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View Poll Results: Would you help make a Community Hack?
Yes 19 54.29%
Possibly 14 40.00%
No 2 5.71%
Voters: 35. You may not vote on this poll

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  #26    
Old January 22nd, 2013 (04:37 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthatron View Post
This.
I suggest we allow anyone to suggest ideas, some sort of council who decides on which ideas should (if actually viable) be voted on, and then allow the masses to vote "yay" or "nay".
I like this idea better than my idea lol. Ideas are easy for anyone to suggest, but the problem right now quality and organisation. Some folks are torn between having a leader and just having people vote.

If we have a leader, what would his/her purpose be? It'd be to organise who is doing what and to make sure everything is following the story and the sequence of events are reasonable (i.e you don't find a baby level 1 Lugia behind your house followed by your prof giving you a masterball for the Rayquaza flying around in route 1). Though this leader's role can be decided by a community vote/poll. Hell to decide this whole governing force we should have a community vote. Sitting here throwing out obvious advantages and disadvantages will get us no where.
  #27    
Old January 22nd, 2013 (05:15 AM). Edited January 22nd, 2013 by miksy91.
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There are certain reasons why a community project is unlikely to happen and yet if it did, it would most likely turn out something disappointing.
For this kind of a project, having a leader would be mandatory. And not just any kind of a leader but a person who actually understands a whole lot more than anybody else in the team. To sum it up, the leader would have to have knowledge behind everything the hacking tools there are for, and know how to use them properly. Why is this? Well, there are several reasons:


1) Forming the rom hack
The project leader would be be the one to collect all the parts together, and insert them in the main rom file. He would also be the only one actually modifying the data of the main "hack-rom" file. Additionally, the project leader would have to have a control behind everything that is going on; inside the actual rom file that is. He would get the resources (scripts, text data, maps, graphics, ...) from the other team members through Dropbox, Google Docs (or a site similar to those) and bring them together. This process would require proper understanding behind hex editors and the functions they offer (such as copying data). That way, everything could be kept in order and even if there were many newbies around to help with mapping and stuff similar to that, the leader would ensure nothing unwanted would happen, such as glitches behind sharing IPS files and patching them or similar.


2) Assisting others
It might feel forming the rom hack on his/her own would be enough for the project leader but if that was all the leader did, the hack wouldn't go too far. The leader would also have to be the one any team member could ask for help, when they're not sure what they should do, or how to accomplish doing a certain task. If one of the main scripters of the hack couldn't figure out how to make some code loop in the way the project leader wanted to, the leader could actually solve the problem for the scripter and the job would get done. These kind of things would also help out everyone in the process; the leader would learn how to handle situations like a business executive should and the "employees" would learn during the process as well.


And not even these two would be enough of the leader. He would have to be kind but also demanding. If something the "employee" does, doesn't go in the way he wants, he doesn't have to accept that as itself either. Instead, he should give some suggestion about what to improve with it and most likely, take the improved version as that. Some kind of "reward" would also have to be given for job well done, words of gratitude should be enough in this case as no money is rolling in the business.


And the final obstacle would be forming the storyline and planning the major events. Who would be the one to respond of these? One could say I'm wrong here but again, I have to say the project leader. Why exactly? Couldn't a storyline writer be enough?

The problem about someone writing the storyline or planning events for the leader to be shared with others, is the fact that it's difficult for the project leader and a writer to find the required "connection". If the storyline writer isn't familiar with the hacking process and things that can be done (and also things that cannot be done, if there are any), it is extremely difficult for him/her to be able to assist the leader in the wanted way. I have seen this myself by getting suggestions that don't necessarily add anything to the gameplay. A person without the knowledge is not rather useful as a storyline writer.


All in all, the hack should rely on the shoulders of the project leader. Of course having more than one project leader is always possible but still, at least one of them must have proper understanding of the processor the system uses, hardware and game specifics such as scripting engine, map headers and several different structures.

Then again...
Spoiler:
Would anything really make this separate from any other hacks we've got there? Most ones really depend on a one person controlling the progress, just like this one would.
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  #28    
Old January 22nd, 2013 (08:17 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthatron View Post
This.

