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  #1    
Old May 9th, 2012 (10:42 AM).
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wolf
 
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Forget all of the past failures of CBC and pretend this is a completely new forum on PC. Would you do anything differently than the way CBC is run now? What would you add or change? Do you think CBC's current format is flawed? Or do you think CBC is perfectly fine the way it is, that there's nothing we can do to fix our lack of activity? Surely there's something you would change, considering the current condition CBC is in. I don't care if it's a radical or minor change; post anything that's on your mind.

Additionally, let me ask you another question, particularly towards CBC regulars losing interest in competitive battling. Is there anything CBC can do to spark some interest in competitive battling again? Perhaps we could try creating our own metagame, and attempt to fix the flaws Smogon OU supposedly has? Would battling be more interesting then? Or would something such as some tournaments or Community Night do that? Or is it a hopeless case, something we can't do anything about?

Lastly, is there any reason why you aren't active in CBC (assuming you aren't)? Do you not like posting and rating teams in CBC? How about the events: do you assume that if you post a tournament, it won't be successful? Or do you not like events? Or are you too busy to host one? Or is it because your losing interest in battling or CBC? Is there anything that can be done to make CBC more interesting?

If you have nothing to say, that's fine. I thought it wouldn't hurt to ask for some feedback from everyone before I start implementing some of my own ideas. Sorry about the flurry of questions by the way. You don't have to answer every single one of course.
  #2    
Old May 9th, 2012 (11:24 AM).
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Yo

Is there anything CBC can do to spark some interest in competitive battling again?
I like the idea of building your own metagame. But if you ask me, it isn't about tiers, but more so towards the game itself that makes a lot of people lose interest, what with hax and all that. Also school and such play a big factor in this.
So I don't think you can change the whole game just by doing your own rules. Best you can do is wait, Summer break is here soon anyway.
  #3    
Old May 9th, 2012 (01:38 PM). Edited May 9th, 2012 by Dark Azelf.
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Dream Evil.
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Personally i think the main problem is as follows in regards to BW;

OU SUCKS.
OU SUCKS.
OU SUCKS.
OU SUCKS.
OU SUCKS.
OU SUCKS.
OU SUCKS.
OU SUCKS.
OU SUCKS.
OU SUCKS.
OU SUCKS.
OU SUCKS.
OU SUCKS.
OU SUCKS.
OU SUCKS.
OU SUCKS.
OU SUCKS.
OU SUCKS.
OU SUCKS.

KILL IT WITH FIRE. MY AVATAR IS THE TERMINATOR AND I WISH HE WOULD COME BACK FROM THE FUTURE TO TERMINATE GEN 5 RATHER THAN LINDA HAMILTON. @_@

Anyway lol really its a lost cause because between volt turn, weather and BS threats like Volc, Reuniclus etc is a recipe for an awful metagame because it forces you to use stupid niche garbage thats barely useful otherwise and you end up with like two slots to use. It didnt help that things that could at least revenge kill the aforementioned were banned namely Excadrill. Ive played pretty much most metagames from RBY onwards and BW ou is by far the worst imo. Its hilarious that ubers is more balanced. As ive said in the past we cant even do anything with the garbage metagame because we can no longer have our say thanks to the retarded council which hasn't done anything since its inclusion and has basically just made OU rot and turned it into a stagnant metagame. A metagame should ALWAYS change and not just stay the same for it to not become boring and die. Gen 4 was always changing/running tests and thats what made it better than this, it was also MUCH more balanced than this where stall, offense heck any play style could win. BW is just volt turning, weather and who has the most broken pokes wins. =/

If you want more evidence than my opinion, the fact that most people now sit on the "BW NU" or some other tier/gen tab on our server speaks volumes tbh.

I feel we should shift the broad focus away from OU at least until BW2 (which may possibly ix some things) and to other metagames (maybe dreamworld OU? i.e Lightning Rod Zap poops all over Volt Turn, Imposter Ditto to stop stat up BS etc) or even gens. Like what has been happening lately with the OU > NU transition.

Tournaments/Comm nights should get more people interested too in the aforementioned, i fail to see why NONE have been posted. <--- PRIORITY. The reason we arent active is because we need a community, how can we have a community when everyone is bored and there is nothing to "bond one" so to speak ? 07 S+M was a tight knit community, yeah the odd 3 or 4 are now but its not like then.

Im all for our own tiers too, because smogon isnt doing anything with OU atm and id take gen 4's mindset in regards to bans over this any day, at least it was active. =\

The server being down every other week doesnt help either.

Lastly, i dunno about you guys but team rating blows and it feels like a chore. Its gone from being fun to i literally could care less, ill let someone who is bothered do it. Sorry if that sounds dickish but thats how i feel. Id really need ALOT of motivation to start doing it regularly again tbh.

Those are my frustrations p much.
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  #4    
Old May 9th, 2012 (03:08 PM).
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Anti
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Quote:
The server being down every other week doesnt help either.
I agree. I think though that this hints at a larger problem though: everything is too heavily centralized around the server. Maybe I just have on "nostalgia goggles" but it seems like we did pretty well when it went down long ago. Hell, we didn't even have one for awhile and we still thrived.

