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  #1    
Old February 18th, 2014 (04:40 PM). Edited February 18th, 2014 by Controversial?.
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Now I put 'good' in inverted commas because it's incredibly subjective, but I kind of want your guys' opinions on something;

In your opinion, what makes a hack good?

What makes a run-of-the-mill Pokémon ROM hack rise to HotM/HotY standards, and what is it that makes some hacks in the Showcase stand out so much from the rest?

And speaking of which, what would you say the 'standard' for a HotM/HotY is? What are your criteria for making a good hack? Would it need to have things like changed tiles? Sprites? ASM edits such as day and night features? 4th, 5th and 6th Gen Pokémon? The Fairy-type added (god forbid)? Or do you think that a 'vanilla' hack with few changes outside of maps and scripts could hypothetically be as great as a HotY candidate on gameplay and story alone?

Now, this is purely subjective, but I would like to hear opinions on this subject matter, as I haven't seen many people confront this question before. Discuss!
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Old February 18th, 2014 (05:21 PM). Edited February 18th, 2014 by Near~.
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Well This is something I've been wanting to talk about well here it is...
A well done hack or HoTM or HoTY Has to have a really good story line not just any new out of the blue will always work... But For example I will take Pokemon Inmortal by Javi
Continues the story after Ruby...
But I think mostly now for Hacks all that matters is the graphics and ASM routines...
Sure those make a hack worth being the HoTM or Hoty
But I think a truly good hack can be made with the simple ROM base and with some decent ASM.
Well In all the hack would now definitely need New tiles for eye candy, New ASM routines,Day and Night as well as seasons, other than that just better maps and scripts...
Here is some spam(A hack that will for sure get Hoty)
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Old February 18th, 2014 (07:13 PM).
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Quote originally posted by SynBit:
Well This is something I've been wanting to talk about well here it is...
A well done hack or HoTM or HoTY Has to have a really good story line not just any new out of the blue will always work... But For example I will take Pokemon Inmortal by Javi
Continues the story after Ruby...
But I think mostly now for Hacks all that matters is the graphics and ASM routines...
Sure those make a hack worth being the HoTM or Hoty
But I think a truly good hack can be made with the simple ROM base and with some decent ASM.
Well In all the hack would now definitely need New tiles for eye candy, New ASM routines,Day and Night as well as seasons, other than that just better maps and scripts...
Here is some spam(A hack that will for sure get Hoty)[SPOILER]http://wahackforo.com/t-25526/pokemon-inmortal[/SPOILER]
This pretty much sums it up.

There still is some room for hacks without any ASM at all, but most people can't conjure up sufficiently elaborate script schemes to compensate.

You'd definitely need new tiles, but I think animated tiles are becoming extremely important.
New features never before implemented, kind of like DJG's Fire-Grass-Water Rock-Paper-Scissors thing.

Region expansions and Dex expansions are bonus points.

Hackmon will detriment your hack most of the time.

A compelling story is important as well. The Ruby Destiny series had a whole backstory to align the games.
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Old February 19th, 2014 (12:34 PM).
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Tiles are everything for me. If a hack has tiles that're too vibrant I can't play it.

I don't actually mind fakemon if theyre sprited alright.
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Old February 20th, 2014 (04:27 PM).
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To me, if a hack has an interesting storyline, engaging gameplay, good sidequests and creative events, I wouldn't care if the hack had default tiles. I've played lots of hacks with gorgeous graphics but hardly much of a story, which in my opinion is worse than the former.
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Old February 20th, 2014 (04:42 PM).
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It needs to be unique. It can't just be a hack that has a completely similar line as the original games. They have to add completely new places and combine things to desire for everyone.
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Old February 22nd, 2014 (10:45 AM).
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A hack without a storyline and scripts Isn't a hack to me.

The scripts gives the live of the hack, a hack with good scripts is a good hack, no need a good graphics to me.
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Old February 23rd, 2014 (12:10 AM).
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Quote originally posted by ~G0LD!:
A hack without a storyline and scripts Isn't a hack to me.
Hack without scripts is pretty much impossible... you wouldn't even get your starter, you wouldn't get any items, nothing =D
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Old February 23rd, 2014 (12:23 AM).
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I also want to know it, why my hack johto league showdown not getting famous? Is it because i havent released anything or the graphics is not good?
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Old February 23rd, 2014 (01:01 AM).
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Personally, to me, storyline and game design/gameplay matter the most. I don't care if a hack has good graphics, if the storyline is some fanfiction that looks like a 3 year old thought up, and the level curve makes me grind for hours on turbo speed, then I'm not going to play it.

