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  #751    
Old October 24th, 2013 (03:28 PM).
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@Khkramer: I know Littleroot town doesn't have many (if any) special features, but there are still a few things you should always pay attention to.

Let's start with the house on the left, it's in front of the path. I'd think it'd be much better if you move it a few tiles to the left, and place on the same line as the other one.

Speaking of the other one, it kinda bothers me that it isn't connected to the path.

The lighter patches of grass don't make much sense to me as well, they only look nice under the sign, maybe you should try replacing the dirt path with it. the gardens bother me as well, I'm not too fond of those flowers.

Hope this helps you!

I've been away from RMXP for a little while now, can I get some feedback on this simple map?
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  #752    
Old October 24th, 2013 (09:16 PM).
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Quote originally posted by elarmasecreta:
Hope this helps you!

I've been away from RMXP for a little while now, can I get some feedback on this simple map?
This map works fine for what it is, though I would make the middle and left grass patches less square. Just my opinion. One important thing you should note is that the mountain tile terrain, which is supposed to go ONLY on top of mountains, is being used in this map as a walkable tile. You have a sand path on the mountain edge, but then the rocky terrain, you're not suppose to use tops of mountains as walkable tiles, it looks sloppy and just... not good. If you look at any Gamefreak map, you'll notice that they never use it.

Just a thing to keep in mind, other than that, good map!
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  #753    
Old October 26th, 2013 (08:03 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Obix:
Good eye haha on the grass but what do you mean which trees?
i think hes referring to the ones on the right handside?
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  #754    
Old November 4th, 2013 (02:33 PM). Edited November 4th, 2013 by Vau.
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I love using the 3rd gen tiles so I tried to make a sort-of-jungle with many plants, a river and few waypoints to remember so the player is encouraged to get lost.

P.S. The water is not deep so the player can walk right through the river

P.P.S The upper parts of the trees next to the bottom path will be handled by events. That's why there is nothing to see right now.
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  #755    
Old November 5th, 2013 (08:08 AM).
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I'd appreciate some feedback on this marsh map I made yesterday. I know it isn't perfect yet, I'm just trying to find out what to change/add.

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  #756    
Old November 5th, 2013 (12:48 PM).
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Quote originally posted by YoungDante:
I'd appreciate some feedback on this marsh map I made yesterday. I know it isn't perfect yet, I'm just trying to find out what to change/add.

Attachment 70103
8/10
Really good map.

Underwater trees though? C'mon man. Replace them with rotten logs, or real underwater vegetation.
I also think you might want to use something other than a pond to block the player on the middle island. Either that, or at least use the same water tiles as the rest of the marsh!
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  #757    
Old November 5th, 2013 (01:07 PM).
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Quote originally posted by Vau:
I love using the 3rd gen tiles so I tried to make a sort-of-jungle with many plants, a river and few waypoints to remember so the player is encouraged to get lost. :P

P.S. The water is not deep so the player can walk right through the river

P.P.S The upper parts of the trees next to the bottom path will be handled by events. That's why there is nothing to see right now.
Completely un-playable. There's no real sense of direction in the map, and there's a lot of random placement. Remember, you're not trying to create a pretty image, you're trying to create a level. You should work with a smaller space and consider how your player is going to explore it. Here there is a large expanse of nothingness, with no direction, and nothing to see or do really. The grass doesn't pose as a challenge since you can avoid most of it. On top of that there is a mass of tile errors and tiles that don't mix.

I advise studying map layouts, and then drawing up your own. Playability is key. Then go and map with your own project afterwards. I actually can't really give you a rating, given that it's unplayable, and what I rate on is playability.

Quote originally posted by YoungDante:
I'd appreciate some feedback on this marsh map I made yesterday. I know it isn't perfect yet, I'm just trying to find out what to change/add.

Attachment 70103
Not too bad, but there's a lot of things that need some work. The first things that do jump out at me are the underwater trees. So I'd follow tImE's advice on that front. The second is the use of tall grass underwater, I suggest not using those kind of "action" tiles out of the player's range, it's distracting and makes the player think that they can actually go down there. Also not that your underwater trees would still be sticking out at that level by two or three tiles in height. I would also like to suggest that you put some detail in empty parts of the map like where the original path is on the bottom. Some trees or grass to train in would be useful here, same goes for the top somewhat. Also remember to insert your tiles properly, the sign on the top seems to be fuzzy, probably because it is out of the grid in the tileset by one pixel.

