< >
Hello, guest! Please log in or register.

The PokéCommunity

Go Back     The PokéCommunity Forums > Pokémon Gaming > Battling & Team Building RMT Salamence strikes back (updated the OP)

Notices

Battling & Team Building The forum designed for all of your Pokémon battling needs! Here you can battle, discuss, participate in events, receive help on your team, and much more!

Reply Post Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1    
Old November 3rd, 2015 (12:29 PM). Edited November 7th, 2015 by KorpiklaaniVodka.
KorpiklaaniVodka's Avatar
KorpiklaaniVodka KorpiklaaniVodka is offline
<----- can't teambuild
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Eastern Europe
Age: 17
Gender: Male
Nature: Adamant
Posts: 2,908
Soooooo yeah, over 6 months after my Mence thread, I decided to play with it again since well I'm bored and can't think of any forgotten treasures right now.

This team is currently 44-12 on the ladder, pretty decent I guess:
Spoiler:


(Yeah Merkel sucks.)


don't clefable (Salamence) @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Outrage
- Earthquake

Mence is the Pokemon I built the team around. It's your standard DPPt MixMence with excellent coverage, boasting the ability to 2HKO the entire metagame besides Fairy-types (and uhhh AV Tangrowth). This thing takes advantage of its great defensive ability, Intimidate, to switch into physical attackers, particularly Ground-types and Steel-types, with relative ease and threatening to KO it or the incoming switch-in. Since this Salamence lacks Iron Tail, fairies can be jerks to it, since most of them aren't 2HKOed by Earthquake or Fire Blast.
Explanation of moves
  • Draco Meteor - Salamence's main assault against bulky physical walls, like Hippowdon, Garchomp, Landorus-T and Slowbro, hurting them for at least 70% damage.
  • Fire Blast - used to OHKO Ferrothorn, Skarmory and Scizor. This move can also be used to play mindgames against walls if they know Mence knows Draco Meteor. Can also strike Celebi for some good damage.
  • Outrage - 2HKOes Chansey after SR, beats Tornadus-T and other AV mons and can be spammed once fairies/bulky steels are gone.
  • Earthquake - gets rid of Magnezone, which can really screw this team over. It also OHKOes Heatran easily, as well as 2HKO Mega Gardevoir.

don't heatran (Scizor) @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 60 Def / 200 SpD
Impish Nature
- Defog
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Roost

Since Salamence lacks Iron Tail, it's obvious Fairy-types are gonna trouble it somewhat, so Mega Scizor is present to put those trolls in their place. All of them bar Azumarill or Klefki are easily 2HKOed or OHKOed, and they usually can't win either, so yeah. With its good typing and ridiculous bulk, it can outlast its opponents fairly easily, especially with U-turn and Roost. This Scizor also happens to carry Defog, normally used on Pokemon who are either Pursuit bait (Lati@s) or weak to Stealth Rock. Scizor however, can easily destroy Tyranitar, Weavile and Bisharp while laughing at anything they try to do.
  • Defog - Removes hazards from the field, namely Stealth Rock, Spikes and Toxic Spikes. This means Salamence and Sylveon can switch in more easily.
  • U-turn - Used to pivot around, hits decently hard and lures in Pokemon such as Heatran, Bisharp, Dragonite and Assault Vest Metagross. Can also destroy Mew and Celebi.
  • Bullet Punch - Scizor's priority move, which doubles as a Fairy-killing move and can also 2HKO Tornadus-T after SR.
  • Roost - Keeps Scizor in good shape.

don't latios (Keldeo) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Scald
- Secret Sword
- Hydro Pump
- Icy Wind

Choice Scarf Keldeo isn't that common, as most Keldeo tend to run Choice Specs for a high amount of raw power or Expert Belt to retain the ability to wallbreak while still being able to switch moves. Admittedly, I used Expert Belt too until I hit about 1550, as even though this team won most of its battles against offense, it still had trouble as it was a bit too slow, even with Serperior. As such I swapped Expert Belt with Choice Scarf, which means Keldeo is now able to revenge kill many boosted threats, such as +1 Mega Charizard X and Mega Altaria, as well as take care of Mega Lopunny, Beedrill, Sceptile and Alakazam. It can even outspeed +2 Adamant Cloyster.
  • Scald - Self-explanatory. When in doubt, use it. It has a handy 30% chance of burn, posseses decent power and is hard to switch into.
  • Secret Sword - Also self-explanatory. Allows Keldeo to act as a pseudo-mixed attacker, revenge killing Mega Lopunny, Weavile and Bisharp. It also 2HKOes Chansey.
  • Hydro Pump - Can be used for more power, especially against boosted threats such as Mega Charizard X. Most of them are beaten or at least put into Bullet Punch's KO range.
  • Icy Wind - Deals more damage to Latios and Latias on the switch and slows down offensive threats. It also OHKOes Mega Sceptile.