But if we do decide on a Dictatorship, I shotgun the role of Dictator.

I suggest we allow anyone to suggest ideas, some sort of council who decides on which ideas should (if actually viable) be voted on, and then allow the masses to vote "yay" or "nay".

That said, I still don't like the idea of a community hack. Though, I suppose, if there is enough support I would work on it.
I like the way you think, haha.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NarutoActor View Post
In a republic(like that of the u.s.) do you let everyone vote on every bill? No the majority just vote for the few to "represent them". This is a similar case, and I am sure you can find at least 20 qualified, willing hackers. That is if the project is represented in a professional way.
Frankly, our government is failing right now, WE DO NOT WANT TO IMITATE IT. They can't make a decision of the debt ceiling, we are $16 trillion in debt, and the only reason the electoral college was installed was because back in 1787, it was a lot harder to count votes, now it is done almost completely overnight. Is this how we want our hack to go? No. We need our own way.



Before we can talk ideas and such, we need a hierarchy of how it is going to go down. Maybe, a few people draw up a bunch of different designs and then we find the best one.

Then, we need to go in and pretty much get a complete outline of the story, through voting and such. Maybe have 3 or more volunteers come forward and write basic outlines. Then, we would vote on the best and expand it. This process should not be rushed and everything story wise should be finished before A-map or XSE is ever opened.

Then, we divvy up the tasks and create a bunch of team threads so that each group (Scripters, mappers, graphic artists, etc.) all have their own thread where they can post and organize their information. These threads will be overlooked by a group of selected leaders who keep the content relevant.

Now, we would need to insert all of the needed data. Any new items, new pokemon, basically build a rom base that we could then proceed to build the hack off of.

Then, we complete the story. Only the story line. No extra trainers, not side quests. Just the story. When the story events are done, and we all agree it looks and works right. Finally, we fill in all the extra details like those random trainers who say "Shorts are comfortable!" and such.

This whole thing should take a long time if we want to do it right. But before we do anything, we need a foundation of leaders and workers. Maybe one leader per group who reports back to the main leaders. What ever we decide to do, we need establish "how" before "what".


These are just my thoughts, but notice how many times I said "we", if anything, it needs to be all of us. Anyone who wants to help.
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  #29    
Old January 22nd, 2013 (02:07 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miksy91 View Post
For this kind of a project, having a leader would be mandatory. And not just any kind of a leader but a person who actually understands a whole lot more than anybody else in the team. To sum it up, the leader would have to have knowledge behind everything the hacking tools there are for, and know how to use them properly. Why is this? Well, there are several reasons:


1) Forming the rom hack
The project leader would be be the one to collect all the parts together, and insert them in the main rom file. He would also be the only one actually modifying the data of the main "hack-rom" file. Additionally, the project leader would have to have a control behind everything that is going on; inside the actual rom file that is. He would get the resources (scripts, text data, maps, graphics, ...) from the other team members through Dropbox, Google Docs (or a site similar to those) and bring them together. This process would require proper understanding behind hex editors and the functions they offer (such as copying data). That way, everything could be kept in order and even if there were many newbies around to help with mapping and stuff similar to that, the leader would ensure nothing unwanted would happen, such as glitches behind sharing IPS files and patching them or similar.
Err, he doesn't really need to insert anything by himself. He simply needs to keep a copy of the ROM before it's sent out.
I.E:
1) New map needs making, leader gives a copy of the game to whoever is doing it.
2) Leader gets the ROM back and checks to see everything is in working order.
3) Leader copies the updated version and gives it to whoever needs it next

That way nothing is messed up, and nothing gets corrupted. I'm pretty sure that IPS patcher is a sufficient program and errors are caused on the user side.



