What came first: Arceus or Mew?

[Toujours]

Why do we have reason to doubt it? This isn't some universe like ours where certain rules apply. It's magical and amazing and completely different and therefore we have no reason to think that Arceus isn't exactly what we've been told he is.

[Hamako-chan]

It is said that Arceus has created every Pokemon, I'm assuming it also created hundreds of Mews.

[MiTjA]

Where does gamefreak say that Arceus came first?

Originally Posted by XanderO

The Movies use these facts and work WITH Gamefreak when making the movies so even though they work differently they both say the same thing. Two different sources say the same thing.

The creators of the movies work with gamefreak? Thats news to me. Got any source?

I mean they make Kyurem change forme on its own, which is obviously complete nonsense compared to how gamefreak intended it when creating them.

[XanderO]

Deoxys changes form freely as well. Arceus can use all 16 plates. I never said that they follow all the rules of the game but how can they have any information on Pokemon without Gamefreak assisting them?

TPC runs everything in Pokemon, games and Anime and through them Gamefreak assists with movies. You also have Pokemon that aren't known about in movies a generation a head. How would a group that are supposed to be separate from the anime know about Pokemon that Gamefreak hasn't released?

Ken Sugimori works prominently as an artist for the games, but also creates artwork for the TCG and the Anime. Ken is one of them that helps create Pokemon and is part of Gamefreak if not then involved with them.

A lot of the concept art we got during the beginning of the release for various Pokemon were from Sugimori's Anime drawings so he worked with the Anime department as well.

They are all a close enough group that works along side each other.

Anime doesn't have to have the same standards as the games or follow all the same rules, but all the info is generally the same. Not to mention they use the same artists.

[Brendino]

Without reading through the entire thread, I thought that it was generally accepted that Arceus, being the God figure in the Pokemon world, came first. While a vast majority of Pokemon may be descendants of Mew, something created Mew, which I believe was Arceus.

[XanderO]

Originally Posted by MiTjA

Where does gamefreak say that Arceus came first?



The creators of the movies work with gamefreak? Thats news to me. Got any source?

I mean they make Kyurem change forme on its own, which is obviously complete nonsense compared to how gamefreak intended it when creating them.

Not picking but just found a new interview on Pokemon.com that says what i said pretty much. Masuda admits that he attends meetings for both the animations and TCGs and he has a slightly active role in the animations part while Mr. Unno deals more with the TCG stuff since he's the art director.

P.Com: It’s pretty well understood that designs in the video game lead the other aspects of Pokémon. Mr. Masuda, how often do you get consulted for upcoming animation and Pokémon TCG plans?

Mr. Masuda: There’s obviously talk between the different elements of Pokémon. For example, when the new movies or animation series are being planned, I participate in the meetings and discuss what’s going to be featured.

I was at first making connections and had no proof of what I said since I was only pulling from observations with Ken Sugimori being one of the lead artists for multiple areas of the Pokemon Franchise, but Masuda just pretty much said that all three areas work together is some aspect and the Animations, (movie or TV series) does get info straight from Gamefreak.

So the info from both the Anime and Games are pretty solid. We know from the Anime at least Arceus is definitely first. Game wise still points to Arceus.

(Only quoted cause this post would seem awkwardly out of place without it. sorry.)

[Shootingace]

You guys are arguing for what does not make sense. Plus, no Scientist didn't say Arceus created the universe. Arceus was ASLEEP. Did any of you even watch the movie? We finally know that Arceus is the creator by watching the movie. Cynthia was the first person to find out about Arceus in the games when she started researching. She said that in Celestic cave, the 'thing' in the middle wasn't Giratina, and it is of a more powerful being. This is concluded in HGSS when she recognizes if you have an Arceus in your party
For those of you who say science is involved in feeding info to arceus, watch the movie and replay all the games.
For those of you who say Arceus is only prior to Sinnoh; play Heartgold and go to the Sinjoh ruins.
And for the record the creators of the movie DO work with Gamefreak. Where else would they get the info? Where will they get the rights?

[Rivvon]

I think this may have been mentioned, but I will input my two cents anyways.

For all the people who says that Arceus being the creator of the universe is only a myth:
All we know of Mew being the "ancestor" of all Pokemon is its original PokeDex entry. Its PokeDex entry made by an old man who didn't even realize there was a whole other region attached to the one he was currently living in.

