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  #351    
Old November 10th, 2012, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by KingCharizard View Post
Because he is the president his PERSONAL documents become sacred? They are a national Treasure? If Obama showed the docs, he would have made alot of people shut up and charity would have gained 5 million, by not showing them the "nay sayers" think he is hiding something and now have even more to say.. I'm done "Discussing" this point its not gonna get anywhere...
Obviously a link from Snopes isn't as good as a link from usa.gov, but here's what I could gather.

Also, here's a bit from the official White House blog.

If that's not enough, I don't know if Trump was being an ******* or he actually had some doubts. Because the Internet is free for everyone, not just for poor people and middle-class citizens.

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Originally Posted by Toujours View Post
KingCharizard, please answer my question. You made a claim. What is this "bigger picture" that America can't see? Are you implying by your avoidance that it's not economic? Are his social issues the "bigger picture"?
Yes, what is the "bigger picture"? I would like to know too.
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  #352    
Old November 10th, 2012, 11:16 AM
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For the record, Trump wasn't asking about his birth certificate with the 5 million dollar offer, it was his college and passport records.
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  #353    
Old November 10th, 2012, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by KingCharizard View Post
But I haven't herd one valid reason on why romney shouldn't have been president. All people talk about is a few key choices that shouldn't even matter, such as his tax priorities, his business decisions he made in the past, when he had his company's best interest in mind... That closing PBS line probably killed his chances because that's all people focus on what they dont need... The negative, the few mistakes. There is a bigger picture that Americans cant see.
With Romney personally, I wouldn't have had much of a problem. It's more the rest of the Republican party that that would have been part and parcel of a Republican administration.

I consider myself a Conservative. The Republicans have drifted though. Quite a bit. They have large branding issues. Not to mention hypocrites and contradictions. There are many voices yelling at once. They're supposedly the party of fiscal responsibility and civil liberties and yet largely against gay marriage and abortion in extreme circumstances. Both of which are fundamentally economic and liberty-based issues at their core.

They've become a party of no and exclusion and their core message (which I think would be wholly palatable) is buried. Also, have you seen who they have as part of the Committee on Science, Space and Technology. Makes no sense

Also, they've turned into a bumper sticker party. Simple answers for complex problems.

There is a place for PBS, for instance. In the grand scheme of the budget, it is minuscule. Should it be cut? No. What it should be though is restructured. Tweaked. Made leaner and more efficient. As should everything in government. More bang for the buck. That should be the Republican message. But it is not. There's no grey. There's only spend or cut, but not spend less. That's what business is. You make things efficient and responsibly run. Spend responsibly. Invest. You know... R&D.

And quite frankly, how a party who in their last administration cut taxes while increasing spending substantially and launching two unpaid wars can claim to be the party of fiscal responsibility is beyond me.

Romney did not necessarily campaign on those problem issues (except for PBS), but the formal platform and the party at large does represent those things even if he doesn't. That's the problem. That's why he lost.

Reagan increased taxes. Bush Sr. increased taxes. Suddenly, it's a dirty word in the party.

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Edit: And there are issues beyond the economic, which are important to different people.
But economics should be (and are) important to everyone, even if they don't recognize it. Individual issues affect individuals. And on the campaign trail specifically.... it's mostly fluff. Rallying on one side. Fear-mongering on the other. Which and when depends on the situation and issue. But, lets take abortion. Roe v. Wade was in 1973. Since (and during) that time there have been five Republican presidents. And nothing has happened. It isn't going to be touched. It is a non-issue. But economics are reality
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  #354    
Old November 10th, 2012, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Toujours View Post
KingCharizard, please answer my question. You made a claim. What is this "bigger picture" that America can't see? Are you implying by your avoidance that it's not economic? Are his social issues the "bigger picture"?
I'll break it down from my point of view, I also have a few relatives who are soldiers so i'll mention what they have said to me to.

