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  #76    
Old December 22nd, 2011 (03:18 PM).
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I don't have any idea, but I think reincarnation is an interesting theory. What if the light at the end of the tunnel when we die is really the light out of our new mother's..uh.. woman thing.
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Old December 22nd, 2011 (03:54 PM).
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I've never been a believer of going to heaven/purgatory/hell etc when you die, it just doesn't make sense to me. Plus, I don't like the idea of living forever after my physical body has passed on. The idea of immortality scares me. I've always preferred either dying and thats it, you're done, bada bing bada boom or reincarnation. I know reincarnation is an endless cycle and that makes you 'immortal' in a way, but it's comforting to me that I'm not aware that I have been reincarnated. At least that's what I have been lead to believe? Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old December 23rd, 2011 (01:36 AM).
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Quote originally posted by WeightyWillBill:
I don't have any idea, but I think reincarnation is an interesting theory. What if the light at the end of the tunnel when we die is really the light out of our new mother's..uh.. woman thing.
And every time we're revived at the last second, a baby dies.

Life just seems too special for it to just all disappear when we die. But that's still what I think happens. Hah.
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Old December 25th, 2011 (04:14 PM).
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Old January 3rd, 2012 (02:20 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Harlequin:
I've never been a believer of going to heaven/purgatory/hell etc when you die, it just doesn't make sense to me. Plus, I don't like the idea of living forever after my physical body has passed on. The idea of immortality scares me. I've always preferred either dying and thats it, you're done, bada bing bada boom or reincarnation. I know reincarnation is an endless cycle and that makes you 'immortal' in a way, but it's comforting to me that I'm not aware that I have been reincarnated. At least that's what I have been lead to believe? Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Speaking of immortality then, what are your thoughts on pseudo immortality? Let's take an example to clarify. Overlord Drakow has taken over the world, riding on the back of his Hydreigon to victory like a true Dark lord. The embodiment of the supreme ruler is sculptured and his image is also painted on massive canvases. His reign of terror is written down in the history books to be preserved throughout the ages. Although Drakow will eventually die one way or another, his impact on the world will never be forgotten. The concept is pretty much the same for any famous person. If the other extreme is considered, it could be argued that as long as one person remembers someone who has died, they will "live on in their memory". In essence it's a form of immortality. Even if someone dies and say that's it for them - no rebirth or going to Heaven / Hell - what would your stance be on the claim that they will still live on in the memories of the people who closely interacted with the deceased being?
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  #81    
Old January 8th, 2012 (01:17 PM). Edited January 8th, 2012 by Ayutac.
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Funny thing I can actually be more objective in a thread about after life than in a thread about the probition of alcohol. Let's get to it!

Quote originally posted by Yoshikkko:
I know that every religion has their own view on what there is after death, but I'm not sure if that what we believe in based on our religion, is what is gonna happen (theoretically speaking of course). What I mean is that I don't think that someone who for example is hinduistic, would be more likely to re-incarnate than someone who is christian, because death is equal, and I don't believe that it's based on what we believe during our lives. So also, whether we believe in Jesus or not, I think all that isn't relevant eventually.
Sad, but not true. There are beliefs that doesn't depend on the believer (such as Hinduism) and there are these who does. All Abrahamic religions belongs to the latter.

Quote originally posted by Palladium:
Sorry, but it isn't that simple, you also need to live in as less sins as possible, according to the Bible, and therefore the church.
Please don't mix Bible and church together so carelessly. If you think of yourself as a Christian for a moment, you have the bible as your bas. But the church was still invented by mere humans. Nothing in the bible says anything about churches as such.

Quote originally posted by Xulek:
unless they're something along the lines of a satanist whom believe that hell's more desirable than heaven to them oddly enough.
For the record, that's not what real satanists believe in. They believe there's neither heaven nor hell, so you are free to do anything you want to. (But they kinda despise anyone who believes in god, so you could say they despise a god himself.) But you have to accept anything you do could happen to you as well, so e.g. if you murder someone you could die very soon too. It has a flair of anarchy and I like that.
The satanic church certainly do some mass from time to time, but they also provide contacts between believers. So, if you look for a witch they will lead you to one. But that witch doesn't have to cooperative at all, you're on your own to convince her doing whatever you want from her (still she can't do everything, e.g. she can't make you a witch). So to say, there is no sense of community.
I like satanism for the responsibility everyone has for himself/herself, but don't like it's "we are all damned anyway" attitude.