Anyways, to add more to the discussion, Bulbapedia has a very fascinating "history of the Pokemon universe," which basically establishes that Mew was once the only Pokemon, besides the legendaries who played a part in "creating" something (such as Groudon and Kyogre). Over time these Mews Darwinian-evolved into the other legendaries and common Pokemon we know of today, and is now elusive. So basically, "Arceus is the creator and Mew is the ancestor," as many others have said. It's really the best solution to incorporate both of their mythos. I mean, if it is to be believed, that means that Mew's original PokeDex entry is correct: Mew was the ancestor of all Pokemon...in gen 1, when they only knew about it and 150 others.

[MiTjA]

Originally Posted by Rivvon

I think this may have been mentioned, but I will input my two cents anyways.

For all the people who says that Arceus being the creator of the universe is only a myth:
All we know of Mew being the "ancestor" of all Pokemon is its original PokeDex entry. Its PokeDex entry made by an old man who didn't even realize there was a whole other region attached to the one he was currently living in.

Anyways, to add more to the discussion, Bulbapedia has a very fascinating "history of the Pokemon universe," which basically establishes that Mew was once the only Pokemon, besides the legendaries who played a part in "creating" something (such as Groudon and Kyogre). Over time these Mews Darwinian-evolved into the other legendaries and common Pokemon we know of today, and is now elusive. So basically, "Arceus is the creator and Mew is the ancestor," as many others have said. It's really the best solution to incorporate both of their mythos. I mean, if it is to be believed, that means that Mew's original PokeDex entry is correct: Mew was the ancestor of all Pokemon...in gen 1, when they only knew about it and 150 others.

Im not saying "Arceus is a myth" to prove that Mew is the ancestor. Both are fishy theories.

[AncientWarrior]

In my opinion, both. Both Mew and Arceus were around before the world was made. Mew and Arceus are two halfs of one powerful god(ess?) One half can be any type, while the other can know any move. Pitt them together, and you got a Pokemon that can be any type while knowing every move.


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[Mew8816]

Dunno if anyone has said something similar to this, cause I really can't be bothered reading through this whole thread. But anyway, this is what I think about Mew and Arceus.

In the beggening, there was nothing, until a giant vortex formed and unleashed chaos. From this chaos, Arceus was born. But, on the other side of the vortex, at the exact same time, Arceus' opposite, Mew was formed. Both wandered around in the universe, extremely bored, until they saw each other. Immeaditly from imense happiness, they both realeased their full powers. Arceus made all land, space, planets, regions and Mew made heaps of Pokemon. At first, it went well. But the vortex tore through the universe, making all pokemon unhappy and ruining the land. Arceus was also sad, because he was unable to make live pokemon. He/she told Mew, and they came to the aggrement that Mew would give Arceus the power to create pokemon that could control the universe (this done by Mew giving the power of making pokemon to Arceus) and that Arceus would give Mew his land powers (which enabled Mew to make pokemon that relate to the land). From this, Arceus made Dialga/Palkia/Giratina to control space and time, thus controlling the vortex. Now Mew, knowing that all earthly beings needed to be put through some strife in life to make them tough, asked Arceus to make a volcano, mountain and clouds, and from Arceus' land power Mew was able to create the legendary bird pokemon to control these mass destroyers. Arceus and Mew then used thier powers to cut up the vortex and put them in the volcanos, etc. Thus the world had been made and controlled.

My theory means that Mew and Arceus were made at the same time, and that Mew contains every dna because he created (almost) every pokemon. Arceus was able to make Dialga,etc. because Mew gave him the power to. Arceus is able to change types because he is the able to make land. Arceus and Mew are opposites, this is why they were born to other sides of the vortex and Arceus creates land and Mew creates pokemon.

Thanks!

[glitchguy]

I think that Arceus was first.It created the universe and then created Mew.Mew or Mews then "evolved" into different pokemon but some of them didn't evolve and stayed Mew and that is why its Dna matches with all other pokemon.

[MiTjA]

Originally Posted by Mew8816

Dunno if anyone has said something similar to this, cause I really can't be bothered reading through this whole thread. But anyway, this is what I think about Mew and Arceus.