The tall grass in the water is also a little randomly placed, I would suggest doing more clumps of it together than random dotting as is seen in some cases here. I think as a player it would be annoying to go from the top right island back to the island in the middle of the map. I would suggest adding some sort of log tiles which allow you to hop back to the lower island, and then place a ledge so that the player can't just bypass the normal route up to the upper island.

As a whole the map isn't too bad, just avoid some small walking areas too. There are some cases where there's a one tile gap, which isn't usually too favourable. A bit of organization could go a long way here, but until then you're at about a 6/10. Nice ideas and presentation however.
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  #758    
Old November 5th, 2013 (11:29 PM). Edited November 5th, 2013 by Worldslayer608.
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  #759    
Old November 7th, 2013 (04:10 PM).
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Frankly, it looks fantastic. It has an obvious "level-like" design that clearly conveys the intended flow of the player from one side of the map to the other, and both allows for uninhibited travel as is common in the early game as well as forcing you to traverse some grass. It also has several "off the beaten track" areas that make for interesting exploration options. The only concern I have is that the gap between the trees and the tops of the cliffs is large enough that players might think they can traverse it. This could be intentional but I'm inclined to think otherwise. Also, most players wouldn't notice, but the stairs defy physics. With a vertical cliff like that, the stairs should be around 50% longer to account for Pythagoras, otherwise you have a stair-shaped ladder there. I do like the tiles you have used here, both individually and as a whole. They have a cohesive palette and work well together, and I note you've used little tiles like flowers etc to fill in details in otherwise empty areas, which is quite appealing. Over all, a very good map. 9.5/10.
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  #760    
Old November 7th, 2013 (04:39 PM).
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New map made by me. Its Route 2 of my game Pokemon 0/1. I really like the map and I think its probably one of my best maps so far so I'd really like to see some feedback on it. Thanks!

Spoiler:


There are some tile errors which I'm well aware of so please don't point them out.
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  #761    
Old November 8th, 2013 (08:52 PM).
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Since you said not to point out minor tile errors, I won't. A bit more toward the major side, however, is that your cliffs seem to disappear when they hit the trees. You seem to have the right idea in the middle, just south of the tree stumps, but just west of there you have a flat mass of trees even though a cliff should be running through the middle of it. Though the (top of the) cliff does reappear shortly afterwards, it disappears again as it continues west. Same for the other cliff just below it, and the one in the far northeast. I'd suggest erasing the trees from those general vicinities, drawing in the cliffs, then patching the trees back in to fit properly. Also, the grass in the northeast corner doesn't really mesh well with the dark soil.

That said, the actual layout of the map is really nice. I gather, being a Route 2, it's early one, so the path doesn't require a heap of complexity. In saying that, the direction of the path does well to make the player believe it is winding, when in actual fact it is (mostly) very linear. It's a very aesthetically pleasing effect. I could also be mistaken, but it appears there aren't any trainers on the eastern half of the route. You might consider shifting some of those earlier on to the later, emptier areas.

Overall though, it's very nice. It's a pleasure to look, despite the few flaws it has. 8/10.
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  #762    
Old November 16th, 2013 (10:20 PM).
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So I tried making a forest, and this is apparently what I think a forest looks like...please help, I almost didn't show it because it was just so bad...
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  #763    
Old November 16th, 2013 (10:42 PM).
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Red lines are paths(dirt or grass, it doesn't matter), black is tree lines, blue is ponds, and green is for a house/forest shrine/event npcs.
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  #764    
Old November 16th, 2013 (11:04 PM).
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Quote originally posted by lauerolus:


Red lines are paths(dirt or grass, it doesn't matter), black is tree lines, blue is ponds, and green is for a house/forest shrine/event npcs.
that's just fantastic, thank you, I really appreciate it as I realize it must have been a hassle to come up with an idea, I know that was the problem I had at least...

anyway, with that I could probably actually make something decent instead of what I made before, I also like how it looks like a charmander
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  #765    
Old November 18th, 2013 (04:39 AM).
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Quote originally posted by lauerolus:


Red lines are paths(dirt or grass, it doesn't matter), black is tree lines, blue is ponds, and green is for a house/forest shrine/event npcs.
why would you draw on someone's map, I personally think that is kinda disrespectful. You also Told him what to do, not suggested ways to fix it in my opinion..