I think our forum is being neglected too much in that sense. Our server is good for a lot of things, but we rarely have anything that even approaches a worthwhile discussion. I don't think discussions have to be contrived either--just look at what Smogon has done with them. And really, competitive Pokemon isn't just about the battling. It's about the analysis and stuff too...not to mention just hanging out with our interweb-friends, eh?

Quote:
OU SUCKS.
Maybe as a community we should just single out two or three metas most everyone likes and focus on those? Preferably with a non-gen 5 meta thrown in there. I don't see how waiting for B2W2 really solves anything when it almost positively cannot deal with the fact that competitive Pokemon becomes more and more of a crapshoot as more and more viable threats are added. Why not just go with something that is proven and/or already popular?

Quote:
Tournaments/Comm nights should get more people interested too in the aforementioned, i fail to see why NONE have been posted. <--- PRIORITY. The reason we arent active is because we need a community, how can we have a community when everyone is bored and there is nothing to "bond one" so to speak ? 07 S+M was a tight knit community, yeah the odd 3 or 4 are now but its not like then.
Glad someone brought this up though I'm going to take it further...

I feel like our community has been more fractured over the past several months than it once was. This more than anything makes me not-so-motivated to try to battle again. I am quite confident that there are regular members who dislike other regular members...just speaking as someone who has been the subject of venom from one particular member. Or from the "oh my God Nica shut up" comments from another particular member. Or even the rare "lolderk" you get. Or just the general complaining or discontent that, as a mod, I noticed in a lot of people (because they expressed it to me privately or something like that). Since I've basically been isolated from here for like a month, I don't know how much discord there is, if any. But I find the recent community dynamics...odd...to say the least. I guess, if this is still in fact the reality, is it really worth it to hold dumb grudges or to dislike someone just because it's edgy? Just food for thought. ;(

(Not like that's where D_A was going with what he said, but still...)
  #5    
Old May 9th, 2012 (03:33 PM). Edited May 9th, 2012 by The Void.
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Would you do anything differently than the way CBC is run now?
I'd be a bit curious with it then after getting used to it, I'd act the same why as I do now.

Is there anything CBC can do to spark some interest in competitive battling again?
A good idea might be an event like the site-wide PO Tournament held before, since not a lot of people are really into competitive and checking in and out of CBC. I was also thinking how about create a guide to competitive battling for others (there isn't really a decent one for 5th gen that can help newcomers and all).

Is there any reason why you aren't active in CBC (assuming you aren't)?
I actually do check it from time to time but if ever I'd be inactive there, it would be because it's too dull or boring or too time-consuming for me and all. xD

And Dark Azelf said everything I could ever say lol (he's right, OU is too unbalanced, the server is too annoying, and yep, events are a very good idea).
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  #6    
Old May 9th, 2012 (04:08 PM).
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One of the main issues that's driving me crazy is T&E currently. In PKM's league, there's like at least 5-10 posts everyday which are like "Yeah sure...............................", with post count adding to users overall post count. While this doesn't entirely matter, it means setting the post count off in every other section is kinda counterproductive if that's allowed and I feel like if the rule was altered a bit to only apply to either quick battle thread where you wouldn't need the 25 chars this wouldn't be as much as an issue. Of course the thread itself would need to change the format a bit, but yeah. Also the fact that it's constantly going off-topic too, while I feel that it can be a great way to attract future regulars to the section, it can also be negative in that they stay in the league forever and don't really... leave there. Like I suggested to pkm to mention that the people could make RMTs in the main forum, and only one did out of a league of like... 25. And it feels like it's kinda isolated as it is, although idk I'd just prefer if there weren't two basically groups between PO play and wifi play, divided by the server and the league.

Less sexual stuff on the server, like honestly I've been talking to people and that in general is keeping people away from the server, and while they aren't in the forum anyway, if they're active enough on the server they can eventually move to the forum and so on. I just feel like it isn't really a welcoming environment and considering how everyone was acting when TJ arrived I have no clue how he managed to stay/why he's staying. Less crazy people really wouldn't. :( The server is also key to new regulars, people generally stay active in CBC and so on if they're on the server imo (with the exception of like Hikari10/PlatDude but otherwise this is true) and to be able to help the forum itself that stuff... idk it should be more welcoming. I've been trying to attract/convince every new user and about everyone I talk to, to actually come here and I feel like when I actually get them on the server, or they post here it should be more open/welcoming rather than "boobs bosh carbs shedinja". Like constantly it just isn't really that appealing.

On activity, Karp and I were like discussing yesterday with a few others about a PC PO league since PKM's was effective and I think that just bringing stuff like that would make people wanna do stuff more. As it is now I only really battle against Doronjo and maybe a few others because everyone else just doesn't really battle which is kinda annoying. In fact, half the server regulars don't battle which for a battling community probably isn't good.

Also agreed with DA on the OU thing, I just got bored of the fact that basically every team had to be the same and it was a lot harder to cover everything you needed to in a team without it being literally the same. I just think concentrating on something else may be more effective or just making what's current well, less flawed.

As for general events, I made one before but like, with only like 4/5 people there isn't really enough interest to do anything because nobody cares which is annoying. And uh, for rating teams I try to treat it as a competition to make it more something I wanna do. Like I know PlatDude is going to mostly always post so I try to beat him w/ more information and such while he'll cover the rest or I mention things him/others have forgot. Only thing I really don't enjoy doing is long in-game team rates because they need so much improvement, but for any chance of them being competitive/staying they need to learn stuff so idk, usually takes me 3-4 days to do that.