In the beggening, there was nothing, until a giant vortex formed and unleashed chaos. From this chaos, Arceus was born. But, on the other side of the vortex, at the exact same time, Arceus' opposite, Mew was formed. Both wandered around in the universe, extremely bored, until they saw each other. Immeaditly from imense happiness, they both realeased their full powers. Arceus made all land, space, planets, regions and Mew made heaps of Pokemon. At first, it went well. But the vortex tore through the universe, making all pokemon unhappy and ruining the land. Arceus was also sad, because he was unable to make live pokemon. He/she told Mew, and they came to the aggrement that Mew would give Arceus the power to create pokemon that could control the universe (this done by Mew giving the power of making pokemon to Arceus) and that Arceus would give Mew his land powers (which enabled Mew to make pokemon that relate to the land). From this, Arceus made Dialga/Palkia/Giratina to control space and time, thus controlling the vortex. Now Mew, knowing that all earthly beings needed to be put through some strife in life to make them tough, asked Arceus to make a volcano, mountain and clouds, and from Arceus' land power Mew was able to create the legendary bird pokemon to control these mass destroyers. Arceus and Mew then used thier powers to cut up the vortex and put them in the volcanos, etc. Thus the world had been made and controlled.

My theory means that Mew and Arceus were made at the same time, and that Mew contains every dna because he created (almost) every pokemon. Arceus was able to make Dialga,etc. because Mew gave him the power to. Arceus is able to change types because he is the able to make land. Arceus and Mew are opposites, this is why they were born to other sides of the vortex and Arceus creates land and Mew creates pokemon.

Thanks!

But what's there to support your story or any of the other similar ones?
Mew doesn't seem like its capable of creating pokemon or anything like that to me. At least for Arceus we know it can do a special ritual where it creates one of the dimension trio with the help of Unown... but that's about it.

I don't see Mew anywhere near Arceus tbh, they are like the most unrelated legendaries ever with completely different appearances/roles/encounters. While Arceus is like this worshipped ancient epic figure, Mew is like just some super duper rare stem-cell cat from the deep wild.

We can wonder about what Dialga/Palkia would have done if they would not have been interupted in DP, but even there we can merely speculate what was really going on for example.

[pokegym]

heres my idea the chaos the game talks about in the beginning are the unown .the unown create a egg to govern the chaos. it hatchs into mew .over thousand of years any pokemon have evoled into what we know today but new pokemon began to destroy the earth so mew decides to take action he gives a egg to celebi to take it to the past before the unown create mew changing the time line making them both the first pokemon...

[Gravyty 0]

Arceus is the Big Bang . Mew is the miracle of the life

[naguto]

Theoretically speaking, Mew is the ancestor and Arceus is the Creator.
Therefore, the ancestor came before the creator. Arecus' egg was created from built up matter in the universe, eventually growing large enough to create 4 colossal figures of power. Mew is scientifically speaking as Arceus is religiously speaking. Mew was created from built up DNA, a much more complex and molecular substance that can spread. Greatly debatable question.

[jellotime91]

Maybe different regions subscribe to different beliefs, much like how we have Catholics in Italy and Buddhists in Japan.

[Iceman3317]

Actually Arceus created Groudon,Regigigas,Kyrogre,Rayquaza,and the other Legends to help creat the land. Groudon the maker of land,Kyogre the raising of water,Rayquaza the order of the sky,and Regigigas the shaper and movment of the land. Dialga and Palkia were the controllers of Space and Time. And Girtina was the remover of the negative enrgy of the land. Mew was probably brought to being so that it could help create lesser pokemon. At least this is what I have gotten from the lore that is in the games.

I think the Unown are probably workers for Arceus to make Illusions and stuff in that nature. And to leave messages for the humans and pokemon when Arceus cannot come forth.

[Mononoke Hime]

Maybe they're just brothers and they both maked the Universe and the Pokemon World.

[Draco Razr]

Originally Posted by Iceman3317

Actually Arceus created Groudon,Regigigas,Kyrogre,Rayquaza,and the other Legends to help creat the land. Groudon the maker of land,Kyogre the raising of water,Rayquaza the order of the sky,and Regigigas the shaper and movment of the land. Dialga and Palkia were the controllers of Space and Time. And Girtina was the remover of the negative enrgy of the land. Mew was probably brought to being so that it could help create lesser pokemon. At least this is what I have gotten from the lore that is in the games.

I think the Unown are probably workers for Arceus to make Illusions and stuff in that nature. And to leave messages for the humans and pokemon when Arceus cannot come forth.

I agree with you. This sounds more reasonable than the post above.