Obama is not the Commander in chief we need in a conflict situation, he couldn't call the Benghazi attack a terrorist attack, when it clearly was. He has made tense relations between us and Israel.
The Iran Situation is getting out of hand, just a few days ago with a drone getting targeted by Iranian pilots. He plans to cut spending for the military with these growing conflicts, he plans to stop insurance for military families only the soldier will be covered. He has already layed off a bunch of soldiers.. He plans to borrow more, Obama care is something w cannot afford. we continue to waste money. Unemployment has not gone down much, also romney is right most americans have stopped looking for jobs thats why the number isn't higher, the amount of americans on welfare is out of control. There is more I could say but I'm getting lazy and dont feel like it this should be enough for people to rip through and try to dismiss, have fun
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  #355    
Old November 10th, 2012, 11:23 AM
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It is not a non-issue, Triforce. Behind all the economy, in both the states and country-wide, there are constant social issues being fought. Abortion is being fought. In one of Romney's many "faces", he expressed how delighted he would be to support a ban on abortions countrywide. It's part of his platform. It may not be important to you as a man, but it's incredibly important to me, and it's what I voted on.
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  #356    
Old November 10th, 2012, 11:23 AM
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...wtf?

If I remember correctly from 8th grade, these are the requirements set by the constitution or whatever to be president:

Quote:
  • be a natural-born citizen of the United States
  • be at least thirty-five years old;
  • have been a permanent resident in the United States for at least fourteen years.
And one:

College: How old is Barack Obama? 51? Even if he came back to America after college when he was 37, which is probably too old for anyone, even for lawyers, he would be legal to be president.

Passport records: Out-of-country travels do not disqualify you from being a "permanent resident" of the US. Even if you live in another country, you can't have your status revoked, unless you specifically ask them to. At least that's how it works in China - I'm still a legal resident of the People's Republic of China, even though I've lived at least 13 years in America.

so neither of them matter.
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  #357    
Old November 10th, 2012, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by KingCharizard View Post
Its not clear how Obama plans to help either.... It seems to me he will continue to do what he has been doing which is alot of nothing, i know too many people who lost jobs that voted for Obama who chose not to vote this year, some even voted for Romney
Well, possibly nothing. But not by his own doing. He did try to bring budgets to the table. Compromises. Job bills.

It's all stagnant due to a stupid Congress.
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  #358    
Old November 10th, 2012, 11:29 AM
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It's all stagnant due to a stupid Congress.
Exactly part of the bigger picture I forgot to mention. Whats the point of having a president if he cant actually achieve anything.
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  #359    
Old November 10th, 2012, 11:32 AM
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And neither a President that can do something but won't.
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  #360    
Old November 10th, 2012, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by KingCharizard View Post
I'll break it down from my point of view, I also have a few relatives who are soldiers so i'll mention what they have said to me to.

Obama is not the Commander in chief we need in a conflict situation, he couldn't call the Benghazi attack a terrorist attack, when it clearly was.
He did. He just waited until it was certain to call it that.

Quote:
He has made tense relations between us and Israel.
[citation needed]

Quote:
The Iran Situation is getting out of hand, just a few days ago with a drone getting targeted by Iranian pilots.
I completely agree that the drones in general are a large problem with his policy. Is Romney against drones? How would Romney have handled that differently?

Quote:
He plans to cut spending for the military with these growing conflicts, he plans to stop insurance for military families only the soldier will be covered.
Do some more research. Since you made another unsourced claim, I did it for you:

"The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA) signed into law in 2010 had no direct effect on the TRICARE benefit. The bill meant changes in health care coverage for many Americans, but the legislation did not apply directly to TRICARE."