Quote:
Originally Posted by miksy91
2) Assisting others
It might feel forming the rom hack on his/her own would be enough for the project leader but if that was all the leader did, the hack wouldn't go too far. The leader would also have to be the one any team member could ask for help, when they're not sure what they should do, or how to accomplish doing a certain task. If one of the main scripters of the hack couldn't figure out how to make some code loop in the way the project leader wanted to, the leader could actually solve the problem for the scripter and the job would get done. These kind of things would also help out everyone in the process; the leader would learn how to handle situations like a business executive should and the "employees" would learn during the process as well.
Though I agree with you the leader needs to have some sufficient knowledge, I also disagree. It's a community hack, if someone gets stuck the entire community is their resource not just the leader. I'm sure someone around is willing to lend a hand or has an idea of what's wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by miksy91
And not even these two would be enough of the leader. He would have to be kind but also demanding. If something the "employee" does, doesn't go in the way he wants, he doesn't have to accept that as itself either. Instead, he should give some suggestion about what to improve with it and most likely, take the improved version as that. Some kind of "reward" would also have to be given for job well done, words of gratitude should be enough in this case as no money is rolling in the business.
Sounds good, kind of expecting leader to be doing that anyways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by miksy91
And the final obstacle would be forming the storyline and planning the major events. Who would be the one to respond of these? One could say I'm wrong here but again, I have to say the project leader. Why exactly? Couldn't a storyline writer be enough?

The problem about someone writing the storyline or planning events for the leader to be shared with others, is the fact that it's difficult for the project leader and a writer to find the required "connection". If the storyline writer isn't familiar with the hacking process and things that can be done (and also things that cannot be done, if there are any), it is extremely difficult for him/her to be able to assist the leader in the wanted way. I have seen this myself by getting suggestions that don't necessarily add anything to the gameplay. A person without the knowledge is not rather useful as a storyline writer.
The director could always shoot down ideas and stories that aren't possible, then finally out of the ones that are possible we could make a community decision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by miksy91
All in all, the hack should rely on the shoulders of the project leader. Of course having more than one project leader is always possible but still, at least one of them must have proper understanding of the processor the system uses, hardware and game specifics such as scripting engine, map headers and several different structures.

Then again...
Spoiler:
Would anything really make this separate from any other hacks we've got there? Most ones really depend on a one person controlling the progress, just like this one would.
I don't agree that the leader would have such an unbearable load, but I do agree that he/she/they need to know atleast what they are doing.

As for what makes this different, it's made by the community and represents everyone's accumulated hard word


Quote:
Originally Posted by karatekid552 View Post
I like the way you think, haha.



Frankly, our government is failing right now, WE DO NOT WANT TO IMITATE IT. They can't make a decision of the debt ceiling, we are $16 trillion in debt, and the only reason the electoral college was installed was because back in 1787, it was a lot harder to count votes, now it is done almost completely overnight. Is this how we want our hack to go? No. We need our own way.



Before we can talk ideas and such, we need a hierarchy of how it is going to go down. Maybe, a few people draw up a bunch of different designs and then we find the best one.

Then, we need to go in and pretty much get a complete outline of the story, through voting and such. Maybe have 3 or more volunteers come forward and write basic outlines. Then, we would vote on the best and expand it. This process should not be rushed and everything story wise should be finished before A-map or XSE is ever opened.

Then, we divvy up the tasks and create a bunch of team threads so that each group (Scripters, mappers, graphic artists, etc.) all have their own thread where they can post and organize their information. These threads will be overlooked by a group of selected leaders who keep the content relevant.

Now, we would need to insert all of the needed data. Any new items, new pokemon, basically build a rom base that we could then proceed to build the hack off of.

Then, we complete the story. Only the story line. No extra trainers, not side quests. Just the story. When the story events are done, and we all agree it looks and works right. Finally, we fill in all the extra details like those random trainers who say "Shorts are comfortable!" and such.

This whole thing should take a long time if we want to do it right. But before we do anything, we need a foundation of leaders and workers. Maybe one leader per group who reports back to the main leaders. What ever we decide to do, we need establish "how" before "what".