don't talonflame (Serperior) @ Yache Berry
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Glare

Serperior is the team's wincon, boasting a 130BP move with a pseudo-NP effect thanks to its ability, 113 speed, and decent coverage. This Serperior has a rather interesting moveset since this team is rather weak to Electric-types, as they tend to carry HP Ice. For this reason, Yache Berry is the item of choice, as it allows Serperior to take 2 HP Ices from the likes of Raikou and Thundurus and KO back. Mega Manectric unfortunately is hard to battle against since it also has Flamethrower, and can take a +0 Leaf Storm. Steel-types can also be a pain, especially Heatran, as this Serperior lacks Hidden Power Fire.
  • Leaf Storm - lol
  • Dragon Pulse - Can beat Lati@s and Mega Charizard X at +2.
  • Hidden Power Rock - With this move, Serperior is able to threaten Tornadus-T, Mandibuzz and other bulky Flying-types who can otherwise rain on its parade. It also OHKOes Mega Charizard Y, which can otherwise be a ***** to stop.
  • Glare - This move is usually used at early-game on predicted switch-ins, such as Heatran.

don't weavile (Landorus-Therian) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Gravity

A weird moveset eh?

Stealth Rock is mandatory on almost every competitive team out there, and this team is no exception. Landorus-T is mainly used to give the team more freedom to switch into bulky Ground-types, as well as Klefki and Ferrothorn. Klefki and Rotom-W are absolutely trolled by this set, as Gravity is usually a very rare and gimmicky move, but Landorus-T makes excellent use of it. It just double-switches alongside Klefki or Rotom-W, uses Gravity as they try to Magnet Rise or Will-o-Wisp, and OHKO both of them with a strong Earthquake. Gravity also means whatever switches in will be struck even if it's a Flying-type.
  • Stealth Rock - Obligatory.
  • Earthquake - A strong move which can be spammed, especially with Gravity in play. Coming off 145 base attack, it can 2HKO a lot of threats. Even Ferrothorn is not safe after Stealth Rock.
  • Stone Edge - Can OHKO Tornadus-T and Talonflame and deals over 50% to Latios and Latias.
  • Gravity - A very interesting move which can allow Landorus-T to spam Earthquake with impunity as well as threaten Magnet Rise Klefki and Rotom-W.


don't scizor (Hoopa-Unbound) @ Life Orb
Ability: Magician
EVs: 160 Atk / 96 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Psychic
- Gunk Shot
- Drain Punch

Hoopa-U is one of those Pokemon who can really mess up balanced cores with little support, since it has enormous base stats, good coverage and the ability to switch into a lot of special attacks. It's also able to trash fairies such as Togekiss and Mega Altaria in one shot, as well as giving a lot of trouble to Clefable+Steel cores, which Salamence and Serperior can't really get past. It can also destroy Latios and Latias unless it eats a Draco Meteor on the switch. Originally I had Specs Sylveon in this slot, since it packs even higher special bulk and a stronger STAB Hyper Voice, but it had no way to get past bulky steels, especially Heatran and Ferrothorn, which Hoopa-U can easily 2HKO.
  • Dark Pulse - pwr
  • Psychic - Beats Mega Venusaur, Keldeo locked into Scald or a Hidden Power, Terrakion, Mega Heracross and other Fighting-types. Also deals a ton of damage to Mega Diancie.
  • Gunk Shot - A big **** you to all the fairies (save Klefki, which Lando-T can easily handle.)
  • Drain Punch - Defeats Heatran and Ferrothorn in two shots, OHKOes Tyranitar and Bisharp and beats the pink blobs.