But yeah I think that also general advertisement is also a good thing, while working on making everything a "community". Oh and as dragon said, general guides should totally be updated soon too. :(
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  #7    
Old May 10th, 2012 (12:13 PM). Edited May 10th, 2012 by wolf.
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Spoiler:
Thanks for the replies by the way. I am surprised this thread has more than two posts!!

@ Spinosaurus: I think both rules and the game itself play a role here. After all, I constantly hear complaints about Smogon's rules on the server, unless those are trivial. A luck free server is possible though, but I doubt all the trouble going into making it wouldn't be worth it.

@ Dark Azelf: I agree with everything you said. The server being down isn't something Petie or I can fix, because the Windows updates that restart his computer are what causes the server to shut down. Petie tried to find a way for the server to send a message to him whenever it shuts down, but he wasn't successful. Like Anti said, we are definitely relying on the server too much.

@ Anti: I agree, perhaps the server staff should start being stricter when it comes to enforcing rules, especially the "respect each other" rule.

@ dragon456: Well, we hold a Get-Together tournament twice a year (assuming the winter GT happens again BEFORE THE WORLD ENDS) if that's what you mean by a "site-wide" tournament. Those tournaments are always booming with activity, but no one ever sticks around once GT ends. We could go with Anti's idea of focusing on around three metagames to play, make a tournament focusing on them, and then advertise it. I think this calls for another Community Night to decide on which metagames to use. ;)

@ Forever: So what you're saying is, the character limit rule should be implemented again? I am not sure if I like the idea of forcing members to discuss something when they are really just trying to find a battle. It seems unnecessary, since T&E's purpose is to battle. As for the split communities between Wi-Fi and PO players, I'm unsure if we can do anything to fix that other than encouraging them to post in the battling chat sticky. I had an idea back when CBC was split into S&M and Stadium, which meant making a PO server channel that Wi-Fi battlers could use to find a battle and such. I guess that could work, since our community's "core" is the server. Or we could use the forum more, but that means the battling server regulars will have to battle. And yeah, we probably should tone down the "horniness" in the chat.

Regarding the league... You guys could host one. Personally, I don't think every single event we have should need "official PokéCommunity <eventname>" stamped on them. Also, there should be a reason to join the league. "Why should I join that league?" "What makes it different from any other league?" We need ask ourselves questions like that, and make sure the thread doesn't end up as a "post ur battlez" thread like clans were. Old-fashioned leagues didn't work in the past, because CBC didn't have enough users to include both active gym leaders and challengers. (I take that back, we did have enough members the last time PC had an official league, but no one was interested in it.) Not to mention it wasn't very fun in the end. Also, Pkm's league is active because of a couple reasons: 1) it's Wi-Fi based so members need a thread to schedule battles, unlike PO (one reason why PO clans didn't work like Wi-Fi clans did in the past); 2) it's pretty spammy; 3) they enjoy battling. That's why I prefer starting with small tournaments and the Community Night first. They're reliable and proven to work when done properly. But if anyone wants to make a league now, by my guest. It doesn't hurt to try, right? If anyone has an event idea, go make it. Don't wait for me to do it!

About "every team being the same"... Every metagame is like that. There is always going to be the top 10 Pokémon that gets recycled by everyone. I can't speak for every tier obviously, but every generation OU has been in was like this, with DPPt OU being the most diverse and balanced (after the Salamence ban of course!). But even that had GFW cores as a team strategy that practically everyone used.

Tournaments... Every time I held one they were successful, but I "forced" some people to join them, hehe. Also, you're tournament was standard BW OU, so I am not really surprised. Weather theme was pretty redundant too imo; everyone uses weather already, so it's not any different from BW OU sadly.

Rating teams... Well, this is interesting. It seems everyone thinks rating is a chore, yes? You guys don't have post massive rates to be helpful you know, if that helps any.

Battling guide... I have been working on that from time to time. I already have the format done, and once I have time, I will continue finishing it. If I need help, I might ask for assistance later.


Anyway, my plan for CBC hasn't changed much from when I posted in the improvement thread. I would like to "revive" the Community Night first, mainly to gauge how bad our activity is and how small our member base is right now. This is the perfect time to have it with school close to ending. Forum and server tournaments will likely follow (hopefully I won't be only one hosting these!), because unlike other events they can function with a small amount of members. Perhaps T&E activity will improve some (and the guide will be done) by then, and we can try larger events like leagues. If that happens, I will see if I can introduce something I have been wanting to do for a while now.

tl;dr My goal is to get T&E active, and should happen if people battle. Hopefully that isn't too much to ask for!

So yeah, expect to see Community Night posted soon. I don't think much will change, but I might be proven wrong. Maybe I'll start thinking CBC is worth my time? .-.
  #8    
Old May 10th, 2012 (12:22 PM).
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Anti
I forgive you, Chris Bosh.
 