Anyways, to the map creator the map is too big and its bad, try using a smaller canvas and make it feel more natural, remember the map doesn't have to be huge to be amazing. Try looking at others maps and give it another shot.
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  #766    
Old November 18th, 2013 (09:17 AM).
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Quote originally posted by KingCharizard:
why would you draw on someone's map, I personally think that is kinda disrespectful. You also Told him what to do, not suggested ways to fix it in my opinion..

Anyways, to the map creator the map is too big and its bad, try using a smaller canvas and make it feel more natural, remember the map doesn't have to be huge to be amazing. Try looking at others maps and give it another shot.
It's a good way of diagramming ways of fixing or improving a map. It's not disrespectful at all, especially since he didn't ruin the original copy...
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  #767    
Old November 18th, 2013 (10:40 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Atomic Reactor:
It's a good way of diagramming ways of fixing or improving a map. It's not disrespectful at all, especially since he didn't ruin the original copy...
It is telling him what to do, though.

My advice, which comes from practically no experience at all of map-making, is to halve the size of the map and try again. Imagine how tiring it would be for the player to have to walk through your map as it currently is.

Forests are known for having trees in them, not wide open areas, so restrict any "open" area to maybe a maximum of 8 tiles across and make sure you fill it with interesting details (a lone tree, tall grass, a pond, trainers, whatever). Keep marked paths to a minimum (the ground should be mostly grass and tall grass). Have multiple paths branching off from the "main" one, which itself can do quite a lot of winding around to make the forest seems larger than it really is.

It's good to study other forest maps to see how they work. Viridian Forest, Ilex Forest and so forth.
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  #768    
Old November 18th, 2013 (10:51 AM).
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Drawing on someones map is a good way to give them a bit of representation of what you think they should do. It may come off as "telling them" what to do, but there is such a thing as free will. Just because someone drew on your map does not mean you have to do what they say you should do in order to fix a map. In fact, it is one of the clearest ways to describe how to fix a map, and it still leaves the options open ended.

Take the blue highlights for example. There are so many things you could do in that spot with water that drawing on the map does not outline. There is plenty of design space, even with suggestive doodles on a map.

That being said, Maruno is right.

Start off by shrinking the map down. The smaller the map, the easier it is to cover in detail, as strange as that may sound. A lot of people think you need a natural feel for a map through vast landscaping, which is not entirely true, it is actually often times the opposite.

1. Shrink the map size.
2. Tighten your paths up.
3. Grid your map off and work cell by cell. Make each cell the size of game screen.

1 is going to let you condense everything down and ultimately give you less space to focus on which will pain a more concise idea of a forest with a more natural feel.

2 is going to allow you to provide flow through designating a movement path without allowing the player to stray necessarily. You want the player to be able to see a clear path with borders or restricted space at all times. If you are looking at a game screen of a player on a map and it is empty without any restricted space, you have done something wrong.

3 is going to allow you to add intricate detail that the player will see at all times. When you provide a natural feel to each individual cell, it will ultimately give the overall map the same natural feel to it and when you zoom out to the big picture, your overall map will reflect such detail on a larger scale.
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  #769    
Old November 18th, 2013 (10:54 AM).
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Quote originally posted by KingCharizard:
why would you draw on someone's map, I personally think that is kinda disrespectful. You also Told him what to do, not suggested ways to fix it in my opinion..

Anyways, to the map creator the map is too big and its bad, try using a smaller canvas and make it feel more natural, remember the map doesn't have to be huge to be amazing. Try looking at others maps and give it another shot.
I don't find it disrespectful to me, I pretty much said iunno what a forest looks like, how can i make this better, and he gave me a suggestion - it was helpful since I had no real idea of what i wanted it to look like, but seeing what he was going for gave me some ideas

I agree it was probably too large of a map, it started off ambitious, but it was too big to tackle :x

Quote originally posted by Maruno:
My advice, which comes from practically no experience at all of map-making, is to halve the size of the map and try again. Imagine how tiring it would be for the player to have to walk through your map as it currently is.

