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  #326    
Old November 10th, 2012 (12:41 AM).
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Freaky, Zet wasn't replying to you, so why are you talking about your voting record? It's KingCharizard that he was addressing.
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  #327    
Old November 10th, 2012 (06:43 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Zet:
And electing a man who wears magic underwear, and has been caught numerous times tax dodging it isn't a huge mistake? It took eight years for Bush to make the mess, and I think Obama deserves eight years to clean it up.
It isn't all Bush y'know. Really, this problem's been developing for 30 years
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  #328    
Old November 10th, 2012 (06:59 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Zet:
And electing a man who wears magic underwear, and has been caught numerous times tax dodging it isn't a huge mistake? It took eight years for Bush to make the mess, and I think Obama deserves eight years to clean it up.
First of all his "Magic Underwear" shouldn't have anything to do with anything, and if he was caught tax dodging why isn't he arrested? also he wouldn't have been allowed to run for office. They are accusations, and last time I check american courts still run by the rule innocent until proven guilty.

But since you went there, why hasn't obama shown his birth cirtificate and other docs, Donald Trumph said he would donate 5 million to a charity if Obama showed a few documents, if he had them why not show them. yet he didn't show the documents. Also Bush did not make this problem, it was coming for a long time bush just threw gas on the fire.

Lastly Obama cant get anything done because most of congress and the senate doesn't approve of him and they will vote against him for that fact. So far Obama hasn't done anything for this country but bad things... He had atleast 4 years to do one thing good that would make a huge impact and yet he has done nothing....


Romeny was a business man and when your on the brink of going "Bankrupt" - for lack of a better word, you want a businessman who can make the hard decisions. Someone who will cut losses and stupid spending. Not someone who will continue to press for obama care, and waste money. Someone who wouldn't let China cheat us on our trade deals just because we owe them someone who will continue to push for the things we need, someone who wont show up on TV about twice a week, someone who wife wasn't on Sesame Street....

Obama is a celebrity, a good campaigner bad president.
Romney is a businessman, a horrible campaigner but a great president...

That is my opinion.
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  #329    
Old November 10th, 2012 (09:28 AM).
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Mitt Romney, intentionally, paid more taxes then he was legally required to.
He did this to ensure that he wouldn't pay under a tax rate, that he earlier said he never paid under.
He also said, that he doesn't think that a person who pays more then they have to in taxes shouldn't to be president.

Lets just ignore the rest of what he said, and focus on this. Mitt Romney admits that he shouldn't be President.

We can't blame Obama for the fact that the other parts of government refuse to work/comprimise with him. This isn't his fault.

Romney is invested in Chinese business, and his experience at Bain can easily be summed up as this - Outsourcing. I highly doubt that a person who's primary business experience is outsourcing will be able to make jobs. Sure, he can send them away, but not bring them back. He wouldn't have done **** about China, that was just a election promise in hopes of getting people to vote for him. And even if he planned on doing this, the end result would be us getting ****ed over as China makes a large amount of our items.

And lets not forget, that Mitt Romney created the frameworks for Obama Care. He says he hates it, but just look at everything else he has said and later went back on.
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  #330    
Old November 10th, 2012 (09:55 AM).
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Quote originally posted by KingCharizard:
First of all his "Magic Underwear" shouldn't have anything to do with anything, and if he was caught tax dodging why isn't he arrested? also he wouldn't have been allowed to run for office. They are accusations, and last time I check american courts still run by the rule innocent until proven guilty.

But since you went there, why hasn't obama shown his birth cirtificate and other docs, Donald Trumph said he would donate 5 million to a charity if Obama showed a few documents, if he had them why not show them. yet he didn't show the documents. Also Bush did not make this problem, it was coming for a long time bush just threw gas on the fire.

Lastly Obama cant get anything done because most of congress and the senate doesn't approve of him and they will vote against him for that fact. So far Obama hasn't done anything for this country but bad things... He had atleast 4 years to do one thing good that would make a huge impact and yet he has done nothing....