As I said, this team is rather weak to Electric-types, as well as Hoopa-U (but what team doesn't hate Hoopa-U?). I'd really like to know if I can somewhat mitigate this problem... (don't want to get rid of Mence btw).
PokeCheats | Serebii | AMA | Rock-type Club | Legendary Club #Respect4Rhyperior #Respect4Garbodor #Respect4Tangrowth #FreeGenesect2016
Reply With Quote

Relevant Advertising!

  #2    
Old November 3rd, 2015 (2:05 PM).
Dark Azelf's Avatar
Dark Azelf Dark Azelf is offline
Dream Evil.
Gold Tier
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Age: 25
Gender: Male
Nature: Impish
Posts: 7,138
Quote:
Originally Posted by KorpiklaaniVodka View Post
Mence is the Pokemon I built the team around. It's your standard DPPt MixMence
Quote:
Originally Posted by KorpiklaaniVodka View Post
It's your standard DPPt MixMence
Quote:
Originally Posted by KorpiklaaniVodka View Post
DPPt MixMence
Quote:
Originally Posted by KorpiklaaniVodka View Post
DPPt

Pair/Bae x Poki <3
Reply With Quote
  #3    
Old November 3rd, 2015 (4:21 PM).
Nah's Avatar
Nah Nah is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: over there
Age: 23
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,384
I still don't get the point of running Baton Pass on Sylveon, especially a Specs set, when you literally can do the same thing by manually switching out. Slap HP Fire/Ground on it.
My Breeding Shop (open) | PC's Intro to Competitive Battling
Round Table: The PCNation | PCL Clan: Black Magic
Reply With Quote
  #4    
Old November 3rd, 2015 (5:58 PM).
PlatinumDude's Avatar
PlatinumDude PlatinumDude is online now
Nyeh?
Gold Tier
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Canada
Age: 21
Gender: Male
Nature: Hasty
Posts: 12,381
Send a message via Yahoo to PlatinumDude Send a message via Skype™ to PlatinumDude
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nah View Post
I still don't get the point of running Baton Pass on Sylveon, especially a Specs set, when you literally can do the same thing by manually switching out. Slap HP Fire/Ground on it.
Manual switching has a higher priority than Baton Pass. Because of Sylveon's low Speed, it can take a hit, then Baton Pass to get a frail teammate safely into battle.

Reply With Quote
  #5    
Old November 3rd, 2015 (7:45 PM).
Anti's Avatar
Anti Anti is online now
return of the king
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kobe's Reality
Gender:
Nature: Adamant
Posts: 10,647
can you explain the synergy more? i don't understand why these pokes are being used together.
amazing, pretty much
Reply With Quote
  #6    
Old November 4th, 2015 (4:41 AM).
KorpiklaaniVodka's Avatar
KorpiklaaniVodka KorpiklaaniVodka is offline
<----- can't teambuild
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Eastern Europe
Age: 17
Gender: Male
Nature: Adamant
Posts: 2,908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Azelf View Post
Yeeeeaaaaaaaaaaah I meant to say your cookie-cutter MixMence BEFORE it got banned lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti View Post
can you explain the synergy more? i don't understand why these pokes are being used together.
use it for yourself and see

Scizor + Mence + Sylveon = Fairy-Steel-Dragon core.
Keldeo - checks Steel-types.
Landorus-T - beats Mega Meta (w/o Ice Punch) and spams EQ with impunity.
Serp - main wincon.
PokeCheats | Serebii | AMA | Rock-type Club | Legendary Club #Respect4Rhyperior #Respect4Garbodor #Respect4Tangrowth #FreeGenesect2016
Reply With Quote
  #7    
Old November 4th, 2015 (7:51 AM).
Anti's Avatar
Anti Anti is online now
return of the king
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kobe's Reality
Gender:
Nature: Adamant
Posts: 10,647
Quote:
Originally Posted by KorpiklaaniVodka View Post
use it for yourself and see

