Competitive Team Questions (and Incomplete Team Help)

[WolfMirage]

i chosse salamance with its moxie abilitly.

qustion should i add a poke that learns some good fighting move to counter rock and ice, which is salamance weakness and what about adding Nidoking

[Luke]

Platdude it would be BENEFICIAL if you explained how the sets work to new users rather than just throwing a bunch of mumbo jumbo at them like that. People aren't going to get better if they don't know HOW the sets work.

[Forever]

Originally Posted by WolfMirage

i chosse salamance with its moxie abilitly.

qustion should i add a poke that learns some good fighting move to counter rock and ice, which is salamance weakness and what about adding Nidoking

Metagross can learn Hammer Arm which can hurt both of those typings, or alternatively add in a Heatran (although that does create a fighting/water weakeness and enhance the ground weakness (although it helps out with Metragross' fire weakeness), if you're interested we can describe a Heatran set that could be of use to you considering it has a typing that defeats both. Nidoking isn't really viable because a lot of the mons in OU are stronger and it works better in the tier it's in due to typing, usefulness, etc. In OU you have other stronger ground types that can be of much more use to you, like Gastrodon, which also isn't really damaged by both of those. So depending on you, Heatran or Gastrodon - what'd you prefer? (There's other things too, but those things come to mind first as suiting to what you want).

[WolfMirage]

i chosse Gastrodon and i was asking about ninoking cause forever on the link they posted ninoking as a possbly thearh and ninoking as a pretty good move pool and it can learn toxic spikes and what do u think about teaching metagross magnet rise, if i do that then metagross will have only one weakness then or maybe i can teach magnet rise to another poke in order to set up for metagross coming out

so far heres the new team metagross, salamnce, Gastrodon and what nature should Gastrodon have

and forever id be really gratful if u can give me more chioces like that and what do u think of adding heracross

[Forever]

Originally Posted by WolfMirage

i chosse Gastrodon and i was asking about ninoking cause forever on the link they posted ninoking as a possbly thearh and ninoking as a pretty good move pool and it can learn toxic spikes and what do u think about teaching metagross magnet rise, if i do that then metagross will have only one weakness then or maybe i can teach magnet rise to another poke in order to set up for metagross coming out

so far heres the new team metagross, salamnce, Gastrodon and what nature should Gastrodon have

and forever id be really gratful if u can give me more chioces like that

Well generally it involves a lot of work to set that up and it's better on a dedicated team. You could add in an Air Balloon to help it out with taking one hit and being safe from EQ, or otherwise just switch to Salamence. As for the nature of Gastrodon, it's best to have Sassy or Calm depending on the attacks you opt to have. As for everything else, what other things are you considering having?

Oh, Hera is UU and can be useful, you're better off making it a revenge killer (with Choice Scarf) to kill the various psychic types in the tier than really allow it to set up though with SD. :(

[WolfMirage]

well i at least what to be able to cover all my bases and have as few as possible pokes with same weakness.i do like having at least pokes that can come out fast and hit hard

i was thinking maybe heracross for fighting and bug move and what about adding gengar

so what do think the last three should be, as u can c im pretty bad at this. if i use heracross, what nature should i go for

[Satycorn89]

Hi everyone.
So I have read and know the basics of EV training and I have just set up my team with all pokemon in level 1, to train them in the desired EVs.
As I don't have PokeRus, I used Macho Brace, and I was training my Snivy in his Speed Stat by defeating Basculins, which yield 2EVs in Speed.
I totally forgot of how the Macho Brace reduces the speed, but I thought it was a temporary effect when battling only?
I killed 4 Basculins to level up and I got only a 1raise in the Speed stat when the table appeared, what's happening? Shouldn't I have gotten (2*2)*4=16 EVs for killin the Basculins, which means ~+3 in Speeds ? I restarted the game and now my Snivy is in level 1 again (he was at level 13), however, can anyone clear this up for me?
Will the same thing happen if I use the Power Anklet??
I'd appreciate any help...

[Griffinbane]

1. Your pokemon doesn't have to be level 1 for EV training. It can be any level. Even 100 (unless you do EV training in gen 4).
2. Macho brace reduces the speed only in battle. When you remove it, it returns to normal.
3. Since EVs are no longer added upon level up, you won't see any ridiculous gains like +14 anymore. The additional stat points are added as you train. Don't worry there.
4. Same thing will happen when you use power items.

[Satycorn89]

Originally Posted by Griffinbane

1. Your pokemon doesn't have to be level 1 for EV training. It can be any level. Even 100 (unless you do EV training in gen 4).
2. Macho brace reduces the speed only in battle. When you remove it, it returns to normal.
3. Since EVs are no longer added upon level up, you won't see any ridiculous gains like +14 anymore. The additional stat points are added as you train. Don't worry there.
4. Same thing will happen when you use power items.