Romeny was a business man and when your on the brink of going "Bankrupt" - for lack of a better word, you want a businessman who can make the hard decisions. Someone who will cut losses and stupid spending. Not someone who will continue to press for obama care, and waste money. Someone who wouldn't let China cheat us on our trade deals just because we owe them someone who will continue to push for the things we need, someone who wont show up on TV about twice a week, someone who wife wasn't on Sesame Street....

Obama is a celebrity, a good campaigner bad president.
Romney is a businessman, a horrible campaigner but a great president...

That is my opinion.
Your opinion is completely invalidated by the fact you played the "birther" card. Keep that garbage out of here.
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  #331    
Old November 10th, 2012 (10:03 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Mr. X:
Romney is invested in Chinese business
Irrelevant. So is Obama, so am I, so is a heck of a lot of middle class people who have generic investment portfolios set up with their local bank branches as part of their retirement savings.

Quote originally posted by KingCharizard:
But since you went there, why hasn't obama shown his birth cirtificate and other docs, Donald Trumph said he would donate 5 million to a charity if Obama showed a few documents, if he had them why not show them. yet he didn't show the documents.
But he did. Twice. Both the short-form and long-form certificates.
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  #332    
Old November 10th, 2012 (10:10 AM).
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Quote originally posted by Livewire:
Your opinion is completely invalidated by the fact you played the "birther" card. Keep that garbage out of here.
Really? I cant expect to know if my president is a US citizen? And that doesn't invalidate everything I said just makes that point moot.

Secondly are you saying that as a mod or a person?

Third I didn't pull the card, I said Donald Trumph did, and I though it was selfish to not provide simple documents so a man can donate 5 million to charity, if someone asked to see my birth certificate so they could donate 5 million i would..

Quote:
Irrelevant. So is Obama, so am I, so is a heck of a lot of middle class people who have generic investment portfolios set up with their local bank branches as part of their retirement savings.
Exactly Romney made a good business decisions. But that's all people say when it comes to romney, oh he is gonna outsource because he did that for his company, you dont know that.. that is an assumption. I'm done with this thread, it honestly seems no one understand the realties of keeping Obama in the white house, you'll see soon enough..
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  #333    
Old November 10th, 2012 (10:13 AM).
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Quote originally posted by KingCharizard:
Really? I cant expect to know if my president is a US citizen? And that doesn't invalidate everything I said just makes that point moot.
I think that he did, didn't he? But iirc all the other people who want to "prove" he's not american just ignored that and kept on saying "SHOW US YOUR BIRTH CERTIFICATE BB" and that's what so annoying about it to Livewire I presume.
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  #334    
Old November 10th, 2012 (10:18 AM). Edited November 10th, 2012 by KingCharizard.
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Quote originally posted by droomph:
I think that he did, didn't he? But iirc all the other people who want to "prove" he's not american just ignored that and kept on saying "SHOW US YOUR BIRTH CERTIFICATE BB" and that's what so annoying about it to Livewire I presume.
I never said he didn't and trumph wasn't asking for the birth certificate he was asking for he other docs

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/10/donald-trump-obama-college-five-million.html

As far as i know he never showed the docs...

my point was if someone asked for documents i knew i had to donate to charity i'd done it, even if it was for good publicity
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  #335    
Old November 10th, 2012 (10:20 AM). Edited November 10th, 2012 by TRIFORCE89.
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Quote originally posted by KingCharizard:
Exactly Romney made a good business decisions. But that's all people say when it comes to romney, oh he is gonna outsource because he did that for his company, you dont know that.. that is an assumption. I'm done with this thread, it honestly seems no one understand the realties of keeping Obama in the white house, you'll see soon enough..
Well, it's something I never entirely bought into. A President does not directly create or cut jobs, unless they are public-sector jobs. For the private sector, they can put steps forward that would lead to one environment or another. Heavy regulations and taxation lead to outsourcing, which I don't think is something Romney would have done. Quite the opposite.

However, that doesn't mean I think Obama is going to have heavy regulations or taxation either. His approach seems mild and responsible, not heavy-handed.

The US was fine under Clinton-era taxation, so that level for the upper classes shouldn't be a problem. Besides which... we're talking about income tax here. Not corporate taxes. I don't know why people keep saying that by raising taxes on the rich, it effects business. Business are supposed to pay corporate taxes, no income taxes. Is this another strange byproduct of "corporations are people"?