Quote originally posted by Vendak:
What's good and evil is subjective, not objective; so I can't believe in any form of heaven or hell either.
If you imply there is an almighty god, then he is the ruler and the one who defines good and evil, as he is the supremum and so the objective itself. If you, aware of his existence, don't think of him as objective, then you are subjective by definition. Because if this almighty god wouldn't be the measurement for objectiveness, what else should it be?
Actually, if god would reveal himself ("him" as in "the Lord", I'm not implying anything), I think this is what most people would think :D

Quote originally posted by Vendak:
The afterlife is entirely faith, born out of fear and hope; no facts at all. It's just not logical to try and think there is anything after death.
I have to disgree with you right there. It IS logical too believe in an afterlife.

Proof: Imply you believe in an afterlife and there isn't one. Well, you will never knew and therefore you can live relieved. Even if you were wrong by objective standards, you always "knew" you were right, so in the end, you win. That is also in accordance in case there is an afterlive and you wouldn't notice (such as reincarnations without memories).
If there's afterlife you can experience and it matches your belief, you win.
If there's afterlife you can experience and it really doesn't match your belief, as in you go to hell and burn for all eternity, you finally loose.
But you loose as well if you don't belief anything at all, because hell or similiar isn't supposed to be fun.
If there's no afterlife (you can experience) and you don't believe in any, then you just die. But even if you were right by objective standarts, you will never now. And maybe some day in your live really, really terrible things will happen to your kids and they die afterwards (as teenagers or younger, for the sake of this szenario). So as an atheist, you just believe they were painful unlucky and do exist no more. That's sad. … After all, I wouldn't call the atheist-and-no-afterlife a total loose situation, but it is way more negative.
As shown, if you believe in an afterlife, you gain more without loosing anything that could even scratch the win. Which such a result given, I can only call the decision a logical one.
Disproof me ;)

Quote originally posted by Shining Raichu:
Right, but if you're thinking outside of yourself, are you comfortable with the image of others meeting their torturous fates in Hell, while you get to go to Heaven?
I agree that's a difficult side. As FreakyLocz14 said, everyone is free to believe want he/she wants and has to take responsibility for it, even if she said it in an inappropriate way. From a Christ's or Muslim's point of view (and maybe some others too) that's just unavoidable. Because they know they can't convert everybody. Personally, for me it was the greatest obstacle hindering me converting to the Islam, because it would mean my parents would end in hell, as they were back then (and are still now, sadly). But after some time, I accepted it. Inb4 I'm a terrorist. I can't force them to their luck, just like I can't force any of you. What remains is hope.
But I have to say, on the other side, hell-burning for others can be a good thing for yourself as believer. From an Atheistic point of view it was probably "invented" to give the believers the security wrong-doers and criminals won't simply get away for not doing as (a) god says. Wouldn't you feel good thinking of the murderers of your parents burning in hell? Wouldn't you feel very good thinking of the rapist of your kids burning in hell? Well, neither my parents got murdered nor I ever had children to be raped, but I believe it would be some kind of relieve. On a personal note again, I remember one time last year someone REALLY made me angry (and I'm not soo easy to anger) and I was mad at him and all, but then I just thought "you'll probably end in hell" and I felt relieved, the anger almost completely vanished. So, I think the "burn-in-hell" consequence is actually good for a peaceful behavior: You don't really need to punish somebody (violently) because god will give him the ultimate punishment. Works for me :)
(And yes I know there are these idiotic religious extremists, in the dark age and now. If you ask yourself for a moment you will probably agree these people got something (or almost everything) entirely wrong, so please don't use these as an argument against my hell-makes-you-peaceful thesis.)