Scizor + Mence + Sylveon = Fairy-Steel-Dragon core.
Keldeo - checks Steel-types.
Landorus-T - beats Mega Meta (w/o Ice Punch) and spams EQ with impunity.
Serp - main wincon.
this is not what synergy is. you're just repeating what they are. surely there is a reason you're using sylveon over, say, clefable? "more power" doesn't cut it. why do you need that power? why do you need specs hyper voice? the same thing applies to the other pokemon, along with why they are paired. fsd core is pretty meaningless when two of the three have no longevity whatsoever. "spams eq" sounds cool but isn't actually saying anything because the functionality of the set is completely self-evident. you need to explain how these pokemon support each other in precise terms. it would be nice to know as a rater since the synergy here is not particularly obvious.
amazing, pretty much
Reply With Quote
  #8    
Old November 4th, 2015 (8:58 AM).
KorpiklaaniVodka's Avatar
KorpiklaaniVodka KorpiklaaniVodka is offline
<----- can't teambuild
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Eastern Europe
Age: 17
Gender: Male
Nature: Adamant
Posts: 2,908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti View Post
this is not what synergy is. you're just repeating what they are. surely there is a reason you're using sylveon over, say, clefable? "more power" doesn't cut it. why do you need that power? why do you need specs hyper voice? the same thing applies to the other pokemon, along with why they are paired. fsd core is pretty meaningless when two of the three have no longevity whatsoever. "spams eq" sounds cool but isn't actually saying anything because the functionality of the set is completely self-evident. you need to explain how these pokemon support each other in precise terms. it would be nice to know as a rater since the synergy here is not particularly obvious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti View Post
fsd core is pretty meaningless when two of the three have no longevity whatsoever
ummm may I direct you to Sylveon's 95/65/130 bulk? and Mence's 95/80/80 bulk paired with Intimidate? These two don't need recovery, they are breakers... Hoopa-U for example needs all the power and coverage it can get, and has worse bulk than both when you think about it, since it has NO resistances.

also Sylveon is used over Clef for a lot of reasons, especially Baton Pass and sheer offensive pressure. Yes Scizor is a *****, but it can't even switch in that well since Hyper Voice 2HKOes offensive variants...
PokeCheats | Serebii | AMA | Rock-type Club | Legendary Club #Respect4Rhyperior #Respect4Garbodor #Respect4Tangrowth #FreeGenesect2016
Reply With Quote
  #9    
Old November 4th, 2015 (10:53 AM).
Anti's Avatar
Anti Anti is online now
return of the king
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kobe's Reality
Gender:
Nature: Adamant
Posts: 10,647
Quote:
Originally Posted by KorpiklaaniVodka View Post
ummm may I direct you to Sylveon's 95/65/130 bulk? and Mence's 95/80/80 bulk paired with Intimidate? These two don't need recovery, they are breakers... Hoopa-U for example needs all the power and coverage it can get, and has worse bulk than both when you think about it, since it has NO resistances.

also Sylveon is used over Clef for a lot of reasons, especially Baton Pass and sheer offensive pressure. Yes Scizor is a *****, but it can't even switch in that well since Hyper Voice 2HKOes offensive variants...
first off, it's incredibly irritating that your replies are so snide when you aren't even grasping basic concepts. spare me the condescension when you can't even grasp that "i use sylveon for power" is not a discussion of synergy or that dragon/fairy/steel is a defensive (not offensive) core. @_@

but here, let me spell it out for you. when you discuss the synergy of a team, you keep giving descriptions of pokemon. sylveon being a fairy-type or hitting hard or checking whatever the hell it is supposed to check is description. description is nice, but it's not analysis. it's not telling me why a pokemon is there, it's telling me the characteristics of the pokemon. in short, you're telling me "what" or maybe "how," but not "why." i could say "i'm using rampardos because it hits hard" but that's not answering "why" because a bunch of pokemon hit hard. adequate analysis explains how your pokemon support one another. so it's great that sylveon has way more power than clefable. why is that power necessary? does it support scizor or keldeo or another pokemon somehow? description and synergistic analysis often overlap, which is totally chill, but just saying "this poke is a badass," more or less, is not helpful.

when you reach a certain level of competence, it is not unreasonable for others to expect that you spell out the synergy of the team, especially with odd choices like defog mega scizor, yache berry hp rock serperior, and salamence at all. especially if you're proud of what you're presenting, it is nice to showcase how precise the teambuilding decisions you've made are. and if they're not as precise, then maybe that's something to include too. but it's not my job or anyone else's to deduce why you made the decisions you made. i can give a much more precise rate if you actually explain the mutually supportive capacities of your pokemon. i'm not going to put more effort into your rmt than you.