Quote originally posted by KingCharizard:
I never said he didn't and trumph wasn't asking for the birth certificate he was asking for he other docs

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/10/donald-trump-obama-college-five-million.html

As far as i know he never showed the docs...
Well, for one thing... why negotiate with terrorists? :p Seriously. Basically Trump was extorting the President.

And secondly, he was kinda busy being the President during a hurricane.
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  #336    
Old November 10th, 2012 (10:39 AM).
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If you think that birth certificates backed by the state of Hawaii aren't good enough evidence that a person was born in the US, nothing will. What does a Passport prove? Nothing!! I mean, you could get an US passport by acquiring citizenship later into your life, without having to be born in the US on the first place, which is the requirement for becoming president. Thus, president Obama has shown the birth records that prove that he was born in the US- the only thing the law requires. You aren't required to "have studied in the US", so his college records don't mean a thing either. So if the documents proving that he meets the ONLY requirement to be President aren't enough evidence that he is 100% legitimate, I don't know what will prove them.

At this point Trump is only asking for phone bills and random stuff so he can scream "Aha! He isn't showing absolutely pointless and irrelevant documents that prove nothing about anything! THERE MUST BE SOMETHING FISHY ABOUT HIM!" so the Fox News tribe can feel good about themselves.
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  #337    
Old November 10th, 2012 (10:42 AM). Edited November 10th, 2012 by KingCharizard.
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Quote originally posted by Went:
If you think that birth certificates backed by the state of Hawaii aren't good enough evidence that a person was born in the US, nothing will. What does a Passport prove? Nothing!! I mean, you could get an US passport by acquiring citizenship later into your life, without having to be born in the US on the first place, which is the requirement for becoming president. Thus, president Obama has shown the birth records that prove that he was born in the US- the only thing the law requires. You aren't required to "have studied in the US", so his college records don't mean a thing either. So if the documents proving that he meets the ONLY requirement to be President aren't enough evidence that he is 100% legitimate, I don't know what will prove them.

At this point Trump is only asking for phone bills and random stuff so he can scream "Aha! He isn't showing absolutely pointless and irrelevant documents that prove nothing about anything! THERE MUST BE SOMETHING FISHY ABOUT HIM!" so the Fox News tribe can feel good about themselves.
The point was, if he showed the docs 5 million would have been donated to charity, thats the reason I have to side with trumph, not because I believe in proving obama isn't american.

But I haven't herd one valid reason on why romney shouldn't have been president. All people talk about is a few key choices that shouldn't even matter, such as his tax priorities, his business decisions he made in the past, when he had his company's best interest in mind... That closing PBS line probably killed his chances because that's all people focus on what they dont need... The negative, the few mistakes. There is a bigger picture that Americans cant see.
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  #338    
Old November 10th, 2012 (10:48 AM).
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Quote originally posted by KingCharizard:
The point was, if he showed the docs 5 million would have been donated to charity, thats the reason I have to side with trumph, not because I believe in proving obama isn't american.
But what's the point of showing those? It's a "don't enter their game, ignore them" kind of thing. He showed the only certificate he's legally bound to have. And yet now Trump and the "birthers" are asking for random pointless stuff that might intrude his privacy- like college records. And, if he shows them, they'll ask for his elementary school grades and his medical records or his phone bills or anything else you can think of claiming that failure to produce them would somehow invalidate his birth certificate. It's pointless. I'd rather donate the money myself, privately, and ignore those guys.

And what does "siding with him" mean, anyway? Because if you want to know whether your president is American or not, I can direct you to his birth certificate- the only document that can prove where he was born, and which he showed long ago.
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  #339    
Old November 10th, 2012 (10:50 AM).
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And what does "siding with him" mean, anyway? Because if you want to know whether your president is American or not, I can direct you to his birth certificate- the only document that can prove where he was born, and which he showed long ago.
Meaning I wanted him to show the requested docs, I see your point about him showing them, once you give in people will try to milk everything out of you, but I dont see the harm in showing the docs once and telling them no more, They wont get anything else...
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  #340    
Old November 10th, 2012 (10:52 AM).
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Quote originally posted by KingCharizard:
The point was, if he showed the docs 5 million would have been donated to charity, thats the reason I have to side with trumph, not because I believe in proving obama isn't american.
He already showed his birth certificate. What else do you want him to show to 'prove himself'? In reality, what you should be thinking is "why is Trump holding this 5 million hostage when he could donate it to charity?" If he wanted to donate money to charity, nothing's stopping him. But he's choosing not to, because he didn't get his way. And he's the charitable one?

