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  #51    
Old July 12th, 2012, 12:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kylio_27 View Post
So what you're implying is that pokemon are inherently willing to lose their freedom to be prize fighters for these trainers, so fight back to test them and not to defend their freedom? Sounds like we have a pokemon apologist on our hands, folks.

But I'll humour you. Even if that were true, the universe still promotes violence, violence for entertainment. Such things shouldn't be promoted. It is a social paradigm that just reeks of hypocritical values.
Kind of like how a boxer follows a coach's instructions in order to become the best boxer. Considering they have the power to escape easily and they choose not to.

As far as violence promotion, no Pokemon die in the games, and there's no instances of children hurting their animals due to Pokemon that I know about. Do you know of any? Do you know of any dogfighters who took their inspiration from Pokemon?
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  #52    
Old July 12th, 2012, 12:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kylio_27 View Post
But I'll humour you. Even if that were true, the universe still promotes violence, violence for entertainment. Such things shouldn't be promoted. It is a social paradigm that just reeks of hypocritical values.
If it means that much to you then why are you complaining on a forum - rather than holding a sign outside of a Nintendo office?
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  #53    
Old July 12th, 2012, 12:40 AM
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A wild Pokemon battles a trainers Pokemon to see if the trainer is worth making a bond with.
Why not stop capturing pokemon and using them as tools for violent fight promotions? Let them be.

Quote:
Also its in Pokemon's nature to battle.
It's an animal's nature to fight and be violent in the wild, that doesn't mean we must institutionalize such violence and promote it as entertainment.

Last edited by kylio_27; July 12th, 2012 at 12:42 AM. Reason: Your double post has been automatically merged.
  #54    
Old July 12th, 2012, 12:43 AM
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Pokemon fighting isn't even violence. You wan't violence? Killers. The pokemon don't bleed, die, stab, shoot, kill, or anything of that such. So how is it violence? Their simply doing attacks based on their type. Like fire, water, grass, electric, rock, flying, ground, psychic, steel, dark, ghost, etc. The Pokemon only get's minorly injured but brought back to normal health as soon as the trainer get's it to a Pokemon center.

Thank you Skitty! Don't bring it here if your worried about it talk to GameFreak.


Last edited by ShinyUmbreon189; July 12th, 2012 at 12:44 AM. Reason: Your double post has been automatically merged.
  #55    
Old July 12th, 2012, 12:44 AM
kylio_27
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So to say trainers only expose Pokemon to fighting because they don't care is a fallacy, since that isn't even accurate in our universe, let alone another universe.
I didn't say that they only expose them to fighting, but that the whole idea of taking a being's nature and using it to promote further violence is stupid and destructive.
  #56    
Old July 12th, 2012, 12:44 AM
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Also a Pokemon never dies it only faints.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kylio_27 View Post
I didn't say that they only expose them to fighting, but that the whole idea of taking a being's nature and using it to promote further violence is stupid and destructive.
^What in the bloody hell do you think humans have been doing since we existed?!

We [humans] have always fought, murdered, cheated and etc. to advance and that is stupid and destructive.
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Last edited by Skitty1; July 12th, 2012 at 12:46 AM. Reason: Your double post has been automatically merged.
  #57    
Old July 12th, 2012, 12:47 AM
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I think we need to clarify your actual stance here, kylio.

Are you speaking from inside the Pokemon universe, that the universe itself is immoral and should be changed?

Or are you speaking from outside the Pokemon universe, that the affect the franchise has on the real world is negative and the franchise should change?
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  #58    
Old July 12th, 2012, 12:47 AM
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You don't see Pokemon walking around with weapons and explosives. So how are they violent and destructive. THE POKEMON WANTS TO BATTLE, WHAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND ABOUT THAT. THE TRAINER TAKES THE POKEMON TO A POKEMON CENTER AND IT'S STILL HAPPY.

  #59    
Old July 12th, 2012, 12:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skitty1
Also a Pokemon never dies it only faints.
Go tell that to the people of Lavender Town.

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  #60    
Old July 12th, 2012, 12:49 AM
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Kind of like how a boxer follows a coach's instructions in order to become the best boxer.
Boxers aren't captured, and conditioned into this career, they choose it. Pokemon are essentially wild animals(regardless of intelligence), so just let them live in the wild. Let them apply their "nature" naturally.

Promoting violence for entertainment, whether it is boxing, or pokemon, is morally reprehensible, and immature.

Quote:
Pokemon fighting isn't even violence.
Fighting IS violence. It is the initiation of force on another individual. The pokemon world promotes this violent nature for entertainment.

Last edited by Oryx; July 12th, 2012 at 12:52 AM. Reason: Please don't double post. Merged them for you.
  #61    
Old July 12th, 2012, 12:51 AM
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Pokemon choose to be caught too. When the Pokemon is battling a trainer it's testing the trainer that's all. @Shining Raichu, now you know that team rocket is the ones who killed the Pokemon.

Hahahahahahaha! This dude is seriously making me laugh. Pokemon isn't violence okay! Pokemon is just a FAKE universe.