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I'll second the proposal to jettison the bizarre chat not just because it has become tiresome but because it actually is more fun when it's related to the forum or Pokemon or something moderately pertinent, even in the most casual way possible...not "let's analyze the impact of Muk on the metagame" but more like making fun of SR weak pokes or something, hehe.
  #9    
Old May 10th, 2012 (03:54 PM).
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let it go
 
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Quote originally posted by Wolflare:
@ Forever: So what you're saying is, the character limit rule should be implemented again? I am not sure if I like the idea of forcing members to discuss something when they are really just trying to find a battle. It seems unnecessary, since T&E's purpose is to battle. As for the split communities between Wi-Fi and PO players, I'm unsure if we can do anything to fix that other than encouraging them to post in the battling chat sticky. I had an idea back when CBC was split into S&M and Stadium, which meant making a PO server channel that Wi-Fi battlers could use to find a battle and such. I guess that could work, since our community's "core" is the server. Or we could use the forum more, but that means the battling server regulars will have to battle. And yeah, we probably should tone down the "horniness" in the chat.

Regarding the league... You guys could host one. Personally, I don't think every single event we have should need "official PokéCommunity <eventname>" stamped on them. Also, there should be a reason to join the league. "Why should I join that league?" "What makes it different from any other league?" We need ask ourselves questions like that, and make sure the thread doesn't end up as a "post ur battlez" thread like clans were. Old-fashioned leagues didn't work in the past, because CBC didn't have enough users to include both active gym leaders and challengers. (I take that back, we did have enough members the last time PC had an official league, but no one was interested in it.) Not to mention it wasn't very fun in the end. Also, Pkm's league is active because of a couple reasons: 1) it's Wi-Fi based so members need a thread to schedule battles, unlike PO (one reason why PO clans didn't work like Wi-Fi clans did in the past); 2) it's pretty spammy; 3) they enjoy battling. That's why I prefer starting with small tournaments and the Community Night first. They're reliable and proven to work when done properly. But if anyone wants to make a league now, by my guest. It doesn't hurt to try, right? If anyone has an event idea, go make it. Don't wait for me to do it!

About "every team being the same"... Every metagame is like that. There is always going to be the top 10 Pokémon that gets recycled by everyone. I can't speak for every tier obviously, but every generation OU has been in was like this, with DPPt OU being the most diverse and balanced (after the Salamence ban of course!). But even that had GFW cores as a team strategy that practically everyone used.

Tournaments... Every time I held one they were successful, but I "forced" some people to join them, hehe. Also, you're tournament was standard BW OU, so I am not really surprised. Weather theme was pretty redundant too imo; everyone uses weather already, so it's not any different from BW OU sadly.

Rating teams... Well, this is interesting. It seems everyone thinks rating is a chore, yes? You guys don't have post massive rates to be helpful you know, if that helps any.

Battling guide... I have been working on that from time to time. I already have the format done, and once I have time, I will continue finishing it. If I need help, I might ask for assistance later.
Well if not, then posts not adding to post count, since if it's just for battling it shouldn't really matter, and with clans on any important discussion isn't really... going to occur. If that happened posts like that wouldn't really be so bad, but trade corner (or will get fixed?) had it and so on which seemed to work out for them. No post count won't really stop people from being active though but it'd be more clean. :x imo I don't think it'd be an issue sorta like it is now w/ the current league.

Well I'm fine with holding off on it for now (and karp's fine too) until the other stuff happens.

Dunno it just seems to be worse in ou than nu but it might just be the fact that I've seen ou Pokemon so much that it's just an overall thing.

ya if I do that again I'll come up w/ a better idea.
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  #10    
Old May 10th, 2012 (03:57 PM). Edited May 10th, 2012 by Exile.
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Uhh I guess just get some more cool people to make this place feel more like a community? Probably sounded stupid as hell but there has to be some way to convert all those guys in pkmn wifi league [which I really dont see a problem with, it's nbd what they're doing as long as they aren't spamming porn or getting in fights or what have you] into full fledged community members? Im not sure how it worked in Gen 4 with people going from wifi randoms to 'regulars' who laddered on smogon and stuff but maybe theres something we can do to find more active regulars.


also rating isnt a chore per se but it gets tedious after a while and can seem pointless to continue if theres no light at the end of the tunnel, plus, I dont think rating any of the teams here right now would actually benefit the forum since most of the people posting them are randoms


also we dont need to take a league that seriously if we do one, I threw together a water gym team with Spdef venusaur just because I wanted to use it; you dont have to get overly competitive if you dont want to
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  #11    
Old May 16th, 2012 (08:04 PM).
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Anti
I forgive you, Chris Bosh.
 
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This thread probably shouldn't die.

Quote originally posted by Requility:


Well if not, then posts not adding to post count, since if it's just for battling it shouldn't really matter, and with clans on any important discussion isn't really... going to occur. If that happened posts like that wouldn't really be so bad, but trade corner (or will get fixed?) had it and so on which seemed to work out for them. No post count won't really stop people from being active though but it'd be more clean. :x imo I don't think it'd be an issue sorta like it is now w/ the current league.

Well I'm fine with holding off on it for now (and karp's fine too) until the other stuff happens.

Dunno it just seems to be worse in ou than nu but it might just be the fact that I've seen ou Pokemon so much that it's just an overall thing.

ya if I do that again I'll come up w/ a better idea.
I don't see the point of removing post count since it doesn't actually solve the problem you described in your first post (which honestly doesn't seem like a huge problem to me...I just don't see why it's a huge deal). I feel like we have waaaaaay bigger issues.