By the last quote answered, I think my personal believes of afterlive are covered in general. As the Koran stated, it will be great ;P
But there are some things I would like there to have which aren't mentioned so far or exactly. I would like to be freed of my (bad) desires – you could summon these up as the characteristics of the seven death sins – and I should be able to get anything I want (due to be free of bad desires, what about a cup of warm chocolate and a conforming house to live in?), beige would be a nice color for the place in general, I would like to be still able to watch the living world and a detailed book of my life would be nice (because I forget very much. Guess what, I just edited this parenthesis thought because I forgot it before). (Besides the last part, that's how I adopted Afterlife in my stories, still being not the final afterlife after all, so I don't say any religion would be wrong.) But if I wouldn't get all that I would still be happy.

By the way, the seven blunders of the world from Ghandi seem worth to be read for a second :D
Quote originally posted by Ghandi:
The seven blunders are:
Wealth without work.
Pleasure without conscience.
Knowledge without character.
Commerce without morality.
Science without humanity.
Worship without sacrifice.
Politics without principle.
Another thing are the Deja Vus. I have the theory (but obviously don't believe it) that your whole life is already determinated and "written" into your brain. When you are dreaming, you may catch a glimpse of it (known as Deja Vu) and remember it later when you experience the moment. That said, our life itself has to have some purpose for a greater thing and so there wouldn't be a point in afterlife anyway if you already did your part for the greater thing. Well, maybe you will be revived in some form to witness it.
On a side note, I define destiny by that what you are doing. So writing these words now is my destiny, as it is your's to read them and probably doubt my theory. If you think life has no meaning if there's such a destiny, thinking that is your destiny too. You can't escape it as you can't escape death. And it's all written into your brain, you're just unable to get the key. (And that would be some kind of mind f*ck since you would read how you read how you read how you read *brain melting* Well, probably that's why everyone who unlocked his destiny chamber is dead by now. Oh, and of course that was his destiny, derp.)
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Old January 8th, 2012 (01:31 PM).
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This is a very opinionated subject. You only know once you die. I do hope for reincarnation of some sort, though.
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  #83    
Old January 9th, 2012 (07:08 PM).
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it's a very odd subject for me. i don't necessarily believe in god or heaven or hell or the devil. i just believe that there is a kind of after life we go to, which is our own paradise that we always dreamed of. i don't believe that other people join you there unless you want them there.

as for the people who are evil or who have done evil things, i believe they get a second chance and are reincarnated into an animal. as an animal, they are willing to experience life in a different way and may embrace it more.

that's just my theory. i don't think anybody else has come up with it before xD.
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Old January 10th, 2012 (05:16 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Vendak:
What's good and evil is subjective, not objective
Yeah, the majority of those who study moral philosophy would disagree with you, myself included. While some of us may disagree about how to define good and evil, most of us agree there is some sort of base measure by which we can associate something with either good or evil. If it's "all subjective," the words "good" and "evil" become meaningless.
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Old January 10th, 2012 (06:50 AM).
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Quote originally posted by twocows:
Yeah, the majority of those who study moral philosophy would disagree with you, myself included. While some of us may disagree about how to define good and evil, most of us agree there is some sort of base measure by which we can associate something with either good or evil. If it's "all subjective," the words "good" and "evil" become meaningless.
I kind of agree, but I think only to a certain extent yeah, it can even depend on culture because morals are different everywhere.
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Old January 10th, 2012 (11:43 AM).
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I still believe that once we died we go to heaven. However, I don't believe we stay there. I believe in reincarnation as a reward, and a new start to do over your sins. I believe only people who kill without regret go to hell. Meh, my beliefs are varied.
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Old January 10th, 2012 (03:28 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Yoshikkko:
I kind of agree, but I think only to a certain extent yeah, it can even depend on culture because morals are different everywhere.
No, there are such things as objective morals that span across cultures, religions and civilisations. For instance, in pretty much every religion and civilisation, "the Golden Rule" has appeared (do unto others as you would have them do unto you). However, that is a bit of a weak example, as it being the majority doesn't mean that it's 100% objective.

I think some good examples of morals which are natural are those which are adaptive, that help us to survive and to pass on our genetic material. For men, it is morals such as loyalty, independence, aggression and courage that help us do that. This behaviour has been passed down from our ancestors to us, because they had such morals, they were able to reproduce.