Okay, I meant that I picked my started, created my team, beat the League, etc. but I breed those pokemon and I'm training the babies which are level 1 instead, since the parents have already consumed their EVs.
My snivy's Speed went to 21 after leveling up and defeating those 4 Basculins, and I tried removing the Macho Brace, but it was still 21... And what do you mean by "EVs are no longer added upon level up, the additional stat points are added as you train."? Will I get the EVs that I lost here in another level-up or what? How will I know that?
Thanks.

[Griffinbane]

Nahh. Back in gen 4, what happened was that when you EV, you don't get the additional stat points until you level. So you could cache EV points and when you level, you get something big like +10. Like I said about gen 5, stat points are automatically added on when you train. Basically, as soon as you get 4 EVs, the point gets added to your stats immediately. You won't see it when you level. The other thing is that at low levels, sometimes you won't see the EVs (at least, you didn't in gen 4, donno if it's still true for gen 5). You don't lose those stats when you remove the brace. Holding the brace in battle will cut your speed in half, but it won't reduce the STAT itself.

As for telling whether or not you EV'd correctly, the only way of doing that is by using an IV calculator and keeping track of your EVs, trading it to someone with an AR so they can check, or by uploading to pokecheck.

[PlatinumDude]

Originally Posted by WolfMirage

i chosse Gastrodon and i was asking about ninoking cause forever on the link they posted ninoking as a possbly thearh and ninoking as a pretty good move pool and it can learn toxic spikes and what do u think about teaching metagross magnet rise, if i do that then metagross will have only one weakness then or maybe i can teach magnet rise to another poke in order to set up for metagross coming out

so far heres the new team metagross, salamnce, Gastrodon and what nature should Gastrodon have

and forever id be really gratful if u can give me more chioces like that and what do u think of adding heracross

Originally Posted by Forever

Well generally it involves a lot of work to set that up and it's better on a dedicated team. You could add in an Air Balloon to help it out with taking one hit and being safe from EQ, or otherwise just switch to Salamence. As for the nature of Gastrodon, it's best to have Sassy or Calm depending on the attacks you opt to have. As for everything else, what other things are you considering having?

Oh, Hera is UU and can be useful, you're better off making it a revenge killer (with Choice Scarf) to kill the various psychic types in the tier than really allow it to set up though with SD.

Despite the fact that Nidoking is UU, it can do well in OU because it gained Sheer Force in Gen V to make the most out of its wide special movepool. Sheer Force boosts the power of moves that have secondary effects, but prevent those effects from happening. Nidoking's movepool is chock-full of those moves, like Earth Power, Ice Beam and Thunderbolt. Like Nica said, Nidoking needs a lot of support to work well in OU:
-Earth Power
-Ice Beam
-Thunderbolt
-Flamethrower/Fire Blast
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb/Choice Scarf
Ability: Sheer Force

Gastrodon is a good choice, as Nica already said. It helps check rain teams with its Storm Drain ability and good bulk:
-Earthquake/Earth Power
-Ice Beam/Scald
-Toxic
-Recover
Nature: Sassy/Calm
EVs: 252 HP/4 SAtk/252 SDef
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain

Gengar works just fine in OU, thanks to its unpredictability:
-Substitute
-Disable/Pain Split/Hidden Power (Fire)/Thunderbolt
-Shadow Ball
-Focus Blast
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Black Sludge/Life Orb

or
-Shadow Ball
-Focus Blast
-Hidden Power (Fire)
-Protect
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP/252 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb

[Zeyon]

I would actually like to get involved in the PC Hosted Battle Servers. However, currently.. I'm still in the process of trying to put together even an Entry Level Team, as far as EV training, and movesets.

This is as good a thread as any to ask this question, I suppose.. considering I can get input from people actively involved in the Battles:

What are the different Tiers of the PC Battle Systems, and what are the details and specifics about each one? If there is a thread somewhere that already covers this, by all means.. please point me in that direction. Is it that obvious that I'm still trying to find where stuff that already exists is on these forums?

Sorry to any who read my posts and are like, "OMG, wtf n00b? That's already covered!" I really do look for existing threads, and it might simply be that I'm not understanding the extent of the posts, simply based off of the topic thread title itself.

But yeah.. any and all assistance would greatly be appreciated!

[WolfMirage]

what a good way to check substitue users

[PlatinumDude]

Originally Posted by WolfMirage

what a good way to check substitue users

Cloyster. Its Skill Link ability lets its multi-hit moves always hit 5 times, which works hand-in-hand with its Icicle Spear and Rock Blast:
-Shell Smash
-Icicle Spear
-Rock Blast
-Hydro Pump/Razor Shell
Nature: Naive/Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk/4 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: White Herb
Ability: Skill Link

Technician Breloom can also check Sub users, thanks to Technician boosting Bullet Seed to acceptable levels:
-Low Sweep
-Mach Punch
-Bullet Seed
-Spore/Stone Edge
Nature: Adamant/Jolly
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb/Choice Band
Ability: Technican

or
-Swords Dance
-Bullet Seed
-Mach Punch
-Spore
Nature: Adamant/Jolly
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb/Lum Berry
Ability: Technician

or
-Spore
-Bullet Seed
-Low Sweep/Force Palm
-Stone Edge
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Item: Choice Scarf
Ability: Technican