Quote:
He has already layed off a bunch of soldiers.. He plans to borrow more, Obama care is something w cannot afford. we continue to waste money. Unemployment has not gone down much, also romney is right most americans have stopped looking for jobs thats why the number isn't higher, the amount of americans on welfare is out of control.
The original unemployment did not account for people that weren't looking for work either. It is disingenuous to compare the two when they take into account different things. Unemployment has gone down. What do you think Romney would have done to make it go down faster? You say a lot of "Obama didn't do this", but not a lot of "this is how Romney would have done it better". That's the real question here. What do you think Romney would do to lower unemployment faster, outsource more jobs like he did at Bain Capital?
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  #361    
Old November 10th, 2012, 11:38 AM
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Do some more research. Since you made another unsourced claim, I did it for you:
My claim is from a very good source, a staff sergeant in the Us Army. He hasn't done it yet that is why i said
Quote:
he plans to stop insurance for military families only the soldier will be covered.
this "Discussion" really doesn't matter, its not gonna go anywhere either. Obama is president and we'll see what happens..

I know things will get worse, alot worse....
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  #362    
Old November 10th, 2012, 11:39 AM
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It is not a non-issue, Triforce. Behind all the economy, in both the states and country-wide, there are constant social issues being fought. Abortion is being fought. In one of Romney's many "faces", he expressed how delighted he would be to support a ban on abortions countrywide. It's part of his platform. It may not be important to you as a man, but it's incredibly important to me, and it's what I voted on.
I would not support or want a ban. I am pro-choice. You missed my point. Or I didn't convey it properly.

What I meant was that despite what they might have said or campaigned on, nothing was going to happen. Guaranteed.

No problem if you vote on that issue based on principle or conviction. It's just that, as I see it, it was not ever actually anything at all. Not one chance of it coming into fruition, strictly campaign rhetoric. Unfortunate and completely unnecessarily campaign rhetoric. Very likely that Romney and Obama probably have the same stance on abortion I would think.

So, as a man, as you said, that's how I would view it. At least at the presidential level. In the lesser races, it then becomes a factor of character and intelligence - not simply legislation. So, I'd have no problem voting out or against individuals who claim unwanted pregnancies can be prevented by magic, for instance. Or if they're against contraception. True, that even at that level I don't think they would do something like a ban of contraception. But at different levels in the political hierarchy, I think things amplify more or become more relevant. And for me, that'd be Akin-level over Romney-level.
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  #363    
Old November 10th, 2012, 11:43 AM
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Exactly part of the bigger picture I forgot to mention. Whats the point of having a president if he cant actually achieve anything.
Well in two years you can always vote for your local Democratic House candidate, so he can do something for the second half of this mandate.

Also, could you name that Army official or the website that made that claim? Because I can say that Obama plans to ban Christmas if I want to and that doesn't make it any true.
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  #364    
Old November 10th, 2012, 11:44 AM
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It matters when it comes to who is nominated to the Supreme Court. It matters when it comes to constant personhood bills being introduced across the nation, and it matters when it comes to a President that will hopefully fight for gay marriage rights, over a President that I'm certain will not. It matters in a world where we can make a choice between a man who treats all human beings with basic dignity and a man that does not. Considering things have been happening all over the country constantly, "nothing was going to happen" is a very optimistic and slightly naive way to approach social issues.

I never thought you were pro-life, I'm sorry if it came off that way, haha.

KingCharizard: Since you're claiming this comes from something other than ObamaCare, where does it come from? Do you have any sources, or are you just speaking from "a friend of a friend's cousin's dog walker in the army told me"? One of the biggest issues when it comes time to discuss politics is listening to what people tell you without doing the research yourself. People are misinformed, people have their own agendas, people have motives. That's why you look up sources and use them to back up your argument. If your only source is "someone told me", it's far more likely that your source is faulty than that it's true.
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  #365    
Old November 10th, 2012, 12:26 PM
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I want to echo what Toujours said. The Supreme Court's already shown it can and will go for some pretty stupid things like Citizens Unitied and its corresponding dark money (which thankfully didn't achieve as much this election cycle but that's no reason to think it can't do more damage in the future) so thinking that it won't have an effect on the legal status of abortion is not a risk I would take. Especially when in the last two years there has been a slew of anti-abortion laws and attempts at personhood laws in over half the states. Extreme right-wingers are hammering over and over in the hopes of getting one lucky result.
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  #366    
Old November 10th, 2012, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by KingCharizard View Post
I'll break it down from my point of view, I also have a few relatives who are soldiers so i'll mention what they have said to me to.