Forests are known for having trees in them, not wide open areas, so restrict any "open" area to maybe a maximum of 8 tiles across and make sure you fill it with interesting details (a lone tree, tall grass, a pond, trainers, whatever). Keep marked paths to a minimum (the ground should be mostly grass and tall grass). Have multiple paths branching off from the "main" one, which itself can do quite a lot of winding around to make the forest seems larger than it really is.

It's good to study other forest maps to see how they work. Viridian Forest, Ilex Forest and so forth.
yes, it is very obnoxiously large, and the space I have isnt used to its full potential, making a maze of sorts with dozens of possible paths to explore would be the best choice to make the make feel like a big forest, while remaining very small and manageable in actual size

Spoiler:
Quote originally posted by ЩѻƦḽᶑʂḽдƴƹƦ™:
Start off by shrinking the map down. The smaller the map, the easier it is to cover in detail, as strange as that may sound. A lot of people think you need a natural feel for a map through vast landscaping, which is not entirely true, it is actually often times the opposite.

1. Shrink the map size.
2. Tighten your paths up.
3. Grid your map off and work cell by cell. Make each cell the size of game screen.

1 is going to let you condense everything down and ultimately give you less space to focus on which will pain a more concise idea of a forest with a more natural feel.

2 is going to allow you to provide flow through designating a movement path without allowing the player to stray necessarily. You want the player to be able to see a clear path with borders or restricted space at all times. If you are looking at a game screen of a player on a map and it is empty without any restricted space, you have done something wrong.

3 is going to allow you to add intricate detail that the player will see at all times. When you provide a natural feel to each individual cell, it will ultimately give the overall map the same natural feel to it and when you zoom out to the big picture, your overall map will reflect such detail on a larger scale.

That was exactly what I was planning on doing, thank you for your straight-forward advice

Thank you all for your suggestions, I think I can actually make a decent forest now!
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Old November 18th, 2013 (01:31 PM).
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Quote originally posted by KingCharizard:
why would you draw on someone's map, I personally think that is kinda disrespectful. You also Told him what to do, not suggested ways to fix it in my opinion..

Anyways, to the map creator the map is too big and its bad, try using a smaller canvas and make it feel more natural, remember the map doesn't have to be huge to be amazing. Try looking at others maps and give it another shot.
While I kind of agree with you, as a matter of fact, this is a Map REVIEW thread, and while gently nudging people in the right direction is a good idea, actually slapping them in the face with something real, they are able to get an understanding of what others find good-looking, is a better way of going about it.

We aren't here to be nice to each other (even if we do give positive feedback!).
We ARE here to teach each other, and sometimes, being super respectful and non-confrontative is just a waste of time.

I agree that just "giving the answer away" isn't the best way to be educated, the message board way of communicating is too slowpaced and limited to actually push him into learning stuff by himself. So instead of gently nudging him towards something good (which might take 25~ something replies), giving him an answer straight away, and letting him analyze it, makes it possible to help as much as possible in a short reply.

EDIT: I got Snip'd by Maruno and ЩѻƦḽᶑʂḽдƴƹƦ™. Dammit. XD
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  #771    
Old November 20th, 2013 (07:41 PM). Edited November 20th, 2013 by Radical Raptr.
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I took everyone's great advice, and I think I actually made a decent forest map - its far better than my last one, and I like all the little things I've done


One thing I'm working on is trying to make the light not appear on the trees, but appear everywhere else it's placed - its an aesthetic choice that I want to do but as it is now I feel it's not that big a deal - that being said it might be better as a fog, but w/e
I have yet to add some actual events on the map, but you wouldnt be able to see them even if I had anyway

Also, I havent added grass patches because I wanted the layout to be solid before I bothered adding patches, but there will be some
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Old November 21st, 2013 (02:13 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Saving Raven:
I took everyone's great advice, and I think I actually made a decent forest map - its far better than my last one, and I like all the little things I've done