anyway, all i can really say now is that i have no idea how you deal with charizard (either of them) or talonflame since they can so easily wear out your very shoddy defenses against them. you're putting way too many eggs into the "i bet they won't see hp rock/glare coming!" basket. the team is also awfully slow which is hurting you defensively.
amazing, pretty much
Reply With Quote
  #10    
Old November 4th, 2015 (11:22 AM). Edited November 4th, 2015 by KorpiklaaniVodka.
KorpiklaaniVodka's Avatar
KorpiklaaniVodka KorpiklaaniVodka is offline
<----- can't teambuild
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Eastern Europe
Age: 17
Gender: Male
Nature: Adamant
Posts: 2,908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti View Post
first off, it's incredibly irritating that your replies are so snide when you aren't even grasping basic concepts. spare me the condescension when you can't even grasp that "i use sylveon for power" is not a discussion of synergy or that dragon/fairy/steel is a defensive (not offensive) core. @_@

but here, let me spell it out for you. when you discuss the synergy of a team, you keep giving descriptions of pokemon. sylveon being a fairy-type or hitting hard or checking whatever the hell it is supposed to check is description. description is nice, but it's not analysis. it's not telling me why a pokemon is there, it's telling me the characteristics of the pokemon. in short, you're telling me "what" or maybe "how," but not "why." i could say "i'm using rampardos because it hits hard" but that's not answering "why" because a bunch of pokemon hit hard. adequate analysis explains how your pokemon support one another. so it's great that sylveon has way more power than clefable. why is that power necessary? does it support scizor or keldeo or another pokemon somehow? description and synergistic analysis often overlap, which is totally chill, but just saying "this poke is a badass," more or less, is not helpful.

when you reach a certain level of competence, it is not unreasonable for others to expect that you spell out the synergy of the team, especially with odd choices like defog mega scizor, yache berry hp rock serperior, and salamence at all. especially if you're proud of what you're presenting, it is nice to showcase how precise the teambuilding decisions you've made are. and if they're not as precise, then maybe that's something to include too. but it's not my job or anyone else's to deduce why you made the decisions you made. i can give a much more precise rate if you actually explain the mutually supportive capacities of your pokemon. i'm not going to put more effort into your rmt than you.

anyway, all i can really say now is that i have no idea how you deal with charizard (either of them) or talonflame since they can so easily wear out your very shoddy defenses against them. you're putting way too many eggs into the "i bet they won't see hp rock/glare coming!" basket. the team is also awfully slow which is hurting you defensively.
Fine, let's try this: Dragon/Fairy/Steel isn't necessarily a defensive core. They have good offensive synergy together, with Dragon-types spamming their STAB moves and using fire moves to beat steels, and only fairies can really mess them up. This is where Steel comes in, in this case Mega Scizor, to defeat Clefable and other fairies rather easily, since most of them don't run HP Fire or Fire Blast. Finally, Fairy (Sylveon) beats dragons, who can really mess up Dragon/Steel cores.

Also I could very easily return the question: why would I use Clefable over Sylveon? In this specific team, I don't feel like I need Clefable's advantages, namely Thunder Wave, coverage moves or Calm Mind, since this team would fare worse against special attackers in general, as well as lose initial power. Sylveon's ability to destabilize balanced teams makes it much easier for Scizor to do its job as well as help Salamence and Keldeo wallbreak. The key here is initial power. Clefable needs set up.

Defog Mega Scizor isn't silly at all, it has always been one of Scizor's main advantages over Latios and Latias. It's not weak to Pursuit, can **** Tyranitar and Weavile very easily and also check Bisharp, and it can also combat fairies easily, which the Latis can't do for obvious reasons. Yache Berry Serp is good against Weavile and Electric-types with Ice coverage. And why do I use HP Rock? Well as you said this team also hates Zard and Talonflame, and +2 HP Rock can OHKO both of them. Mence... I just wanted to use it, don't hate me for that.

Also I've been lately considering giving Keldeo a Choice Scarf to fare better against offense, what do you think of that? I can wallbreak fairly easily with Mence and Sylveon, so not sure if I need Keldeo to do that as well.


