The Incredibly Wandering Thread V3

[Ooka]

Well, a team with Pokemon that have nothing but Toxic Spikes, Spikes, Stealth Rock, and assist users (With maybe one sweeper) has been played around with before. I've seen it on the server a couple times. But yeah, other than that, yeah, they suck.

[Nashton]

@Forever.
I did its fun to use. i manly used it clefable as a defensive helping hand support on a doubles.
i wanted a move that was unpredictable and i fought a lot of people that saw return coming and would switch into a ghost or normal resistance :/

so yeah i used metronome competitively.
maybe we should do a doubles and ill show you :D

[Netto Azure]

What if I had a whole team of Imposter Ditto for PO, how would that work out? :3

[Forever]

Meet the species clause, Netto. :) BUT currently unreleased, sooo.

Also pfft, I'm still not a fan of those types of attacks. XD

[miltankRancher]

Imposter is like an automatic transform right? at first, I though Ditto would be OU since practically everything counters itself.

[PlatinumDude]

Originally Posted by miltankRancher

Imposter is like an automatic transform right? at first, I though Ditto would be OU since practically everything counters itself.

Yeah, Imposter is an auto-Transform upon entering battle. In the Dream World tiers, people would give Ditto Choice Scarf so that it could outspeed the Pokemon that it copies.

[Karpman]

Originally Posted by miltankRancher

Imposter is like an automatic transform right? at first, I though Ditto would be OU since practically everything counters itself.

It will most likely be OU, due to its ability to completely end an opponent's sweep and use their boosts to sweep itself, although the fact that Ditto is such a potent counters to the majority of set up sweepers and poses an immense threat to most offensive plastyles could influence the council to consider voting it Uber.

[Ooka]

Well, Reuniclus ruined highly defensive styles but everyone went against voting it Uber, I see the same happening with Ditto, it'll cause lots of problems for hyper offense, but in the end ruining a playstyle won't be enough to make it uber.

[Karpman]

Originally Posted by Ooka

Well, Reuniclus ruined highly defensive styles but everyone went against voting it Uber, I see the same happening with Ditto, it'll cause lots of problems for hyper offense, but in the end ruining a playstyle won't be enough to make it uber.

Reuniclus is a burden to consider when teambuilding, but it is beaten by Choice Band Tyranitar, Jirachi and a tandem of Blissey/Latias and Perish Song Celebi, so it's not like stall is completely defenseless. I do think Ditto also has the dimension that it's very easy to play with, and you could do something like get up Spikes while the opponent boosts to +6, before sending out Ditto and thrashing their team, whereas Reuniclus required smart play to get around its counters so that it can sweep. Honestly, I think this generation is full of powerful threats that wouldn't stand a chance in Generation 4, but Ditto may cross the line in the minds of some, due to its nature to get the opponent's boosts to completely backfire on them, and then put together an easy sweep. It just doesn't have a "pro-metagame" feel to it.

[Ooka]

Well, 4th gen one thing I loved to play was full stall. This gen Reuniclus came, and literally nothing in full stall beats it. Stall Celebi can't even Leech Seed, and Perish Song doesn't solve the problem, just gets rid of it for a little while, Jirachi loses to Flame Orb variants, the only thing Latios can do is Trick, but isn't built for stall anyways. So basically (As it has been said on Smogon plenty of times), I just have to quit playing full stall, or prepare to lose to CM Reuniclus. So now I have to throw in Ttar or Scizor where I need a cleric or phazer. So really, I just see Ditto as the same thing, people will just have to quit playing hyper offense or use Sub on their setup sweepers. Not like I want it to happen, but I didn't want to lose full stall either. xD

[lunis]

I did not know impostor ditto took stat changes as well. Now I like it even more.
Though everyone has made valid points, I don't see him going uber. I guess only time will tell.that, and how many people get butt hurt by ditto.
would cofagrigus' mummy make ditto switch back to ditto?

[Karpman]

Originally Posted by lunis

I did not know impostor ditto took stat changes as well. Now I like it even more.
Though everyone has made valid points, I don't see him going uber. I guess only time will tell.that, and how many people get butt hurt by ditto.
would cofagrigus' mummy make ditto switch back to ditto?

It wouldn't; it would just change Ditto's ability to Mummy. The ability imposter essentially activates Transform on the switch, so Mummy wouldn't deactivate what has already happened.