Edit: Until Trump offers another 5 million for his baby book. Then you'll be back to "OBAMA SHOULD JUST DO WHAT THE RICH PEOPLE WANT".

Quote:
But I haven't herd one valid reason on why romney shouldn't have been president. All people talk about is a few key choices that shouldn't even matter, such as hit tax priorities, his business decisions he made in the past, when he had his company's best interest in mind... That closing PBS line probably killed his chances because that's all people focus on what they dont need... The negative, the few mistakes. There is a bigger picture that Americans cant see.
His business decisions are what he was running on, basically. His logic was "I was great at my business, so I'll be great at AMERICA". Nevermind that businesses and countries are run in incredibly different ways. Nevermind that his success in business came from outsourcing jobs, when he wanted to argue that he'll create jobs in America as President. What economic plan do you think he had that would have been good for America? Details, please. With sources. If you're such a big supporter I'm sure it shouldn't be hard to outline what he actually was planning on doing to help the economy, right? :)

Edit: And there are issues beyond the economic, which are important to different people.
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  #341    
Old November 10th, 2012 (10:56 AM).
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Quote originally posted by KingCharizard:
my point was if someone asked for documents i knew i had to donate to charity i'd done it, even if it was for good publicity
showing government documents -> had to donate to charity = you'd have done it even for good publicity

That's your point? I think you need to reread that a bit, because showing government documents has nothing to do with donating to charity and...

just, reread that sentence. It makes no sense. Donating to charity is a moral decision, showing government documents is a legal or at least interpersonal decision.
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  #342    
Old November 10th, 2012 (10:57 AM).
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What economic plan do you think he has that would have been good for America? Details, please. With sources. If you're such a big supporter I'm sure it shouldn't be hard to outline what he actually was planning on doing to help the economy, right?
If that's the case, tell me how Obama did on the job creation and his economic plan?

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104719.html

Almost all those years except the 30's the unemployment rate was below 8%

Even with the war* and bush in office the rate is below 6%

And the list doesn't even mention 2011

Quote:
just, reread that sentence. It makes no sense. Donating to charity is a moral decision, showing government documents is a legal or at least interpersonal decision.
Because he is the president his PERSONAL documents become sacred? They are a national Treasure? If Obama showed the docs, he would have made alot of people shut up and charity would have gained 5 million, by not showing them the "nay sayers" think he is hiding something and now have even more to say.. I'm done "Discussing" this point its not gonna get anywhere...
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Old November 10th, 2012 (11:04 AM).
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Quote originally posted by KingCharizard:
If that's the case, tell me how Obama did on the job creation and his economic plan?

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104719.html

Almost all those years except the 30's the unemployment rate was below 8%

Even with the way and bush in office the rate is below 6%
If 33 consecutive months of private-sector job creation isn't good enough for you, and if unemployment levels crawling back down to where they were during the 2008 economical meltdown are something terrible, please move to Europe. We have been losing jobs month after month for several years already and our unemployment levels are at an all-time high, and we have been reducing Government spending like madmen, and reducing the services provided by the State, and firing civil servants and privatizing jobs- and things are getting worse and worse and here in Spain our unemployment level is up to 25% with no hopes of going anywhere. I wish we had had someone to enact a Stimulus plan, maybe we'd be where the US are right now. I'd cry of happiness if that happened.
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  #344    
Old November 10th, 2012 (11:04 AM).
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Who cares if the nay sayers have "more to say", honestly? By now reasonable people have written them off as unhinged nutjobs for needing his college records, and he won, so they obviously don't have a hold on the country. It is a little troubling to see that you find Trump's actions completely reasonable though. Once again, if he wanted to donate to charity, he could have. He chose not to.