These are just my thoughts, but notice how many times I said "we", if anything, it needs to be all of us. Anyone who wants to help.
That sounds like a good process, though everyone is still debating whether it' worth their time or not. I think it's worth while, if it looks like it's failing...well try harder.
  #30    
Old January 23rd, 2013 (01:15 AM). Edited January 23rd, 2013 by miksy91.
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I like how even though you don't know much, you still put that little knowledge in use to make me (and others here) explain why things go the way they do. So just felt like saying, you have really got some spirit there! If you want to, you may become a good rom hacker one day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FBI agent View Post
Err, he doesn't really need to insert anything by himself. He simply needs to keep a copy of the ROM before it's sent out.
I.E:
1) New map needs making, leader gives a copy of the game to whoever is doing it.
2) Leader gets the ROM back and checks to see everything is in working order.
3) Leader copies the updated version and gives it to whoever needs it next

That way nothing is messed up, and nothing gets corrupted. I'm pretty sure that IPS patcher is a sufficient program and errors are caused on the user side.
The way you describe it here, sharing the one and same rom file for others time after another might work in some kind of a situation but it's a very impractical way of doing it here. This would mean the hack wouldn't progress much at the time and team members might either turn lazy or annoyed by not being able to do anything at all.

On the other hand, the team members couldn't provide the project leader with ips patches containg all the data they changed (in certain period of time). Why exactly?

Most of the data in rom must be defined to be there. This is done with pointers. In other words, data couldn't be stored anywhere in rom unless a pointer would be changed to look for the data in that offset. So it it's safe to say (and actually confirm it too!) that IPS patches have some sort of a data structure that contain the offset of where data will be written. To be precise, IPS patches work like this;

Code:
[Offset to write to (3-byte value)][How many bytes to write to (2-byte value)][Data to write to...] // and the same thing loops over and over again....
Then, we have people editing the rom files with programs using dynamic pointers or ones using tools such as FSF (Free Space Finder) for help. There are used to look for free space in rom (if not defined in any way, the "earliest" part of it) where new data could be written. So people just tend to use the offsets/rom addresses those programs give them and input new data in those offsets.

Now, if team members could work on the same rom file (and share it back to the leader when they finish a certain task is), it's very likely they happen to write data in the same rom addresses. Now if the leader uses two ips patches that share even a small part of the same rom area where data is stored, all those new things implemented in the two patch files become "corrupted" in the game.

Basically, IPS (or any kinds of patching formats) is/are not gonna work in this kind of a project. Therefore, the only possible option I see is the project leader forming the hack himself, with the resources brought from the other team members. Of course the hack could also rely on a disassembly (which would probably be the most efficient way of doing the hack) but none of the team members could understand any of it so this idea would obviously have to be scrapped.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FBI agent View Post
Though I agree with you the leader needs to have some sufficient knowledge, I also disagree. It's a community hack, if someone gets stuck the entire community is their resource not just the leader. I'm sure someone around is willing to lend a hand or has an idea of what's wrong.
In this case, the hack wouldn't become much of an "achievement" but you're probably right, it wouldn't be an obstacle with being able to progress with the hack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FBI agent View Post
The director could always shoot down ideas and stories that aren't possible, then finally out of the ones that are possible we could make a community decision.
If the storyline writer doesn't have any kind of an understanding behind the hacking process, he or she isn't really needed. Besides...

Quote:
Originally Posted by koolboyman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miksy91
Looking forward to checking out Prism though! It's also good to hear you've put real thought into storyline and planning there. As personal opinion, I think planning and coding should go hand in hand. If you don't have imagination, what is the use of knowing how to program?
Exactly!
Pushing the "all-knowing" project leader to work on the story instead of just using his brain on creating complicated events can develop the guy in a completely different way. Personally, I have no trouble creating even complicated codes from scratch. But a whole different issue is to plan long, storyline-related events, and what happens in them exactly.

Besides, there are a few great hackers out there who already have all the "needs" to become the project leader. Personally, I wouldn't apply for the job as I'm already the project leader of my own hack (which sounds a bit silly but the result isn't really much different); I create things with any kinds of resources available and help out others with their projects. Only thing this job is not containing is the "distribution & building" process which is no way "not-doable".