One thing I'm working on is trying to make the light not appear on the trees, but appear everywhere else it's placed - its an aesthetic choice that I want to do but as it is now I feel it's not that big a deal - that being said it might be better as a fog, but w/e
I have yet to add some actual events on the map, but you wouldnt be able to see them even if I had anyway

Also, I havent added grass patches because I wanted the layout to be solid before I bothered adding patches, but there will be some
Yeah, this is a fantastic improvement to your last map.
You have a clearly defined area which is the actual map, you have made nice use of displaced treelines to create a labyrinth and I really love the fact that it is round in shape. It is quite rare.

The lake and the little dirt hole to in the bottom areas look very out of place though.
If you want a lake, I recommend you use the "still water" tiles instead of "ocean tiles" and you shouldn't be using a sand shore either. Forest lakes doesn't have sand. They have mud, or simply land as shore.

Next, you should add ledges and wild grass to improve the labyrinth. Make the player have to choose between wild grass or trainer battles at a Y-crossing, and add ledges to try and make the trip from the entrance to the exit as long as possible, without taking away the freedom of exploring. Dont make just one long corridor, but make it so you can't roam absolutely free.

You should allso make the map 4 or so tiles bigger, in every direction, so you can fix the really straight edges of the the forest. The north-, east- and west-most treelines are super straight and doesn't look good. Just make the map slightly bigger and make them rounder, or just less straight.

Finally, you need some more decoration, like flowers, fallen branches, mushrooms or grass patches to make it more interesting.

As a final map, I give this 5/10.

But, it has the potential to become a 9/10.
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Old November 21st, 2013 (06:51 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Saving Raven:
Spoiler:
I took everyone's great advice, and I think I actually made a decent forest map - its far better than my last one, and I like all the little things I've done


One thing I'm working on is trying to make the light not appear on the trees, but appear everywhere else it's placed - its an aesthetic choice that I want to do but as it is now I feel it's not that big a deal - that being said it might be better as a fog, but w/e
I have yet to add some actual events on the map, but you wouldnt be able to see them even if I had anyway

Also, I havent added grass patches because I wanted the layout to be solid before I bothered adding patches, but there will be some
I would like to state that this is only your second map using my grid technique... and the level of improvement from the last one you posted which did not use it, for both this map and the other one you have shown me have improved drastically just from using the grid technique. It is pretty sweet to see the disparity between not using it and using it.

As I told you over Skype, I think the map is looking really good. I like what you have going on with the water and even the pit. I would probably skip the dirt in the pit though, and just do grass with tall grass filling it in.

As for the water, I was pretty distracted last night whilst stuffing my face with pizza, and I did not notice that you used a sea tile for the water. It should be still water, there is no reason a breeze would be strong enough to create waves in a forest like this. As tImE said, you could skip the sand. While I personally like it, I would probably just use a ledge with the sand path tile leading up to it over the ocean beach sand.

In the top right of the map, where the ground indents and goes down, pull that up and have a cliff going up that you cannot walk on. That pit looks funky. Adding more of a mountainous terrain going up mixes it up a bit and will just look better I think.

tImE's advice about the sides being too straight is also pretty spot on. I did not notice how long it was last night, once again because I was distracted, and you want to try and reduce those long straight edges of trees. believe I talked about that with you on Skype. Try to reduce these straight lines to no more than a single grid length in the respective direction. When I was showing you my map on Skype's screen share, it went 2 grid lengths in, but one of the grid lengths was broken up with a fence and flowers... you just didn't see it because I "accidentally" deleted the map

When you start filling in the detail tiles I want you to apply the grid technique again. It will make your detail uniform throughout the map when you zoom out to look at the big picture, giving you both a natural feel as well as a high level of detail that does not look like complete ****.

Also, while you are widening the map, try and kill the number of times the player has to hit the up/down and left/right arrow keys to navigate some of the roundness of the forest. If you break the map into four quadrants you will see that some areas are really going to cause the player to zig zag which means repeatedly tapping the arrows in one direction and then the other. I would try to reduce that a bit. It looks like they kind of have to do it 4, 5, or even 6 times in some places. I would try to keep it to 3 or 4 and sometimes 5 if absolutely needed. This can be reduced by simply widening some, not all, areas of the path.