Quote originally posted by Karpman:
Uhh I guess just get some more cool people to make this place feel more like a community? Probably sounded stupid as hell but there has to be some way to convert all those guys in pkmn wifi league [which I really dont see a problem with, it's nbd what they're doing as long as they aren't spamming porn or getting in fights or what have you] into full fledged community members? Im not sure how it worked in Gen 4 with people going from wifi randoms to 'regulars' who laddered on smogon and stuff but maybe theres something we can do to find more active regulars.

also rating isnt a chore per se but it gets tedious after a while and can seem pointless to continue if theres no light at the end of the tunnel, plus, I dont think rating any of the teams here right now would actually benefit the forum since most of the people posting them are randoms

also we dont need to take a league that seriously if we do one, I threw together a water gym team with Spdef venusaur just because I wanted to use it; you dont have to get overly competitive if you dont want to
I don't disagree with anything you said though I would say that as nice as more good users would be, I think our userbase, while small, is actually pretty sufficient. It was never that big even when things were rockin' "back in the day" so I feel like strengthening our current community would have a similar and perhaps greater effect. I think that's a notable amendment of sorts to what you're saying.

And on that note and kinda relating to your "rating is tedious thing," I think the big issue with the main forum is how it has become more forced as you alluded to...when at its best, it's actually fun to post in because we can have legitimately engaging discussions, can help each other and exchanges ideas, etc. It used to be this way--I think there is a reason the old guard users have inflated post counts. It was pretty awesome. If there's anything I'd like to see change (going full circle back to Wolf's questions), it would be a return to that. With a more exciting meta and just more metas to choose from, I think this is within reach.
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  #12    
Old May 16th, 2012 (08:45 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Requility:
Less sexual stuff on the server, like honestly I've been talking to people and that in general is keeping people away from the server, and while they aren't in the forum anyway, if they're active enough on the server they can eventually move to the forum and so on. I just feel like it isn't really a welcoming environment and considering how everyone was acting when TJ arrived I have no clue how he managed to stay/why he's staying. Less crazy people really wouldn't. The server is also key to new regulars, people generally stay active in CBC and so on if they're on the server imo (with the exception of like Hikari10/PlatDude but otherwise this is true) and to be able to help the forum itself that stuff... idk it should be more welcoming. I've been trying to attract/convince every new user and about everyone I talk to, to actually come here and I feel like when I actually get them on the server, or they post here it should be more open/welcoming rather than "boobs bosh carbs shedinja". Like constantly it just isn't really that appealing.
This right here is the main problem. The server is completely unwelcoming and a rather repulsive place to be. It's a boys' club that revels in nasty sexual jokes and insults. I want to become active in the battling community here, but instead I use Smogon because of the atmosphere. There is a general air of negativity around here, especially on the server. Things need to be done, people need to be talked to. Someone needs to tell them "Fix it, or leave for good." That's the only way you'll get my activity... just my two cents.
  #13    
Old May 16th, 2012 (08:46 PM).
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I'm just saying, but I constantly see things happening in CBC all the time, and I get interested, and then I remember how people who go onto PO are constantly trying to be "edgy" and making everything sexual and being rude and in general having the attitude of 13 year old boys. When I wanted to learn how to battle I went onto the Smogon server and practiced there because I didn't really want to be around that kind of crowd, and then ended up quitting rather than deal with it. So when you decide to strengthen the community you do have instead of changing things drastically, keep in mind that you are actively walling out people who are willing to play and learn and battle, but can't stand the "if you don't want to act like an uncontrollable teenager we think you're useless and don't belong here" attitude that CBC has always had to me. There are a few that are an exception to the rule, but most of the people I see/hear about seem to have this attitude where if you don't match their personalities then you shouldn't be a member of the section pretty much.

Anyway Nica asked me to post as a non-regular who could be turned into a regular, from the point of view of an outsider and how CBC looks to me. Disagree with me if you want, but if you can only see how it's not that way after you become a regular it would be kind of difficult to get new regulars, and then apparently the ones you have keep getting bored and quitting? So yeah that's a thing.
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  #14    
Old May 16th, 2012 (08:48 PM).
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I think the biggest thing to help boost CBC activity is help for Wolflare, really. 2 heads, or 3, is better than one. More man power means more things can get done and things get done in a quicker fashion. This goes for the server too. Extend auth to trusted regulars who A) will enforce rules, and B) who know their stuff. And to deal with idiots and adbots.

Like, I think that of a section is dead/in decline/not very active, then it needs more staff who can focus on forum building and improving the forum, instead of using the fact it's dead to not put a mod there.
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  #15    
Old May 16th, 2012 (09:01 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Livewire:
I think the biggest thing to help boost CBC activity is help for Wolflare, really. 2 heads, or 3, is better than one. More man power means more things can get done and things get done in a quicker fashion. This goes for the server too. Extend auth to trusted regulars who A) will enforce rules, and B) who know their stuff. And to deal with idiots and adbots.