Quote:
Originally Posted by FBI agent View Post
I don't agree that the leader would have such an unbearable load, but I do agree that he/she/they need to know atleast what they are doing.
It wouldn't be unbearable. The most things the leader did was to build and plan the hack on his/her methods. Of course it would be a good idea to a couple of "side leaders" who would assist other team members who don't know as much as they do. But the project leader would be the one to watch over them though.
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  #31    
Old January 23rd, 2013 (04:03 AM).
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What if we were to designate one all around good hacker as "the assembler"? Then, as things are completed, they could be sent to him to insert into the rom.
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  #32    
Old January 23rd, 2013 (05:42 AM).
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I still don't think it's needed. If anything whoever wants to work on it can always do what they want on a separate ROM then insert it into a main ROM at the time they get it. The only problem with this is scripting. Scripters will still have to wait to get the ROM before they can actually do much. Things like maps, sprites and such can always be made on a third party ROM then shifted onto the main ROM. In fact it's always better to do it first on another ROM or a copy before moving it into the main ROM. By that I mean you can always make a map/sprite and save the map/sprite and insert it later (actually follows for a lot of other things too, simple scripts as well).

At anyrate, if everyone is working hard to find reasons why this won't work, then this won't work. There are definitely ways around these problems and its not even hard to come up with solutions. Clearly a lot of people are against the idea and want to shoot it down. I'm not trying to insult anyone, but really...
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  #33    
Old January 23rd, 2013 (06:41 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FBI agent View Post
I still don't think it's needed. If anything whoever wants to work on it can always do what they want on a separate ROM then insert it into a main ROM at the time they get it. The only problem with this is scripting. Scripters will still have to wait to get the ROM before they can actually do much. Things like maps, sprites and such can always be made on a third party ROM then shifted onto the main ROM. In fact it's always better to do it first on another ROM or a copy before moving it into the main ROM. By that I mean you can always make a map/sprite and save the map/sprite and insert it later (actually follows for a lot of other things too, simple scripts as well).

At anyrate, if everyone is working hard to find reasons why this won't work, then this won't work. There are definitely ways around these problems and its not even hard to come up with solutions. Clearly a lot of people are against the idea and want to shoot it down. I'm not trying to insult anyone, but really...
I don't really feel that anyone is just pointing out problems. Anyone who has posted has shown at least some interest in the idea and posted solutions to problems other people have suggested.
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  #34    
Old January 23rd, 2013 (07:00 AM).
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I had this idea too. In fact, I've been working on this idea for months (September, to be exact) in TOP SECRET... Well, until right now. Lulz. I had to mention it finally cuz this is basically what I'm doing, although kinda different. I don't want to release too much, but just know I'm doing it Smash Bros. style, that is, bringing a lot of different games into one.

In fact, I've already gotten all the hacks I plan to include together with support/permission from 7/8 of their creators, and made nearly all the maps for their hacks so... yeah. I don't work well in teams (sry), but I'd appreciate any support. :D

(Not giving out what hacks are in it, but I can take screenshots of the game if you want proof I guess. Dunno why I'd lie.)
  #35    
Old January 23rd, 2013 (08:21 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FBI agent View Post
At anyrate, if everyone is working hard to find reasons why this won't work, then this won't work. There are definitely ways around these problems and its not even hard to come up with solutions. Clearly a lot of people are against the idea and want to shoot it down. I'm not trying to insult anyone, but really...
Personally, I'm no way against the idea. To tell you the truth, if I was to make another rom hack which would be of some gen III pokemon game (or any other game I feel I couldn't finish on my own), I'd probably acquire a team for it. A few people might be enough though, to remain the needed "organization" behind everything.

But even if it may seem like I was pointing "impossibilities" as the requirements for the leader, they aren't like that. Either way, the fact remains that the leader of the project should be quite skillful from the start; he/she would have to be familiar with hex editors and the game
mechanisms. Understanding assembly wouldn't hurt either.