As a final note, I would try to half the number of light spaces. They are abundant, and they look great and all, but they are close together which can desensitize the player to them, which will lead to a lack of appreciation.

That all being said, man what an improvement your maps have made. I know I keep saying that, but most people do not make such quick improvements with their maps. Good work man.
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  #774    
Old November 21st, 2013 (08:25 AM). Edited November 21st, 2013 by Radical Raptr.
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Quote originally posted by tImE:
Yeah, this is a fantastic improvement to your last map.
You have a clearly defined area which is the actual map, you have made nice use of displaced treelines to create a labyrinth and I really love the fact that it is round in shape. It is quite rare.

The lake and the little dirt hole to in the bottom areas look very out of place though.
If you want a lake, I recommend you use the "still water" tiles instead of "ocean tiles" and you shouldn't be using a sand shore either. Forest lakes doesn't have sand. They have mud, or simply land as shore.

Next, you should add ledges and wild grass to improve the labyrinth. Make the player have to choose between wild grass or trainer battles at a Y-crossing, and add ledges to try and make the trip from the entrance to the exit as long as possible, without taking away the freedom of exploring. Dont make just one long corridor, but make it so you can't roam absolutely free.

You should allso make the map 4 or so tiles bigger, in every direction, so you can fix the really straight edges of the the forest. The north-, east- and west-most treelines are super straight and doesn't look good. Just make the map slightly bigger and make them rounder, or just less straight.

Finally, you need some more decoration, like flowers, fallen branches, mushrooms or grass patches to make it more interesting.

As a final map, I give this 5/10.

But, it has the potential to become a 9/10.
It's far from finished because its strictly just the layout, I didnt bother with little details because I'm going to have to change it as you and ʂḽдƴƹƦ just said, widening paths and added 4 tiles on each side, but yes I'll be sure to add that, and I may change how the hole looks, its supposed to be something specific like that, so instead of just doing that I'll mix it up and do what I originally planned with it - It's going to be part of a secret/hidden area

I see what you mean with the little beach, I could make it look like dirt, or would that just look weird? as for the water I'll swap it for still water, I only chose it cuz it didnt have any border on it but that might not be a big deal

as for ledges I was planning on swapping some trees for the ledges but I was hesitant to do so because it's supposed to be a labyrinth kind of thing where you're supposed to wander around aimlessly and get lost in it, but is not soooo big that you wont literally get lost, adding ledges would look sort of out of place or defeat its purpose - but I was thinking of making the 2 possible paths at the fork in the road being one is thick grass, or a bunch of trainers

Quote originally posted by ЩѻƦḽᶑʂḽдƴƹƦ™:
In the top right of the map, where the ground indents and goes down, pull that up and have a cliff going up that you cannot walk on. That pit looks funky. Adding more of a mountainous terrain going up mixes it up a bit and will just look better I think.
I agree with everything else (as it is mostly agreeing with tImE) but what do you mean by that, hahaha

Quote originally posted by ЩѻƦḽᶑʂḽдƴƹƦ™:
As a final note, I would try to half the number of light spaces. They are abundant, and they look great and all, but they are close together which can desensitize the player to them, which will lead to a lack of appreciation.
also, in-game it doesnt look as cluttered, but I'll see what I can do with it
=========================================================
Spoiler:

I took a lot of tImE's advice and some ideas from ʂḽдƴƹƦ and came up with a pretty decent map, I fleshed out my idea for the hidden area, rounded out the map, and made new water just for the forest hahaha
Overall I like how it came out - the bare patches are designated for areas where there will be trainers, and it seems to be pretty balanced as far as |grass:trainer| ratio
I'm also making new light spots since the last one wasn't so good - other than that I think this map is a keeper, thanks for the help! :D
(as far as the squares with bright light, it is a layering issue I addressed with events for lack of enough layers, lol)
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  #775    
Old November 21st, 2013 (08:14 PM).
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Hey guys. Here's my region remapped so far. (Warning kinda big) Let me know what you think! I give you, Zela:

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