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  #626    
Old August 9th, 2013, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XmarkXalanX View Post
I already posted this map in my game's thread, but more criticism can be obtained here.

Papaya Town
Attachment 69173

The area within the fence has Cut-able trees and Headbutt-able trees, so it doesn't look so empty in-game. The same goes with the area to the Southeast of the Town.

Any suggestions on what to improve upon?
Randomize the mountain tiles on the left rather than making it all straight and stuff.
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  #627    
Old August 9th, 2013, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkmn.master View Post
Very good for a new mapper. Your trees are naturally placed and the tiles compliment each other.

You should clear out some empty space, though. Add some details around the empty areas such as shrubs, more trees, fencing, a bench, etc. You should try to mix in some water features if you can. Another way to add more detail - since your map is on a cliff, add more raised areas or rocks around the area, unless you meant this to be some kind of town built on a plateau, which is fine if you are adding some background information to the land for your game.

Finally, that lowering of elevation on the left side is perfectly straight from top to bottom. Unless story-driven, you could change the direction of it and make it wavy.

All else is amazing. This looks really good for someone who is new to the mapping world. You have jumped ahead of other new mappers in some aspects. Well done! Make some edits and post it again for more criticism and maybe try a new map.


Quote:
Originally Posted by oxysoft View Post
Randomize the mountain tiles on the left rather than making it all straight and stuff.
Randomized the canyon sides a bit, added a few decorations, and changed some tiles in the fenced in area.

Click image for larger version

Name:	Papaya Town V2.png
Views:	39
Size:	109.3 KB
ID:	69180
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  #628    
Old August 9th, 2013, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XmarkXalanX View Post
Randomized the canyon sides a bit, added a few decorations, and changed some tiles in the fenced in area.

Attachment 69180
I think it'd look a lot better, simply by making all the roads 3 tiles wide, instead of 2.

And, you should make the entrance to the town a LOT less wide. Narrow it down with trees.

Otherwise the map is really pretty good!
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  #629    
Old August 9th, 2013, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XmarkXalanX View Post
Randomized the canyon sides a bit, added a few decorations, and changed some tiles in the fenced in area.

Attachment 69180

Click image for larger version

Name:	Papaya%20Town%20V2.png
Views:	26
Size:	179.9 KB
ID:	69181

The map looks much better with your additions, but could use a tad bit more. I have marked around on your map some. In the yellow areas, try and add some more vegetation such as flowers or shrubs to help add some more character, but don't go overboard with it, just scatter something out there. In the red shaded areas, if you have the tiles, add some kind of bench or fencing. If you do decide to go with some fencing, leave several open spots so it won't decrease mobility too badly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tImE View Post
I think it'd look a lot better, simply by making all the roads 3 tiles wide, instead of 2.
I like tImE's idea also. Your dirt path could be a tile wider to help push out some of that open area of grass.
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  #630    
Old August 9th, 2013, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkmn.master View Post
Attachment 69181

The map looks much better with your additions, but could use a tad bit more. I have marked around on your map some. In the yellow areas, try and add some more vegetation such as flowers or shrubs to help add some more character, but don't go overboard with it, just scatter something out there. In the red shaded areas, if you have the tiles, add some kind of bench or fencing. If you do decide to go with some fencing, leave several open spots so it won't decrease mobility too badly.



I like tImE's idea also. Your dirt path could be a tile wider to help push out some of that open area of grass.
I tried widening the paths, but for this town, it just didn't look right to me. But I narrowed the entrance as per tImE's suggestion, and added some more decorations in areas that were somewhat sparse.

Click image for larger version

Name:	Papaya Town V4.png
Views:	29
Size:	114.7 KB
ID:	69182
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  #631    
Old August 9th, 2013, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XmarkXalanX View Post
Randomized the canyon sides a bit, added a few decorations, and changed some tiles in the fenced in area.

Attachment 69180
So there are a few things, which have been pointed out, but as we all have different styles, I figured I would add in my two cents as well.

In the spoiler is a picture of your map with key points I have highlighted.

Spoiler:


1. Fix this. Even if your player does not see it, it is sloppy. leaving it there speaks volumes about your dedication to mapping and as you force yourself to fix these issues regardless of whether or not your player will actually see them, your attention to detail will naturally grow.

2. Avoid this. As previously stated, your cliff is straight and it looks terrible. Adding expanses on the lower end helps, but not so much when the player can hardly see them and the part they actually do see is this straight edge. Either patch this hole with trees limiting the ability of the player being able to actually see it, or get rid of the straight edge. These are the only 2 screens where your player gets to see the cliff on this map and both of them are straight... it leaves for a poor map.