(tbh you need a good lure or two to gain a lot of wins on the ladder...)
PokeCheats | Serebii | AMA | Rock-type Club | Legendary Club #Respect4Rhyperior #Respect4Garbodor #Respect4Tangrowth #FreeGenesect2016
Reply With Quote
  #11    
Old November 4th, 2015 (2:26 PM).
2Fruit's Avatar
2Fruit 2Fruit is offline
Aka 2Fruit
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Nature: Quirky
Posts: 122
A very small suggestion but you can cut a few speed EV's off serperior and still outspeed pokemon like thundurus, gengar and Latios.
<img src=http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Q89OdbX7A8E/hqdefault.jpg border=0 alt= />
Reply With Quote
  #12    
Old November 4th, 2015 (2:29 PM).
PlatinumDude's Avatar
PlatinumDude PlatinumDude is online now
Nyeh?
Gold Tier
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Canada
Age: 21
Gender: Male
Nature: Hasty
Posts: 12,381
Send a message via Yahoo to PlatinumDude Send a message via Skype™ to PlatinumDude
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Fruit View Post
A very small suggestion but you can cut a few speed EV's off serperior and still outspeed pokemon like thundurus, gengar and Latios.
Speed-tying with opposing Serperior (who run HP Fire/Rock) is more important than a tiny investment in bulk.

Reply With Quote
  #13    
Old November 4th, 2015 (10:42 PM).
Anti's Avatar
Anti Anti is online now
return of the king
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kobe's Reality
Gender:
Nature: Adamant
Posts: 10,647
Quote:
Originally Posted by KorpiklaaniVodka View Post
Fine, let's try this: Dragon/Fairy/Steel isn't necessarily a defensive core. They have good offensive synergy together, with Dragon-types spamming their STAB moves and using fire moves to beat steels, and only fairies can really mess them up. This is where Steel comes in, in this case Mega Scizor, to defeat Clefable and other fairies rather easily, since most of them don't run HP Fire or Fire Blast. Finally, Fairy (Sylveon) beats dragons, who can really mess up Dragon/Steel cores.

Also I could very easily return the question: why would I use Clefable over Sylveon? In this specific team, I don't feel like I need Clefable's advantages, namely Thunder Wave, coverage moves or Calm Mind, since this team would fare worse against special attackers in general, as well as lose initial power. Sylveon's ability to destabilize balanced teams makes it much easier for Scizor to do its job as well as help Salamence and Keldeo wallbreak. The key here is initial power. Clefable needs set up.

Defog Mega Scizor isn't silly at all, it has always been one of Scizor's main advantages over Latios and Latias. It's not weak to Pursuit, can **** Tyranitar and Weavile very easily and also check Bisharp, and it can also combat fairies easily, which the Latis can't do for obvious reasons. Yache Berry Serp is good against Weavile and Electric-types with Ice coverage. And why do I use HP Rock? Well as you said this team also hates Zard and Talonflame, and +2 HP Rock can OHKO both of them. Mence... I just wanted to use it, don't hate me for that.

Also I've been lately considering giving Keldeo a Choice Scarf to fare better against offense, what do you think of that? I can wallbreak fairly easily with Mence and Sylveon, so not sure if I need Keldeo to do that as well.

(tbh you need a good lure or two to gain a lot of wins on the ladder...)
ugh, no intention of going back and forth w/ you on the nature of the drag/fairy/steel core and other very pressing matters. i'm not interested in the rabbit hole known as arguing w/ you. you need to provide raters w/ more explanation of synergy, period. (notice how the m-scizor paragraph is still just description. listing a mon's advantages doesn't magically make it evident why you chose it.) i'm just giving examples of the types of questions i have--these are many more and you should give more explanation about building choices. edit the op with superior descriptions so i know what kinds of suggestions to make.

currently, i can only give you "get better checks for zard x/y, talon, tornadus, and clefable since they all get easy switch-in opportunities and you can't actually handle any of them very well." from the looks of it, sylveon is entirely expendable since besides impressive damage calculations i have no idea what it is adding to the team especially when heatran is enough of a problem since it's a sr setter that can ohko your hazard control. this is the reason description would be nice: when i offer to replace or alter this mon or a different one, i can keep in mind its original function. which is currently absent from the description besides power (and i guess beating dragons, except for the fact that charizard x and the latis actually run it over w/ their secondary stabs but yolo).