Like, I think that of a section is dead/in decline/not very active, then it needs more staff who can focus on forum building and improving the forum, instead of using the fact it's dead to not put a mod there.
wolf is probably capable by himself unless life gets in the way but even if it does there really isnt a pool to pick from now, i guess you could extend nicas moderation here if we really wanted another mod here
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  #16    
Old May 16th, 2012 (09:09 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Karpman:
wolf is probably capable by himself unless life gets in the way but even if it does there really isnt a pool to pick from now, i guess you could extend nicas moderation here if we really wanted another mod here
Right, but making things less of a burden to take care of here is in the best interest for everyone, Wolfy included. More people bring more things to the table.
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  #17    
Old May 16th, 2012 (10:00 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Livewire:
I think the biggest thing to help boost CBC activity is help for Wolflare, really. 2 heads, or 3, is better than one. More man power means more things can get done and things get done in a quicker fashion. This goes for the server too. Extend auth to trusted regulars who A) will enforce rules, and B) who know their stuff. And to deal with idiots and adbots.

Like, I think that of a section is dead/in decline/not very active, then it needs more staff who can focus on forum building and improving the forum, instead of using the fact it's dead to not put a mod there.
Except the fact that there were three mods here at one point, and the activity didn't spike. The "man power" that you speak of has always rested in the hands of the S&M/CBC regulars, and it always will. Not to offend any potential moderators but I feel that Wolflare can certainly manage what he needs to do right now and act as more of a guide than trying to take the forum by the nose and do x and y, like we have the past few years (and notice that it's gotten us pretty much nowhere). I think you have the right idea, that we need to have people to make magic happen, but the effort should not come from the staff. Wolfy will do an excellent job guiding the regulars to where we want to go; there's really no need for another CBC mod or more. And as far as the server goes, I'm fairly sure we have enough auth to go around at the time being. Plus, spamming servers isn't nearly as popular of an activity as it was apparently last summer (although idiots are still excessive).

tl;dr: We don't need more mods. We need active, regular members.

---

As far as the server troubles go (as to what Toujours and Mac of York said), S&M/CBC has always seemed to me like a sort of exclusive club where some of the more over-the-top things could slide and it'd be okay, since there were the right kind of people together and enough people that it didn't matter whether a few newcomers got offended and didn't want to return. We're clearly trying to go in the opposite direction now, but it's not going to be easy taking the nature of the discussion on the server and flipping it inside out. I'd like to point out that if we're fully intent on changing the way things work, then we need to actually enforce it. :/ Auth on the server needs to not engage in immature stuff like that and enforce its removal. Better yet, we need to focus more discussion on actual, Pokemon-related topics. That would be nice.

Also I might just be drawing from other threads since I really haven't been paying a whole lot of attention to PC lately (sorry!) but I like the idea of us having our own metagame, with all of the DW abilities released and sort of shaping it to be the way we want it. It gives us a lot more room to experiment with things (like DA said, maybe in another thread idr but testing Deoxys-N and such could be cool) and would really give more people a reason to actually play on the server. As it is, I only battle on our server when I ask other people to play and sometimes even then some people won't do so. Having our own meta would be really cool.
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  #18    
Old May 16th, 2012 (10:06 PM). Edited May 16th, 2012 by Anti.
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Quote originally posted by Mac of York:
This right here is the main problem. The server is completely unwelcoming and a rather repulsive place to be. It's a boys' club that revels in nasty sexual jokes and insults. I want to become active in the battling community here, but instead I use Smogon because of the atmosphere. There is a general air of negativity around here, especially on the server. Things need to be done, people need to be talked to. Someone needs to tell them "Fix it, or leave for good." That's the only way you'll get my activity... just my two cents.
I think that, just to address everyone else, if someone picks Smogon over PC because of its atmosphere, something has gone very wrong.

As for the last few sentences, we did try encouraging people to just do things but not much came out of it. At least for now. Though yes, I agree with pretty much everything you said.

Quote originally posted by Toujours:
I'm just saying, but I constantly see things happening in CBC all the time, and I get interested, and then I remember how people who go onto PO are constantly trying to be "edgy" and making everything sexual and being rude and in general having the attitude of 13 year old boys. When I wanted to learn how to battle I went onto the Smogon server and practiced there because I didn't really want to be around that kind of crowd, and then ended up quitting rather than deal with it. So when you decide to strengthen the community you do have instead of changing things drastically, keep in mind that you are actively walling out people who are willing to play and learn and battle, but can't stand the "if you don't want to act like an uncontrollable teenager we think you're useless and don't belong here" attitude that CBC has always had to me. There are a few that are an exception to the rule, but most of the people I see/hear about seem to have this attitude where if you don't match their personalities then you shouldn't be a member of the section pretty much.

Anyway Nica asked me to post as a non-regular who could be turned into a regular, from the point of view of an outsider and how CBC looks to me. Disagree with me if you want, but if you can only see how it's not that way after you become a regular it would be kind of difficult to get new regulars, and then apparently the ones you have keep getting bored and quitting? So yeah that's a thing.
I agree. It's odd because this is actually a recent phenomenon of sorts. When we did the whole "let's stop being intimidating idiots" thing a year or so ago, it mostly succeeded...and my theory (I have no idea if this is actually the case) is that this is what naturally fell into place because we never could actually root out the causes of the intimidation and ultimately settled on just making it stop. It was a stressful drama year and I think it was a benign way of relieving the stress...that eventually became not-so-benign. Or maybe I'm totally wrong. But yeah.