3. Avoid flowers sitting by their lonesome on the open. This area is a path and while it is not laid out with path tiles, it is walking space for the player to get to point A and point B. Logically, this flower is probably not going to exist in middle of a path.

4. This sign is a huge mistake. Nothing should ever be right up next to a door like that. in front of the door, aim to keep at least 1 tile open in either direction of the tile in front of the door. Moving the sign over 1 tile to the left, makes it look awkward, I understand this, but this is where tile selection becomes very important. You want tiles that compliment other tiles. This sign does not compliment any tiles as far as buildings are concerned. It is a sign that is best kept away from buildings because it leads to awkward placement like your map shows.

5. Try to avoid lining trees like this. I understand you want a natural feel to the map, but the way these trees are laid out is bad at conveying a natural feel. Cluster trees in situations like this, don't line them up.

6. This is a classic example of trying to make a natural break into a hidden grove gone bad. It looks horrendous to actually navigate. Removing the tree at the top of the circle, will go a long ways... I promise. If you move to the lower left of the map you will see a strikingly similar situation with your trees. and it falls prey to both mapping mistakes 5 and 6.

Also, a brief not about your twigs.

As someone who used Dew's sticks and twigs for a long time, they are best kept at the base of a tree. The tiles are big, and compared to an PC or NPC, they are sticks you have to jump over or walk around. They are more like logs, which means they are probably not passable in game without going around. This is why I kept them near the bases of the trees. it looks more natural and does not obstruct a path. It looks really bad when your player gets to walk over tiles like that.
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  #632    
Old August 9th, 2013, 10:48 AM
pkmn.master's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XmarkXalanX View Post
I tried widening the paths, but for this town, it just didn't look right to me. But I narrowed the entrance as per tImE's suggestion, and added some more decorations in areas that were somewhat sparse.

Attachment 69182
Now you getting it pretty good! I understand your point about the paths. Remember this: in mapping, it matters more what the beholder thinks of his own map when it is completed or near completion. The suggestions we provide here are to be taken with a grain of salt. In the end, it is what looks best to you that matters, since it is your art. Just take the criticism and see if it helps your maps improve in your own opinion.
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  #633    
Old August 9th, 2013, 10:51 AM
XmarkXalanX's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ЩѻƦḽᶑʂḽдƴƹƦ™ View Post
So there are a few things, which have been pointed out, but as we all have different styles, I figured I would add in my two cents as well.

In the spoiler is a picture of your map with key points I have highlighted.

Spoiler:


1. Fix this. Even if your player does not see it, it is sloppy. leaving it there speaks volumes about your dedication to mapping and as you force yourself to fix these issues regardless of whether or not your player will actually see them, your attention to detail will naturally grow.

2. Avoid this. As previously stated, your cliff is straight and it looks terrible. Adding expanses on the lower end helps, but not so much when the player can hardly see them and the part they actually do see is this straight edge. Either patch this hole with trees limiting the ability of the player being able to actually see it, or get rid of the straight edge. These are the only 2 screens where your player gets to see the cliff on this map and both of them are straight... it leaves for a poor map.

3. Avoid flowers sitting by their lonesome on the open. This area is a path and while it is not laid out with path tiles, it is walking space for the player to get to point A and point B. Logically, this flower is probably not going to exist in middle of a path.

4. This sign is a huge mistake. Nothing should ever be right up next to a door like that. in front of the door, aim to keep at least 1 tile open in either direction of the tile in front of the door. Moving the sign over 1 tile to the left, makes it look awkward, I understand this, but this is where tile selection becomes very important. You want tiles that compliment other tiles. This sign does not compliment any tiles as far as buildings are concerned. It is a sign that is best kept away from buildings because it leads to awkward placement like your map shows.

5. Try to avoid lining trees like this. I understand you want a natural feel to the map, but the way these trees are laid out is bad at conveying a natural feel. Cluster trees in situations like this, don't line them up.

6. This is a classic example of trying to make a natural break into a hidden grove gone bad. It looks horrendous to actually navigate. Removing the tree at the top of the circle, will go a long ways... I promise. If you move to the lower left of the map you will see a strikingly similar situation with your trees. and it falls prey to both mapping mistakes 5 and 6.

Also, a brief not about your twigs.