Obama is not the Commander in chief we need in a conflict situation, he couldn't call the Benghazi attack a terrorist attack, when it clearly was. He has made tense relations between us and Israel.
The Iran Situation is getting out of hand, just a few days ago with a drone getting targeted by Iranian pilots. He plans to cut spending for the military with these growing conflicts, he plans to stop insurance for military families only the soldier will be covered. He has already layed off a bunch of soldiers.. He plans to borrow more, Obama care is something w cannot afford. we continue to waste money. Unemployment has not gone down much, also romney is right most americans have stopped looking for jobs thats why the number isn't higher, the amount of americans on welfare is out of control. There is more I could say but I'm getting lazy and dont feel like it this should be enough for people to rip through and try to dismiss, have fun
We need to cut military spending, not increase it.

Don't fret, though. We still have the majority in the House, and the same number of seats in the Senate that we had before. If Obama's illegal and unethical re-election isn't challenged, we can still stop his radical leftist agenda cold in Congress.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarf View Post
I want to echo what Toujours said. The Supreme Court's already shown it can and will go for some pretty stupid things like Citizens Unitied and its corresponding dark money (which thankfully didn't achieve as much this election cycle but that's no reason to think it can't do more damage in the future) so thinking that it won't have an effect on the legal status of abortion is not a risk I would take. Especially when in the last two years there has been a slew of anti-abortion laws and attempts at personhood laws in over half the states. Extreme right-wingers are hammering over and over in the hopes of getting one lucky result.
Why are you against free specch? What's so wrong about advocating for or against candidates/issues? That's one of our basic civil rights.

Citizens United did have a major impact on this election. Are you erroneously implying that only conservatives benefit from Citizens United? The ruling has allowed the criminal union thugs to spend just as much as corporations. Corporations don't spend all of their political money on Republicans, either.

Last edited by FreakyLocz14; November 10th, 2012 at 06:29 PM.
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  #367    
Old November 10th, 2012, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by FreakyLocz14 View Post

Don't fret, though. We still have the majority in the House, and the same number of seats in the Senate that we had before. If Obama's illegal and unethical re-election isn't challenged, we can still stop his radical leftist agenda cold in Congress.
Ditch the conspiracy theories and come back to reality. And go right ahead, look how well your obstructionism worked last time. Republicans were in a prime political situation around 2010 and it resulted in an utter disaster.

Quote:
Why are you against free specch? What's so wrong about advocating for or against candidates/issues? That's one of our basic civil rights.

Citizens United did have a major impact on this election. Are you erroneously implying that only conservatives benefit from Citizens United? The ruling had allowed the criminal union thugs to spend just as much as corporations. Corporations don't spend all of their political money on Republicans, either.
The majority of outside money benefits republican politicians. Look at the $400 Million USD Karl Rove wasted on the election. Romney also outspent Obama the majority of the campaign. And the best part was that it was all for nought. 332-206.
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  #368    
Old November 10th, 2012, 06:16 PM
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Why are you against free specch? What's so wrong about advocating for or against candidates/issues? That's one of our basic civil rights.
The real question is, why are you against free speech? Nothing in that post reeks of "omg people shouldn't have a say" other than the fact that she spoke her opinion, yet based off the assumption that you find that you disagree with that post, you say that she is agains free speech. Free speech is allowing people to speak their minds and opinions, and not have anyone accuse them of any crime or otherwise.

If this is how Republicans are, from what I've seen in this thread, then I definitely don't support them. But there is still room for change - a whole four years of it. Is there? And if the important Republicans can support the general public from my point of view, then I will more than ever support Republicans.

But from what I've gathered in the few months I've cared about politics, they are nothing but elitist snobs who can't give up their money and can't allow equality. This is without a doubt not everyone (or most republicans, for that matter), but I can't be supporting a group whose most prominent leaders support such backwards and selfish behavior.
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  #369    
Old November 10th, 2012, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by TRIFORCE89 View Post
It isn't all Bush y'know. Really, this problem's been developing for 30 years
But it was Bush who said "hey, maybe if we give big tax breaks to the rich it will fix the economy!"