I think at some point though it's just kind of selfish. It's actually ridiculous how "edginess" as always been valued but virtually everyone even though it undermines the community--and I only speak of the existing regs, so if you add in the people it prevents from coming (like you lol) it seems like a pretty outdated pastime. Speaking from a (former) staff perspective though, it was always difficult to bring myself to actually take action because it almost always causes drama and--if it's major enough--it can really screw up the community. Like the D_A ban drama did. At some point, I feel like maybe people should just let us (and now just Wolf) enforce our rules.

Also not to diverge from your point too much, but the same phenomenon can happen during battles too with some people. It really shouldn't be the end of the world if you lose a match or get hit with a crit. Ugh.

Quote originally posted by Livewire:
I think the biggest thing to help boost CBC activity is help for Wolflare, really. 2 heads, or 3, is better than one. More man power means more things can get done and things get done in a quicker fashion. This goes for the server too. Extend auth to trusted regulars who A) will enforce rules, and B) who know their stuff. And to deal with idiots and adbots.

Like, I think that of a section is dead/in decline/not very active, then it needs more staff who can focus on forum building and improving the forum, instead of using the fact it's dead to not put a mod there.
To be honest, I don't agree with this at all. On the server, Wolf and I have auth 3, Vrai has auth 2, and Doronjo and Nica have auth 1. It is very rare for one of us to not be on, so I don't see the problem. In terms of the forum, it's very easy to moderate. Two people is actually more than enough...really. If anything, two people only made things get done later than necessary because of the whole "I'll let *mod partner* get those reports" haha. I really don't think the problem lies with the staff. Ultimately, regulars have to take responsibility for the fate of their own forum.

Though I will concede that sometimes our staff isn't effective because of what I described above responding to Toujours. I'll just name names because, I mean, we might as well just be honest at this point.

I muted Syndrome for being too harsh to Nica. I was promptly PMed "why" as if it wasn't really obvious. I basically said "why do you think" and he posted the very last thing he posted before he was kicked/muted which was harmless of course (even though like nothing else was ) and asked what could possibly be wrong with that. I proceeded to tell him to connect the dots himself. But really, can't we just be responsible? Jeez.

Several months ago, I destaffed Karpman on the server because we felt like he hadn't actually earned the spot at all and I promptly learned that he went on an MSN (?) rant ripping me to shreds, left PC for awhile, then came back and blamed me for most everything behind my back for months because of that and other issues that I had no idea he even had. Which is kind of frustrating when, you know, you have an Improvement Thread and are as open as possible with taking criticism and member feedback in general. And when I tried to talk to him I very rarely got any kind of chance to actually explain my actions. So I was getting blamed for CBC's problems as he saw them without actually knowing what they were. This might stun everyone, but as a result, nothing was actually solved and it was mutually destructive.

Trying to get D_A to stop with the whole "if I lose a battle I'm going to react like I'm six years old" has been like trying to impose austerity measures on Greece. This one is more like Syn's case: would it really be that hard to cease the selfish "my winning is more important than the community" thing? I mean, "WELL THIS WAS GAY" and forfeiting in frustration isn't exactly enticing to new members. Oh wait, I've made this case a million times already. Yeah, it's kind of hard to do our job well if we aren't listened to.

I know those last three paragraphs just might have derailed this thread forever. Sorry in advance. But they aren't meant as character assassinations AT ALL. Really. Or even "I'm still mad." But the point IS that it's very difficult to actually do our jobs when, after doing so, people are either snarky, become a malcontent for several months, or just flat-out don't listen. Or more to the point, it is impossible for us to do our jobs if people don't let us. 4-time NBA Champion coach Gregg Popovich attributed much of his success to Tim Duncan (one of the best players ever) allowing him to coach him. The same thing applies here. Our authority is ultimately meaningless if no one respects it or isn't just up front with their issues.

And I wanted to post that to make it clear that for anything to get done, people need to let us do our jobs. I don't know if it's still an issue, but even the prospect of a scenario like the three above has made me favor inaction a lot in my time here. I have no idea where Wolf stands. But that's my take. Solving the more entrenched problems here...it can be very difficult because of this. Or so I've come to believe. So again coming full circle to the OP...what would I like in CBC? More accountability, honesty, and respect, especially for the staff. Really, it's a hard job.

Anyway, I'm glad you three posted. Hopefully everyone takes a good long look at everything...
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  #19    
Old May 17th, 2012 (03:58 AM).
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I'm still rather new here, so I don't know how much weight my opinion carries, if any. I think the main problem is the hostility in the server. Some users can be pretty inappropriate and negative, which is really uncomfortable for people just trying to have a good time and battle. Maybe it's just me, but sometimes I'd rather talk about Pokémon than breasts...

I've modded chat rooms with people like that, so I can understand how frustrating it can be. It's a tough postition, because if you don't punish offenders, the situation will only get work, and of you do take action, you're an evil abuser of your power who doesn't even understand the situation. People who cannot see they are part of the problem are just poison to the server.