Then again, there really are people who can do all this! If one of them wants to start a community project, I don't see why it could not happen.
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  #36    
Old January 23rd, 2013 (08:26 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthatron View Post
I don't really feel that anyone is just pointing out problems. Anyone who has posted has shown at least some interest in the idea and posted solutions to problems other people have suggested.
I'm a little eager to get this off the "just an idea" phase and more into a "lets get started and see if it works" phase. Maybe that's showing a little. Yes, I know it's unwise to start something without fully knowing everything about it, but this seems like one of those things that will organize itself once it starts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hinkage View Post
I had this idea too. In fact, I've been working on this idea for months (September, to be exact) in TOP SECRET... Well, until right now. Lulz. I had to mention it finally cuz this is basically what I'm doing, although kinda different. I don't want to release too much, but just know I'm doing it Smash Bros. style, that is, bringing a lot of different games into one.

In fact, I've already gotten all the hacks I plan to include together with support/permission from 7/8 of their creators, and made nearly all the maps for their hacks so... yeah. I don't work well in teams (sry), but I'd appreciate any support. :D

(Not giving out what hacks are in it, but I can take screenshots of the game if you want proof I guess. Dunno why I'd lie.)
Huh? I can't get my head around what you're trying to say, wrong thread perhaps?
  #37    
Old January 23rd, 2013 (09:49 AM).
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Basically what I said is that I started working on a community hack before this thread was even made, but only told those who were involved. It's currently underway and has a bunch of stuff done already.

It's not quite the same as everyone working together to make a hack, but it's like a crossover of many different hacks.
  #38    
Old January 23rd, 2013 (12:46 PM).
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Originally Posted by FBI agent View Post
I'm a little eager to get this off the "just an idea" phase and more into a "lets get started and see if it works" phase. Maybe that's showing a little. Yes, I know it's unwise to start something without fully knowing everything about it, but this seems like one of those things that will organize itself once it starts.
There's going to have to be a lot more support before that happens. Also, given the size and prominence of the project, I'd really advise against starting without having things planned out; things would become far too disorganized.
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  #39    
Old January 23rd, 2013 (02:20 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hinkage View Post
Basically what I said is that I started working on a community hack before this thread was even made, but only told those who were involved. It's currently underway and has a bunch of stuff done already.

It's not quite the same as everyone working together to make a hack, but it's like a crossover of many different hacks.
That's not what this is about at all. And you're not really alone in doing this. I get PM'd weekly by different people trying to "fuse all the good hacks in to one super hack" and I always turn them down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by machomuu View Post
There's going to have to be a lot more support before that happens. Also, given the size and prominence of the project, I'd really advise against starting without having things planned out; things would become far too disorganized.
I agree. I, for one, am not opening a single tool until we at least hack a story that the community can agree on. Also some core points have to be decided: Fakemon; Cameos; Other things that I can't think of right now.
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  #40    
Old January 23rd, 2013 (03:34 PM).
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Originally Posted by Darthatron View Post
I agree. I, for one, am not opening a single tool until we at least hack a story that the community can agree on. Also some core points have to be decided: Fakemon; Cameos; Other things that I can't think of right now.
I agree with that, though I think that we're still in the position where we're asking "Should we make a community hack?" rather than "What should we include in this hack?".

While I can see that there are a few very supportive members in this thread I would say that only 6-7 actually have said they would like to help/ will eventually join if there are enough people working on it. I would actually like to see how many members have been reading this thread and just not said anything thus far. If anything is to happen it would need the broader support of the community and right now only a handful of people have raised a positive opinion/ outlook on all of this. Even if we had 5 people saying "Yes, I will work on this" and 20 others saying "I will join if other people join" then that would lend some gravitas to actually getting up and doing something about it. We haven't hit the point where there is a sizable chunk of the community is at least thinking about getting involved.
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  #41    
Old January 23rd, 2013 (03:38 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFuji View Post
I agree with that, though I think that we're still in the position where we're asking "Should we make a community hack?" rather than "What should we include in this hack?".