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Originally Posted by KingCharizard View Post
They are accusations, and last time I check american courts still run by the rule innocent until proven guilty.
Umm... did you get hit on the head or something? It has always been guilty until proven innocent.

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Originally Posted by KingCharizard View Post
But since you went there, why hasn't obama shown his birth cirtificate and other docs, Donald Trumph said he would donate 5 million to a charity if Obama showed a few documents, if he had them why not show them. yet he didn't show the documents. Also Bush did not make this problem, it was coming for a long time bush just threw gas on the fire.
I'm guessing you haven't noticed that Donald Trump was been bat**** insane lately. Like literally insane, he even wanted to start a revolution since Obama was re-elected.

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Originally Posted by KingCharizard View Post
Obama is a celebrity, a good campaigner bad president.
Romney is a businessman, a horrible campaigner but a great president...

That is my opinion.
How can Rmoney be a great president if he hasn't even been president? You also can't say he will be a great one, and Obama a bad one.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KingCharizard View Post
Obama care is something ww cannot afford. we continue to waste money. Unemployment has not gone down much, also romney is right most americans have stopped looking for jobs thats why the number isn't higher, the amount of americans on welfare is out of control. There is more I could say but I'm getting lazy and dont feel like it this should be enough for people to rip through and try to dismiss, have fun :)
If you can't afford Obama care, I'm guessing that means you've also never been to a Doctor. Obama care is there to make sure you can see a Doctor. Universal health care is the greatest thing in the world since sliced bread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreakyLocz14 View Post
We need to cut military spending, not increase it.
Who are you and what have you done with the real Freaky?




Also is it just me or is all of KingCharizard's posts: [citation needed] ?
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  #370    
Old November 11th, 2012, 12:17 AM
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If you can't afford Obama care, I'm guessing that means you've also never been to a Doctor. Obama care is there to make sure you can see a Doctor. Universal health care is the greatest thing in the world since sliced bread.


Who are you and what have you done with the real Freaky?
You are aware that Obamacare is not universal healthcare, right? All it does is force people to buy private health insurance plans, and punishes them with fines and imprisonment if they don't.

Also, why are you surprised by a position that I've held and advocated for for years?

P.S.
Why are a lot of people here so hostile towards Republicans? What have we ever done to you? All we do is advocate for laissez faire capitalism, defend civil rights, and keep the government off your backs and out of your private lives.
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  #371    
Old November 11th, 2012, 01:54 AM
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and keep the government off your backs and out of your private lives.
Unless you want an abortion or to marry someone of the same sex, lmao. Republicans are all for letting you have a private life - if you're a rich, white, heterosexual man who needs a tax break.
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Old November 11th, 2012, 02:19 AM
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defend civil rights
Uh... did I miss something? I stopped listening after the "legitimate rape" part, so I don't know whether they have done a 180º on the subject of civil rights (abortion, equal marriage) after that day. I only know the citizens of a red state like Missouri didn't agree with that.

Because you think it's horrible that you are forced to buy health insurance (with Government funds in case you need help to afford it) or else you can go to jail- I think it's a hundred times more cruel and sadistic to have the Government force a woman to carry the baby from a rape or put her in jail.
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  #373    
Old November 11th, 2012, 03:19 AM
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Originally Posted by FreakyLocz14 View Post
Also, why are you surprised by a position that I've held and advocated for for years?

P.S.
Why are a lot of people here so hostile towards Republicans? What have we ever done to you? All we do is advocate for laissez faire capitalism, defend civil rights, and keep the government off your backs and out of your private lives.
I'm surprised that you said that military funding should be cut, and not spend more into it. Usually it's the other way around with Republicans.


If you have to ask, you should ask Google. And what you've done is make people think America is a Christian country when the founding fathers never founded it on religion at all(they also were deist, so I have no idea where the whole they were loyal christian soldiers came from)... and well let's face it, when was the last time you saw a non-republican flip out over someone's Islamic faith?