[WolfMirage]

when i playing pokemon showdown, i was useing metagross, salamance, gastrodon, gengar, hitmon(with rapid spin, found the poke to be very useful with this move), exploud. i found this team to work pretty good, but it just seem to lacking a little, but overall i beat most other team with semi-ease

[PlatinumDude]

Originally Posted by WolfMirage

when i playing pokemon showdown, i was useing metagross, salamance, gastrodon, gengar, hitmon(with rapid spin, found the poke to be very useful with this move), exploud. i found this team to work pretty good, but it just seem to lacking a little, but overall i beat most other team with semi-ease

Hitmontop is the best out of the Hitmons to use Rapid Spin with. Hitmonlee and Hitmonchan are on the frail side physically and would rather attack all-out.

Exploud doesn't cut it in OU. While it has a wide movepool, it doesn't pack enough of a punch to use it. That, and it's rather slow and a bit frail.

[WolfMirage]

i was usin absnow, that grass/ice poke, its quite i pain to deal with when it use leech seed and substitute

[PlatinumDude]

Originally Posted by WolfMirage

i was usin absnow, that grass/ice poke, its quite i pain to deal with when it use leech seed and substitute

If you were the one using Abomasnow, just let me say this: Abomasnow can't just be thrown on to any ordinary team, as its Snow Warning ability hinders any non-Ice Pokémon by chipping off their HP little by little by summoning Hail. Rather, Abomasnow should only be used on a team revolving around Hail.

[WolfMirage]

so between breloom and clystorer, which is the better poke for my team and what would the last poke that u would recommend for my team

[Forever]

Originally Posted by Zeyon

I would actually like to get involved in the PC Hosted Battle Servers. However, currently.. I'm still in the process of trying to put together even an Entry Level Team, as far as EV training, and movesets.

This is as good a thread as any to ask this question, I suppose.. considering I can get input from people actively involved in the Battles:

What are the different Tiers of the PC Battle Systems, and what are the details and specifics about each one? If there is a thread somewhere that already covers this, by all means.. please point me in that direction. Is it that obvious that I'm still trying to find where stuff that already exists is on these forums?

Sorry to any who read my posts and are like, "OMG, wtf n00b? That's already covered!" I really do look for existing threads, and it might simply be that I'm not understanding the extent of the posts, simply based off of the topic thread title itself.

But yeah.. any and all assistance would greatly be appreciated!

A better thread to mention this in would've been Competitive Team Questions :) Nevertheless here we follow Smogon's tiers, and all the guides/links to them are right here: http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=287472. So just have a read over them and if you have any questions feel free to ask any of us in CTH as we can help improve your skills, etc. But that's great that you wanna get interested, though!

[11wildy]

Originally Posted by PlatinumDude

If you were the one using Abomasnow, just let me say this: Abomasnow can't just be thrown on to any ordinary team, as its Snow Warning ability hinders any non-Ice Pokémon by chipping off their HP little by little by summoning Hail. Rather, Abomasnow should only be used on a team revolving around Hail.

You're right about the not on ordinary team thing, not about hail team only. Abomasnow cancels out other weather, and it is a good counter to rain/sand teams in general. If you don't battle a weather team, both players are hindered by hail so that's still not a disadvantage.

[WolfMirage]

do u think i drop hitmonchan in favor of Cloyster, cause cloyster can also learn rapid spin

[Forever]

Originally Posted by WolfMirage

do u think i drop hitmonchan in favor of Cloyster, cause cloyster can also learn rapid spin

You can use it to spin but it really works best as a Sweeper, and the spin set is dedicated, whereas Starmie can work as both a sweeper and a spinner all at once with Surf/Thunderbolt/Ice Beam and Rapid Spin.

[PlatinumDude]

Originally Posted by WolfMirage

do u think i drop hitmonchan in favor of Cloyster, cause cloyster can also learn rapid spin

Donphan or Starmie are better Rapid Spinners than Cloyster, since Cloyster's defensive typing is rather bad. Both Donphan and Starmie also are offensive threats. But Cloyster is still a viable Rapid Spinner because of its ability to check Multiscale Dragonite with Icicle Spear; however, it needs a special wall/sponge to help cover for its bad Special Defense.

Here are a couple possible sets for Donphan and Starmie, should you choose them as your spinners:
Donphan:
-Earthquake
-Rapid Spin
-Stealth Rock/Head Smash/Stone Edge
-Ice Shard
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 Def
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy

Starmie:
-Hydro Pump/Surf
-Ice Beam
-Thunderbolt
-Rapid Spin
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SAtk/4 SDef/252 Spe
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure

or
-Scald
-Psyshock/Ice Beam
-Rapid Spin
-Recover
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 HP/4 SAtk/252 Spe
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure

[WolfMirage]

then ill go with Donphan, cause i was thinkng of adding Cloyster to my team, as gastrogon isnt weak to eletricly, so it wont make to bad of a double weakness

so dose Donphan learn rapid spin or is that an egg move