Originally Posted by Ooka

Well, 4th gen one thing I loved to play was full stall. This gen Reuniclus came, and literally nothing in full stall beats it. Stall Celebi can't even Leech Seed, and Perish Song doesn't solve the problem, just gets rid of it for a little while, Jirachi loses to Flame Orb variants, the only thing Latios can do is Trick, but isn't built for stall anyways. So basically (As it has been said on Smogon plenty of times), I just have to quit playing full stall, or prepare to lose to CM Reuniclus. So now I have to throw in Ttar or Scizor where I need a cleric or phazer. So really, I just see Ditto as the same thing, people will just have to quit playing hyper offense or use Sub on their setup sweepers. Not like I want it to happen, but I didn't want to lose full stall either. xD

Then you're truly just limiting yourself. Choice Band Tyranitar has an excellent niche in full stall and nets a clean OHKO on Reuniclus 100% of the time, while Blissey beats non-psyshock Trick Room Reuniclus. Saying Jirachi loses to Flame Orb Reuniclus shouldn't phase you that much, considering that set is extremely rare, and Reuniclus's non-Calm Mind sets are most likely beaten by another Pokemon on your stall team, such as Blissey. Gliscor is another backup option for beating Reuniclus that lack Psychic and is immune to Flame Orb, assuming your're running Defensive Poison Heal. While Stall has taken a major hit this generation, this isn't to say it's completely unplayable, Reuniclus is just another threat to counter.

[Ooka]

Unfortunately running CB Tyranitar makes it not full stall, for example, a team I've wanted consisted of Tyranitar (Not the CB variant, the SR, Fire Blast one) / Jellicent / Ferrothorn / Tentacool / Chansey / Gliscor. To beat Reuniclus I would have to turn TTar to CB, run Rocks on Chansey then lose my cleric. Otherwise the whole team is easily swept by Reuniclus, but not much else.

I'm not really saying it's unbeatable, just saying neither is Ditto, it's just going to do the same thing to offense as Reuniclus did to stall.

[Forever]

I kinda use Celebi against Reuniclus, lol. Basically just get up one NP and Giga Drain 2HKO's (iirc), usually they go with CM rather than straight out attacking so I'm safe.. (except shadow ball but idk I think Celebi might be able to take it anyway, since Ice Beam does only like 55% to it :x). BUT anyone who uses TR Reuniclus I'm dead against. Like, TR is one of my greatest enemies. It's easy for stall to counter but not offensive. :x

Also last night I kinda thought about how Ditto could not be THAT bad but really, it's going to suck, and I really do not want to resort to stall to be able to take it because I hate stall and love offensive :(

[Vrai]

Stall isn't the bane of all offensive teams, Nica. You just have to learn how to break it. :(

Also TR Reuniclus is very good against offensive teams, yes. But you have lots of options like Jirachi, Scizor, whatever. If you're having trouble against stuff and can't figure out how to break it that just means you have to try something new!

Originally Posted by Ooka

Unfortunately running CB Tyranitar makes it not full stall, for example, a team I've wanted consisted of Tyranitar (Not the CB variant, the SR, Fire Blast one) / Jellicent / Ferrothorn / Tentacool / Chansey / Gliscor. To beat Reuniclus I would have to turn TTar to CB, run Rocks on Chansey then lose my cleric. Otherwise the whole team is easily swept by Reuniclus, but not much else.

I'm not really saying it's unbeatable, just saying neither is Ditto, it's just going to do the same thing to offense as Reuniclus did to stall.

...no, you're using arbitrary terms to make yourself believe that a type of team is inept. Yes, clearly your definition of "full stall" is unable to beat Reuniclus because you refuse to allow it to run things like CB Tyranitar that beat Reuniclus. Why can't stall run CB Tar? It's a team style that's adapting to the metagame, really. You have to adapt to deal with threats. The game is cool like that. Also special mix TTar is awful.

[Ooka]

I think you're just missing the definition of full stall. Full stall means using an entire team full of Pokemon that stall (Unless I'm missing the definition of "Full"). Full stall means using 6 stall oriented Pokemon, as far as I know. I run 6 Pokemon that run stall sets, which makes me incapable of beating Reuiniclus. If "full" stall means running things in the team that aren't stall, them my bad. I've run CBTar and it takes care of the problem, but I don't see it as full stall, it seems closer to semi stall to me. But eh, I've moved on to defensive regardless.

[Vrai]

Originally Posted by Ooka

I think you're just missing the definition of full stall. Full stall means using an entire team full of Pokemon that stall (Unless I'm missing the definition of "Full"). Full stall means using 6 stall oriented Pokemon, as far as I know. I run 6 Pokemon that run stall sets, which makes me incapable of beating Reuiniclus. If "full" stall means running things in the team that aren't stall, them my bad. I've run CBTar and it takes care of the problem, but I don't see it as full stall, it seems closer to semi stall to me. But eh, I've moved on to defensive regardless.

I don't understand why these half-definitions mean so much. There are offensive teams and defensive teams (stall) and really I think that most of them (semistall, heavy offense) are bull anyway. I guess if you're stuck on limiting your teambuilding to "full stall" and following definitions then you simply won't be successful. But sure, moving on.

[Forever]

I kinda don't really consider defensive as stall, kiiinda. Like Latios - defensive use, but not stall. Bronzong (I think?) defensive but not stall, etc.

Stall is like at least 4 dedicated to stalling imo. I just hate "protect" and "toxic" about stall, positive thing is that steels can technically ruin that! :3 I kinda group offensive/heavy offense as the same too, since while they're technically different, just easy calling it offensive, lol.