w/ regard to keld i just don't think mence+sylveon is a very good breaking duo since stalls and balances can wear them down so easily and simple combos like clefable+steel wall it so effortlessly. i don't think the keld slot is where you address that though since sylveon and mence themselves are the weaker points of it so running scarf to give the team more defensive flexibility isn't the worst idea.
amazing, pretty much
Reply With Quote
  #14    
Old November 5th, 2015 (7:30 AM).
KorpiklaaniVodka's Avatar
KorpiklaaniVodka KorpiklaaniVodka is offline
<----- can't teambuild
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Eastern Europe
Age: 17
Gender: Male
Nature: Adamant
Posts: 2,908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti View Post
ugh, no intention of going back and forth w/ you on the nature of the drag/fairy/steel core and other very pressing matters. i'm not interested in the rabbit hole known as arguing w/ you. you need to provide raters w/ more explanation of synergy, period. (notice how the m-scizor paragraph is still just description. listing a mon's advantages doesn't magically make it evident why you chose it.) i'm just giving examples of the types of questions i have--these are many more and you should give more explanation about building choices. edit the op with superior descriptions so i know what kinds of suggestions to make.

currently, i can only give you "get better checks for zard x/y, talon, tornadus, and clefable since they all get easy switch-in opportunities and you can't actually handle any of them very well." from the looks of it, sylveon is entirely expendable since besides impressive damage calculations i have no idea what it is adding to the team especially when heatran is enough of a problem since it's a sr setter that can ohko your hazard control. this is the reason description would be nice: when i offer to replace or alter this mon or a different one, i can keep in mind its original function. which is currently absent from the description besides power (and i guess beating dragons, except for the fact that charizard x and the latis actually run it over w/ their secondary stabs but yolo).

w/ regard to keld i just don't think mence+sylveon is a very good breaking duo since stalls and balances can wear them down so easily and simple combos like clefable+steel wall it so effortlessly. i don't think the keld slot is where you address that though since sylveon and mence themselves are the weaker points of it so running scarf to give the team more defensive flexibility isn't the worst idea.
updated the OP.

after reading this post, I'm starting to consider LO Hoopa-U over Specs Sylveon to retain a lot of special defense while gaining impressive coverage and mixed power, being able to threaten Steel-types + Clefable and Mega Venusaur a lot easier. what do you think?
PokeCheats | Serebii | AMA | Rock-type Club | Legendary Club #Respect4Rhyperior #Respect4Garbodor #Respect4Tangrowth #FreeGenesect2016
Reply With Quote
  #15    
Old November 5th, 2015 (9:01 AM).
Dark Azelf's Avatar
Dark Azelf Dark Azelf is offline
Dream Evil.
Gold Tier
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Age: 25
Gender: Male
Nature: Impish
Posts: 7,138
Quote:
Originally Posted by KorpiklaaniVodka View Post
updated the OP.

after reading this post, I'm starting to consider LO Hoopa-U over Specs Sylveon to retain a lot of special defense while gaining impressive coverage and mixed power, being able to threaten Steel-types + Clefable and Mega Venusaur a lot easier. what do you think?
Thats probably a good start, at least Hoopa can lure fairies etc with Gunk Shot for mence so that mence isnt utter **** every single game.

This team's main issue is it just gets worn down so easily and cant switch into stuff well esp like Talon or Zard's more than once. :\ Stuff like Flamethrower CM Clef shreds you, same with Torny-T. Basically all the stuff anti said. Nothing to take status also makes this team a sitting duck for stuff like Rotom-W, Scald, M-Sable and anything with status to wear down your whole team. Which brings me to the next issue. This team....just doesnt break anything and lacks the ability to clean up teams late game and its actually too passive imo and gives way too many turns to dangerous threats to set up or switch in which is bad because this team doesnt have many answers to those threats which is essentially a recipe for disaster.

Pair/Bae x Poki <3
Reply With Quote
  #16    
Old November 5th, 2015 (10:22 AM).
Anti's Avatar
Anti Anti is online now
return of the king
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kobe's Reality
Gender:
Nature: Adamant
Posts: 10,647
yeah man i mean i appreciate the effort on the descriptions, but just to use sylveon as an example once again, you say the team needs its initial power...but why? i don't see why this is besides the fact that you're presumably filling in a "breaker" slot, but between landorus, serperior, and salamence, the team has power (at least looking at sheer numbers), but it doesn't have a lot of staying power and everything gets worn down easily. clefable helps with these problems while sylveon worsens them. i'm not interested in a sylveon vs. clef debate here, but rather i am trying to illustrate how interconnected team dynamics are and how you want to think about and explain them. (i also don't consider "it's better against balance" [sub in a different playstyle here] as very specific since team styles are much more variable than such discriptions, which are annoyingly ubiquitous, ever seem to acknowledge.)