As for the CBC itself, there are a lot of RMTs, but I like some of the metagame discussion threads more. Threads such as "What's your favorite type to use in NU?" and "Best abilities?" or even "Post the most gimmicky team possible!" would hopefully motivate people who are not too skilled at suggesting movesets and the like to post.
  #20    
Old May 17th, 2012 (07:44 AM).
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My first experience with the community was through the server and I always try to base my attitude for the community I joined based on my first couple of impressions based on the community and I found an astronomical difference between the forums and the server.

On the server, my attitude is raunchy like the rest of them and it will probably continue to be that way unless something is done as that's my way of fitting in with them, but on the forum, my first couple of impressions made me feel like these are two entirely different communities. My attitude on here is a lot different then it was on the server my first night.

But that's one of *my* personal traits. If you don't change your attitude based on your enviroment, you will be repelled from the server or be bored of the forum and go into your respective corner of the community. It would probably be important to fix this fracture if you want to make things more breathable.
  #21    
Old May 17th, 2012 (08:27 AM).
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I'd quote the others buuut already discussed on IRC/PO and the fact that I consider tj old now :3

Quote originally posted by DispenserJustice:
My first experience with the community was through the server and I always try to base my attitude for the community I joined based on my first couple of impressions based on the community and I found an astronomical difference between the forums and the server.

On the server, my attitude is raunchy like the rest of them and it will probably continue to be that way unless something is done as that's my way of fitting in with them, but on the forum, my first couple of impressions made me feel like these are two entirely different communities. My attitude on here is a lot different then it was on the server my first night.

But that's one of *my* personal traits. If you don't change your attitude based on your enviroment, you will be repelled from the server or be bored of the forum and go into your respective corner of the community. It would probably be important to fix this fracture if you want to make things more breathable.
:( Yeah that's definitely not a good thing for someone so new to both PC and the community here. I'd definitely like to see that improved where you don't have to act that way to fit in (I try to be welcoming I guess to people as a warning literally to stay away from that stuff as it commonly happens?) and for everyone to be more accepting rather than like "oh yeah you're just a new person, carrying on with insults @ regs". But yeah, I do actually agree that they are two different places. On the forum here everyone is like 10x more formal, but when let loose on the server? Yeah totally different. Idk just some balance would be great, maybe enforce more that it is the forum's official server (then again that probably won't make much of a difference) rather than just a place to hang out and say whatever without any consequence. Considering it serves as the current primary place for idk, keeping people at CBC, that really isn't good.
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  #22    
Old May 17th, 2012 (10:29 AM). Edited October 2nd, 2013 by .Gamer.
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&lt;font size=&quot;1&quot;&gt;
Quote originally posted by Anti:
I think that, just to address everyone else, if someone picks Smogon over PC because of its &lt;i&gt;atmosphere&lt;/i&gt;, something has gone very wrong.
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Not necessarily. Smogon"s server is more battle-oriented and to be honest the PC server isn"t (hi I"m still alive and even though I haven"t been around lately, I"m not naive enough to think things have changed). The PC server is more of a hangout spot. It"s a chatroom and less of a place to battle. Smogon is more of a place to ladder, make a team and test it out and occasionally have serious discussion about why pokemon / set X is better than pokemon / set Y.&lt;/font&gt; http://gamewallopher.net/
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Old May 17th, 2012 (10:49 AM).
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Quote originally posted by .Gamer:


Not necessarily. Smogon's server is more battle-oriented and to be honest the PC server isn't (hi I'm still alive and even though I haven't been around lately, I'm not naive enough to think things have changed). The PC server is more of a hangout spot. It's a chatroom and less of a place to battle. Smogon is more of a place to ladder, make a team and test it out and occasionally have serious discussion about why pokemon / set X is better than pokemon / set Y.
He means as a community server, obviously smogon is the spot to ladder but the chat is awful.
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  #24    
Old May 17th, 2012 (11:13 AM).
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Yeah that's definitely not a good thing for someone so new to both PC and the community here. I'd definitely like to see that improved where you don't have to act that way to fit in
It's honestly no problem to me how I'm supposed to act to fit into a community. I join forums so I can meet people that share the same interests as me, such as Pokemon, and I can easily enjoy the company of a wide variety of people because I'm so used to a vast assortment of friends that I've met and currently have.

The question here is, do we want to threaten these regulars that have given a large amount of time and energy into the community but are threatening the newcomers (albeit unintentionally)? I mean, I'm new here so I really don't know how great of members these people are, but if their continued rudeness is threatening the expansion of the server then maybe actions should be taken so that the regulars on the forum don't need to feel afraid of going onto the server and being met with a cascade of sexual jokes that they find inappropriate.
  #25    
Old May 17th, 2012 (06:09 PM). Edited May 17th, 2012 by Yoshikko.
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I think Wolf will manage just fine on his own.

And I agree on that the server can be "sexual" sometimes, but those are jokes, all the regulars are comfortable with it (and heck if they aren't, they just ignore it) and they are hardly ever explicit to the point where it's unwelcoming or unsettling, and it's not even often, it really shouldn't be a big deal. Everything can't always be a bed of roses. I don't think people there should have to conform to other people's standards, just because they aren't tough-skinned enough. Imo, if you are new somewhere, you should adapt to the environment there, and not the other way around, and if you can't/don't want to then it's just not the place for you.
and hey hey hold up no one is even ""threatening"" newcomers
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