@your reply to me: I see that you avoided the question. Should I assume from this that you have no answer and actually have no clue how Romney would help the economy? Not that I'm surprised or blame you for that, no one really knew how he would help since he didn't say anything about it.
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Old November 10th, 2012 (11:07 AM).
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Quote originally posted by KingCharizard:
The point was, if he showed the docs 5 million would have been donated to charity, thats the reason I have to side with trumph, not because I believe in proving obama isn't american.
Donating is a personal decision, not something that would concern everyone. If I had said something comparable to that, like, "IF YOU DON'T GIVE ME A COOKIE, THEN I WON'T DO MY HOMEWORK", I would be justifiably ignored. There's no reason I should be listened to. Homework is something you should do, but not something you have to. In the same way, donations are something you should do, but not something you have to. And then, a cookie is junk food, and doesn't help you with life in any way other than just feeding your satisfaction. In the same way, Obama's birth certificate is, in the same way, just something that feeds the public's satisfaction. There is in no way that those two things are connected.
Quote originally posted by KingCharizard:
But I haven't herd one valid reason on why romney shouldn't have been president. All people talk about is a few key choices that shouldn't even matter, such as his tax priorities, his business decisions he made in the past, when he had his company's best interest in mind... That closing PBS line probably killed his chances because that's all people focus on what they dont need... The negative, the few mistakes. There is a bigger picture that Americans cant see.
We have said many of them, but ignore them if you will.

There is a bigger picture that Americans can't see, but I can see. I have no obligation to provide any support for any group, because I can go back to my home country if things get bad here in America, unlike true Americans, who can't revoke their citizenship. But still, I support Obama, because he had four years to fix something eight years long, we should at least give him the same amount of time to fix the problem than it was made worse.

And, if you don't mind a tidbit of personal opinion, he seems really desperate and unskilled, with bad foresight for the future. He ran in 2008, he ran now in 2012, he's probably going to do it again in 2016 (but I hope he learns his lesson by then). He has all these contradictions only a spastic 12-year-old running for president could make, and he supports the people he likes, again, like a spastic 12-year-old going through adolescence, sticking up for his clique.

But that's just me. Maybe you support him, and I have no reason to make you believe otherwise. But the matter of fact is, Obama and his general support for the majority (as far as I can tell) may just be better for America (maybe!), more than Romney, and the "trickle down economics" that the Republicans so prefer.
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  #346    
Old November 10th, 2012 (11:07 AM).
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@your reply to me: I see that you avoided the question. Should I assume from this that you have no answer and actually have no clue how Romney would help the economy? Not that I'm surprised or blame you for that, no one really knew how he would help since he didn't say anything about it.
Its not clear how Obama plans to help either.... It seems to me he will continue to do what he has been doing which is alot of nothing, i know too many people who lost jobs that voted for Obama who chose not to vote this year, some even voted for Romney
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Old November 10th, 2012 (11:10 AM).
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KingCharizard, please answer my question. You made a claim. What is this "bigger picture" that America can't see? Are you implying by your avoidance that it's not economic? Are his social issues the "bigger picture"?
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Old November 10th, 2012 (11:10 AM).
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On the birth certificate issue... has Mitt Romney shown his yet? Are people picking solely on Obama just because he doesn't look they way they think a 'real american' should look? Because that's what it looks like from my (outsider) point of view.
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Old November 10th, 2012 (11:11 AM).
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Quote originally posted by KingCharizard:
Its not clear how Obama plans to help either.... It seems to me he will continue to do what he has been doing which is alot of nothing, i know too many people who lost jobs that voted for Obama who chose not to vote this year, some even voted for Romney
Just going to add, Romney got 2 million votes less than John McCain. So there were people who voted for Obama and switched to him, but there are also many who voted for McCain and decided to switch to Obama- or simply not vote. One anecdote doesn't prove a general tendency.
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Old November 10th, 2012 (11:13 AM).
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Quote originally posted by SwiftSign:
On the birth certificate issue... has Mitt Romney shown his yet? Are people picking solely on Obama just because he doesn't look they way they think a 'real american' should look? Because that's what it looks like from my (outsider) point of view.
You've got it completely right. There are no Romney birthers. Gee, I wonder why?
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