sexually or romantically frustrated writers. Well, the last isn't entirely true, since those with that frustration do not necessarily write bad fic or at least bad fic with that particular issue, but in general that's what I'm trying to say.

Unless I am not understanding your reason for quoting me there.

Also marshmallows sound magnificent.
  #121    
Old September 24th, 2011, 07:13 PM
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Still, not a reason to completely insult readers and writers of a particular genre, which you did in your original post. Especially when you're not even a fan of the genre, so it's not like you can speak from any experience reading it or writing it with any seriousness and you're speaking about it from a position of hating it, so...

Maybe if you didn't do that at the start, we wouldn't be sitting here pointing it out and having this discussion?

OR...maybe I just wanted an on-topic way to have some lulz at your armchair psychology and deep sense of self-awareness. Because that was my actual reasoning for quoting that part of your post.
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  #122    
Old September 24th, 2011, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Astinus View Post
OR...maybe I just wanted an on-topic way to have some lulz at your armchair psychology and deep sense of self-awareness. Because that was my actual reasoning for quoting that part of your post.
I meant the "desire to say 'I love you' sneaking into everything" aspect.

Also, in my original post here I was criticizing the writers that do that thing. The "99% of non-satirical romance makes me turn and leave" thing is subjective; I did not say "this genre sucks." I just don't like it. It was only when coaxed that I even went into WHY I don't like it. >.>

But here, I feel like a broken record. If it still somehow seems I was saying the entire romance genre is crappy crap with no value to anyone ever, I apologize and amend my statements now by saying it is something that makes ME turn and leave, at least if it is the central point/overprolific, because I do not like it. Additionally, relying on repeating the same formulaic sentence ("X told Y "I love you" and they kissed," and variations thereof) (like a broken record :p) IS a crappy crap technique that cements this opinion where it is present. Crap.
  #123    
Old September 25th, 2011, 03:57 AM
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I really don't like reading about stories that have scenes which need to be researched by the author to give a realistic presentation, and aren't. People should thoroughly research all they are going to put into their stories so it gives maximum authenticity.

I had to study carbon monoxide for chapters of my fanfiction, and I believe it paid off. It wasn't incredibly studious to do so, but it was a lot better than just winging it.

I also dislike when people don't have proper grammar and punctuation. I don't mind mistakes - everyone is human, and I have a fair few in everything I write, but when people condense words like 'you' and 'are' to things like 'u' and 'r' really infuriates me. I was writing on another forum and I posted a story - it was soon followed by a herd of stories, each with four sentence chapters with absolutely no prior thought, punctuation, grammar, or English.

...there, I think my rant is over. I think I have done most of those things, too.
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  #124    
Old September 25th, 2011, 03:57 AM
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  #125    
Old November 24th, 2011, 07:44 PM
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May as well revive this:

I dislike script fics since I like novelizations better. I was guilty of this back then so I guess it's a newbie thing.

I also hate it when the narration has Author Notes in them. It disrupts the flow of the story and very off-putting for me.
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