While I can see that there are a few very supportive members in this thread I would say that only 6-7 actually have said they would like to help/ will eventually join if there are enough people working on it. I would actually like to see how many members have been reading this thread and just not said anything thus far. If anything is to happen it would need the broader support of the community and right now only a handful of people have raised a positive opinion/ outlook on all of this. Even if we had 5 people saying "Yes, I will work on this" and 20 others saying "I will join if other people join" then that would lend some gravitas to actually getting up and doing something about it. We haven't hit the point where there is a sizable chunk of the community is at least thinking about getting involved.

So, I guess the first thing to do is make a roster. I'm deffinately in!
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  #42    
Old January 23rd, 2013 (04:17 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFuji View Post
I agree with that, though I think that we're still in the position where we're asking "Should we make a community hack?" rather than "What should we include in this hack?".

While I can see that there are a few very supportive members in this thread I would say that only 6-7 actually have said they would like to help/ will eventually join if there are enough people working on it. I would actually like to see how many members have been reading this thread and just not said anything thus far. If anything is to happen it would need the broader support of the community and right now only a handful of people have raised a positive opinion/ outlook on all of this. Even if we had 5 people saying "Yes, I will work on this" and 20 others saying "I will join if other people join" then that would lend some gravitas to actually getting up and doing something about it. We haven't hit the point where there is a sizable chunk of the community is at least thinking about getting involved.
I agree, it's not much of a community hack if only few people are part of it. There are definitely people who are lurking around not really throwing in their opinions.

It's up to you to make a poll then good moderator sir. Something like:

Are you interested in working on a community hack?

1) No, it will undoubtedly fail/ I'm just not interested

2) Yes, I would love to join

3) I will join if we have enough people working and people show interest
  #43    
Old January 23rd, 2013 (04:50 PM). Edited January 23rd, 2013 by machomuu.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFuji View Post
I agree with that, though I think that we're still in the position where we're asking "Should we make a community hack?" rather than "What should we include in this hack?".

While I can see that there are a few very supportive members in this thread I would say that only 6-7 actually have said they would like to help/ will eventually join if there are enough people working on it. I would actually like to see how many members have been reading this thread and just not said anything thus far. If anything is to happen it would need the broader support of the community and right now only a handful of people have raised a positive opinion/ outlook on all of this. Even if we had 5 people saying "Yes, I will work on this" and 20 others saying "I will join if other people join" then that would lend some gravitas to actually getting up and doing something about it. We haven't hit the point where there is a sizable chunk of the community is at least thinking about getting involved.
Well, I think that the lack of support really falls to the fact that this thread is in the ROM Hacking section which, compared to the Progressing Hacks, Hacks Showcase, and Slideshow Showcase, is not visited by that many people (frequently, at least). I mean, back in the day, when the Scrapbox, the Hack Showcase, and the Progressing Hacks were connected to the Rom Hacking section I could see this getting more exposure (since people had more incentive to come to the Rom Hacking parent directory).

In other words, I really think the reason that this isn't getting much exposure is because people don't see it, or if they do see it, they don't feel any need to take a look. It doesn't have the exposure it needs to be noticed.
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Old January 23rd, 2013 (06:27 PM).
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I think a lot of people are gonna be interested, just maybe not the best ones for the job. There should be a quota or something; MewtwoLover39482 shouldn't be let in just because he wants to be.
  #45    
Old January 23rd, 2013 (06:34 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hinkage View Post
I think a lot of people are gonna be interested, just maybe not the best ones for the job. There should be a quota or something; MewtwoLover39482 shouldn't be let in just because he wants to be.
Makes sense, they would at least need some knowledge. What about a simple test for the job they are applying for? Maybe they should have to proove they know mapping by sending in a map, or for scripters, making a script to talk to a person 5 times and on the fith time, he gives a cool item? Just something simple to make sure they know the basics. Not too hard or it won't be a community anymore.
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Old January 23rd, 2013 (06:50 PM).
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Makes sense, they would at least need some knowledge. What about a simple test for the job they are applying for? Maybe they should have to proove they know mapping by sending in a map, or for scripters, making a script to talk to a person 5 times and on the fith time, he gives a cool item? Just something simple to make sure they know the basics. Not too hard or it won't be a community anymore.
That seems like it'd work, but maybe instead of it being something simple and specific, it could be something open-ended; that way we can better gauge the hackers' ability and creativity based on how complex and or creative the map, script, sprite, or the like is and give them a position on the team accordingly.
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  #47    
Old January 23rd, 2013 (08:48 PM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFuji View Post
I agree with that, though I think that we're still in the position where we're asking "Should we make a community hack?" rather than "What should we include in this hack?".
I think you can't answer one question without at least considering the other.