As someone who used Dew's sticks and twigs for a long time, they are best kept at the base of a tree. The tiles are big, and compared to an PC or NPC, they are sticks you have to jump over or walk around. They are more like logs, which means they are probably not passable in game without going around. This is why I kept them near the bases of the trees. it looks more natural and does not obstruct a path. It looks really bad when your player gets to walk over tiles like that.
Thank you for your siggestions. I think I'll address each of your points individually, in order.

1) I honestly thought that I fixed that. Haha. I just changed that for the next screenshot.

2) There are two Headbutt-able trees there. I just didn't get to changing the overworld sprite for them yet. So the player can't get to the ledge there. The events just aren't shown in the screenshot.

3) That flower was remedied in the latest screenshot that I previously posted. You should be able to see it in the following screenshot.

4) I moved it down towards the corner. To keep it away from the house. The house is for a Tree Guy, so I figured a wooden sign would work better than a mailbox or other sign.

5) I removed the right-most tree from here, as it wouldn't look good in a cluster with the newer decorations.

6) There is a Cut-able tree to keep the player from entering the grove without Cut.

7) I moved the twig piles to below the trees.

Thank you again for your suggestions.

Newest Screenshot
Click image for larger version

Name:	Papaya Town V5.png
Views:	41
Size:	176.5 KB
ID:	69183
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  #634    
Old August 9th, 2013, 10:56 AM
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Already looking miles better.

Too many flowers and too much fence.

My issue with the headbutt trees by the cliff is that they can still see the cliff. You want to take what your player can and cannot see in a screen size window anywhere on the map. The problem is that they can still see the straight cliff edge.
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  #635    
Old August 9th, 2013, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XmarkXalanX View Post
Newest Screenshot
Attachment 69183
See, this is the problem with getting help from many people at the same time.
It feels like too many cooks for the same soup.

The map looks better than it did at first, but I feel it's become rather messy now.

Try to find a good midwaypoint between
http://www.pokecommunity.com/attachm...chmentid=69180
and
http://www.pokecommunity.com/attachm...chmentid=69182

The first one is a little too empty, but the second one has a little too many flowers everywhere.
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  #636    
Old August 9th, 2013, 11:00 AM
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I like it now! I wouldn't change anything!
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  #637    
Old August 9th, 2013, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XmarkXalanX View Post
Thank you for your siggestions. I think I'll address each of your points individually, in order.

1) I honestly thought that I fixed that. Haha. I just changed that for the next screenshot.

2) There are two Headbutt-able trees there. I just didn't get to changing the overworld sprite for them yet. So the player can't get to the ledge there. The events just aren't shown in the screenshot.

3) That flower was remedied in the latest screenshot that I previously posted. You should be able to see it in the following screenshot.

4) I moved it down towards the corner. To keep it away from the house. The house is for a Tree Guy, so I figured a wooden sign would work better than a mailbox or other sign.

5) I removed the right-most tree from here, as it wouldn't look good in a cluster with the newer decorations.

6) There is a Cut-able tree to keep the player from entering the grove without Cut.

7) I moved the twig piles to below the trees.

Thank you again for your suggestions.

Newest Screenshot
Attachment 69183
might as well put flowers in checkered pattern on every single grass squares
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  #638    
Old August 9th, 2013, 11:11 AM
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I tried to find a happy medium. I'm fairly content with how it looks now. I don't believe I'll be making very many more changes to it after this.

Click image for larger version

Name:	Papaya Town V6.png
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ID:	69184
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  #639    
Old August 9th, 2013, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XmarkXalanX View Post
Thank you for your siggestions. I think I'll address each of your points individually, in order.

1) I honestly thought that I fixed that. Haha. I just changed that for the next screenshot.

2) There are two Headbutt-able trees there. I just didn't get to changing the overworld sprite for them yet. So the player can't get to the ledge there. The events just aren't shown in the screenshot.

3) That flower was remedied in the latest screenshot that I previously posted. You should be able to see it in the following screenshot.

4) I moved it down towards the corner. To keep it away from the house. The house is for a Tree Guy, so I figured a wooden sign would work better than a mailbox or other sign.

5) I removed the right-most tree from here, as it wouldn't look good in a cluster with the newer decorations.

6) There is a Cut-able tree to keep the player from entering the grove without Cut.

7) I moved the twig piles to below the trees.

Thank you again for your suggestions.

Newest Screenshot
Attachment 69183
Excellent! I wouldn't change anything else. If you are happy with it at this point, don't make any more changes.
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  #640    
Old August 9th, 2013, 11:31 AM
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Next to the red house, there is an empty and abrupt corner, across from the lamp post. Try and do something there, plain corners like that can lead to a lot of empty looking space in game.