Last edited by ShinyUmbreon189; July 12th, 2012 at 12:53 AM. Reason: Your double post has been automatically merged.
  #62    
Old July 12th, 2012, 12:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shining Raichu View Post
Go tell that to the people of Lavender Town.
Ugh... now you choose to step out of the blue and take a stab at me?
________________________________

Any way yes fighting is violence but violence is what sells these days.
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  #63    
Old July 12th, 2012, 12:55 AM
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Team Rocket did not kill all of the Pokemon that were laid to rest in the tower at Lavender Town. Even if they did, it's not particularly relevant because regardless of who killed them, it still shows they can die rather than just faint. If a Team Rocket member can kill a Pokemon, why can't another Pokemon?

There is no magical force to speak of preventing Pokemon death.

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  #64    
Old July 12th, 2012, 12:58 AM
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@Skitty, I bet Shining Raichu is cracking up about this right now and that's why she said that.
But seriously dude, why are you so worried about Pokemon and violence? I'm pretty sure you play M rated games and they are 100000x more violent than Pokemon will ever be.

  #65    
Old July 12th, 2012, 12:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shining Raichu View Post
Team Rocket did not kill all of the Pokemon that were laid to rest in the tower at Lavender Town. Even if they did, it's not particularly relevant because regardless of who killed them, it still shows they can die rather than just faint. If a Team Rocket member can kill a Pokemon, why can't another Pokemon?

There is no magical force to speak of preventing Pokemon death.
Ok, ok a Pokemon can die but most often they faint (at least thats what I see) I figured Pokemon only faint so Nintendo could keep the violence toned down.

I am getting tired of arguing semantics though...
made by R a c h e l

Last edited by Oryx; July 12th, 2012 at 01:07 AM. Reason: Merging since deletion causes double post, edited out the reply to deleted post. Stick to the discussion, not the OP please.
  #66    
Old July 12th, 2012, 01:06 AM
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If you think about it though, basically what everyone is debating is headcanon. Do you see Pokemon as sub-human animals, being captured against their will and forced to battle whether or not they want to? Or do you see Pokemon as sentient beings capable of making their own decisions, choosing to go with a trainer and battling because they enjoy it? Both ways are supported by various parts of canon, so nothing can truly be proved either way.
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  #67    
Old July 12th, 2012, 01:09 AM
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I agree with Toujours. As I stated earlier in numerous posts actually that the Pokemon is happy battling and is testing the trainer when they are battling him/her. I can't count how many times Pokemon free willingly joined Ash's team.

  #68    
Old July 12th, 2012, 01:12 AM
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I see Pokemon as sprites (which is what they are) - granted I love Skitty (not romantically) because of how cute the way it sounds and acts but I realize it is only a fictional being.
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  #69    
Old July 12th, 2012, 01:18 AM
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I see Pokemon the same way. I don't think there is violence in Pokemon I just play the game because it's interesting, fun, and very very addicting.

  #70    
Old July 12th, 2012, 01:18 AM
kylio_27
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If you think about it though, basically what everyone is debating is headcanon. Do you see Pokemon as sub-human animals, being captured against their will and forced to battle whether or not they want to? Or do you see Pokemon as sentient beings capable of making their own decisions, choosing to go with a trainer and battling because they enjoy it? Both ways are supported by various parts of canon, so nothing can truly be proved either way.
I can live with that.

What I can't get over is how the universe promotes violence byway of prize fighting entertainment, and is encouraged.
  #71    
Old July 12th, 2012, 01:20 AM
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Ask nintendo about this one. We can't help you here. We don't see it as violence we see it as interesting, fun, and have you ever played the game? It's so addicting.

  #72    
Old July 12th, 2012, 01:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kylio_27 View Post
I can live with that.

What I can't get over is how the universe promotes violence byway of prize fighting entertainment, and is encouraged.
YES! we have converted a nonbeliever!!! الحمد لله thank goodness!
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  #73    
Old July 12th, 2012, 01:29 AM
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^don't get your hopes up yet Skitty. We may of have converted him but he still thinks the same with pokemon with violence and all that. It's just his opinion.

  #74    
Old July 12th, 2012, 01:42 AM
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I kinda agree with the first poster, actually. :x Though I don't try to think about the impact that doing that has on the Pokemon, I can understand how there are bad parts, however there are also good parts - some Pokemon such as Pikachu in the anime can't live w/o Ash, so I see that as a positive thing rather than negative. Sure there are bad things but I guess it relates to the trainer, but overall I guess it's up to the Pokemon. Maybe allowing a Pokemon to escape might make it a bit fairer but I doubt any Pokemon willingly would.
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  #75    
Old July 12th, 2012, 01:49 AM
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1. If the pokemon did not want to battle for the trainer, it could
a. run away
b. attack the trainer
2. Pokemon are not the same as real world animals. They are generally more intelligent, and they are much tougher, as they survive being hit by all sorts of attacks that would be fatal to humans or animals.
3. I can only speculate what goes on inside pokeballs, but Im confident its not like being in a room staring at a wall for days. In other words, it seems like biological processes are paused. They don't feel time passing, they don't heal or get worse without immediate care, they don't starve or grow.


The pokemon are not resisting the capture within a pokeball because they dont want the trainer to catch it. Because while they do resist the pokeball, they don't even attempt to flee (except for roamers...).
Resisting the pokeball is part of checking if the trainer is worth it.



The pokemon has 2 possibilities when meeting a trainer that might try to catch it:
-it can remain wild, surviving on its own, searching for food, shelter..
-being caught by the trainer, which assures its safety, and enables it to grow stronger
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