Of course, there are all different types of morals, so what I've stated above is just part of one type.

I need to sleep, this is ridiculous.
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Old January 10th, 2012 (03:53 PM).
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Quote originally posted by twocows:
Yeah, the majority of those who study moral philosophy would disagree with you, myself included. While some of us may disagree about how to define good and evil, most of us agree there is some sort of base measure by which we can associate something with either good or evil. If it's "all subjective," the words "good" and "evil" become meaningless.
I study philosophy as well yeah.

Everything in society is subjective, and morals are totally a social construct. We were not given a natural instinct to base our morals upon. They've merely been established across the centuries humans have existed. "Value the life of others" a common one, most people agree it is morally correct to value life. But how long has murder been condemned universally by society? Not that long. As little as 70 years ago, it was accepted by much of the population in the western world that murder was okay in certain situations. Even today, it is acceptable; in war, it is perfectly fine to murder somebody, yet very little people claim that soldiers lack morals, or that a soldier is evil.

The words good and evil are meaningless. They are simple terms used to give simple descriptions to simple actions.
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Old January 10th, 2012 (04:51 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Drakow:


Speaking of immortality then, what are your thoughts on pseudo immortality? Let's take an example to clarify. Overlord Drakow has taken over the world, riding on the back of his Hydreigon to victory like a true Dark lord. The embodiment of the supreme ruler is sculptured and his image is also painted on massive canvases. His reign of terror is written down in the history books to be preserved throughout the ages. Although Drakow will eventually die one way or another, his impact on the world will never be forgotten. The concept is pretty much the same for any famous person. If the other extreme is considered, it could be argued that as long as one person remembers someone who has died, they will "live on in their memory". In essence it's a form of immortality. Even if someone dies and say that's it for them - no rebirth or going to Heaven / Hell - what would your stance be on the claim that they will still live on in the memories of the people who closely interacted with the deceased being?
Sorry, I forgot I posted in this, lol.
Of course it's a form of immortality. It may not be a physical form of immortality, where you, 'Overlord Drakow', are living, breathing and conscious of your existence (well, you don't technically 'exist', at this point you're a skeleton or adamantium or whatever you are made out of) but you have been made immortal through your actions. To address your question, though: what would your stance be on the claim that they will still live on in the memories of the people who closely interacted with the deceased being?
Well, immortality would mean that you would live forever, whether it be a physical form or in the form of a memory, as you stated. As time goes by, the people who were with you in your lifetime will die and their children will die and so forth. Assuming your explots and teachings were passed down through the generations, it will be like a game of chinese whispers. The solid objects your teachings were written on will eventually degrade and the stories about you that were told by word of mouth will eventually change or stop completely. But, the way I see it is, as long as someone you put in place is still going around, no matter what form it may be in, you are technically 'immortal.'
Does that answer your question, Overlord Drakow?
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Old January 13th, 2012 (10:41 PM).
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It's a shame we don't faint like Pokemon so we wouldn't die lol

Well, I am Catholic, which means I believe in heaven, hell, purgatory, etc, etc.
So I'm not really afraid to die or anything but I'll be sad to know that I will die without leaving any mark whatsoever here one Earth.
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Old January 14th, 2012 (04:31 AM).
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I would love to belive we relive our lives, but i really think we just perish, we enter an eternal slumber.
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Old January 14th, 2012 (08:00 AM).
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Old January 15th, 2012 (04:26 PM).
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I don't think anything happens at all. I think you are gone...but not necessarily forgotten. I suppose that it bothers me that I believe that, but it's logical. Why would I go to some magical place afterwards. I don't believe in religion, thus I don't believe in heaven. If something awesome happens, so be it, but for now, I think nothing happens.
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Old January 16th, 2012 (01:28 AM).
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As an atheist, I think that when we die, that's it. There's no such thing as an afterlife, reincarnation, etc. You either rot in your coffin or get charred and placed in an urn.
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Old January 16th, 2012 (02:08 AM).
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Old January 16th, 2012 (06:48 AM).
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When we die, our brain functions cease and our bodies shall be returned to the universe, whether in the form of ashes, or our flesh in coffins, at the bottom of the ocean, under a tree, wherever it might be. It will be returned, just like the future generations will eventually be returned, as the Earth itself will be returned to the universe in a form of energy once the sun consumes it.