anyway, back on topic. from what i can gather from what you've said and the make-up of the team, it's filling in roles rather than attempting to make synergistic choices. one example is serperior, which is here to serve as the "win condition." i find it an odd choice for a wincon on a team that really struggles with all of its checks. anything can serve as a win condition in a given match depending on team match-up, so you want mons to support each other so that you can execute a gameplan to set up the relevant wincon. in this case, the team is not equipped to do that for serperior. similarly, salamence is not very well supported because any clefable w/ a fire move pretty much 6-0es the team, which makes salamence not just walled in those match-ups but an active liability since you can't afford to let clefable come in. sylveon definitely feels this way since it "adds power" and thus seems to be filling a desired role of hard hitter, but it too struggles with the mons your team can't switch into, thus making it a poor synergistic fit with serperior in particular but also the rest of your team which can't heal itself and is worn by hazards, as mentioned previously. your nod to hoopa-unbound over sylveon is definitely a step in the right direction in that you're building around threats to your core members rather than filling roles (almost reminiscent of more novice teams that fill in "physical sweeper" or "special wall"), but if i'm being honest i'd rethink the fundamental structure of your team to support the core members you want to use.

so let's say this team is a salamence team, as it seems to be based on the title and the op. personally, i think salamence is garbage, but if you want to try to make it work, you need to account for its shortcomings and also have teammates who appreciate its strengths. the obvious shortcoming is that mega altaria, azumarill, and clefable switch in for free, and all three of these pokemon are extremely dangerous. you chose mega scizor to cover these mons, but alt and clef can run fire coverage to bypass it, and altaria in particular can beat it with cotton guard or magnezone support. if you want a defensive mega to deal with this, venusaur actually looks like it makes a lot more sense since it cannot be trapped and is a much stronger check against clefable and altaria. alternatively, a more offensively based support option that can check those pokes is excadrill with sand support, though you'll want an azumarill check with that. also, whatever you choose to round out an offensive core w/ salamence, it should definitely pressure these pokes so that your opponent pays for bringing them in. so for example a poke like gengar makes a ton of sense, especially if you run it w/ scizor. talonflame + mega venusaur + strong hazard control looks more coherent as well and gives you some speed control. you can always lure fairies with a lo garchomp which makes more sense than landorus here if you can get a better answer to charizard x. these aren't particularly well thought through, but what i'm suggesting is that you want the synergy of your core to be very tight and precise (as much as possible) so that it's easier to give more specific support. it will make the team's structure appear less haphazard.
amazing, pretty much
Reply With Quote
  #17    
Old November 7th, 2015 (10:45 AM).
KorpiklaaniVodka's Avatar
KorpiklaaniVodka KorpiklaaniVodka is offline
<----- can't teambuild
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Eastern Europe
Age: 17
Gender: Male
Nature: Adamant
Posts: 2,908
...right, so after testing Hoopa-U and LO Gengar, I will replace Sylveon with the former. I realized I needed Hoopa-U's great special bulk, since it has the ability to switch into special attacks, whereas with Gengar I had to predict a lot of switches, which was a bit stupid.

Would be interested in trying Mega Venusaur over Scizor but that'd mean I'd probably need some sort of hazard control.
PokeCheats | Serebii | AMA | Rock-type Club | Legendary Club #Respect4Rhyperior #Respect4Garbodor #Respect4Tangrowth #FreeGenesect2016
Reply With Quote
  #18    
Old November 7th, 2015 (11:03 AM).
Anti's Avatar
Anti Anti is online now
return of the king
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kobe's Reality
Gender:
Nature: Adamant
Posts: 10,647
hoopa unbound is definitely making your offensive core to actually break things but it's only making the defensive weaknesses of the team worse. i think you need to compress a bit and make the team tighter/more efficient with the other slots so you don't have to make tradeoffs like that.

(the suggestions i gave above are pretty much assuming that you're doing more of an overhaul than a tweaking of the team, ie gengar indeed is terrible if you're leaving serp on the team i just don't get why you'd do that.)
amazing, pretty much
Reply With Quote
Reply Post Reply
Quick Reply

Sponsored Links
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


  All times are GMT -8. The time now is 3:15 PM.


Contact Us Archive Privacy Statement Terms of Service Top