Quote originally posted by MegaIndianCharizardX:
I also want to know it, why my hack johto league showdown not getting famous? Is it because i havent released anything or the graphics is not good?
Maybe it's that "My hack needs to be famous" attitude of yours that's the problem. Why worry about being famous? Rom hacking should be for your personal enjoyment, not because you want your hack to be the next Light Platinum.
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Old February 23rd, 2014 (01:14 AM).
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Quote originally posted by HidoranBlaze:
Maybe it's that "My hack needs to be famous" attitude of yours that's the problem. Why worry about being famous? Rom hacking should be for your personal enjoyment, not because you want your hack to be the next Light Platinum.
I am not worried for it not being famous, i am making it for personal enjoyment, but i personally have a feeling that my hack is going to be an average one in front of other hacks here.
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Old February 23rd, 2014 (01:52 AM).
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First and foremost, for me, would be storyline and how well it's incorporated into the hack. The story has to be different and original, and the ROM hack has to follow through accordingly. Second is mapping. All maps that you have in your hack should be well-made. Don't rush when creating them; take all the time you need. Last would have to be graphics. When developing a ROM hack, you should try your best to replace all default graphics--including titlescreen, tilesets, sprites, and overworlds--with customized ones as much as you possibly can. This isn't totally necessary, but it is recommended. :P
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Old February 23rd, 2014 (09:05 AM).
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I disagree with the consensus here that "graphics" or "tiles" matter...

FireRed or Emerald made bajillions of dollars with the tiles they have. it matters not how I change them, the game is still playable. the world is too dependant on pretties. Im a utilitarian. I enjoy the games for their gameplay and content. as long as it looks good its ok... it does not have to be super wow pretty to be a good game. playing games is about escaping reality into the world of the game. a believable comprehensive story is all you need.

and as far as ASM being mandatory... naa... if the story needs elements that change how the game works than you need asm... thats it. asm hacking is for changing how the game work, its not an element of the game. it is for creating your stories. its a tool.

and scripting can make TONS of things happen in your story without changing how the game thinks. for example, I recently made a pogo stick... who would have though a pogo stick could be an aquirable item in pokemon... but it works... with a little scripting creativity you can do ALOT.

people play games for the story and the adventure. and thats how to make a good hack. if the HOTY contest as a fashion show showing off how good a graphic artist I am... than it means nothing to win, cause Im not a graphic artist, im a hacker. and if the guy with the most alterations to how the game thinks wins... than someone submit a pacman game based on pokemon engine, cause thats ALOT of changes... but it doesnt make it a good game or an original design.

Story, adventure, enjoyability... thats all that matters
Thats all ive got to say about that...
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Old February 23rd, 2014 (09:14 AM).
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Apparently, it's super hard difficulty, every Pokémon, and like 1 other thing changed.

Or just being Liquid Crystal.
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Old February 23rd, 2014 (01:24 PM).
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Quote originally posted by UltraMew:
Apparently, it's super hard difficulty, every Pokémon, and like 1 other thing changed.

Or just being Liquid Crystal.
This brings up something I don't really like about hacks. It seems that the difficulty curve is always higher than it needs to be, where you need to train a lot extra against wild pokemon just to be at the same level. The worst ones are the ones that don't tell you beforehand; I often end up cheating in rare candies just to catch up to the common trainers. It's really annoying. I know the pokemon games seem too easy to some people, but I personally LIKE easy. :p
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Old February 24th, 2014 (10:23 AM).
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Quote originally posted by UltraMew:
Apparently, it's super hard difficulty
Are we looking at the same Dark way of Raising fans' "enjoyment"?
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Old February 24th, 2014 (01:28 PM).
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Quote originally posted by MegaIndianCharizardX:
I am not worried for it not being famous, i am making it for personal enjoyment, but i personally have a feeling that my hack is going to be an average one in front of other hacks here.

If you really want to make it for your own enjoyment or hacking as a hobby, who cares if it gets 'famous' or not? If you're happy with what you've done with your hack, nothing else matters man =)
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Old February 24th, 2014 (08:31 PM).
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Rather than take a ROM hack and compare it to others out there, I find it best to look at an individual hack's goals and see how well it achieves those. Because, at the end of the day, no two hacks are meant to directly compete with one another. Liquid Crystal and CrystalDust have different goals in mind, for instance, and should be appreciated separately for how they go about with them.

Overhaul hacks like Light Platinum, Flora Sky, Dark Rising, Ruby Destiny, and Snakewood may have the similar broad goal in mind of making the best original story. What's important is that they are evaluated on how well the hacks are pulled off. In the case of these hacks, people tend to agree that they all succeed at that.