Do we want to remake an official game?
Do we want a completely original story?
Do we want to use an official region?
Do we want to create a new region?
Do we want to add fakemon?
Do we want to have cameos from the series?
Do we want to have a custom pokedex?
Do we want to only use the national dex?
Which game do we want to hack?
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  #48    
Old January 24th, 2013 (05:48 AM).
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I personally might participate for scripting and assembly job if we get a team build for it. This is only if there is a nice storyline and someone who knows what he/she is doing would complete most of the scripting, and the hack would literally turn out something you really want to work on to be finished.

But where to begin with, that is a good question. And who will take role and lead the project?
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  #49    
Old January 25th, 2013 (03:30 AM).
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Originally Posted by hinkage View Post
I think a lot of people are gonna be interested, just maybe not the best ones for the job. There should be a quota or something; MewtwoLover39482 shouldn't be let in just because he wants to be.
If he wants to be in, then he should be allowed in. The only reason anyone should not be allowed in is if they don't know how to do anything (i.e not a hacker). Plus I don't see why anyone would volunteer into doing something they don't know how to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by karatekid552 View Post
Makes sense, they would at least need some knowledge. What about a simple test for the job they are applying for? Maybe they should have to proove they know mapping by sending in a map, or for scripters, making a script to talk to a person 5 times and on the fith time, he gives a cool item? Just something simple to make sure they know the basics. Not too hard or it won't be a community anymore.
That script can be done in so many ways, some more inefficient than others. It doesn't matter anyways. If I want to script and I can only do simple messages to people, I should be allowed to make scripts that are simple messages (whether that be for random village NPCs or Sign posts).

Quote:
Originally Posted by miksy91 View Post
But where to begin with, that is a good question. And who will take role and lead the project?
Well, we can't make a community hack official without the consent of our dear governing force in this forums. The Moderator stated he wanted to gauge interest before starting anything, and I think the best way to do that is a poll. Leader and such can be determined out of the ones who want in later
  #50    
Old January 25th, 2013 (03:49 AM).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FBI agent View Post
If he wants to be in, then he should be allowed in. The only reason anyone should not be allowed in is if they don't know how to do anything (i.e not a hacker). Plus I don't see why anyone would volunteer into doing something they don't know how to do.



That script can be done in so many ways, some more inefficient than others. It doesn't matter anyways. If I want to script and I can only do simple messages to people, I should be allowed to make scripts that are simple messages (whether that be for random village NPCs or Sign posts).



Well, we can't make a community hack official without the consent of our dear governing force in this forums. The Moderator stated he wanted to gauge interest before starting anything, and I think the best way to do that is a poll. Leader and such can be determined out of the ones who want in later

The point of my test was just to make sure they had an understanding of scripting. It doesn't have to be done as efficiant as possible, just a small test to make sure they can do things.

I just wanted to say that on my computer, I have a message box template where I letterally just type what I want the person to say and hit compile. In my opinion, that is just text editing, not really scripting. However, we still need people to type out all those message boxes, where half of them seem to have really no point at allxD.


Last night I had an idea for getting this out there more. You know how there are all of the subcategories of Emulation, such as Rom Hacking, tutorials, etc? Would it be possible to adf a community hack section? We could then link to it like the tutorials are linked to at the top of Rom Hacking.

Just thought I'd throw that out there, I don't know if anyone would go for changing the layout of PC just for one project.
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