If you can help it, try not to have such straight paths.

If you go on trails or walk paths in the real world, they are never just straight like those paths.

Here is a map of Pallet Town I made somewhat recently:

Spoiler:


As you can see, the path looks more rugged. It gives it am or natural feel. When the player walks along those, they also do not feel the need to follow it exactly, because they can still be on the trail.

Also, try to pick up some ruffled grass tile to help busy places in the grass where there are not flowers. It helps you from overdoing the flowers or rocks while still letting you keep things busy.
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  #641    
Old August 9th, 2013, 07:43 PM
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This is my first map i made ..... SO CRAPPY

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  #642    
Old August 9th, 2013, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFishHead2313 View Post
This is my first map i made ..... SO CRAPPY

Attachment 69189
Its not Bad. For a first map, its good. I've seen many bad first maps.

Just add a couple trees to the upper right and lower right corners, and maybemake the lower left corner more detailed. Add a park or something.
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  #643    
Old August 9th, 2013, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFishHead2313 View Post
This is my first map i made ..... SO CRAPPY

Attachment 69189
Problem: Too square. Try to make things look not that neat, I mean, it's a town but still. Like make the trees more random, and the waterplace a bit more sway.

Also, either make the path two tiles thin, or three tiles thin. Don't mix them up they make it look bad.
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  #644    
Old August 9th, 2013, 10:12 PM
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well thank u and ill fix it later
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  #645    
Old August 9th, 2013, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ЩѻƦḽᶑʂḽдƴƹƦ™ View Post
Next to the red house, there is an empty and abrupt corner, across from the lamp post. Try and do something there, plain corners like that can lead to a lot of empty looking space in game.

If you can help it, try not to have such straight paths.

If you go on trails or walk paths in the real world, they are never just straight like those paths.

Here is a map of Pallet Town I made somewhat recently:

Spoiler:


As you can see, the path looks more rugged. It gives it am or natural feel. When the player walks along those, they also do not feel the need to follow it exactly, because they can still be on the trail.

Also, try to pick up some ruffled grass tile to help busy places in the grass where there are not flowers. It helps you from overdoing the flowers or rocks while still letting you keep things busy.
I like the neat building shadows. And the Pidove Shadows. And the path seems more realistic. But I wonder. What are those diamond indents on the cliffs? The ones with a tilted small square of grass? I dunno, they seem a bit funny. Either way, the map is great. And the way the trees overflow into the town, it seems nice.
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  #646    
Old August 10th, 2013, 05:13 PM
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Achievement Get: First map!

Ok, that was a lie. This isn't my first. But it IS the first one that isn't the worst thing ever! This isn't for a game, I just wanted practice on my mapping. so, critiques? Be as harsh as needed!

Spoiler:


The house on the hill is the Player's house, Red roof is main rival and Green roof is someone else's house. Either a useless NPC or a second rival.
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  #647    
Old August 10th, 2013, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyhugg View Post
Achievement Get: First map!

Ok, that was a lie. This isn't my first. But it IS the first one that isn't the worst thing ever! This isn't for a game, I just wanted practice on my mapping. so, critiques? Be as harsh as needed!

Spoiler:


The house on the hill is the Player's house, Red roof is main rival and Green roof is someone else's house. Either a useless NPC or a second rival.
You should move the PokeCenter on the tileset so it doesn't overlay the path. There are a couple shadow issues with the tress in the upper right area. Im always goint to say this, I dont like 3rd Generation tiles, But I like the setup. I think you just need some decoration. Also bring the trees in the upper right down to behind the house. there is too much space there.
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  #648    
Old August 10th, 2013, 07:00 PM
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Thanks! Like I said, this isn't for a game, it's just practice. Idk what's up with the shadow issues, thats a tileset error. Moving the Pokecenter is a problem, there's no real room for it anywhere... And yes, the trees are pretty high. Let me fix that.
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  #649    
Old August 10th, 2013, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyhugg View Post
Thanks! Like I said, this isn't for a game, it's just practice. Idk what's up with the shadow issues, thats a tileset error. Moving the Pokecenter is a problem, there's no real room for it anywhere... And yes, the trees are pretty high. Let me fix that.
Compiling a tileset specifically for things are good. It stays more organized, and would load faster. I have a tileset made for the starter town, one for the first 3 routs, and one made for the second town. Not including indoors. It may be difficult, but I like it this way so I can find the tiles I need easily.
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  #650    
Old August 10th, 2013, 08:22 PM
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Move the pokecenter up by one tile.
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