WHY CAN'T WE HAVE THESE DISCUSSIONS IN THE CHAT THREAD AND ONLY HERE making others feel uncomfortable. :x

[Toujours]

So here's something that opens it up to the people that aren't "omg competitive so srs" (:P): Is your favorite Pokemon good competitively? Did you pick that one for its battling abilities whatsoever?

is good competitively I think but I didn't choose it as a favorite because of that, it just happened to work out quite nicely. :3

[Vrai]

Originally Posted by Forever

I kinda don't really consider defensive as stall, kiiinda. Like Latios - defensive use, but not stall. Bronzong (I think?) defensive but not stall, etc.

Stall is like at least 4 dedicated to stalling imo. I just hate "protect" and "toxic" about stall, positive thing is that steels can technically ruin that! :3 I kinda group offensive/heavy offense as the same too, since while they're technically different, just easy calling it offensive, lol.

WHY CAN'T WE HAVE THESE DISCUSSIONS IN THE CHAT THREAD AND ONLY HERE making others feel uncomfortable. :x

It all is just the way you describe your teams, lol. I just don't like the restricting definitions people give teams and then try to force them to fit a mold - like what Ooka said, he didn't want to use CB Tar because he felt it wouldn't fit "full stall". Also stall is a team type, not a Pokemon descriptor, imo. I don't think it's proper to call something like Chansey stall anyway.

You can run all sorts of things that like Toxic anyway, Nica. Gliscor likes it, Guts users like it, Steels and Poison-types dgaf...

edit: okay fine tooj :|

clearly i like scizor. it is very good competitively but that's not why i like it. i like it because it's ravishing. and sexy. and shiny. but mostly because it's red. and flawless.

[PlatinumDude]

Originally Posted by Toujours

So here's something that opens it up to the people that aren't "omg competitive so srs" (): Is your favorite Pokemon good competitively? Did you pick that one for its battling abilities whatsoever?

is good competitively I think but I didn't choose it as a favorite because of that, it just happened to work out quite nicely. :3

Gallade is my absolute favorite Pokemon, but I think it's rather decent competitively, since it has a wide offensive movepool and high Attack. I would have liked it if they gave it a bit more Speed, though, since 80 Speed doesn't really cut it.

Excadrill, my second favorite, does really well, up to the point where it became usable in Ubers before finally becoming an Uber itself. Sand Rush + 135 Attack usually equals a near perfect sweep. Those qualities and a really neat design are what make me like it.

[Forever]

Originally Posted by Vrai

It all is just the way you describe your teams, lol. I just don't like the restricting definitions people give teams and then try to force them to fit a mold - like what Ooka said, he didn't want to use CB Tar because he felt it wouldn't fit "full stall". Also stall is a team type, not a Pokemon descriptor, imo. I don't think it's proper to call something like Chansey stall anyway.

You can run all sorts of things that like Toxic anyway, Nica. Gliscor likes it, Guts users like it, Steels and Poison-types dgaf...

Well out of all of them I only really run steels (except Gliscor but I use sand veil because acrobatics and yeah it has taunt anyway so I don't really need to worry about toxic) so yeah. :x Stall technically is an issue to my -main- team, lol.

Originally Posted by Toujours

So here's something that opens it up to the people that aren't "omg competitive so srs" (:P): Is your favorite Pokemon good competitively? Did you pick that one for its battling abilities whatsoever?

is good competitively I think but I didn't choose it as a favorite because of that, it just happened to work out quite nicely. :3

Herdier... kinda sucks. :( And other than that I don't really have any other favourites that I didn't get from battling, so yeah, lol. :x

[flubbateios]

Ditto w/ Impostor is kinda stupid, I have to say, SHUCKLE w/ Impostor would be awesome! Wall+super fast sweeper,(eg. Infernape or something)+Rotation Battle= A likely WIN

[PlatinumDude]

Originally Posted by flubbateios

Ditto w/ Impostor is kinda stupid, I have to say, SHUCKLE w/ Impostor would be awesome! Wall+super fast sweeper,(eg. Infernape or something)+Rotation Battle= A likely WIN

Ditto was given Imposter as a DW ability for a reason: so that it won't waste a turn using the Transform move (in most cases, Ditto will have to take a hit before it uses Transform). Also, if Shuckle were to have that ability, then its stats, bar HP would be the same as its opponent's, defenses included (its high defenses would be wasted if it were to turn into something as defensively weak as Infernape).

[Zeffy]

Originally Posted by Toujours

So here's something that opens it up to the people that aren't "omg competitive so srs" (:P): Is your favorite Pokemon good competitively? Did you pick that one for its battling abilities whatsoever?

is good competitively I think but I didn't choose it as a favorite because of that, it just happened to work out quite nicely. :3

Cofagrigus is a viable Pokemon to use in competitive play. Smogon branded it as the "epitome of a defensive spinblocker" or something like that. I have tried to use it, a lot of times really. Cofa does the trick. :3