Socialism has proven to be effective, and all the hate on it is just... well odd. And for the defending liberties? You deny people from marrying who they want to, and that is unconstitutional. Also denying a woman abortion is forcing a choice, where is the freedom to do what she wants? Why bring an unloved child into the world?


I would go on, but honestly I have a headache and going through archived news and history is too much of a chore right now.
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  #374    
Old November 11th, 2012, 07:06 AM
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You are aware that Obamacare is not universal healthcare, right? All it does is force people to buy private health insurance plans, and punishes them with fines and imprisonment if they don't.

Also, why are you surprised by a position that I've held and advocated for for years?

P.S.
Why are a lot of people here so hostile towards Republicans? What have we ever done to you? All we do is advocate for laissez faire capitalism, defend civil rights, and keep the government off your backs and out of your private lives.
I don't hate Republicans. I dislike their leadership and how a large number of the people I know who claim to be Republican do so because they're closed-minded and ignorant and, to be perfectly blunt, it's the party of Evangelical Christianity to them. "God.." everything. They see the Democrats as heathens for being more open and accepting. Also, one thing I dislike is how hypocritical the party tends to be when they push for things that are counter to what they tout their entire party to be all about. They play favoritism and pick and choose politics when it's convenient to them instead of applying it universally to people as a whole. Also, most of the people I tend to come across tend to see themselves as better than everyone else. I know quite a few people who are Republicans though who I deem friends of mine who I have absolutely no problems with other than that minor difference of opinion.

Also: please explain how Obama's re-election was illegal and unethical. If you say "it was rigged" that doesn't count for anything. I've seen faaaar more from the far right party than I have the center-right party in this election about trying to turn odds in their favor.

Now, as for contribution so as to remain on topic: I'm quite pleased with how the election turned out as far as State level goes, but I'm worried given what's going to happen in the next few months and next couple of years what will happen given regarding taxes and spending and the deficit and all that on the Federal level. This game of chicken the Reps have been playing since they regained the House is a very dangerous thing given these troubling economic times.

Was also wondering something about the States thing: will the current administration even allow Colorado and Washington to go through with their recreational marijuana use laws given that it's still a federally illegal substance?
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Old November 11th, 2012, 08:58 AM
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KingCharizard
C++ Developer Extraordinaire
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Pennsylvania
Age: 25
Gender: Male
Nature: Bold
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You are aware that Obamacare is not universal healthcare, right? All it does is force people to buy private health insurance plans, and punishes them with fines and imprisonment if they don't.
Exactly I'm not paying a fine because I chose not to goto the hospital(Not have insurance), i even had my ribs broke and healed them at home on my own.. I dont like hospitals and I dont want to go. I haven't seen a doctor in about 6 or 7 years and I'm still healthy. If i dont need insurance, I'm not paying for it..
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We need to cut military spending, not increase it.
Are people that ignorant to the escalating conflict in the Mid east? Its getting worse, and it will continue to get worse, if its gonna stabilize the US will need to step in as well as UN forces.
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How can Rmoney be a great president if he hasn't even been president? You also can't say he will be a great one, and Obama a bad one.
I was saying he would have made a great president...
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Umm... did you get hit on the head or something? It has always been guilty until proven innocent.
Not in america, Read, although it seems the other way around our system is based on the "Innocent Until proven guilty" ideal, its up to lawyers to prove ur guilty without reasonable doubt while its up to a defense attorney to prove your innocence. Thats why most people with pending trials can walk the streets, a guilty man is not allowed to leave the jail, home, or whatever the conditions of the sentence are...
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Uh... did I miss something? I stopped listening after the "legitimate rape" part, so I don't know whether they have done a 180º on the subject of civil rights (abortion, equal marriage) after that day. I only know the citizens of a red state like Missouri didn't agree with that.
Bad words, I'm sure he wished he could have back..

Last edited by KingCharizard; November 11th, 2012 at 09:04 AM.
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