As for our consciousness? Oblivion. However, I like the idea of there being some sort of paradise or reincarnation, but I ain't getting my hopes up.
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Old January 16th, 2012 (07:34 AM).
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when i was little, i used to think the same as someone posted above: if there is no scientific proof of what happens after death, and all religions have their own idea of the afterlife and no religion is superior to others.. i thought then that that must mean that whatever you believe in, that is what will happen to you.
at the time, that thought scared me though. my parents aren't religious, so i'm not, either. so i don't believe in heaven, nor hell, nor purgatory, nor reincarnation, nor an Underworld of some sort. so then what will happen to me? i didn't want to disappear into nothingness, after all.

later on.. i guess i just started caring less. i now really do believe that when we die, our bodies decay, and as our brain function stops, so does our consciousness cease to exist.

in high school, we read the old greek text of Socrates' death. if i remember correctly, Socrates describes death once as an endless, dreamless sleep, and thus not as a particularly bad thing. if i had a night like that, i'm usually well-rested even though it felt like it it was a short night.
i guess if it 'feels' like that when you die, i wouldn't mind being 'asleep' like that forever.

whoops, sorry.. in the end it really became a huge ramble :x
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Old January 18th, 2012 (11:34 AM).
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Quote originally posted by an illegible mess.:
it's a very odd subject for me. i don't necessarily believe in god or heaven or hell or the devil. i just believe that there is a kind of after life we go to, which is our own paradise that we always dreamed of. i don't believe that other people join you there unless you want them there.

as for the people who are evil or who have done evil things, i believe they get a second chance and are reincarnated into an animal. as an animal, they are willing to experience life in a different way and may embrace it more.

that's just my theory. i don't think anybody else has come up with it before xD.
How does the intelligence of animals factor into your theory? For example, animals can't really tell the difference between right and wrong in a reasoning way the way we can. They seem to know things are wrong in our house, but usually that's just because they know they've gotten punished for something in the past or something similar. How would an animal be able to 'embrace life' in that way? Do you believe they retain their human memories?

Quote originally posted by dragon456:
It's a shame we don't faint like Pokemon so we wouldn't die lol

Well, I am Catholic, which means I believe in heaven, hell, purgatory, etc, etc.
So I'm not really afraid to die or anything but I'll be sad to know that I will die without leaving any mark whatsoever here one Earth.
Are you Catholic because you believe in these things, or do you believe in them because you're Catholic?
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Old January 18th, 2012 (02:15 PM).
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Quote originally posted by -Lapras-:
Valhalla is the simple answer, see you all there young warriors.
c ya thar!

Quote originally posted by OriginGiratina:
When we die, someone says, we go away from our body as a soul, we go in a strange place that we see what we've done those many years from our life and then our soul goes into another body, known as afterlife. It sounds very creepy. Some people may remember situations that they didn't attend...
i hope its true... i hope its true

Quote originally posted by PhantomX0990:
That or we rise in a zombie apocalypse.
not possable, a virus is needed fer it 2 happen aswell as a living host

Quote originally posted by WeightyWillBill:
I don't have any idea, but I think reincarnation is an interesting theory. What if the light at the end of the tunnel when we die is really the light out of our new mother's..uh.. woman thing.
good point

Quote originally posted by Degenerate:
Back to the source and get recycled in one form or another.
liek a computer program getting parts erased... or an animation resetting

anyway, i belive we r all 1 person in diffrent bodies, its called "an egg"
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Old January 18th, 2012 (02:59 PM).
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#326
Grumpig
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Manchester
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,838
I don't really know what I believe, lol. On one hand I have some beliefs that God exists, but I don't follow the idea of heaven and hell. On the other I don't really believe (or want to believe; it's the same outcome lol) that there's nothing at all. Maybe some part of us (I don't know if it'd be called a soul) comes back in some other life, but without knowing it? So right now you could have had a load of previous lives that you didn't know about. That's what I'm most comfortable believing.

...but since you have no recollection of it, you might as well as have just died and that's the end of it lmao.
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