Now, if someone were to create a hack that had a completely original story with new graphics, songs, Pokémon and whatnot, but you don't think they did that great job at implementing it, would you still consider it 'good'? There really is no checkbox for what makes a hack good besides succeeding at the intended goals and making the overall package come together nicely. This latter part is completely subjective, as it should be.
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Old February 26th, 2014 (07:58 AM).
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A well done story, or possibly something that has never been tried before. Graphics doesn't make the hack, the gameplay matters the most. The graphics are there for a bonus. If there are different musics and other things, it seems to appeal more. For Example: Pokemon Vega.
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Old February 27th, 2014 (01:35 AM).
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I personally find it's super sad is that almost no makers of hacks do have custom music in their hacks. And I mean music that actually sounds balanced, harmonic and matches the game. Too sad I'm one of the very little amount of people that do this and really care about music. If makers make their own Assembler Routines (which is pretty advanced stuff) why don't they do other advanced stuff (like music)? It's true there is very little information out there but people should realize that music modding is not as simple as graphics. You mostly need to learn all the stuff by yourself to even understand how everything works to get something decent going and this is where most people give up.
Other people (although not many) just say 'who cares bout music, you'll mute the sound anyway'. Ugh, I really hate hearing this. Am the only one that think that music/sound just completes something visible? Imagine other commercial movies (TLoR) or games (Skyrim) without the music. Wouldn't they be super cold without emotions?
That's my reasons why I think custom music is important and this is the thing many hacks that'd be really awesome lack off.
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Old February 27th, 2014 (08:56 AM).
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Quote originally posted by ipatix:
I personally find it's super sad is that almost no makers of hacks do have custom music in their hacks. And I mean music that actually sounds balanced, harmonic and matches the game. Too sad I'm one of the very little amount of people that do this and really care about music. If makers make their own Assembler Routines (which is pretty advanced stuff) why don't they do other advanced stuff (like music)? It's true there is very little information out there but people should realize that music modding is not as simple as graphics. You mostly need to learn all the stuff by yourself to even understand how everything works to get something decent going and this is where most people give up.
Other people (although not many) just say 'who cares bout music, you'll mute the sound anyway'. Ugh, I really hate hearing this. Am the only one that think that music/sound just completes something visible? Imagine other commercial movies (TLoR) or games (Skyrim) without the music. Wouldn't they be super cold without emotions?
That's my reasons why I think custom music is important and this is the thing many hacks that'd be really awesome lack off.
not to discredit your reasoning... but you contridict yourself. You say people should all do this. Then say its really hard... the fact is most people are nor musically creative. They can come up with a good story and learn to script and rearrange tiles easily but music is very hard and if you cant make music, you cant insert music. If you wish to help hackers put music in hacks, create some tutorials explaining all the things youve learned. music hacking takes an artistic ear and mind. Its a whole different way of thinking to write music. Thats y most CANT do it... i wish i could wrote good tunes for my hacks. But i cannot. I can write lyrics all day but the tune and music... nope...
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Old February 28th, 2014 (04:18 PM).
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Yeah you're right that my reasoning isn't that clear. The thing I ment was something else: If you put a lot of hard work into a good hack, music is a neat feature to have although it's hard. Don't be afraid of something being hard. The thing about music is that there is not a very straight forward way to do it and therefor tutorials aren't ideal. Best thing is not find out your own way (like doing ASM researching).

But anyway I'm really expecting too much from people since I don't even remeber myself which nasty stuff I've done to find stuff out and make this or that work.

For advanced hackers all the things I can refer for learning music hacking is reading this document up and down until you get crazy:
http://www.romhacking.net/documents/462/
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Old March 10th, 2014 (04:25 PM).
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This thread is really good for me since I'm developing a hack, I love to see what people want Here's what I think makes a rom hack good:
-Unique Story
-Interesting Characters + Plot
-Pokemon from all 3 generations, maybe even some from 4 or 5
-A little bit of a challenge (Not super easy)
-Immerses you in the game (You feel like you connect to your character)
-New tiles are okay but they don't make a game, I prefer the original tiles for the hacks most of the time.
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  #24    
Old March 12th, 2014 (06:09 AM).
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Quote originally posted by MegaIndianCharizardX:
I am not worried for it not being famous, i am making it for personal enjoyment, but i personally have a feeling that my hack is going to be an average one in front of other hacks here.
You're making an anime of Johto. I'm sure you'll attract some anime fans. Just chill.
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Old March 15th, 2014 (11:21 PM).
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To me, it's gotta have easy-ish advancement, like I should know where to go when I need to go there, no hand holding, just like a solid directive at all times, if not just a name of a town or route. The worst times I've had playing Hacks, and even the actual games is when the game is super cryptic, or just doesn't tell you anything at all. If there are Fakemon, they have to look somewhat decent. Like better then I would make in half-an-hour. Tiles-wise, I don't really care about the tiles, as long as they aren't lazily done. Actually, here's what makes one good for me: A solid clear story line (Not like B/W/B2/W2, where you just go in a straight line the whole time), sprites that had time put into them, and a decent success rate, what I mean is that the game doesn't pull cheap gimmicks over your head. Just for an example, in Pokemon Fire Red: Generations, Misty's first Pokemon is a Luvdisc that knows Sweet Kiss, Lovely Kiss, Attract, and Water Pulse. That is the most annoying move set ever! You HAVE to one hit the thing or else you have to deal with luck through sleep, confusion, and infatuation! Anyways, rant over, Those things make a good game IMO!
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